Friend of Australian man found dead in Bangkok questions the circumstances around his death

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

18 hours ago, djjamie said:

It is always hard for any family of a young bright life like this to face the reality that he was having sex with a prostitute let alone that he committed suicide.

 

Lets hope the family get the closure they seem to be denying at the moment.

 

 

How do you know he was with a prostitute, he may have been married to the women like you are married to your hi-so Thai civil servant wife or it could have been a long standing gf. Where you there to see that he jumped ?

[Lex Talionis]

The family may be satisfied to let things lie as they are.  If they want more answers they're just going to have to break down and hire a private dick to poke around.  Find out who the girlfriend was & question her.  Inquire after CCTV footage. Try to determine if his cash on hand went missing. Order an autopsy and check out the results. &etc.

 

In my mind the fact that he was found naked makes suicide highly unlikely (and also his age.)  He probably had sex with his girlfriend before the fall.  More than likely went out on the balcony for either a smoke or some fresh air, slipped and fell.  The TGF panicked and booked. 

 

It's a sad case indeed.  I wish the family only the best. 

Edited August 10, 2016 by Lex Talionis
Ce

[ncc1701d]

If only he had a government trackable sim Card...

 

As already mentioned, unless someone actually confesses to wrongdoing (which is not that  impossible if the police know how to interview), then nothing more will come of it.

[Rorri]

5 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

This is interesting. If this is verified to be the reporting practice then it does provide a very real incentive to call everything a suicide. 

 

Although it still would not explain why tourists would be shoved from balconies as some on TVF like to think. I just don't buy into suggestions that 40-kilo Thai women are secretly killing farangs.

 

Regardless, Thailand does not need Australian visitors any longer--they are now attracting very high quality Arab & Chinese. 

 

Never ceases to amaze me how some of you think. It doesn't matter what the other persons body weight is, if the deceased person is leaning on the balcony,  a quick shove, from anyone will send them over the edge.

[chicowoodduck]

He was pushed...just like all the rest of the poor souls who made the same leap of faith...RIP...??

[lvr181]

6 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

This is interesting. If this is verified to be the reporting practice then it does provide a very real incentive to call everything a suicide. 

 

Although it still would not explain why tourists would be shoved from balconies as some on TVF like to think. I just don't buy into suggestions that 40-kilo Thai women are secretly killing farangs.

 

Regardless, Thailand does not need Australian visitors any longer--they are now attracting very high quality Arab & Chinese. 

 

 

"Regardless, Thailand does not need Australian visitors any longer--they are now attracting very high quality Arab & Chinese. "

 

Man, you got a great sense of humour! I love it. 

[Montecristo]

If forensic evidence doesnt show faul play (no injuries other then those from the fall), and no evidence of a fight (on his body nor in the room), what would you conclude? Either suicide or accident. 

Since he was young and probably happy to be in Thai, then probably an accident. Pitty that RTP is slow, but what else they could have done? I doubt the lady friend (maybe a prostitute) would kill a young 25 year old man. If she did, there would be a forensics evidence, unless she is a pro killer and not some "working-girl" and he was a target for some reason (to me, that is very unlikely). I feel sorry for this guy, and his family ....

 

I would agree with guys who are saying here: an accident. Balconies are not a safe place on buildings in Thailand. Especially if he was under the influence, he might have fallen over the fence. 

[elgordo38]

19 hours ago, Chapelroad said:

Lots of unanswered questions, but I would not be hopeful that they will all be answered, over here.

Yes your right but the path of least resistance is still suicide case closed. 

[ClutchClark]

7 minutes ago, Rorri said:

Never ceases to amaze me how some of you think. It doesn't matter what the other persons body weight is, if the deceased person is leaning on the balcony,  a quick shove, from anyone will send them over the edge.

 

I weigh about 100-kilos and I respectfully disagree with you.

 

If there is a railing and if that railing does not fail then it is not a matter of simply "shoving"...it requires an upward force to get the center of gravity "over" the railing.

 

Although I am not amazed by anything at this stage of my life, I am often surprised how few people actually understand even the basics of physics. 

 

 

 

[Stevemercer]

Another 'do not' when visiting Thailand is not to take ya ba thinking it is a local variant of ice. It is not. It can make you feel like superman, paranoid that everyone is out to get you or both at the same time.

[farcanell]

18 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

I am with you to the last part on suspicious balcony falls.

 

Heck, have you ever seen these balcony railing constructions? They are utter crap. The cap rails are loose, they are not anchored strongly to the wall, the balconies themselves are often uneven platforms.

 

its like walking steps here and assuming the risers are equally spaced. Bad idea.

 

Simple rule: Do not go on balconies if you are not at 100%.

 

i am old and my balance is not great. I do not go out on my hotel balcony unless I stand back near the wall.

 

and it is daytime. 

 

Your hotel balcony?

 

perhaps if it's yours, it may be wise to retrofit new handrails and make it safe to use... You could even install a floor to ceiling wrought iron panel, which could also double as a trellis for ivy to grow through, beautifying the space and returning it to a usable area

 

Another upside, it may perhaps make it safer for the next owner.... Or better.... Start a trend and post the finished project for others to copy

 

but of course, if it's not yours (hotels), then this may be unfeasible.... Although management may be prepared to part pay, if you are a long term tenant.... And even go a step further, and fix other balconies on their premise.

 

who knows, right... But with high fall incidents here, and all the speculation about balcony height issues, now is the time to strike

 

just saying

[farcanell]

1 hour ago, sahibji said:

for a person to commit suicide without clothes on sounds a bit odd. what is even more mysterious is that the woman who checked with the deceased  left just like that. hope she is traced so that light can be shed on this mystery,sad as it is.

 

 

"For a person to commit suicide without cloths on sounds a bit odd".... ???

 

really? Perhaps... Perhaps not... TIT

 

what is  odd, in my book, is to commit suicide by kneeling down and placing your head in a bucket of water, with a golf bag balanced atop your shoulders.

[raphoedon]

Gravity in Thailand can, and too often does, result in fatalities. 

R.I.P. you man.

[dontoearth]

5 hours ago, meatboy said:

so his GF has not come forward,if she checked in the hotel with him,the hotel staff must have checked her ID card.

 

Decades ago when I was younger, hotels kept the ID card of any 'visitors' to a room in a little box at the desk when your visitor left your room and went for the card they called you in the room to see if you were in the room rather than lying on the street below.  Now I guess that procedure has fallen by the wayside.

[moe666]

19 hours ago, chainarong said:

Another Expat has come to grief , there has been so many lately that you need a calculator to keep track , the RTP are so sloppy in their handy work,  that as we know,  it will be a miracle if anything is even done let alone found , tour agents in the west should either advise or supply  a special booklet or apps to young single men ,  especially first timers to Thailand ,  pointing out the dangers and the problems that you can face in the land of Smiles.

the few who have a untimely ending does not compare to the thousands who come for holiday have a  good time and leave happy, healthy, and a smile on their face. I would say less than 1 percent have a unhappy ending on their holiday. But the naysayers will continue with their negative assetment of Thailand

[farcanell]

40 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

I weigh about 100-kilos and I respectfully disagree with you.

 

If there is a railing and if that railing does not fail then it is not a matter of simply "shoving"...it requires an upward force to get the center of gravity "over" the railing.

 

Although I am not amazed by anything at this stage of my life, I am often surprised how few people actually understand even the basics of physics. 

 

 

 

 

 

Basic physics?

 

Not really.... A mans center of gravity is heighter than a woman's.... A young fit man, would usually be top (shoulder/chest ) heavy, and a well timed shove, especially from an over balanced position, would easily get the job done.... Even with a "normal" balcony height

 

if the guy is leaning over the balcony, guts resting on the rail, (maybe having a ciggie, enjoying the view, sights, sounds) ....simply grabbing the mans ankles and lifting, will get the job done.... I think you could call that a fulcrum point push.... Physics?

 

now a dead lift to toss a body.... Maybe a little harder, especially without leaving obvious marks on the body and balcony.... That would take planning, but using basic physics... Possible

 

 

[Squeegee]

5 hours ago, Artisi said:

Did he, you are sure because you are privy to something nobody else is aware of? 

 

He is indeed privy to something nobody else is aware of:

 

 

6 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

50,000 Baht?

 

Was he carrying that kind of money around? 

 

Does anyone carry that kind of cash around? 

 

That is twice what I will spend here in a month.

 

What he is privy to is a distinctly blinkered view of the world whereby everyone surely must do everything the same as he, and even with no circumstantial or situational deviation. Clearly if it's not something ClutchClark does himself, it's not something anyone else would possibly do, and thus "he fell."

 

Edited August 10, 2016 by Squeegee

[ClutchClark]

3 minutes ago, Squeegee said:

 

He is indeed privy to something nobody else is aware of:

 

 

 

What he is privy to is a distinctly blinkered view of the world whereby everyone surely must do everything the same as he, and even with no circumstantial or situational deviation. Clearly if it's not something ClutchClark does himself, it's not something anyone else would possibly do, and thus "he fell."

 

 

Well I do agree with you that the World would be a much better place if people acted more like me...and, yes, I am of the opinion this young man fell and did not commit suicide.

 

However,  I do not think that this thread about a young man's unfortunate death is where you should be flaunting your own personal insecurities.

[essander]

It brings back some bad memories to read this story. Here is what happened.

 

After a long night out, you come back to your hotel room with your girlfriend or whoever. Drunk, maybe some drugs involved, but feeling on top of the world. After a nice hour or so in bed, you just need that last sigarette before you go to sleep. Naked, feeling free, and still on top of the world, you go out on the balcony. Your eyes start to slip, but you just need to finish off that sigarette. Suddenly, you find yourself off balance, falling forward, your hip hits the rail, your arms shoot down to grab the rail, not realizing that your arms are already outside the rail, creating a pivoting motion that throws you over...and you are statistics.

 

I can play this incident in slow motion in my head over and over again, after this exact thing happened to me a few years back, except for the statistics part (and drugs). I am only 172 cm, but were very close to pivot over the rail. I am sure if I had been 5-10 cm taller, I would not have had a chance.

 

I do not say that something like this happened here, but I know now how easy a lethal accident like this can happen under the right circumstances. Be careful out there!  

[ClutchClark]

11 minutes ago, farcanell said:

 

 

Basic physics?

 

Not really.... A mans center of gravity is heighter than a woman's.... A young fit man, would usually be top (shoulder/chest ) heavy, and a well timed shove, especially from an over balanced position, would easily get the job done.... Even with a "normal" balcony height

 

if the guy is leaning over the balcony, guts resting on the rail, (maybe having a ciggie, enjoying the view, sights, sounds) ....simply grabbing the mans ankles and lifting, will get the job done.... I think you could call that a fulcrum point push.... Physics?

 

now a dead lift to toss a body.... Maybe a little harder, especially without leaving obvious marks on the body and balcony.... That would take planning, but using basic physics... Possible

 

 

 

Oh boy, yep, you have it figured out. The mystery woman grabbed the young mans ankles and flipped him over the railing. 

 

Each of your scenarios fails to take into consideration one thing--that the man was physically fit and would have pushed back against any force applied and the fact this Aussie boy probably outweighed the mystery Thai lady by about 20-30 kilo would have given him the edge.

 

You have seen too many episodes of CSI:Miami and are confusing yourself for David Caruso.

[Chicog]

50 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

Decades ago when I was younger, hotels kept the ID card of any 'visitors' to a room in a little box at the desk when your visitor left your room and went for the card they called you in the room to see if you were in the room rather than lying on the street below.  Now I guess that procedure has fallen by the wayside.

 

It depends on the night staff being awake, much as the CCTV depends on it actually being plugged into a power socket.

 

 

[OMGImInPattaya]

21 hours ago, Chapelroad said:

Lots of unanswered questions, but I would not be hopeful that they will all be answered, over here.

The main one being...WHICH HOTEL?

[off road pat]

8 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

This is interesting. If this is verified to be the reporting practice then it does provide a very real incentive to call everything a suicide. 

 

Although it still would not explain why tourists would be shoved from balconies as some on TVF like to think. I just don't buy into suggestions that 40-kilo Thai women are secretly killing farangs.

 

Regardless, Thailand does not need Australian visitors any longer--they are now attracting very high quality Arab & Chinese. 

 

Don't underestimate the 40 Kilo Thai woman !!!!

[mki8]

7 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

50,000 Baht?

 

Was he carrying that kind of money around? 

 

Does anyone carry that kind of cash around? 

 

That is twice what I will spend here in a month.

Not everyone here is is cheap charlie

 

50k is nothing to many

And certainly nothing if you ha arrived on holiday, probably not in safe

[balo]

53 minutes ago, essander said:

After a nice hour or so in bed, you just need that last sigarette before you go to sleep. Naked, feeling free, and still on top of the world, you go out on the balcony. Your eyes start to slip, but you just need to finish off that sigarette. Suddenly, you find yourself off balance, falling forward, your hip hits the rail, your arms shoot down to grab the rail, not realizing that your arms are already outside the rail, creating a pivoting motion that throws you over...and you are statistics.

 

I can play this incident in slow motion in my head over and over again, after this exact thing happened to me a few years back, except for the statistics part (and drugs). I am only 172 cm, but were very close to pivot over the rail. I am sure if I had been 5-10 cm taller, I would not have had a chance.

 

Exactly , instead always thinking about "just another suicide" in Thailand, accidents do happen all the time . Alcohol and drugs , you are young and think nothing will hurt you.

They should start building condos without balconies, it's a lot harder to accidently slip over the window. 

[farcanell]

44 minutes ago, ClutchClark said:

 

Oh boy, yep, you have it figured out. The mystery woman grabbed the young mans ankles and flipped him over the railing. 

 

Each of your scenarios fails to take into consideration one thing--that the man was physically fit and would have pushed back against any force applied and the fact this Aussie boy probably outweighed the mystery Thai lady by about 20-30 kilo would have given him the edge.

 

You have seen too many episodes of CSI:Miami and are confusing yourself for David Caruso.

 

Off your Meds?

 

each of my scenarios suggest more of a "blitze" attack.... You know... Where there is little, if any time, to react.

 

and as fear is a major inhibitor to reaction time (include, or don't... Up to you... any other Imbided substances that slow down a persons reaction time, like alcohol) a falling mans reaction time is lessened

 

and.... As for weight difference.... Let's go back to your despair about people's lack of knowledge about basic physics... Weight can work in both directions... Goliath apparently outweighed David... Yet David was victorious (don't take that last bit seriously)

 

To use the weight argument, as you seem determined to do, you must know how the weights and forces were prepositioned and used... Basic physics really.... Really basic physics.

 

consider.... A 100 kg man, with 40kg of his weight leaning over an edge, only requires an extra 10 kg to reach his pivot point... Add another few kg of force... Buy buy birdie

 

in the right position, I guarantee that I could get someone over a balcony, even if he weighted twice my weight

 

And of course.... Some good CSI work would provide a lot of answers... Which seems unlikely in Thailand.

 

But.... and for the record, I have an extreme dislike for David Caruso.... Although the origional CSI show was entertaining....  and only an idiot would suggest that these shows do not provide ideas on how to commit crimes.... Perhaps not blueprints, but definitely ideas

 

oh.... And for a first hand account... Read post 79 by essander.... He nearly did the death dive unassisted... No David Caruso insights needed.... Or armchair CSI stuff, if you prefer the term, just a simple and believable account of what happened to him

 

 

[Thaidream]

Westerners falling from hotel balconies or Condos does appear a common occurrence in Thailand.  I doubt that this young man was a suicide. If I had to guess, an accident is more of a logial conclusion.  Like one of the posters stated, he could have been drinking or not; went out to get fresh air or see the sights and lost his balance.  The balconies on hotels and condos are dangerous places-they are small and the railings are low. The construction is normally poor. This would leave me to believe in the majority of cases that an accident is the logical conclusion. Of course, if that is correct- there are all kinds of liability issues against the hotel and/or the builder. In the West, these types of cases would be investigated and possibly litigated in a court because peole would seek damages.

I would be interested to know how many  non Westerners and Thais  fall from balconies  each year in Thailand. 

Edited August 10, 2016 by Thaidream

[dunroaming]

All the usual assumptions but once again TIT, the country of smoke and mirrors and the truth is unlikely to ever surface.  We hear of Thai's killing each other everyday usually over money or sex or losing face yet foreigners always seem to fall into the suicide category.  Nobody really knows unless of course they were in the room at the time 

[farcanell]

37 minutes ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

The main one being...WHICH HOTEL?

 

Pas reported by the Australian news networks, which admit to it being unconfirmed, it's likely it was this hotel

[farcanell]

46 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

All the usual assumptions but once again TIT, the country of smoke and mirrors and the truth is unlikely to ever surface.  We hear of Thai's killing each other everyday usually over money or sex or losing face yet foreigners always seem to fall into the suicide category.  Nobody really knows unless of course they were in the room at the time 

 

Ergo....all the usual assumptions... Often unfair, exaggerated and over the top.

 

this will not change until the smoke and mirror are gone, leaving transparency.

 

oh... Sorry