Legitimizing father 4 month old baby

[Kenny202]

I see this has been done to death on the pinned topic but the results appear to be inconclusive, a lot owing no doubt to different views in different areas.

I'm hoping someone may have first hand experience at what we are trying to do...

 

Our child is 4 months old. Myself and his mum live together but aren't legally married, nor will be. I am registered on the birth certificate as his dad and

he is an Australian citizen by decent and I am legally registered as his dad in Australia. I am aware this gives me no legal rights as his father in Thailand.

 

We want to legitimise me as the father of our boy. We called the Amphur but as usual they have no clue and can already tell from their attitude as usual they

will make things as difficult as they possibly can. In any case it appears to legitimise a child at the Amphur the child needs to be of an age at least able to talk

and consent to the arrangement. His registered Amphur is 3 hours away from where we now live and I can see another 3 x 6 hour round trips coming, same

as when we had him registered there after birth. 

 

What appears to be the best course of action for us is to legitimise the child at the family court. My GF consents to me being registered as the father so is it a simple

matter of us going to the court and filling out the forms ourselves?

I hear people quoting 10-30k legal fees to get a lawyer to do it and others saying it is a simple to do the application yourself, pay the 350 baht and waiti a month or 2.

 

Can anyone give me a clear answer or have experience, specifically in KK family court if possible?

 

I assume this can be done at any family court or does it have to be done in his home province? 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2016 by Kenny202

[MikeyIdea]

There is no fixed age rule for legitimizing a child at Amphur but the general accepted one is 7 years old. The law says that ALL including the child must agree and the confusion comes from that the law doesn't specify how old a child must be to be allowed to do that. I (and my daughters mother  of course) got my daughter legitimized at the amphur in Loei when she was 2+ but I have never heard of any other who has. It was convenient but wrong...

 

"We called the Amphur but as usual they have no clue and can already tell from their attitude as usual they will make things as difficult as they possibly can"

 

Amphur supervisors know very well what the rules and "the age" is, approximately anyway This is a common task that happens quite often. I don't think they would make things as difficult as they possibly can, it's probably just that the child is not of age yet, that's all

 

Your only choice is to legitimize in Juvenile court. You do not need to bring a lawyer to court at all actually (but they may very well frown on you if you don't so better not tell them in advance). The court officer can give the mother copy of the forms used and you fill them in somewhere else and the mother just hand them in at a later date. The mother can also find the necessary paperwork on the internet and print out.  

 

Let the mother do the talking in court (and let her say that you are short of money) and it should not be a problem at all. I and a Thai friend used to sit and read Thai forums several years back and we saw posts from a number of Thai couples who legitimized their children in court without lawyer. I have never heard of a Westerner who did it but nationality of the father shouldn't matter

 

I have no experience specifically from KK

Edited August 10, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[MikeyIdea]

I forgot. Don't be too sure that you have custody of your child in Australia 

 

My daughter is a dual Thai Swedish citizen and she has even been living for a while in Sweden with me, without the mother, but school authorities there saw in the computer records that the mother had sole custody and demanded her signature...

 

I had not bothered to request an appointment with the city "family advisor" and hadn't filled in the form to request shared custody so I never got it. Reason...: Because I didn't like what was written on the family advisor webpage - "Here you can talk about your family problems in complete secrecy". 

 

I can imagine the questions...  Why isn't the mother with you? Because I didn't want to pay her airplane ticket... Where is the mother? I don't know, drunk probably... How are you going to arrange so that the mother gets time with her child? zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

It's only a formality but you probably have to initiate custody manually. It is the same in most countries in Europe if you are not married

[Kenny202]

1 hour ago, MikeyIdea said:

There is no fixed age rule for legitimizing a child at Amphur but the general accepted one is 7 years old. The law says that ALL including the child must agree and the confusion comes from that the law doesn't specify how old a child must be to be allowed to do that. I (and my daughters mother  of course) got my daughter legitimized at the amphur in Loei when she was 2+ but I have never heard of any other who has. It was convenient but wrong...

 

"We called the Amphur but as usual they have no clue and can already tell from their attitude as usual they will make things as difficult as they possibly can"

 

Amphur supervisors know very well what the rules and "the age" is, approximately anyway This is a common task that happens quite often. I don't think they would make things as difficult as they possibly can, it's probably just that the child is not of age yet, that's all

 

Your only choice is to legitimize in Juvenile court. You do not need to bring a lawyer to court at all actually (but they may very well frown on you if you don't so better not tell them in advance). The court officer can give the mother copy of the forms used and you fill them in somewhere else and the mother just hand them in at a later date. The mother can also find the necessary paperwork on the internet and print out.  

 

Let the mother do the talking in court (and let her say that you are short of money) and it should not be a problem at all. I and a Thai friend used to sit and read Thai forums several years back and we saw posts from a number of Thai couples who legitimized their children in court without lawyer. I have never heard of a Westerner who did it but nationality of the father shouldn't matter

 

I have no experience specifically from KK

Thanks for your detailed reply mate. No, you don't know this Amphur. The guy told my missus on the phone he had no idea of the process and said we'd be better organising it in the province we live. They are horrible and ignorant. They have no dealings with farang's (I don't imagine too many Thais would be falling over themselves to legitimise children) and instead of making an effort to find out anything they are ignorant of, they do everything to hide their ignorance and fob you off. They are even more horrible to the local people. We're always super polite and respectful to no avail. They made us do a 6 hour round trip when we drove to register my son in her TB. She forgot an inconsequential hospital form. We begged them to at least sight the important paperwork, let us pay the fee...start the ball rolling and could we post the final piece of paper to them? My missus explained we lived three hours away, it was the middle of summer 42 degrees and was stressful for our newborn to travel like this. The woman simply told my missus "not her problem" and walked away and started shuffling papers.  I can feel my muscles tense up as I recall the look on her face. 

 

Anyhoooo...besides the point.

 

As far as appearing in court....I've read several accounts of people going to the court administration and simply filling out the application, pay the money and wait for approval? No mention of actual court appearances?

[Kenny202]

Went to the family court this morning. Massive fail. Wont have a bar of us making the application ourselves, they directed us to their in house lawyer. Totally non helpful. "Why not marry easy?". To even start the ball rolling with an application 10k THB DNA test required because child under 7 years and 11k THB for his services. Then "up to court". 

 

Anything you try and do government or legal wise in LOS appears to be "up to person" you are dealing with and how easy or difficult they want to make your life.  

[MikeyIdea]

As always, the lower the education the more likely people are to close their eyes until the problem is knocking on the door but that changes with education also in Thailand  I have several unmarried Thai friends at work who have legitimised their kids. It is not a Farang thing at all. That's why I say that the Amphur supervisor surely knows how to do it, it is a process they probably do every week

 

It's important to be at the amphur early, 8:15 is perfect in Bangkok, probably a bit earlier up-country. It's important to not just take a number and sit down and wait but to actually tell "information" what you plan to do and ask for the supervisor. I do this most of the time and they give me the supervisors' counter number and I get to talk to someone who actually knows the first time

 

I have legitimised, done yellow tabien baan, moved chao baan to my name, then my daughters mother pawned the family car so I kicked her out of my tabien baan..., permanent residency and blue tabien baan, pink Thai ID card, shared custody print outs, legitimisation updated in Amphurs computer, additional birth certificate, childs permission to leave Thailand, names and addresses of people to use in court several times (can only get hand written as no Lawyers ID card) and more. I have never had a bad response at amphur, the worst thing I have had is "not allowed" which I accept or an embarrased "I don't know how to do this so can I find out and call you when I know"

 

Amphur officers are generally afraid of making mistakes (that's why the supervisor is a better choice) and we must therefore accept that we should not get what we want if we don't have the complete paperwork

 

I can easily believe that a normal lowly amphur officer wouldn't know if legitimisation can be done when father is a foreigner and therefore "becomes difficult" but the supervisor nearly always have a law degree and knows that it doesn't matter

 

Court appearance or not: Yes, it can be done totally without court appearance but I have also heard of cases where court officers said "that's only for poor people" and refuse to do it. That's why I suggest to perhaps just get the papers, fill them in somewhere else and hand them in, perhaps do everything without you present. The court officer should hardly deny if all signatures are there and papers are in order. 

 

I don't know if she will require DNA test evidence, the law doesn't specify anything about DNA evidence required, a court is a court and the judges have authority to decide if DNA test is necessary or not and I really doubt they would require it if the mother confirms that you are the father and gives her consent and documentation is complete of course. I stopped getting involved in custody issues and go to Juvenile court 3 years ago though

 

Let the mother search on the internet, "รับรองบุตร" DNA (rappraangbott = legitimise child) in Google is a good start. There are Thai websites that give free legal advice too. Let the mother post and start with not mentioning that the father is farang at all

 

By the way: Certified translation of your passport is most likely required. If you can, get a yellow tabien baan. Many TV users argue that it is useless, a driving license works just as well but I don't agree. A court officer is surely afraid of accepting incomplete documentation, a tabien baan is a familiar document that Thai's are comfortable with

 

Good Luck

[Preacher]

You have to deal with the amphur or family court where the child is registered in the household book. Sometimes it is easier to just have the child registered with a family member living in a more favorable area.

[offset]

I had have been thought this procedure but used a Lawyer cost me 10000 baht money well spent he did all the paperwork. My child's mother was in agreement with me being the Father and it had to be done in the Province that the child was in the Blue Book

 

In my case I had to have an interview with the Children's Welfare then go to the Children's Court a month later to be interviewed there by a judge but I needed to have an interpreter but when he arrived at the court he got worried that he would not be able to understand the court language but I was lucky that the judge accepted the Welfares interview as ok and signed off the paperwork. There was then a 30 day wait for his mother to change her mind before I got the paperwork

[MikeyIdea]

When I read through this thread again, I see one thing to add

 

The  "that's only for poor people" and refuse to do it applies to both Thai's and Westerners, this is not only a Western thing at all

 

Best chance of success should be the mother go there alone or with lawyer - with form filled in, with all signatures and all paper work complete

 

Still quite likely that it will be denied

Edited August 15, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[lungnorm]

Why bother, you will be drained financially if you do and if you don't.

[MikeyIdea]

26 minutes ago, lungnorm said:

Why bother, you will be drained financially if you do and if you don't.

 

Hmmmm

 

The OP thinks that to guarantee rights to his child is more important than 300 dollars.

 

And again: As always, the lower the education the more likely people are to close their eyes until the problem is knocking on the door but that changes with education also in Thailand   

 

Jokingly, not meant in a bad way. People have the right to have different priorities in life

[Hans Rayong]

I've done it twice in 2010 and 2013.

Fix a lawyer, then meeting with social services. In Rayong, it was next to the court and in Chonburi was in Juvenile Prison. When they have completed their investigation the Juvenile Court will call you and the mother.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Hans Rayong