Beach bans on the burkini in France sparks widespread debate

[webfact]

Beach bans on the burkini in France sparks widespread debate 

 

 

CANNES: -- You might think at first sight that the bikini does not respect correctness and morality as stated in a bylaw in the popular Mediterranean resort of Cannes.

 

But that is not the case in France this summer and the burkini debate illustrates how the country has found itself in a state of confusion over the summer swim wear.

 

As a secular country France keeps religious symbols out of public life. The city of Cannes took the stance to ban the burkini citing security reasons. It is also specified – though a burkini is never named – that beachwear respecting secularism is compulsory as the Mayor of another town pointed out when justifying the ban.

 

“I want us to stop becoming conspicuous and getting into a kind of apartheid by dressing differently. This is France, it is the French Republic, where everyone is equal regardless of race or religion,” opined Lionel Luca Mayor of Villeneuve-Loubet.

 

So what is this ‘community of France’? Is there a uniform to be worn in public places? There is no legal framework for such bans on this beachwear which was created in 2003 by a Lebanese designer in Australia for Muslims to respect their beliefs.

 

“The only outfit that is prohibited is the burka that conceals the face. That is not the case here. Today girls who swim in a burkina are hiding the same parts of their body as those who wear a hijab. So Muslim women are being stigmatized and excluded from the beaches and swimming areas,” pointed out Feiza Ben Mohamed from the Muslim Association of France.

 

The bans have caused incomprehension and concern. One young girl summed up the confusion over the action.

 

“It’s ridiculous, because I see people on the beach who are totally naked. I can’t see why we can’t dress,” she said.

 

It is a very French debate which to foreigners can surprise or amuse. What for instance is the difference between a burkina and wetsuits or those who cover up to protect themselves from the sun. For one it is even dangerous.

 

“It raises hatred and has created a war within the population and that is abominable. It means in France we make a distinction between who is a Salafist and who is not,” explained Herve Lavisse from the League of Human Rights.

 

France remains on edge after the recent terror attacks in Nice and the north of the country. Authorities have struggled to provide adequate answers to how some of their citizens were radicalised.

 

In Corsica a brawl broke out where women were bathing in burkinis. It is unclear what sparked the fighting but reports suggested a man argued with a tourist after accusing him of photographing the women. Five were injured.

 

Is outlawing the swim wear likely to avoid tension which the mayors who have prohibited the burkini argue or add to the stigmatization of Muslims? But perhaps the real question for many is will it serve in the interests of the fight against terrorism?

 

 

-- © Copyright Euronews 2016-08-17

[NongKhaiKid]

How can a '  good  ' Muslim find herself in close proximity to scantily clad non-believers or is this an attempt at integration  ?

I'll bet the male members of her family don't mind a bit of ogling then go to the mosque etc and denounce it.

[Chapelroad]

If you don't like it, go somewhere else, simple, isn't it ?

[happy Joe]

I think these bans are a huge mistake of France.

 

The freedom ends where someone else's begins.

 

 Women in burkini commit no offense or embarrassment to others. Accordingly, these decrees are pure ostracism that will fuel hatred.

Edited August 16, 2016 by happy Joe

[canuckamuck]

Good for France for pushing back and trying to preserve their culture of freedom. The Burka is a form of oppression and should be resisted at every turn by freedom loving people

[simple1]

38 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

Good for France for pushing back and trying to preserve their culture of freedom. The Burka is a form of oppression and should be resisted at every turn by freedom loving people

 

The Burkini is not a Burka as wearers show their full face and shows, to a degree, the female form. Personally I find it contradictory to ban the Burkini on some French beaches, at the same encouraging integration of the Muslim community into French society; IMO a backward step in community relations.

[ClutchClark]

I have read there have been a few brawls and most recently cars have been torched. It appears the Muslim men get quite aggressive when people take photos of their wives in burkini.

 

 

[phuket69]

1 hour ago, happy Joe said:

I think these bans are a huge mistake of France.

 

The freedom ends where someone else's begins.

 

 Women in burkini commit no offense or embarrassment to others. Accordingly, these decrees are pure ostracism that will fuel hatred.

Hello,

If u go to temple, women have to hide their body, wherever they r from, aren t they?

If you don t like this rule in Thailand, you stay home or leave the country.

So as long as you are not French and don t know anything about what is happening for years, Accept rules of my country like u do in Thailand.

Fyi it s banned only in few beaches, not whole country. Journalists...

Regards,

P.

 

[koolkarl]

Good for France. Why should the western world change their culture for a race who

doesn't integrate and hell bent on wiping out non believers of Islam as written in the koran.

If muslims don't like it , they can move to a muslim country.

[baboon]

2 hours ago, happy Joe said:

I think these bans are a huge mistake of France.

 

The freedom ends where someone else's begins.

 

 Women in burkini commit no offense or embarrassment to others. Accordingly, these decrees are pure ostracism that will fuel hatred.

I'm afraid we have reached a level where I think the average (wo)man on the street would reply 'Good!' to your post. People out there are livid with the direction their societies are taking...

[Zendo]

France is in war against integrists, intelligent french muslims show respect for french culture, stupid and manipulated ones just split on the country that feed them and protect them.

If you want to stay here, show respect, women should be free, not enslaved !! please make the belly dance obligatory for all muslims womens from now !

[KKr]

When seeing some of the people wearing a bikini, I wish they would wear a Burkini and not spoil the view of the beach.

[happy Joe]

1 hour ago, baboon said:

I'm afraid we have reached a level where I think the average (wo)man on the street would reply 'Good!' to your post. People out there are livid with the direction their societies are taking...

 

This is what frightens me. The French are overwhelmingly in favor of these prohibited. The reason is simple: We must not display his religious preferences in public space.

 

But is it freedom or even secularism ?

 

Our society must be relentless towards those who enjoy our freedoms to engage in violent and criminal acts.

 

Ruthless, let's be clear.

 

However people who choose a particular dress fashion is in my humble opinion free of their choice. They disturb no one, just like on Thailand beaches living together  the Western suit and more covered local.

 

It is rather amusing to watch these different uses.

 

So where is the problem ?

[Caps]

55 minutes ago, happy Joe said:

 

This is what frightens me. The French are overwhelmingly in favor of these prohibited. The reason is simple: We must not display his religious preferences in public space.

 

But is it freedom or even secularism ?

 

Our society must be relentless towards those who enjoy our freedoms to engage in violent and criminal acts.

 

Ruthless, let's be clear.

 

However people who choose a particular dress fashion is in my humble opinion free of their choice. They disturb no one, just like on Thailand beaches living together  the Western suit and more covered local.

 

It is rather amusing to watch these different uses.

 

So where is the problem ?

But is it free of their choice?  Possibly in some cases but I hazard a guess its a do as I say and this is how you dress in most cases.   

 

Edited August 17, 2016 by Caps

[Grouse]

This is one of the reasons I am so anti Muslim (I think it's number 37 on my list just in front of auto capitalisation of muslim)

 

I don't want to know what your religion is. Don't wave your burke or beard in my face

 

France is a SECULAR state like all others should be. Fit in with local mores and customs.

 

Keep your perverted fancy dress outfits in your own home. I DONT want to be exposed to your daft ideas.

[greenchair]

2 hours ago, happy Joe said:

 

This is what frightens me. The French are overwhelmingly in favor of these prohibited. The reason is simple: We must not display his religious preferences in public space.

 

But is it freedom or even secularism ?

 

Our society must be relentless towards those who enjoy our freedoms to engage in violent and criminal acts.

 

Ruthless, let's be clear.

 

However people who choose a particular dress fashion is in my humble opinion free of their choice. They disturb no one, just like on Thailand beaches living together  the Western suit and more covered local.

 

It is rather amusing to watch these different uses.

 

So where is the problem ?

So  going to a beach in Iran in a bikini and no headscarf would be fine then. Oops, don't most Muslim countries have laws about this.

What about going to a mosque without a headscarf, and a modest short sleeved shirt. 

Oh dear, laws about that too. 

Maybe I'll go down to the temple bare foot ,in a pair of shorts. 

No, no there's another law. Lol. 

Kudos to France. 

There are many beautiful beaches in their own countries, they can go back there if they want. 

Oh shame shame, no benefits. 

[uptoyoumyfriend]

the one thing to remember is that islam is a man's world.the rules are made by men only. have compassion.

these women want to have fun in the sun like anybody else but their men won't let them ,so they came up with the burkini. better they go swimming  and mingle than not.thais also like jeans and t shirts for swimming for modesty.any problem with that?

[Kinnock]

3 hours ago, uptoyoumyfriend said:

the one thing to remember is that islam is a man's world.the rules are made by men only. have compassion.

these women want to have fun in the sun like anybody else but their men won't let them ,so they came up with the burkini. better they go swimming  and mingle than not.thais also like jeans and t shirts for swimming for modesty.any problem with that?

 

But Thais do not wear T-shirts to go swimming because they are told to by old men employing Bronze-age rules.

[Zendo]

Burkini has nothing to do with islam, it's all about provocation now, pushed by extemists groups !

 

It will end up badly, soon we'll see people wearing these old fashioned costumes on the supermaket, street and beaches in France.. like old time !

 

 

[sweatalot]

The should stick to the saying 

"If in Rome do as the Roans do"

 

If they don't want don't go there

[greenchair]

8 minutes ago, Kinnock said:

 

But Thais do not wear T-shirts to go swimming because they are told to by old men employing Bronze-age rules.

Well actually over the years, I have seen a few Thais arrested for immodesty, when wearing even more than a bikini. 

The culture police are very strict. They don't actually have a choice. I have never seen a Thai wearing jeans and a tshirt to go swimming in a foreign country. Generally, they like to relax and blend with the crowd. 

[farcanell]

6 hours ago, koolkarl said:

Good for France. Why should the western world change their culture for a race who

doesn't integrate and hell bent on wiping out non believers of Islam as written in the koran.

If muslims don't like it , they can move to a muslim country.

 

I really can't fathom how wearing a burkini can be called a cultural change.... Unless, of course, you mean it gives Muslim women more freedom (therein being the change)

 

This is (arguably) a step forward in rights for Muslim women

 

apparently this item was designed by an Australian... Good one...

 

research skin cancer, which is a huge problem down under.... Which sees more and more people covering up to prevent getting said cancer.... Which doesn't discriminate against religion

 

And......old granny sits with the kids on the beach, covered from head to toe... Should she be criticized too?

 

NOTE.... I am 100% opposed to the covering of the face (not on religious grounds), but these bathing suits don't do this, and I reckon that Muslim women should be allowed to wear whatever they need to wear, to enjoy the beach/ ocean.... Shame on those who would deny them that small joy.

 

and anyway.... If you hate Muslims women, they are easily enough identified off the beach as well, so why discriminate in where they can be identified.

 

hate terrorists.... Not Muslims.

 

[Zendo]

2 minutes ago, farcanell said:

hate terrorists.... Not Muslims.

 

 

Right ! But French have fight against catholics priest and rules .. they don't need more stupid religion to  be bother with anymore, stop the provocation.

 

Every women is able to wear burkini, or burka in their own houses, in their bathroom if it makes them feel good ! Or go to any arabian beach dressed with such a comfortable suit !

 

Try to go there wearing a bikini and a cross around your neck.. you'll see the result !

[thaihome]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

This is one of the reasons I am so anti Muslim (I think it's number 37 on my list just in front of auto capitalisation of muslim)

 

I don't want to know what your religion is. Don't wave your burke or beard in my face

 

France is a SECULAR state like all others should be. Fit in with local mores and customs.

 

Keep your perverted fancy dress outfits in your own home. I DONT want to be exposed to your daft ideas.

 

So are nuns prohibited from wearing traditional habits in public.  How about Jews wearing a Yarmulke, or Sikh wearing a turban?

TH 

 

[Zendo]

you can think what you want.. but problems will come soon, and yes poor muslims will have much problem if they don't clean their own community very soon !

[KKr]

48 minutes ago, Zendo said:

 

Right ! But French have fight against catholics priest and rules .. they don't need more stupid religion to  be bother with anymore, stop the provocation.

 

Every women is able to wear burkini, or burka in their own houses, in their bathroom if it makes them feel good ! Or go to any arabian beach dressed with such a comfortable suit !

 

Try to go there wearing a bikini and a cross around your neck.. you'll see the result !

Talking about provocations .. .. .. 
No empathy and no desire to be a part of the world that is moving forward in time, and hence is changing. 

 

The largest Muslim nation, Indonesia, has people going to the beach the way they want.
Liberal France cannot tolerate that.

[Baerboxer]

9 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

The Burkini is not a Burka as wearers show their full face and shows, to a degree, the female form. Personally I find it contradictory to ban the Burkini on some French beaches, at the same encouraging integration of the Muslim community into French society; IMO a backward step in community relations.

 

Unfortunately many Muslims are showing that their idea of "integration" is you must respect us, our culture, religious intolerance, and Sharia whilst we hold yours in contempt.

 

Not all Muslims, but a significant enough number who are prepared to use violence, extreme violence and murder to support that view when they deem necessary. 

 

You can encourage and facilitate integration when someone doesn't want to integrate. 

 

I can understand France, with it's proud secular traditions. 

[Baerboxer]

11 minutes ago, KKr said:

Talking about provocations .. .. .. 
No empathy and no desire to be a part of the world that is moving forward in time, and hence is changing. 

 

The largest Muslim nation, Indonesia, has people going to the beach the way they want.
Liberal France cannot tolerate that.

 

I think liberal secular France would be happy to tolerate that. Providing those people didn't then dictate to others on the beach what they can and cannot do, how they must behave and resort to violence if they can't get their own way.

 

 

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Unfortunately many Muslims are showing that their idea of "integration" is you must respect us, our culture, religious intolerance, and Sharia whilst we hold yours in contempt.

 

Not all Muslims, but a significant enough number who are prepared to use violence, extreme violence and murder to support that view when they deem necessary. 

 

You can encourage and facilitate integration when someone doesn't want to integrate. 

 

I can understand France, with it's proud secular traditions. 

 

France has proud secular traditions??? Traditionally France has had the highest percentage of anti Jewish sentiment in Europe, way before the large Muslim immigration. Indeed le Pen's party was 'traditionally' anti Semitic.

 

How you can justify the banning of Burkinis on some French beaches by associating with  Islamic extremism I do not know. It is alleged in Corsica the fight between groups was triggered by some locals photographing the Burkini clad women without first asking; don't know about you but some guys taking photos of my wife without permission would not meet with my approval. I hazard a guess the youths taking the photos were aggressive & insulting. In other parts of France some bans have been excused on the grounds of being unhygienic. Laughable people are defending discrimination based upon bigotry against people who are endeavouring to enjoy themselves with their families on a day out.

Edited August 17, 2016 by simple1

[greenchair]

2 hours ago, Zendo said:

 

Right ! But French have fight against catholics priest and rules .. they don't need more stupid religion to  be bother with anymore, stop the provocation.

 

Every women is able to wear burkini, or burka in their own houses, in their bathroom if it makes them feel good ! Or go to any arabian beach dressed with such a comfortable suit !

 

Try to go there wearing a bikini and a cross around your neck.. you'll see the result !

That's right. Raped, beaten and thrown out the country for disrespecting Allah or something. 

If Muslim woman in France want to break free from their restrictions by males they have every right and support. It does not mean they cannot be a faithful Muslim while blending into a culture. From what I see, the Muslim women are quite happy to be suppressed and have no rights. They support it and promote it themselves.