Aussie Suicide in Soi Arunothai, Pattaya

[farcanell]

3 hours ago, Agent Sumo said:

It's widely accepted on Thaivisa - even among the serial victims - that more than a few farangs here in Thailand are unhinged or depressed.

Why, then, is it that whenever one of them ends up dead from a fall, there's all this speculation as to the involvement of a third party?

 

The guy's friend and his girlfriend say they were in the room together when the deceased excused himself. Of course, it depends on whether or not they're being truthful but how do people expect the cops to establish the truth at the scene when the statements of both witnesses tally up and there's no obvious evidence to refute their accounts of what happened?

 

Sorry, but not all Westerners' lives are so idyllic and wonderful that the thought of suicide is out of the question.

 

Widely accepted? Really... TV readers, is this true of you? Or more so than the rate of depression in your native countries?

 

i thought it was obvious why we speculated over suicides... Lack of evidence, largely due to lack of investigation, or completely unfathomable comments made in the media.

 

im still struggling with the entire concept of suicide by weighting ones head down, with golf clubs, in a bucket of water, for example.... And cannot believe that  such case don't deserve speculation and thorough investigation

 

in this case... When the guy excused himself, the witness statements, which tally, also point out that the bloke appeared to be acting normal....  People acting normally, don't usually jump of balconies... This omitted item, from your post, is enough, in itself, to warrant an investigation to establish the truth.

 

also.... If Cigar7's post has even one shred of truth ( that was disturbing reading, by the way), then the BIBs should have been all over this, like flies on poop.....

 

Me, personally...I expect the police to establish the truth by investigating... Not by unfounded assumptions, which when made herein, by posters, are jumped on, much like the aforementioned poop analogy.

 

however, I do agree that not all expats are living the dream that they thought they would.

 

that said... Here's another theory for you... Not an assumption ( but do feel free to pounce)

 

given the the importance of face ( or loss thereof) if the police investigate, but fail to solve a case, they loose face... By declaring a suspicious death a suicide (eg... Golf bag induced suicide... Come on!) they don't seem to see a need to investigate, so they can't fail in their job... Meaning no loss of face

 

 

Edited August 19, 2016 by farcanell
Auto incorrect correction

[farcanell]

2 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

What do you mean how?  Print out the post and mail it, drop it off, email it to any of the editors on the newspaper. Or give the rest of the information the guy alleges he has in whatever format he wants.  The guy posted it here, he is already liable for defamation if it exists

 

And share it with the Australian news network.... Or the Brits... They will jump all over that, post Hannah's horrific murder ( my bad... I can't remember the poor blokes name)

[Agent Sumo]

9 minutes ago, farcanell said:

 

Widely accepted? Really... TV readers, is this true of you? Or more so than the rate of depression in your native countries?

 

i thought it was obvious why we speculated over suicides... Lack of evidence, largely due to lack of investigation, or completely unfathomable comments made in the media.

 

im still struggling with the entire concept of suicide by weighting ones head down, with golf clubs, in a bucket of water, for example.... And cannot believe that  such case don't deserve speculation and thorough investigation

 

in this case... When the guy excused himself, the witness statements, which tally, also point out that the bloke appeared to be acting normal....  People acting normally, don't usually jump of balconies... This omitted item, from your post, is enough, in itself, to warrant an investigation to establish the truth.

 

also.... If Cigar7's post has even one shred of truth ( that was disturbing reading, by the way), then the BIBs should have been all over this, like flies on poop.....

 

Me, personally...I expect the police to establish the truth by investigating... Not by unfounded assumptions, which when made herein, by posters, are jumped on, much like the aforementioned poop analogy.

 

however, I do agree that not all expats are living the dream that they thought they would.

 

that said... Here's another theory for you... Not an assumption ( but do feel free to pounce)

 

given the the importance of face ( or loss thereof) if the police investigate, but fail to solve a case, they loose face... By declaring a suspicious death a suicide (eg... Golf bag induced suicide... Come on!) they don't seem to see a need to investigate, so they can't fail in their job... Meaning no loss of face

 

 

 

I'll ignore your reference to the golf bag case because one incident doesn't represent a trend 

 

The witness statements tally and they said he seeming to be acting "normal" but it isn't possible to determine what state they themselves were in at the time.

 

Apparently, it was they deceased's last day of his holiday, his friend and girlfriend said they'd "had a drink" - maybe they had a lot of drink. 

 

If so and they were all half cut, how accurate would their recollection of his mood would they have been?

 

No one - NO ONE - can say with any certainty whatsoever that it wasn't suicide so idle speculation as to the existence of foul play is wholly unwarranted

 

Oh and, yes, people who commit suicide have been known to be "acting normal" before taking their own lives.

[Mavrix]

The deceased was a good friend of mine.

 

Facts:

 

He did not have a Thai GF.

He did have issues with depression in which close friends for a long time offered their unconditional support.

There is no "foul play" at all.

[ClutchClark]

7 minutes ago, Mavrix said:

The deceased was a good friend of mine.

 

Facts:

 

He did not have a Thai GF.

He did have issues with depression in which close friends for a long time offered their unconditional support.

There is no "foul play" at all.

 

Not trying to be a wiseguy but how does someone offer unconditional support for a clinically depressed person?

[farcanell]

22 minutes ago, Agent Sumo said:

 

I'll ignore your reference to the golf bag case because one incident doesn't represent a trend 

 

The witness statements tally and they said he seeming to be acting "normal" but it isn't possible to determine what state they themselves were in at the time.

 

Apparently, it was they deceased's last day of his holiday, his friend and girlfriend said they'd "had a drink" - maybe they had a lot of drink. 

 

If so and they were all half cut, how accurate would their recollection of his mood would they have been?

 

No one - NO ONE - can say with any certainty whatsoever that it wasn't suicide so idle speculation as to the existence of foul play is wholly unwarranted

 

Oh and, yes, people who commit suicide have been known to be "acting normal" before taking their own lives.

 

I was not trying to establish a trend.... I was using the golf bag assisted suicide as an example of why we speculate about police rulings of suicide.... But by all means, bury your head in the sand, if you wish.... Although as an expat, I would have thought it in all our interests if suicides were fully and thoroughly investigated.... Prior, perhaps... To your own (or mine) suicide 

 

if your not an expat.... Then that would be an erroneous assumption on my part, and I apologize if that causes any hurt

 

ironically, while decrying speculation, you yourself speculate on the mans level of sobriety, and that of his friends.... Had a drink, does not, even for an Australian, equate to puke in your boots drunk.... Or half cut, for that matter

 

i completely missed any comment about it being the deceased last day on holiday... Regardless.... I have friends who have been on their last day of holidays here, several times over... They just come back, vs topping themselves

 

anyway.... The more TV postings you read... The more speculation you will read... It's the inescapable nature of this forum, not helped by poor reporting, of course, or the seemingly lack of reporting of official closure to cases.

 

I also agree.... Some suicidees ( I may have just made that word up) do appear to act normally, prior to their demise... Just as some perpetrators of mass shootings appeared normal.... Ergo I used the word "usual" in my sentence.... Because I am aware of this point

 

And finally... Mavrix's post is probably the most valid here.... Pity it wasn't made earlier, then no one would have seen as much reason to speculate... And by the way... I don't believe there was any actual speculation in my post.... Just an explanation as to why they speculate (unless you wish to call my police face saving theory, speculation)

[balo]

5 hours ago, Mavrix said:

The deceased was a good friend of mine.

 

Facts:

 

He did not have a Thai GF.

He did have issues with depression in which close friends for a long time offered their unconditional support.

There is no "foul play" at all.

 

Let this be the last post and stop all the speculations now .  RIP. 

 

[cigar7]

It could have been easily foul play and the Police investigation could have been far more thorough. Usually Police do not believe speculation from only 2 or 3 people, who never saw the event occur, especially in the death of a person. Every death deserves a thorough investigation. There should be physical evidence and multiple eye witness testimony to corroborate the events, in any death or major crime. Fact: the Police did not collect evidence such as interview residents adjacent to possible jump sites on all floors, nor did they ask to see CCTV video available from some of the floors - this is not speculation this is fact.

 

Several of the people who voiced their opinion, to the Police, immediately at the scene, were known mafia associates. Of course, if their associates were involved, they would not want to lead Police to their associates.

 

Also, from the breezeways, it is possible to hit the awning, or the concrete directly. He hit the awning first, then bounced onto the concrete. A direct hit on the concrete would have been a more definitive way to end, than hitting the awning. The awning only covers maybe 10-20% of the possible area he could of hit from the breezeways.  So it seems odd, that the largest area that would make the end more likely, was not selected.

 

In fact, earlier on the day of the incident, a bunch of Thai punks, who were not condo residents, were hanging around from 7am, all day, along with a known mafia associates. They were riotous, drunk & or high on drugs, in the condo restaurant and pool area.

 

Someone at the Australian Embassy should be pressuring the Pattaya Police or Thai Army to make a complete thorough investigation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2016 by cigar7

[cigar7]

Some of those Thai punks and mafia associates, seen earlier in the day, were still in the condo at midnight. When Calcutt was on his  way out of the condo to his hotel, maybe he ran into them, had an encounter with them, and they decided toss him over the side?

 

 

 

 

[007cableguy]

I had to look after a condo in that building for a friend, I've never seen a more depressing building!. It reminded me of a prison!. Not a place I'd feel safe going into at night!

[shirtless]

Sounds very convenient for it to be suicide, Another good  reason not to invest in the condo market, big problems for little or no return coupled with asset depreciation.and can also be a major health hazard.

[Agent Sumo]

10 hours ago, cigar7 said:

It could have been easily foul play and the Police investigation could have been far more thorough. Usually Police do not believe speculation from only 2 or 3 people, who never saw the event occur, especially in the death of a person. Every death deserves a thorough investigation. There should be physical evidence and multiple eye witness testimony to corroborate the events, in any death or major crime. Fact: the Police did not collect evidence such as interview residents adjacent to possible jump sites on all floors, nor did they ask to see CCTV video available from some of the floors - this is not speculation this is fact.

 

Several of the people who voiced their opinion, to the Police, immediately at the scene, were known mafia associates. Of course, if their associates were involved, they would not want to lead Police to their associates.

 

Also, from the breezeways, it is possible to hit the awning, or the concrete directly. He hit the awning first, then bounced onto the concrete. A direct hit on the concrete would have been a more definitive way to end, than hitting the awning. The awning only covers maybe 10-20% of the possible area he could of hit from the breezeways.  So it seems odd, that the largest area that would make the end more likely, was not selected.

 

In fact, earlier on the day of the incident, a bunch of Thai punks, who were not condo residents, were hanging around from 7am, all day, along with a known mafia associates. They were riotous, drunk & or high on drugs, in the condo restaurant and pool area.

 

Someone at the Australian Embassy should be pressuring the Pattaya Police or Thai Army to make a complete thorough investigation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You mean they could have been more thorough in between the time they arrived at the scene and the story breaking in the media???

All of 30 minutes or so??

 

More idiotic commentary from the armchair CSI

 

Maybe the police should have consulted you 

[JSixpack]

1 hour ago, shirtless said:

Sounds very convenient for it to be suicide, Another good  reason not to invest in the condo market, big problems for little or no return coupled with asset depreciation.and can also be a major health hazard.

 

You keep saying this. You're looking for the sage, street smart TV forum poster Primal Laws Of Survival In Thailand:

 

1. Never invest in anything you aren't ready to lose;

2. Never own more than you can carry with you;

3. Keep your suitcase packed at all times.

     --http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/755930-what-are-the-additional-annual-costs-for-a-condo/#comment-8317428

 

Please give in full next time. Our vast brigade of renters will appreciate it.

 

FOOLS BUY REAL ESTATE has been one of our renters' memes for decades, most often among those who can't afford to buy anyway. Nothing new there.

 

Edited August 23, 2016 by JSixpack