Can Thailand Keep Counting On Tourism's 'Resilience'?

[digibum]

12 hours ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

The US issues 5 and 10 year tourist visas...doesn't mean people go on vacation for 10 years, only that they can go on periodic holidays to the US while the visa is valid.

 

Agree about the education system, however. There's that stat that something like 80% of Thai teachers (secondary) failed a standardized finals exam given to students in the subject they were teaching!

 

You're confusing the validity of the visa with the maximum length of stay.  Length of stay is limited to 6 months but the visa may be valid for up to 10 years.  The visa may also be single or multiple entry.  

 

You're also not factoring in that the US has a much more stringent qualification standard than just submitting a form and picking up a visa the next day which is what Thailand offers with their tourist visas.  

 

But really, the point is, there's close to zero demand for a 3 year or 10 year *tourist* visa in Thailand.  Most of the people who claim that this would bring billions of baht into the economy want it for themselves and, in most cases, they wouldn't pass any sort of stringent qualification process that included things like criminal record checks, proof of wealth/income, evidence of a reason for you to return to your home country at the end of your stay, etc.  That's why they want a tourist visa.  They want to pretend like they're just here to see the temples and lay on the beach.  Meanwhile they're illegally teaching or doing some other under the table job.

 

I can't even begin to count the number of immigration related discussions, online threads, etc I've seen over the years and not a single one can ever produce a concrete piece of evidence that these people exist in large enough numbers to warrant creating such a visa.  

 

Like I said, is there a need for something like a digital nomad visa?  Yes.  Is there a need to make work visas more accommodating and less of a hassle?  Yes.  Are many of the immigration laws pertaining to people who own and operate businesses in Thailand inefficient?  Yes.  

 

But those aren't tourists.  Actual tourists, people who have no intention of working in Thailand during their stay, who need 2, 3, 10 year visas just don't exist in large enough quantities.  

[Bender]

14 hours ago, LPCustom69 said:

And the countries that you mention will be the beneficiaries of increased tourism!

 

If I was younger, with no commitments here, I would choose Costa Rica, Columbia, or Brazil, in that order.

Columbia

[Bender]

thai govt is in panic mode. Half billion chinese are connected to internet. More independent chinese travellers, and they dont come to thailand because now they know.....

I was recently in Siem Reap, and every week end its full (august). Siem Reap is becoming the romantic gateway for asian people. The city is stunning, charming and you have Angkor Wat, a true wonder. This city is world class destination, world class infrastructure, world class facilities. (i will open a new thread soon). There is nothing comparable in thailand.

 

And then you have Vietnam, cheaper and better than here....  did you read the last lonely planet? They are doing a heavy advertising of this country.  I predict Vietnam will overtake thai tourism in less than 5 years.

Either thailand will share the pie or worst, it will lose completely his market.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Bender

[gk10002000]

They should not be counting on it.  People from democratic countries have a distaste for dictatorships.  People that expect reasonable civilian police to be in control and reasonable and fair civilian courts and laws tend to not like too much corruption.  The upside to downside ratio of Thailand is going in the wrong direction.  After twelve trips since 2004, I have slowed down my travels there.  So many great places and great people and fun things to do, but many people just aren't going to keep going to a place that is a dead end.  What I mean by dead end, is foreign investment is a huge risk now.  Coup after coup makes things much more risky than in the past, so many people that go for a long walk around or look see for possible retirement or investment just aren't going to do that.  Every little reason adds up in the negative for visiting the place

[chiang mai]

2 hours ago, Bender said:

thai govt is in panic mode. Half billion chinese are connected to internet. More independent chinese travellers, and they dont come to thailand because now they know.....

I was recently in Siem Reap, and every week end its full (august). Siem Reap is becoming the romantic gateway for asian people. The city is stunning, charming and you have Angkor Wat, a true wonder. This city is world class destination, world class infrastructure, world class facilities. (i will open a new thread soon). There is nothing comparable in thailand.

 

And then you have Vietnam, cheaper and better than here....  did you read the last lonely planet? They are doing a heavy advertising of this country.  I predict Vietnam will overtake thai tourism in less than 5 years.

Either thailand will share the pie or worst, it will lose completely his market.

 

Siem Reap, the one in Cambodia, has world class infrastructure, roads, transportation and communications systems, water and power lines, and public institutions including schools, post offices, and prisons. Really, I never would have guessed that!

[OMGImInPattaya]

4 hours ago, chiang mai said:

 

Siem Reap, the one in Cambodia, has world class infrastructure, roads, transportation and communications systems, water and power lines, and public institutions including schools, post offices, and prisons. Really, I never would have guessed that!

Goes double for Vietnam...both places are developing, which is good, but light-years behind Thailand, which is treading water which isn't good.

[Winniedapu]

This is a really dishonest piece of news reporting:

 

"That’s really small change for a destination that drew nearly 30 million visitors last year and is targeting 32 million arrivals and US$69 billion in tourism revenues this year."

 

Why talk about 30 million 'visitors' and then 32 million 'arrivals'? Obviously not the same thing, I suspect 'arrivals' include quite a lot of people who aren't tourists to Thailand. Perhaps someone with better knowledge could clarify that...

 

I'm going to need some adjustment I think. I know Thais lie in their teeth. I know Thai journalists are even more egregious than normal journalists, and that sometimes it seems that Thais have a truth bypass shunt inserted in their brains at birth. But it always comes as a surprise and a disappointment when it's this blatant.

 

Winnie

Edited August 24, 2016 by Winniedapu

[chiang mai]

12 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

 

You should have seen it back in the 90's. 

 

Even up to 2000 there still wasn't a road there, only dirt-tracks, no ATMs, no big hotels etc. 

 

I had Angkor Wat almost to myself!

 

I did and one year later I watched on Thai TV as the Khmer Rouge fought its last battles up against the border wire with Thailand, Siem Reap was the centre of the regime. I also saw it again in 2004 and 2007,  and whilst the place has improved substantially, it's not quiet world class infrastructure.

[Plutojames88]

Thailand is like a Down syndrome birthday party when the clown is Bi Polar and drunk.

 

Something will always go wrong and eventually the tears flow.

[thai3]

On 8/23/2016 at 7:54 AM, futsukayoi said:

 

But I am here for the temples and the culture .......   no really

 

Looking at sites like stickman who regularly post pics of working girls it's amazing even the sex trade is keeping it's end up, most of them are horrible. Then there is the lack of long time these days and the high prices which makes me wonder why anyone bothers coming here for sex, desperation is the only answer.

[Winniedapu]

4 minutes ago, Plutojames88 said:

Thailand is like a Down syndrome birthday party when the clown is Bi Polar and drunk.

 

Something will always go wrong and eventually the tears flow.

 

 

That's a bit harsh James...

 

See what you mean about the clown though, I suspect I know whose face you had in mind when you wrote that.

 

Winnie

[Winniedapu]

1 minute ago, thai3 said:

 

Looking at sites like stickman who regularly post pics of working girls it's amazing even the sex trade is keeping it's end up, most of them are horrible. Then there is the lack of long time these days and the high prices which makes me wonder why anyone bothers coming here for sex, desperation is the only answer.

 

 

Sadly there is no shortage of desperate men out there who think with their glans.

 

Winnie

[Plutojames88]

1 minute ago, Winniedapu said:

 

 

That's a bit harsh James...

 

See what you mean about the clown though, I suspect I know whose face you had in mind when you wrote that.

 

Winnie

Correct

[Winniedapu]

38 minutes ago, thai3 said:

 

Looking at sites like stickman who regularly post pics of working girls it's amazing even the sex trade is keeping it's end up, most of them are horrible. Then there is the lack of long time these days and the high prices which makes me wonder why anyone bothers coming here for sex, desperation is the only answer.

 

 

Sex is like food sometimes. If you can't get someone to give it to you for love, and you can't buy it for whatever reason, then you go looking somewhere else. Pattaya, Cowboy, Nana, Patpong... always lots to be had, and the providers aren't too fussy, money trumps standards I suppose.... but I think sex tourists are a relative minority (unless someone has better knowledge). They won't hold up Thailand's faltering tourist industry on their own, no matter how important they perceive themselves to be.

 

Winnie

Edited August 24, 2016 by Winniedapu

[Agent Sumo]

1 hour ago, thai3 said:

 

Looking at sites like stickman who regularly post pics of working girls it's amazing even the sex trade is keeping it's end up, most of them are horrible. Then there is the lack of long time these days and the high prices which makes me wonder why anyone bothers coming here for sex, desperation is the only answer.

 

You make that sound like a bad thing

 

The really good looking women are still available but they don't have to dance half naked in a dive 8 hours a night and go with battered old Westerners for a pittance any more.

They use Facebook, LINE and other social media to source their tricks and they get their asking price - no cheap charlies asking for an interlude for 1000 baht.

Welcome to the new world

 

As for prices, yeah it's absolutely scandalous that someone should want to maximize their income from doing a shitty, often degrading job. How dare they raise prices? How dare they treat it as a business transaction? 

[digibum]

4 hours ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

 

I know loads of guys that are technically tourists that work offshore or overseas on rotation that have been affected by the recent clampdowns on 30-day entry stamps. For most of them, getting visas after work prior to coming back to Thailand is so much hassle and often just not possible. Some have now moved to Cambodia, Phils etc. and others are considering their position. 

 

They would welcome a long-term tourist visa, and pay for it too.

 

Not sure I understand your point unless your offshore friends spend years at a time in Thailand.  

 

Also, if going to another country and simply paying a fee and collecting a visa is "so much hassle" then the requirements involved in a long-term visa would likely be unappealing as well. 

 

 

[digibum]

1 minute ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

They work on rotation, meaning their company sends them to and from Thailand, where they spend their R&R. Often they are straight off the rig or installation and straight to the airport, on a plane and back to Thailand. Out of a year, they may spend 3 to 6 months in Thailand. They don't really 'live' here. 

 

To get a visa every 90 days or 120 days is too much hassle and expensive as they would have to travel to a Thai consulate or embassy, possibly in another country to where they work. In places like West Africa these places simply don't exist. The only option would be to go back to their home country but many of them would not qualify for a Non-Immigrant visa either, so their options are limited. 

 

I know of two persons who were told at Suvarnabhumi that they would not have a problem with coming in on 30-day stamps, several weeks later they both now have the red stamps requiring visas to enter Thailand. 

 

Hence why many have moved now to Cambo and the Phils, easier to fly in and out and boy do these guys spend money. 

 

Well, perhaps one day Thailand will focus on the oil rig tourism market.  Until then, hope your buddies have a great time in Cambodia and The Philippines.  

 

 

[bannork]

TAT could try and tempt some of the wallies from the UK in the linked article below

http://www.france24.com/en/20160823-spain-balcony-jumping-craze-most-are-drunk-brits-study-finds

[Plutojames88]

On a more serious note.

Thailand authorities now admit they have been lying about terrorism spreading to western Tourism areas .

 

We now are told the bombers are from Deep South ....and operating in western Tourist destinations.

[LawrenceChee]

On 22 August 2016 at 8:40 PM, Thailand said:

On the Samoeng road?

Not too many Chinese,or travelers in general,paying 5-19,000Baht per night. At the moment Thailand seems to be able to shake off the never ending string of happenings that could send tourists rushing for the exits, hopefully that stays the same but unlikely with the likes of the surrounding countries eyeing up the the problems in Thailand and starting to take advantage with more friendly incentives etc.

Tanks on the streets and military shooting at civilians, happened more than once here, and I don't think they would backwards in coming forwards to do it again if unrest and dissent increases.

 

For the time being, probably not much change in tourism, but not particularly optimistic in the current climate.

 

Actually in Chiangmai ...head to Meriden, Shangri-La, Four Seasons, Dhara Dhevi and most of the top suites are occupied by the Chinese.

 

Recently in Chiangmai , the property developer from Kunming started driving down with his bentley ...ik believe it's the first for Cm to see one of these beauties. 

 

We had friends come over last month and stayed 2 weeks in Dhara Dhevi and they were at Fujian almost for most meals and they are expensive ones. Helped the restaurant manager hit 2 months target with their spendings there.

 

There is well oiled money....1% of china is 13 million and the salary scale for top talent in china in Tier 1 cities matches anywhere in the world ...for these upper middle class this amount to spend on hotels is not a lot. 

[Scotwight]

7 hours ago, Winniedapu said:

 

 

Sex is like food sometimes. If you can't get someone to give it to you for love, and you can't buy it for whatever reason, then you go looking somewhere else. Pattaya, Cowboy, Nana, Patpong... always lots to be had, and the providers aren't too fussy, money trumps standards I suppose.... but I think sex tourists are a relative minority (unless someone has better knowledge). They won't hold up Thailand's faltering tourist industry on their own, no matter how important they perceive themselves to be.

 

Winnie

You know those constant threads about not learning to speak or read the Thai language?  Well if you are one of those buffoons who does not think it is worthwhile to read/write and speak Thai you will never meet the college student sideline girls.  More now than every.  The place is packed with them as education is getting better PR and more necessary for a decent job.   The girls say, "sy lie" in case you wondered.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Scotwight
add photo

[thai3]

Not everyone on here is into chasing Schoolgirls, or Student prostitutes, disgusting.

[Bender]

On 8/24/2016 at 10:40 AM, Father Fintan Stack said:

 

You should have seen it back in the 90's. 

 

Even up to 2000 there still wasn't a road there, only dirt-tracks, no ATMs, no big hotels etc. 

 

I had Angkor Wat almost to myself!

in the last 5 years, China and Foreign investors poured so much money in Cambodia, they simply rebuild Siem Reap from the ground.

They build several hundreds high-end hotels and guesthouse, price running from few dollars to several hundred dollars.

>>>link to agoda

They open nearly 2 dozens supermarket with imported food and wine from all around the world. That would put to shame big c, tesco, tops, villa market, foodland. 

The roads and sidewalks are new and world class standard.  And last but not least, you can found very nice and huge condo completely furnished for 400 dollars.

As i said the city is stunning, and you have nothing comparable in thailand

(soon i will put few dozens pictures, so you can see by yourself)

 

 

ps: yesterday, it was raining and Bangkok airport was flooded, now tell me which country is third world standard!

Edited August 25, 2016 by Bender

[Bender]

On 8/24/2016 at 4:22 AM, chiang mai said:

 

Siem Reap, the one in Cambodia, has world class infrastructure, roads, transportation and communications systems, water and power lines, and public institutions including schools, post offices, and prisons. Really, I never would have guessed that!

time to time you should leave your barstool in soi 6 pattaya, and travel back to the real world. Time are changing quickly.

 

ps: i thought, you sweared i was on your ignore list

[chiang mai]

3 hours ago, Bender said:

time to time you should leave your barstool in soi 6 pattaya, and travel back to the real world. Time are changing quickly.

 

ps: i thought, you sweared i was on your ignore list

 

Sweared? It's swore Bender, swore!!

[Plutojames88]

It's like meat in an oven .....time will determine its fate.

 

 

Thais seem to be over cooking the product .

It's tough and the flavours gone ...

 

Smoke fills the kitchen and still they do nothing

Edited August 26, 2016 by Plutojames88

[Winniedapu]

48 minutes ago, Plutojames88 said:

It's like meat in an oven .....time will determine its fate.

 

 

Thais seem to be over cooking the product .

It's tough and the flavours gone ...

 

Smoke fills the kitchen and still they do nothing

 

I suspect Thailand is trading on past glories now. There have been several reasonably convincing articles recently which strongly suggest the glory days are over. Personally I do not believe for one moment the constant 'talking up' of Thai tourism by that harpie Kobkarn, and I think her figures are rubbery in the extreme (you know how Thais are with honesty).

 

That nice Mr Prayuth is an unstable character at best and it's certainly not beyond the realm of possibility that he will try to enforce a return to the 3 pillars by reducing the number of foreigners in the country. In general, by making Thailand generally less welcoming to them. Foreigners are largely less susceptible to his habitual BS than Thais seem to be, and they're harder to keep in line (except those comprising what I saw another poster referring to as the 'troll team').

 

Education and culture I suppose.

 

Sometimes, it's hard to watch this fellow at work and then see the apathy of the Thai reaction, and still feel optimism for Thailand. You can only put so much heat under the pressure-cooker.

 

Winnie