Testosterone Therapy in Thailand - Cost and Options

[superfletch]

Sheryl my doctor said that free T did not need to be measured because my PSA is normal?

[wpcoe]

On 8/31/2016 at 10:05 AM, NickJ said:

I wouldn't give up. Try the Andriol capsules. And take the correct dosage. For a month. The delivery system is different. Might be worth a try.

 

On 8/31/2016 at 0:08 PM, RawboneFunksta said:

Andriol does make a difference. Take about 4 to 6 caps daily after some fatty food.

 

Can Andriol  (legally) be bought OTC at a local pharmacy?

[ClutchClark]

1 minute ago, wpcoe said:

 

 

Can Andriol  (legally) be bought OTC at a local pharmacy?

 

Androgel 50-mg satchels can be puchased on Lower Suk near Soi 19, I think.

 

Real Belgium manufacture.

[Sheryl]

21 hours ago, superfletch said:

Sheryl my doctor said that free T did not need to be measured because my PSA is normal?

 

That makes no sense at all to me. Your total T is within normal range though towards  the lower end of normal range and you have symptoms that could be consistent with low T. Since it is free (unbound) T levels that matter, makes sense to measure it.

 

Normal PSA is a good sign in terms of being a candidate for T replacement; the combo of normal prostate size on digital exam and normal PSA pretty well rule out prostate cancer which is important to do before starting T because some prostate cancers grow more rapidly in presence of higher T levels. But I can't see its relevance to whether or not your symptoms are T related.

 

If free T comes back low, may be worth changing to a doctor specializing in male health/male HRT

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, wpcoe said:

 

 

Can Andriol  (legally) be bought OTC at a local pharmacy?

 

 

Yes. But only larger pharmacies with a real pharmacist on staff  (rarer than you might think) will have it.

 

[damo]

Do some research into liver damage, there is strong potential for hepatoxicity with oral AAS.

 

Forget nandrolone (decanote), unless you want to bulk up.

 

One thing that is true with Steroids is that what works for me will work differently for others. 10 different subjects could get 5+ different results. Do not buy shit from the gym scene and listen to your doctor. 

 

TRT is good and will give you a better quality of life. Injections of 0.5ml /150meg testosterone enanthate once a week is what some would call a therapeutic or lifestyle dose.

 

Your going to see your sides more when you stop use. Unless you want to bulk up you don't need to stack with other AAS. 

 

Do your own research with aromatisation being the best place to start.

 

Remember that test e is a powerful drug and needs to be respected and well researched before you use it, having said that the quality of life to be gained is significant.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

The topical gel avoids the liver issues which are indeed a concern with oral forms.

[simon43]

Slightly-related to this thread:

 

I have a low testosterone level (genetic condition - my father was the same).  Many years ago (20 years?) I had slow-releasing testosterone 'tabs' implanted just under the skin on each side.   These helped to increase my testosterone level, but of course, it has returned to a low level since that time.

 

Now I'm in my late 50's and one symptom I note that may be down to my low testosterone level is lack of upper body mass/muscle, (not a new symptom - I upper body has always lacked muscle/mass, whilst my logs look great

 

Is it indeed true, that a side effect of low testosterone is lack of upper body muscle?

 

My PSA level is normal, (slightly enlarged prostrate, and my doctor keeps an eye on it!).

 

At my age, would it be worthwhile to embark on some form of testosterone therapy to try to bulk up my upper body mass, (with relevant exercise as well)?

[robblok]

14 hours ago, simon43 said:

Slightly-related to this thread:

 

I have a low testosterone level (genetic condition - my father was the same).  Many years ago (20 years?) I had slow-releasing testosterone 'tabs' implanted just under the skin on each side.   These helped to increase my testosterone level, but of course, it has returned to a low level since that time.

 

Now I'm in my late 50's and one symptom I note that may be down to my low testosterone level is lack of upper body mass/muscle, (not a new symptom - I upper body has always lacked muscle/mass, whilst my logs look great

 

Is it indeed true, that a side effect of low testosterone is lack of upper body muscle?

 

My PSA level is normal, (slightly enlarged prostrate, and my doctor keeps an eye on it!).

 

At my age, would it be worthwhile to embark on some form of testosterone therapy to try to bulk up my upper body mass, (with relevant exercise as well)?

 

If you got low T then yes it will help and it will also help you bulk up. With higher T its normal to get more muscle. A side effect of low T is not having much muscle but it would mean also not having much leg muscles. 

 

With bodybuilders who use loads of the stuff they grow a lot but when they stop taking huge amounts they lose part of the muscle because there is not enough testosterone to hold it all (and losing some water weight)

 

Below from the net.. it clearly states low muscle mass

 

Physical Signs/Symptoms of Low Testosterone

• Erectile dysfunction (impotence: inability to develop or maintain an erection)
• Fatigue (lack of energy)
• Muscle mass and strength (reduced)
• Body fat (increased)
• Back pain.
• Osteoporosis development (reduced bone mass/density and increased risk of fracture)

[robblok]

21 hours ago, Sheryl said:

The topical gel avoids the liver issues which are indeed a concern with oral forms.

 

Correct but they are also a lot less reliable then injects in giving off the right dose (and far more expensive per dose)

[ClutchClark]

14 hours ago, simon43 said:

Slightly-related to this thread:

 

I have a low testosterone level (genetic condition - my father was the same).  Many years ago (20 years?) I had slow-releasing testosterone 'tabs' implanted just under the skin on each side.   These helped to increase my testosterone level, but of course, it has returned to a low level since that time.

 

Now I'm in my late 50's and one symptom I note that may be down to my low testosterone level is lack of upper body mass/muscle, (not a new symptom - I upper body has always lacked muscle/mass, whilst my logs look great

 

Is it indeed true, that a side effect of low testosterone is lack of upper body muscle?

 

My PSA level is normal, (slightly enlarged prostrate, and my doctor keeps an eye on it!).

 

At my age, would it be worthwhile to embark on some form of testosterone therapy to try to bulk up my upper body mass, (with relevant exercise as well)?

 

As for loss of upper body muscle:

Are you currently exercising and using weights and still losing muscle mass? 

 

A Hormone Replacement Therapy should not be used an easy substitution for weight resistance exercises. In fact, if you currently do not have an exercise routine then simply stsrting one and sticking to it will naturally boost Testosterone levels.  

[bkk6060]

On 9/1/2016 at 10:27 AM, Sheryl said:

At this point it is not clear that your testosterone needs to increased at all - need to get free T measured first.

You give a great deal of medical advice on here some seeming not so accurate.  Just curious what are your qualifications to do so? Are you a Doctor?

Edited September 6, 2016 by bkk6060

[superfletch]

Quick update on my testosterone issues - I have stuck to the exercise-and-diet regime and my testosterone has gone from 3.40 to 3.66. OK, so am still in the low end of normal range but the doctor is satisfied with that progress and won't consider prescribing TRT at this point. I return for another check in February and will be sticking to the same regime.

 

I have learned that lifting weights is the best way to boost testosterone and not cardio; cardio should only be done in short bursts. Also. losing belly fat apparently boosts testosterone too.

 

Diet-wise I'm eating plenty of eggs, chicken & pork plus milk and bananas but am limiting carb intake, so only small portions of rice. It's my aim to eat more avocado.

 

Feel free to comment - I'm keen to know what works for others.

[stud858]

I like your last post Superfletch. Recipe for happy life.  I follow much the same.

 

My Life plan that I recommend and works well for me.

Follow Atkins style of eating. Aim for zero carbs and body in ketosis mode.

Ketosis can be checked with ketosis sticks. I pee on them and they change color to show ketones in system.

Ketosis = Fat metabolism. = smoother more abundant energy. Ketosis needs a lot of discipline, but the lower the carbs the better so aiming for zero and ending up with 50g carb a day is better than aiming for 50 and taking 600grams carbs a day.

Take protein powder and preworkout. the beta alanine in the preworkout seems to help with focus and energy.

I use NO xplode, C4. or just take beta alanine alone sometimes.

 

I take test cypionate 200mg /week

Anabol

stanozolol.

Won't these drugs do harm to your body, some people ask.

Not as much as sitting watching TV eating potatoe chips.

Sure I could workout without them but Chance of slipping back to potato chips lifestyle is higher so they act as a insurance policy to stick to healthy lifestyle even if they may add some negative affects too.

 

Nothing inspires me more than to hear of people  wanting to take care of their bodies and run and be fit and help others.

Have a rippa day!

[bkk6060]

2 hours ago, stud858 said:

 

 

I take test cypionate 200mg /week

Anabol

stanozolol.

Won't these drugs do harm to your body, some people ask.

Not as much as sitting watching TV eating potatoe chips.

Sure I could workout without them but Chance of slipping back to potato chips lifestyle is higher so they act as a insurance policy to stick to healthy lifestyle even if they may add some negative affects too.

 

Nothing inspires me more than to hear of people  wanting to take care of their bodies and run and be fit and help others.

Have a rippa day!

I do the injections and I agree with most of your comments.  I do have 2 friends however in the USA who are in their early 60's and have had heart attacks taking a similar regime as you.  Maybe they would have had their heart attacks anyway, who knows.  But their doctors told them it was because of the drugs.

[RawboneFunksta]

Anyone who wants to know: Testosterone Etanthate (Bayer)can be bought from many places in Bangkok. I am told Patpong and Sukhumvit chemists have it.

I buy from a chemist shop  near to Siriraj Hospital. There are lots and lots of chemists shops here where most things can be brought cheaply.

10x1ml ampules each containing 250mg of testosterone can be brought for approx. 140-160 baht per ampule. Syringes, antiseptic swabs and needles can also be brought for next to nothing. Ask a local medical centre to inject you once or twice a week with 500mg of the stuff if you don't have a girlfriend.

Also try Vitamin B12....very good stuff. Hit the gym, you will be better motivated to do so, and see the results; tiredeness and lethargy, bye bye.

Muscle growth and weight loss, Hello!

 

[HLover]

On 8/25/2016 at 8:13 AM, superfletch said:

Haha I already have the ear hair, it's the testicles I'm potentially more concerned about..

The shots will not cause your hairy egg nest to grow bushier.

[dontoearth]

On 8/25/2016 at 8:20 AM, superfletch said:

Thank you for taking the time to respond Sheryl, I appreciate it. My Thai doc was suggesting that it may be very difficult to stop treatment once it has started. I have to say, depression is a slim possibility. 

     If you do a trial dose and the fatigue does not go away even if the test boosted your test scores you could stop!  That is not the problem.  Doctors that keep treating people with medications that are not solving the problem but keep the patient is some imaginary "normal range" are not good doctors IMHO.   If the fatigue goes away then TRT is the solution.  However, I use TRT and found I got more energy by doing an Atkins diet than from the TRT.  Even if you have no blood sugar problems showing diabetes or pre-diabetes sometimes your body has started on the path of rejecting processed foods and carbohydrates long before any medical test shows other damage to the body.

     I really understand I suffered from Chronic Fatigue for many years and I started to schedule any processed carbs for eating to late after the evening meal.  Keeping the processed carbs  close to zero kept  me awake and active during the day and my occasional cheat at night even helped me sleep better.  If I ate the junk food during the day I was so tired I had trouble standing.  They provide me an excellent sleep but not a good energy source.  No drinks with sugar in them, no crackers, chips, donuts, cake, pie, ice cream, donuts, pastry, bread or gooey desserts of any type for me.  Unless its a cheat at bedtime every week or two. 

    Have you done a google search of all meds you take to see if the chronic tiredness and fatigue is a side effect.  Often it takes years for drugs to build up enough to give you side effects.  I know cholesterol meds are so dangerous in this respect an organized group of doctors opposes them.

     I also exercised to beat the band and took about 41 US pounds off my body.  That helped a lot.  Is your weight in the normal range?

     Good Luck.  I am hoping you find a solution.

[dontoearth]

On 8/30/2016 at 9:51 PM, wpcoe said:

Not sure there's a "too young for T replacement."  Our bodies are each unique and not the same.  When I was in my early 40's, after a routine physical (in the U.S.) my doctor told me I had the testosterone level of a healthy 72-year old.  So, it was not "too young" for me in my early 40's.

 

That said, the attempt to supplement my testosterone levels and that time, and a couple more times in my 50's, were unsuccessful.  The earliest attempt involved using a testosterone gel, and the two latest times were with Nebido injections.  None of the courses were effective in raising my testosterone levels, so I've given up.

      I have had TRT and the androgel did absolutely nothing for me also.  I checked the company website and went over to the medical data area submitted for approval section and found out it only works in 80% of men leaving 1 in 5 with nothing.  Even further they considered raising the test a success so if you were super low and now low and even if still not on the scale then it had worked successfully in boosting test according to the Androgel data.  This is the reason it really doesn't work to have companies do their own research and then set their own standards.

    I had Nebido it is not that strong and most doctors don't follow the protocol.  You should get a shot and a booster at 6 weeks and then go on 10 week intervals according to the product website.  My doctor didn't do the booster.  I mentioned it but a blank stare was the response. I hate it when doctors are prescribing meds and have not bothered to read the product specs.

     You might try shorter frequency of  injections of something like Susaton or another test product.  The vial is usually 2.5 times more test than the timed controlled  Nebido if you were going to use test every week.

      If that doesn't do it then I can't think of anything in the medical area to boost you up.

[dontoearth]

On 10/14/2016 at 3:07 AM, superfletch said:

Quick update on my testosterone issues - I have stuck to the exercise-and-diet regime and my testosterone has gone from 3.40 to 3.66. OK, so am still in the low end of normal range but the doctor is satisfied with that progress and won't consider prescribing TRT at this point. I return for another check in February and will be sticking to the same regime.

 

I have learned that lifting weights is the best way to boost testosterone and not cardio; cardio should only be done in short bursts. Also. losing belly fat apparently boosts testosterone too.

 

Diet-wise I'm eating plenty of eggs, chicken & pork plus milk and bananas but am limiting carb intake, so only small portions of rice. It's my aim to eat more avocado.

 

Feel free to comment - I'm keen to know what works for others.

   This was part of my therapy and I think it helped more than TRT.  Good Luck.  Keep it up.

[RawboneFunksta]

TRT

 

So here is an update on Testosterone therapy after 2 years. Maybe some will find it useful.

Natural methods of boosting Test are all well and good as is healthy eating but Testosterone injections combined with hard work (that you will feel positive about doing) produce incredibly good results even at age 60+

Regime:

250mcg/1 ml of testosterone enanthate/cyprionate/mixed once per week. (You may want to take less but this amount suits me)

Training regime varies in frequency depending on time but high intensity free weights are my thing with a bit of aerobic thrown in

Where to buy

Bayer Enanthate is sold at some shops around Nana and Silom (ask me for details) Black Dragon Test is sold around Nana soi 3 area (again, ask for details) The Thai, Black Dragon is better and cheaper as it is not suspended in such viscous liquid so is easier to inject than Bayer. It's 1,000 baht for 10 mls whereas the Bayer is closer to 1400/1600 baht. Black Dragon comes in 1 bottle so you can simply draw off what you need without having to break individual ampules open. 

 

Medical advice

 

Generally doctors do not know an awful lot about the subject so one has to learn oneself and guide the doctor

Dr Pimook at BNH will give regular blood tests and they will email the results. Cost about 3200 baht and you should do it every 3 months or so.

 

Why blood tests?

 

The level of testosterone will be much higher than the standard measure but this is less important than the estradiol level. Testosterone when in abundance can (in some people) convert to female hormone-estradiol. All men need some of this but the conversion process called aromatisation creates higher levels that are not useful or desirable. It is easy to combat this process and prevent aromatisation by taking a medicine called Arimidex ( 1 tablet up to once a day but maybe only 3 times a week) 

 

This is why you need blood tests, it is a balancing act at first until you nail down exactly the right amount of Arimidex to take. (Its an expensive drug costing 7000 baht for 28 tabs. There is a Thai version that is as good for 1500 baht for 28 tabs) 

 

In the first few months it is a case of trial and error to balance your estradiol and keep it in a suitable range between 10 -60 pg/ml. The blood test will show this and you can adjust if necessary. Of course, you may not need to take Arimidex at all.

 

Results

 

The best aspect is the renewed desire and enthusiasm to exercise, it's a real kick up the arse. 

Working hard in the gym produces spectacular results 

You will look much better and feel better

BUT if you don't train you will just get fat so it's not a wonder drug, its a starter pack to a better life.

 

 

Edited August 3, 2018 by RawboneFunksta

[marc69]

I have some similar symptoms as described in the OP. I have skimmed through the whole thread but it does not seem to be any recommendation for a specific doctor or clinic to visit in Bangkok.

I really do not want to start with TRT if it is not absolutely necessary so I would like to consult a specialist doctor in the area and have some blood tests to find out about the underlying reasons for my symptoms. I would appreciate any recommendation for a reputable doctor or clinic in Bangkok.

[Sheryl]

On 11/2/2024 at 12:01 PM, marc69 said:

I have some similar symptoms as described in the OP. I have skimmed through the whole thread but it does not seem to be any recommendation for a specific doctor or clinic to visit in Bangkok.

I really do not want to start with TRT if it is not absolutely necessary so I would like to consult a specialist doctor in the area and have some blood tests to find out about the underlying reasons for my symptoms. I would appreciate any recommendation for a reputable doctor or clinic in Bangkok.

 

Doctors:

 

https://www.bumrungrad.com/en/doctors/sarawut-summachiwakij

 

Clinic:

https://www.pulse-clinic.com/andropause-symptoms-treatment-in-bangkok-chaing-mai-pattaya-phuket

 

[Hummin]

On 10/14/2016 at 10:07 AM, superfletch said:

Quick update on my testosterone issues - I have stuck to the exercise-and-diet regime and my testosterone has gone from 3.40 to 3.66. OK, so am still in the low end of normal range but the doctor is satisfied with that progress and won't consider prescribing TRT at this point. I return for another check in February and will be sticking to the same regime.

 

I have learned that lifting weights is the best way to boost testosterone and not cardio; cardio should only be done in short bursts. Also. losing belly fat apparently boosts testosterone too.

 

Diet-wise I'm eating plenty of eggs, chicken & pork plus milk and bananas but am limiting carb intake, so only small portions of rice. It's my aim to eat more avocado.

 

Feel free to comment - I'm keen to know what works for others.

I see this is an old topic, but a change from 3,4 to 3,66 doesnt mean anything else than T fluctates during the day, and are highest in the morning after a good night sleep, and it depends on the time giving the test. 

 

3,66 can be ok depending on your free T, and you are doing something to improve it. But if it doesnt change after a few months up closer to 6, you need to have a serious talk with your dr, 

[Hummin]

On 11/2/2024 at 6:01 AM, marc69 said:

I have some similar symptoms as described in the OP. I have skimmed through the whole thread but it does not seem to be any recommendation for a specific doctor or clinic to visit in Bangkok.

I really do not want to start with TRT if it is not absolutely necessary so I would like to consult a specialist doctor in the area and have some blood tests to find out about the underlying reasons for my symptoms. I would appreciate any recommendation for a reputable doctor or clinic in Bangkok.

 

I can recomend this one at Bangkok Hospital. Been with them since 2018. Never tried to give me anything else than what I neeed, and they are ok I buy my medicine other places, and also give healthy recomandations. 

 

I do not find their link now. I know they changed their profile a while back

Edited November 3 by Hummin

[marc69]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

 

I can recomend this one at Bangkok Hospital. Been with them since 2018. Never tried to give me anything else than what I neeed, and they are ok I buy my medicine other places, and also give healthy recomandations. 

 

I do not find their link now. I know they changed their profile a while back

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply. If you find the name or can locate the doctor somewhere else, please feel free to PM me.

 

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Doctors:

 

https://www.bumrungrad.com/en/doctors/sarawut-summachiwakij

 

Ckinic:

https://www.pulse-clinic.com/andropause-symptoms-treatment-in-bangkok-chaing-mai-pattaya-phuket

 

Many thanks Sheryl for the links.

[IC2000]

Can anyone point me to some proper information or answer the following:

 

What happens if you want or need to come off T medicines?

A. Oral, gel

B. Injections

 

If you do your own injections at home is it an insulin needle or some big long nasty looking thing?

 

Do oral / gel make your testicles really shrink?

 

Oral, gel effective? Some say yes, others no.

 

If on medicines how often do you need to have lab tests performed?

 

Above reading oral, gel seems much safer but also much less effective.

 

Which tests need to be done for an accurate picture?

 

Side effects you personally have encountered.

 

What if you're doing injections and you take a long trip out of Thailand? I wouldn't want to be carrying syringes and whatnot.

 

What is the estimated cost of maintenance of this monthly?

 

 

Thank you

[Mister Fixit]

On 8/25/2016 at 7:56 PM, PattayaBoy said:

Btw
Its easy just get it no prescription and inject yourself.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
 

Yes, I do that as I have a pituitary adenoma (cyst) and need regular injections of testosterone.  

I buy a 3-ampoule pack of testosterone enanthate for 550 baht from a pharmacy next to the petrol station at Nana crossroads which my local clinic charges me 80 baht to inject every 18 days.  It's usually 21 days for most people but the doc and I titrated the does as an experiment and we found that 18 days was best to achieve an optimum level, mainly because I'm approaching 76 now.

I don't inject myself because the nice lady doctor at my local clinic only charges 80 baht (including syringe) and is so skilled I never feel any discomfort.  

Although you can buy the 3-pack from Nana, your problem is that you'd need to find a doctor who will be prepared to inject you and you'd need to convince them with a history that it would be safe.

NOTE - the 3-pack at 550 baht is from India but there is a single ampoule pack costing 200 baht (which some consider 'better') which is sourced from Austria.  

I have found no difference except that buying three single amp packs here in Nonthaburi saves me a fairly long traipse down to Nana, although costing me the 20-something baht extra per amp but not having to pay the MRT fare and a walk up from Sukhumvit station to just past Nana crossroads as I have stage 3 to 4 arthritic knees.  

Edited November 6 by Mister Fixit