Locals cry foul as farang climbs on sacred Samui landmark

[jacko45k]

Because it is there!

Is there any notice about not climbing on the rock or something to deter climbers, there wasn't last time I saw it. No different than the urinating by the roadside and tipping I see most days.

[BlindMagician]

17 hours ago, Kerryd said:

It sounds like they need to make it a lot more obvious that the rock(s) are off-limits. People these days (well, not just these days) are far more concerned about their own self-interests than anyone else's and seem to have fewer qualms about doing things that previous generations would have almost never considered.

 

Like that American scout leader who pushed over one of those ancient boulders that was perched on top of a smaller stone pedestal that took millions of years to create (and then claimed, after he got caught of course, that he was trying to protect people that might get hurt if that boulder ever fell on it's own. Naturally. Maybe another million or so years from now.)

 

Or like that kid that defaced a 5,000 year old rock carving in Norway because he wanted to make it easier to see.

Or the woman that is (now) banned from every National Park in the US for defacing protected rocks and spray painting her social media name on them. 

Or the people that go to ancient temples and take lewd photographs.

 

Where I grew up as a kid, we used to have to ride a barge (pushed by an old tugboat) 36 miles up a lake to get to our community. In the summertime the barge used to stop at one spot where you could look at (really, really old but probably not "ancient") rock paintings that could only be seen from the water. The paintings told the story of Blackfoot raiding parties that used to cross the Rocky Mountains in the early spring to raid the Shuswaps for women (and horses eventually). (It was said that the Shuswaps were lazy and easy to defeat, but they had beautiful women). 

They would then travel back across the Rockies to the prairies before the winter snows blocked the passes. Back when they were still using canoes to get up to the top end of the lake, the Blackfoot would stop at that one spot and paint the story of their raid (or raids) on the rock wall.

People on the barge would take pictures while the kids swam in the lake and then 15-20 minutes later the barge would continue on.

The paintings were there for who knows how long (possibly hundreds of years) until word got around and people on houseboats would travel to that spot. 

 

What happened next ? Well of course, taking a picture just wasn't good enough for some people so they started chipping off pieces of the rocks. Apparently (word of mouth rumours) more of the paintings ended up in the lake than into people's hands as most people were just using rocks or hammers to bash the paintings while trying to break off a nice hunk. It was far enough away from any people that no one would ever know you'd ever been there (even now). Naturally, there's nothing left of it now so another small piece of history has disappeared forever.

 

Never doubt that there are people who are willing to purposefully destroy all manner of history for their own selfish interests. 

 

 

 

 

 

Can you write a ten page summary of your heafty volume. I have a lot of reports to read....not just yours. I'm sure its wonderful though.

[Jiggo]

Not exactly Stonehenge.........

 

[williamgeorgeallen]

6 hours ago, Docno said:

 

So are you suggesting that there wouldn't be outrage if a Thai had climbed the rock? I suspect you'd be wrong... Maybe it's not about blaming foreigners, but some foreigner visitors come to Thailand without it cross their minds that a rock might have more significance to Thais than it would in their own country.

 

of course a thai would probably not climb on this rock. it seems to be that thais are more upset about small things foreigners do than they are about major crimes their own people commit. examples are the unwanted baby that was left on an ant nest to be killed or the baby that was raped and then the mother poured boiling water in its mouth to stop it from crying. these crimes did not seem to get upset the thai public as much as some of the minor crimes of foreigners.

[joecoolfrog]

3 hours ago, alofthailand said:

Many natural formations are special to local people in many areas in many parts of the world. The desire to conquer, climb on, despoiled is awfulto see. It is not up to us to queryor challenge such local beliefs. He is a vandal and  hooligan who should have been punished.

So you expect every tourist in Thailand to know the cultural significance ( or not ) of every rock they see ?

If there was a sign in place then yes he was being a <deleted> and deserves scorn , but there wasn't , presumably because the locals were not that bothered , so why are you being such a prig ?

[Blackheart1916]

1 hour ago, Fireyfish said:

bullshit ... I was told by locals that the rocks had spiritual significance when I first visited Samui in 1979

Well mate, over the last 20 years I have seen people of all persuasions, including Thais, climbing, fishing, drinking and photographing over, on and around these rocks. I don't doubt you were told that in 1979, maybe the significance has dissipated over time.

[futsukayoi]

18 hours ago, JHolmesJr said:

Ive been down there….never even crossed my mind to want to climb it...

 

I was more taken by the little market they have on the way there...

 

I have been there several times.  Never noticed crowds of Thais chanting, preying or venerating it in any way.  Pull for tourist dollars yes.  Sacred site no.

[LukKrueng]

19 hours ago, Foreign Jim said:

A 'sacred' rock in the shape of a penis with a crevasse like a vagina that locals worship:  that rock is just begging to be climbed.  Who gives a toss?

obviously the locals do. No one is asking for your approval for what is important for then. As a guest in their country and home you should show respect to their feelings, even by western standards

[radiochaser]

In the United States, I drove from Texas to California on one of the freeways.  I stopped at a natural formation in a huge rock wall in either Arizona or New Mexico.  

Tourist were climbing over every part that could be climbed on.  So I went up to get a closer look myself.  The first thing I noticed was the graffiti all over it. People had drawn or carved thier names and the date they had been there.  

I was a little angry about seeing it.  Then saw some of the graffiti was nicely  done, well carved old style fonts, also with the name of the person, or groups of people, dates, where they had come from, where they were going etc.  

The oldest date I had found was the late 1500's and included dates in the 1600's, 1700's, 1800's, 1900's, up to the current time I was there, including that day in 1979!

 

[LomSak27]

Uh Oh they are furious again as a farang disrespects Thailand

 

Whew, at least that is done for this week. We can look for more disrespect next week after taking a well deserved Break 

[Sphere]

"Sacred" landmark?

 

It's possible someone confused that penis rock with the hard rock cafe.

[bristolgeoff]

i wonder if any thais have climbed on the rock before they pushed the tourist boat out to make tourist go there

[emilymat]

19 hours ago, klauskunkel said:

...and for caramel vendors

What the heck is a 'famous' brand of caramel.   What a ludicrous story.

[Cats4ever]

As Aretha Franklin once sang.......R E S P E C T.

[Docno]

4 hours ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

of course a thai would probably not climb on this rock. it seems to be that thais are more upset about small things foreigners do than they are about major crimes their own people commit. examples are the unwanted baby that was left on an ant nest to be killed or the baby that was raped and then the mother poured boiling water in its mouth to stop it from crying. these crimes did not seem to get upset the thai public as much as some of the minor crimes of foreigners.

 

Couldn't find any references on Google to babies left on ants nests, so can't comment on that. As for the incident where boiling water was put in a baby's mouth, the opening line of the ThaiVisa piece on it was " A shocking and grievous assault on a one and a half year old baby in Chonburi has revolted the Thai public."  So perhaps your memory of how the Thai public reacts to various incidents is a little selective...

[fasteddie]

8 hours ago, Fireyfish said:

bullshit ... I was told by locals that the rocks had spiritual significance when I first visited Samui in 1979

Well nobody mentioned it to me on my twenty odd visits from late eighties to mid nineties.

[fasteddie]

12 hours ago, Sappho said:

I lived on the beach near those rocks in the late 80's and was there in the early 90's too.  I lived there with Thai artists.  People were always walking over and around those rocks-tourists and Thais alike.  I didn't know they no longer allowed you to climb on them.  It's too bad they have become such a "thing".  They were quietly respected and it was wonderful to just come across them.  I guess the amounts of tourists-Thai and foreign alike going to see them have grown so much that they have decided to put more precautions around-and it allows entrepreneurial people to make money at the same time :-)

They served mushroom omelets in those days too and we smoked ganja pretty openly...

Things change.......

Those were the days, things change but often not for the best.

[goonnerone]

22 hours ago, Imkah said:

I have time and time again rested my weary soul (dick included) on the beautiful shores of Thailand.  Although both signs of my soul and my dick have fallen into disrepair that gives NO ONE! the right to climb either.  

For a 1000bht I know quite a few girls that would climb on your soul and your dick  

[mydee]

21 hours ago, ljd1308 said:

Not sure how it is pathetic and insulting, care to explain? 

 

I agree, it should be respected if it is sacred, but the issue is how are all tourists supposed to know this without being told? The sign warning people not to climb(no mention of the sign stating it was part of a fertility cult) was in disrepair.

 

 

Given your wealth of knowledge though, care to share which fertility cult this particular rock belongs to in Thailand? How does it tie in to said fertility cult? And how does it disrespect this specific fertility cult? I am eager to learn from you.

 

Certainly, happy to oblige.

Fertility cults, for want of a better term, are quite common in South East Asian countries and predate Buddhism and can be seen as part of an animist tradition that Buddhisn replaced. In Thailand's case  they may originate from a  classical Hindu tradition, where the Lingam is a phallic symbol representing the god Shiva and his rampant sexuality. "Tantric" Hinduism uses ritual sexual intercourse to unite with the sexual power of the goddess Shakti, with magic spells and divinations    Even today men and boys in Thailand even today sometimes wear a manflute amulet to draw bad luck away

 

Phallus (lingam)  and female genital images (Yoni), statues or natural images were revered and offerings were made to them as they were thought to enhance fertilty.  Natural rock formations that resemble the lingam or the yoni are also assumed to have special powers. Unlike Abbrahamic religions the great Asian religions such as Hinduism and Buddhism adopted existing practices, including fertility rites.

 

Most Thai towns have such a lingam in the city square although nowadays they are discretely hidden behind curtains. Under these circumstances it is highly likely that the rock carries religious significance for the Thais.

I hope this helps

[ljd1308]

1 minute ago, mydee said:

 

Certainly, happy to oblige.

Fertility cults, for want of a better term, are quite common in South East Asian countries and predate Buddhism and can be seen as part of an animist tradition that Buddhisn replaced. In Thailand's case  they may originate from a  classical Hindu tradition, where the Lingam is a phallic symbol representing the god Shiva and his rampant sexuality. "Tantric" Hinduism uses ritual sexual intercourse to unite with the sexual power of the goddess Shakti, with magic spells and divinations    Even today men and boys in Thailand even today sometimes wear a manflute amulet to draw bad luck away

 

Phallus (lingam)  and female genital images (Yoni), statues or natural images were revered and offerings were made to them as they were thought to enhance fertilty.  Natural rock formations that resemble the lingam or the yoni are also assumed to have special powers. Unlike Abbrahamic religions the great Asian religions such as Hinduism and Buddhism adopted existing practices, including fertility rites.

 

Most Thai towns have such a lingam in the city square although nowadays they are discretely hidden behind curtains. Under these circumstances it is highly likely that the rock carries religious significance for the Thais.

I hope this helps

It does help, thank you.

 

But where in that post does it refer specifically to the rock on Samui? It seems very general and not specific to this case at all.

Even in your discourse you preempted everything with the word "may" which implies that you are not sure and you are only taking a guess(educated guess). If that is the case, are you not just doing what I and many others have done?

You are also the first person that I have seen that made this connection and that includes the people directly involved, journalists and people on this forum.

 

You also neglected to tell me what was pathetic and insulting about my post and also how tourists to a country should know a rock is sacred without anyone telling them.

 

Your guess may be better than mine(it probably is to be fair), but it is still just a guess.

[Happy Grumpy]

Farang climbs a rock - outrageous. 

 

Thais have young prostitutes along the roadside brothels that they run - no problem.

 

 

[Stargeezr]

In Thailand, respect their country, and do not climb on their sacred areas.

  Is that such a hard thing to do?  In Canada ,people have destroyed some of our natural

landmarks, and people are now angry when it is too late.  This dolt who climbed on the

rock should be happy that he is not in a Thai jail, eating rice and getting skinny.

I seen a German family climb on a Buddha statue and get immediately taken to

jail, then next day they were deported back to Germany.   I  was glad to see that happen to them as

they had been in Thailand for a whole 2 days and had already acted like the total fools

that they were.  For the commenters,  think about your own countries and how you would feel

for some tourist to do something to your landmarks.

Geezer

[Rorri]

On 23/08/2016 at 3:44 PM, AlphMichaels said:

Lightbulb moment - place a sign near the "monument" in English, Mandarin, and (probably) Swedish...., No climbing the Cock Rock or you will be fined - 5000THB.  

Light bulb a bit dim, there is a sign, it is mentioned, but like so many it was unreadable, in other words not maintained.

[Rorri]

On 23/08/2016 at 4:07 PM, sahibji said:

we should respect local beliefs even though we may not agree with the concept. remember you are just a visitor.

Although you are correct, in this case, how does someone know what a local  belief is. For all others it's a rock. Before you reply read the story, particularly  the part about the sign.

[AlphMichaels]

5 hours ago, Rorri said:

Light bulb a bit dim, there is a sign, it is mentioned, but like so many it was unreadable, in other words not maintained.

To my early-on suggestion, light bulb bright (er) now that I know there's a sign.  Sort of a sign.  Not really a sign. 

 

I've got it!  Put a light above the sign, illegible or otherwise.  Song.

Edited August 25, 2016 by AlphMichaels
I couldn't stop laughing?

[greenchair]

It's a rock. I was expecting a Buddha image or something. 

The district office should be fined for not doing their job and putting a clear sign on "the rock" stating it is apparently illegal to sit on and the penalty of 5000 baht. 

Because of their negligence, this poor tourist has been humiliated and criticized on FB, for doing nothing more than trying to get a better view of the sea. 

I think they just made this rule up. Where's the law that says you can't climb a rock or "a penis "  as the Thais like to call it? 

[NCC1701A]

PIONEER: Do you mind if I put this antenna up on yonder peak?
INDIAN: That's our Sacred Mountain.
WAGON BOSS: This is our Sacred Antenna! It's shaped like a cross! Made out of aluminum. Er-got any aluminum?
INDIAN: We've still got some corn left.
PIONEER: Hey! Corn! Now we can make whisky!
ANOTHER PIONEER: We've been waitin' hundreds o' years for this!

[MiKT]

On ‎25‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 2:54 AM, Stargrazer9889 said:

In Thailand, respect their country, and do not climb on their sacred areas.

  Is that such a hard thing to do?  In Canada ,people have destroyed some of our natural

landmarks, and people are now angry when it is too late.  This dolt who climbed on the

rock should be happy that he is not in a Thai jail, eating rice and getting skinny.

I seen a German family climb on a Buddha statue and get immediately taken to

jail, then next day they were deported back to Germany.   I  was glad to see that happen to them as

they had been in Thailand for a whole 2 days and had already acted like the total fools

that they were.  For the commenters,  think about your own countries and how you would feel

for some tourist to do something to your landmarks.

Geezer

 

 

Mrs miKT has been away taking food parcels to the poor UK natives and the one Thai daughter (pictured above 7/8 years ago) who now fecklessly chooses to live in a cold and rainy England.

 

But I wanted to check my memory of said daughter and sisters clambering up these rocks many times when young before posting more.

 

She laughed herself sick when I asked if they were considered sacred.

 

I also have a pic somewhere of some other young ladies posing rather rudely over the rock gym.

 

Not sacred.........End of story.

 

[fasteddie]

50 minutes ago, MiKT said:

 

 

Mrs miKT has been away taking food parcels to the poor UK natives and the one Thai daughter (pictured above 7/8 years ago) who now fecklessly chooses to live in a cold and rainy England.

 

But I wanted to check my memory of said daughter and sisters clambering up these rocks many times when young before posting more.

 

She laughed herself sick when I asked if they were considered sacred.

 

I also have a pic somewhere of some other young ladies posing rather rudely over the rock gym.

 

Not sacred.........End of story.

 

 

"I also have a pic somewhere of some other young ladies posing rather rudely over the rock gym."

 

Sorry I don't believe you, proof please, pretty please LoL

 

 

[MiKT]

2 hours ago, fasteddie said:

 

"I also have a pic somewhere of some other young ladies posing rather rudely over the rock gym."

 

Sorry I don't believe you, proof please, pretty please LoL

 

 

 

I have a feeling that it was way back in the days of film, so it might take a while to dig it out.

 

But if you pop into PatPong with a box of ping pong balls, a pack or 3 of razor blades and a roll of dental floss you might get some idea of what would be facing you...........................or don't they allow that any more?