An Australian trying to retire in Thailand

[georgemandm]

36 minutes ago, Seizetheday said:

I disagree, as the owner of a business who employed people and paid well over $200,000 in tax for several years, why shouldn't I be entitled to the pension. I've paid more than my fair share of tax.

You can disagree all you want but that is how it is .

so you are getting on here and telling me you was paying something like $200,000 in tax the years you was In business and you want the government to give you a hand out , give me a break if you were not that smart when you was in business to put money away for when you retire that is your problem not the governments 

[Bob9]

1 hour ago, oxo1947 said:

And don't mention you are living with a Thai girl........ your pension will be reduced, (no that isn't a joke)

If you do happen to have a child (children ) tell them that you have parted from your wife-- take the child with you, go on single parent benefit---more money than the dole, rent assistance etc-also benefits in it for the child (pre schooling)  etc , you can get to go back to Thailand more often as its part of the agreement that she (ex) gets to see the child..... also her visiting you (visiting her child) should make a visa easier. I have a friend who has gone back to Perth like this----he said in his last mail that he found the CES (or whatever they are called now) was very helpful in this situation.

Great advice. AND I would recommend that you never tell them you are married to a Thai. If you are married, they will reduce your pension by about 25% and if your wife is of pension age they will reduce her pension by about 25%.  The fact that your wife is Thai and is not entitled to a pension (ever) does not compute to CLink - they will still reduce your pension.  

 

I have been through all this for many many years - and although I may get the numbers wrong - I am very confident the basics of what I say is right. For my sins I did business with Fed Govt Depts for over 30 years and CLink and ATO are the biggest - and I did my research before retiring. 

 

Sorry I have 'dominated' the topic this morning, but I am about to leave for the day and wanted to add one more thing.  Before any overly self-rightious folks go off about someone suggesting how to 'get way' with pension issues etc. I would like to tell you that you are seeing this all wrong.  The ATO tells everyone openly and fairly who to minimise tax - the argument that people cannot minimise their tax was lost years ago - everybody is legally entitled to minimise their tax by any legal means.  The age pension is an entitlement that people have the right to claim if they meet certain requirements - whether you agree with that is irrelevant (and not the issue).  The issue is that what those requirements are and exactly how can people ensure they will qualify in the future or now, is not provided openly and honestly by CLink (unlike ATO).  Therefore, it is both fair and reasonable for anyone to organise their own personal life such that they can maximise their ability to qualify for the pension. Likewise, not telling CLink that you are 'married' to a Thai is not wrong - because technically you are not married under any Law in any State of Australia - unless you go through the formal process through the Aust Embassy and Thai Government etc. BUT if you tell them you are married, they will immediately reduce your pension and good luck winning the appeal at AAT.

 

 

[Billy Bloggs]

2 hours ago, georgemandm said:

There you go you think you can rort the system.

 

Who said rort not me, it is a way of getting what I have earned over so many years, good on ya if ya dont want a pension, but I planned my retirement on what I had been told over 40 odd years, I dont want to go back and live in an over priced place to get what should be paid.

[Seizetheday]

2 minutes ago, georgemandm said:

You can disagree all you want but that is how it is .

so you are getting on here and telling me you was paying something like $200,000 in tax the years you was In business and you want the government to give you a hand out , give me a break if you were not that smart when you was in business to put money away for when you retire that is your problem not the governments 

Ok, I'll give you a break as you don't seem to understand my post. 

I didn't write that I would recieve the pension, I won't as I'm over the threshold.

There, understand now????

[louse1953]

On 8/26/2016 at 0:10 PM, brewsterbudgen said:

How long before the UK follows suit?

Why would you want a mob of geriatrics lobbing on your shores,clogging up the hospitals and roads and whinging all the time.

[louse1953]

On 8/26/2016 at 0:13 PM, yaagjon said:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but your friend should have enquired about this before. It is correct I understand.

 

Your friend can go for holidays up to 6 weeks overseas whilst living in Australia during that two year period, I could be wrong, but I believe there is no limit to the amount of holidays.

You are wrong.You can leave,for sure,but your time done is reset to zero.

[louse1953]

23 hours ago, Agent Sumo said:

But georgemandm says Australia is such a great place to live

Only if you have paid for your own house and have plenty of money.The OAP is survival money.

[louse1953]

23 hours ago, 1337markus said:

My Australian friend has retired here in Thailand, he is 66 years old, he has lived here the last 5 years, he has been refused a pension from the Australian government, they are telling him he has to live in Australia 2 full years before he is  eligible for his pension, he lived and worked in Australia for 43 years prior to him retiring, he had a telephone interview  this morning from Queensland 6.30 am 26/08/2016, he was told no chance, that is the law, he must come back and live in Australia for 2 years before he becomes eligible

Would like to hear from any Aussie expats on this matter, or anyone who has an opinion

 

 

Totally correct. I am much the same age lived here 10 years. Last time in Perth ( 2015) went to CentreLink who are the controlling body and everything you say is true. She also said its 2 years before you can apply after living in Australia and there is NO guarantee it will be approved. The pension is paid on a ratio of years worked in Australia and you have paid your ATO dues; example someone who works 30 years could get up to 100% pension; another who works 3 years maybe 5%.  Then the pension is 2 components; the second one is more about getting pensioner rates for travel and utilities in country when you fly out of Australia  it stops immediately ( no big deal). The money component was OK but now they also measure time overseas and there is a time that flags to stop the pension ( you need to check this she suggested 6 weeks) and on your return you are responsible to report and re activate it. So bottom line they have us snookered.

Wrong on most points mate.You don't have to have worked,only been available to work.You could have been on the rock and roll for 45 years,no problemo.There is no 5% because of timed worked.It drops to a basic level then stops going any lower.You could only get 5% because of the assets test.When you fly out it doesn't stop immediately but after 13 weeks,but that may have changed.They never stop the basic pension for time o/s only the allowances.Everybody i know has been approved once they have done their penance.

[F4UCorsair]

2 hours ago, Bob9 said:

You have the right to that opinion. But you claim it to be THE correct opinion, based upon some facts you provided.  There are facts you have not provided that put your claim to be correct in doubt.  I will not elaborate much to you - I am busy trying to give accurate answers to those asking positive questions.

The number one cost to Govt is HEALTH CARE - not just hospitals - medications and GPs and physio etc etc etc.  and most pensioners cost a LOT to maintain.  Not all go back to Aust when they are very old - many stay here and die here (and other countries). Even if they got the full pension, the difference between that and the savings to the Govt budget by not being there, is POSITIVE by a long way.  The pittance they would have paid in GST is insignificant in comparison to their health care costs to the Govt.   

 

 

I don't claim it to be THE correct opinion Bob.   It is MY opinion, no more and no less.

 

I agree that any GST and indirect taxes recovered from a pensioner are very small, but it's even less if the pension is spent out of the country!!  I don't think the government will have done the financial exercise on whether they are in front or behind on pensioners living out of the country and not sucking on medicare, or living in the country and sucking on medicare, so we'll never know.

 

On healthcare, Medicare brings in about $10 billion and pays out over $24 Billion, so you may well be right that it is their largest single expense.  

[georgemandm]

45 minutes ago, Billy Bloggs said:

Who said rort not me, it is a way of getting what I have earned over so many years, good on ya if ya dont want a pension, but I planned my retirement on what I had been told over 40 odd years, I dont want to go back and live in an over priced place to get what should be paid.

Don't you not get , if you don't plan for your retirement not my problem not the governments problem your problem .

you did not plan for your retirement ok , if you did you would not get on here and ya , ya like you do .

looks like if you want your pension you will have to go back for 2 years and you have no idea what you are saying.

and if you want to rort the  System  Like you want to hop you get caught and go to jail.

the  reason you don't want to go back Australia is because you not have the money to live there .

you sound like one of the 99% who come here and get rip by a thai hooker .

[georgemandm]

18 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

Only if you have paid for your own house and have plenty of money.The OAP is survival money.

It is a great place for me not care about f??? Wits that blow the lot on thai hookers in thailand.

and I have more then one home .

And I work hard for it .

can't handle the people who get on here about a pension , if you blow all your money on beer ,  gambling and going to thailand to f??? Thai hookers your problem not my problem not the Australia governments problem.

not complain when it turns to s??? for most of them here .

[louse1953]

22 hours ago, Old Croc said:

I'm interested in your last sentence.  I'm not an ex politician, but an ex public servant on the old Comsuper scheme. What, or where, is the ruling about  excluding old, pre 2004, pigs from the new tax rules.

For pollies only,anyone voted in after 2004 could only get 15% super,still way above the public,but below the excisting rules.the new ones knew the ruling coming in,but as soon as they were in, had a big whinge about it not being fair that they couldn't get the whole snout in the trough.

[F4UCorsair]

1 hour ago, Bob9 said:

Yep - a good start for those under 65+ who can afford/organise that.  Use a relative's address and keep bank accounts and licence lodge tax returns etc etc etc. Keep up your residency while holidaying in Thailand and move house every year or so - even stay in another country for a while. But, you will still need to show them (CLink Officers) that you have 'moved' back before you apply - and being there for 2 years before application means it is automatic. The longer you are away, the more they need to be convinced - that is why it is best to stay living there and be on holidays overseas (a lot). Not an option for all, but it can make the process go smoother. They will get your passport records when you apply - they will know how long you have been overseas and where. 

 

 

You're quite right, and government departments' computers are linked, and immigration records are available to Social Security, and vice versa, as are the Tax Office's etc.   Big Brother IS watching, closely.

 

I saw my accountant for submitting my tax returns a few weeks ago, took all my documentation, dividend printouts, spreadsheets, etc., and he already had the information direct from the Tax Office, who are fed it by the companies paying dividends.  My share dealings, buys and sells, were all there.  That's a time saving for me next year, no documentation required.

[louse1953]

22 hours ago, GreasyFingers said:

 

As those above have said he will not get the pension while not being "an Australian resident". I had only lived part time here for 2 years and was refused. Three appeals (there is a fourth), refused a requested face to face hearing in Australia, similar time phone hearing as quoted. Born there, 45 years of paying taxes, and still do, and they do not care. My pension would have been minimal, maybe $50 per fortnight, but just wanted to get on the system before they changed the rules again.

 

I know of another Aussie that had been living here for 5 years, went back 6 months before turning 65, got the dole until then and was given a full pension at 65.

 

If anyone is in a similar situation get back there to show you are a "resident" on your 65th birthday.

Of course he got the OAP,they can't deny that,but was it portable.I would say no until another 18 months.

[louse1953]

22 hours ago, georgemandm said:

You pay taxes to run the country not to get a pension.

you pay super to get money when you  retire and if you are not that smart to put your money in to super then you will get a hand out .

but the government do it like this because people have been ripping the  System off for years so that is why he will have to go back and sorry for your friend .

but people should not get on here and blame the Australia government for try to stop the ones who don't put in and take the money out after just 4 or 10 years of work in Australia.

So tell me george,how does going back for 2 years and getting paid more and clogging up the hospitals stop people ripping off the system.

[louse1953]

21 hours ago, F4UCorsair said:

The politicians super scheme, for those who were inside the tent pi$$ing out prior to 2004, is a totally different scheme, similar to the 'guaranteed multiple' scheme of private enterprise, but now rare there also. That allows worthless pieces of garbage like Gillard to be on $350,000 tax free, and Bronwyn Bishop on $250,000+, indexed for life.

 

I had a long discussion with a candidate in the recent federal election about the tax on superannuation proposals of the Libs, and he enlightened me, including the post 2004 provisions in the next para.

 

Post about 2004, politicians went onto the same superannuation plans as most workers, 9% contribution, and take your chances.  The information is available online.

 

I don't know anything about the public service super provisions.

 

I think Mark Latham, when he was labor leader, was instrumental in having the change to politicians' super made.

Same provisions my arse.You know your problem,you listened to a future pollie,tell you what you want to hear.Try 15%.

[louse1953]

20 hours ago, georgemandm said:

I agree with you 1 million % 

i had my hip replace 4 years ago I had private insurance the cost was $40,000 I paid $1,500 .

were in the world can you get that out side of a great place like Australia.

not having a going at thailand but if you get sick. Here God help you . 

Knee replacement here costs $3000 and no waiting.Cash,no insurance.

[louse1953]

20 hours ago, bazza40 said:

It depends. I've found dental stuff such as implants to be far cheaper than in Australia.

Bumrungrad is expensive.I have to have a check cystoscopy every six months. It's considerably cheaper for me to fly back to Australia for the procedure, where with private health insurance it costs nothing.

As georgemandm has noted, infection rates are higher in Thailand. Try visiting one of the toilets in a Thai public hospital, and you'll see why.

Yer joking,every Australian hospital is rife with golden staf and the other one i can't remember at the moment.My Dad caught it in there and it helped shortened his life.

[SaintLouisBlues]

11 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

Yer joking,every Australian hospital is rife with golden staf and the other one i can't remember at the moment.My Dad caught it in there and it helped shortened his life.

Yep, Australian hospitals, worst in the world; the only country where every hospital has golden staph. Give me Kabul Public every time

[louse1953]

17 hours ago, alofthailand said:

just live there with an address and bills but don't stay there. You do not have to present yourself at the police station every month do you? Be resident but travel extensively. Many brits return to UK and have a UK address to keep their NHS treatment

 

 You don't rekon us Ozzys are as creative as the Poms.In Aust,Immigration and Centrelink commuters are linked,not so in the UK.The govt know you are leaving before you have even left.

[louse1953]

6 hours ago, aussieinthailand said:

Bloody brilliant,,,!  

So why the stories "My mate can't get an Aussie pension unless he lives in OZ for 2 years first"?

Are people not being told about the access of portability pension? and therefor think they are being deigned the OZ pension?

The problem is most people have family's here and don't want to separate the family, or the cost to bringing family too OZ for the qualifying 2 years is cost preventative and not always approved by immigration. Why the HELL the government think they can dictate where a person lives to access their pension is offensive in the extreme!!!!!

Guess I have another read on Center link's web site.

You cannot be denied the OAP only the potability.I have to face this problem in a few years.65 and a half for me.The missus will fly in for 6 months and before she leaves will cook and freeze massive amounts of curries.

[bazza40]

5 hours ago, georgemandm said:

  If you think Melbourne is unliveable then you are one in 5 million because the rest of us love it so the numbers out way your way of thinking. Plus try and buy a home in Melbourne now most homes in the millions. That would say you are very , very wrong would it not about Melbourne.

so if you have no home back in Australia , would be because you are one who give it all up for thai pussy , you not understand do you,  thai pussy is great but I would not give up my whole life for it like you .

if you say you live well here it would mean you not live great so I would  rather live great then well .

i was not saying thai pussy not great get it I was saying f??? Wits give up their whole life to come here and lose the lot .

Homes costing in the millions is hardly a recommendation, is it?

I don't consider I've given up my whole life for Thai pussy. 80% of my assets are still in Australia, and that's where they are staying. I have, however, given up on crappy weather, road rage far worse than Thailand, morbidly obese women, and a nanny state which polices everything you do. Australian citizens do not realise they are living in a legal dictatorship.

My opinion differs from yours. I would appreciate it if you could express yours more coherently.

[evenstevens]

just a short time back, i misplaced my medicard,whilst back in sydney i popped  into medibank for a replacement and was immediatly given the flick, on not having a residentail address

have been living here in c/mai full time since 2001,first on the burnt out pension, then on the old age pension, they tried to kick me off my burnt out pension around 2003, but could not do it as when the major laws were passed they could not apply  it to me,as they gave me permission to be here ,they call us THE PRE 2003 GANG  so to speak

my finicaial advisor handled all this long running battle to keep my pension back in those days,and is now appealing to the ELEGILBILTY  board of on my  behalf to have my lost medicard replaced , as i have given the green light back in 2003 to keep it while i am living here, and have known that i have been living here since 2001 and have used thwe medicare card  on a number of ocassions for very minor medical assistance,since then, now the

64,000 doilar question is, will they replace my lost medicare card????? a curly one  E/S  thinks

any heads up but please only sensible replys, thks in advance

its thunderstorm  late arvo  to all

[bazza40]

6 hours ago, aussieinthailand said:

Head's up mydee,  I never claimed Higher education is  always a matter of luck, that would be why I used the word some of us,,, ok mate.

And some of us had to work a second night shift job to pay the bills so night school was not possible..

"so your assumptions are pretty offensive too"    BTW did you know that the word "too" is for,   ie;   A person is going "too" a place and not how you have used it...

Dammmm,  that night school education is a cracker.  But If ya can't dazzle em with brains baffle em with Bulls__t.

Sorry, you are wrong. The word "too" means in addition, as well, also, excessively. '"To"  is the opposite of from, implying movement in a direction. Example: There are too many posters on TV inclined to exaggerate.

Edited August 27, 2016 by bazza40
Example

[louse1953]

4 hours ago, Bob9 said:

Cant disagree - never easy to change rules that will cost the Govt. But, there have been many 'informed' challenges that have succeeded over the years in changing Govt rules and regulations.  It is usually done to correct thjngs done by the public servants (in this case CLink) to achieve the desired outcomes of the politicians.

Although the movie 'Castle' makes it look like a big thing, the Govt has been forced to change things - like the Tribunal arrangements (their rulings were declared invalid as they were not a Court).  But when they do change - they always do it 'quietly'.  

The CLink rules were changed to stop Greeks (and others) claiming the pension after having moved back to their homeland. They achieved that by stating you must be resident in Australia at the time you apply. The definition of 'resident' was later further extended to mean you couldn't come back for a month and apply, and then go back again to your homeland again and still get the age pension. Then even later the definition was extended to 2 years resident after returning - because many Greeks etc. came and stayed with their family for 3-6 months and then went back with the pension. And all through that time, through international discussions and agreements, the qualifying period was increased and increased. Now it is 40 years, but before that is was 35 and 30 and 20 and 10. 

The whole reason for all those changes, was to stop citizens and residents of another country going back 'home' after living working in Australia, and keeping their pension payments.  Fair enough.   But stopping Aussie men (mainly) who have retired early (before pension age) and are living overseas as 'guests' in another country, was not what it was about (as declared and internationally agreed). Fair enough if I have migrated to Thailand (etc), but I have not and cannot and am just a visitor who can be made to leave at any moment. I am a citizen/resident of only one country - Australia - and I can re-enter Australia at any time for any reason. I therefore still legally live there, because I have no legal right to live anywhere else in the world.  Every other country (those included in the international social security agreement and those who are not - like Thailand) do not allow me to enter and stay without being accepted as a guest (Visa + extensions to stay etc etc).

The reason this needs a High Court hearing is because when this type of argument is put before the SSAT (Tribunal) they only have the powers to determine if policy and procedures were followed - they cannot  force the Govt to change those policies and procedures unless a clear breach of law has occurred. And this would not be a full court case type hearing as in the movie - it would just be a panel hearing to establish if the Govt (as represented by CLink) has breached its own and any international obligations regarding the rights of a citizen to receive social security payments.

Any retired QCs out there?  I am speaking tongue in cheek of course .............. but if one is listening...............

 

"qualifying period was increased and increased. Now it is 40 years, but before that is was 35 and 30 and 20 and 10. "

ASFAIK the qualifying period is 35 year of being available to work after age 16.It then decreases on a pro rata basis.

[louse1953]

2 hours ago, georgemandm said:

It is a great place for me not care about f??? Wits that blow the lot on thai hookers in thailand.

and I have more then one home .

And I work hard for it .

can't handle the people who get on here about a pension , if you blow all your money on beer ,  gambling and going to thailand to f??? Thai hookers your problem not my problem not the Australia governments problem.

not complain when it turns to s??? for most of them here .

Well luckily for all of us  george we can do it all if you are creative.Sounds like you wasted your life working.I'm here for a good time,not a long time.Growing old disgracefully at the govts expense.

[bazza40]

1 hour ago, evenstevens said:

just a short time back, i misplaced my medicard,whilst back in sydney i popped  into medibank for a replacement and was immediatly given the flick, on not having a residentail address

have been living here in c/mai full time since 2001,first on the burnt out pension, then on the old age pension, they tried to kick me off my burnt out pension around 2003, but could not do it as when the major laws were passed they could not apply  it to me,as they gave me permission to be here ,they call us THE PRE 2003 GANG  so to speak

my finicaial advisor handled all this long running battle to keep my pension back in those days,and is now appealing to the ELEGILBILTY  board of on my  behalf to have my lost medicard replaced , as i have given the green light back in 2003 to keep it while i am living here, and have known that i have been living here since 2001 and have used thwe medicare card  on a number of ocassions for very minor medical assistance,since then, now the

64,000 doilar question is, will they replace my lost medicare card????? a curly one  E/S  thinks

any heads up but please only sensible replys, thks in advance

its thunderstorm  late arvo  to all

I believe the expiry of Medicare is 5 years. That is, the card has gone unused for five years. Provided you are within that timeframe, you should be able to get it replaced. I'm not saying you won't have some paperwork hoops to jump through.

[Old Croc]

I'm 68, but have never applied for the OAP. I would only get a partial pension, if any, as I would possibly fail the income test.  Immaterial anyway, because I'm not going to sit in Australia for two years to make the small amount I might receive, portable.

I live on my Comsuper pension and other investments. I'm very happy to have nothing to do with Centrelink and am independent of Medicare even though I help pay for it's upkeep..

When I came into this thread I thought the current discussion was about ATO's new tax rates for people they deem to be non-residents (Tax at 32.5% for Australian sourced income).  Several accountants have told me that, if I want to spend my retirement overseas, I would have to pay this rate on my work superannuation pension. This was gained through 30+ years working for the country in, at times, a very dangerous environment.  

I consider it to be grossly unfair that they want to take nearly a third of my work  pension in taxes while the OAP is untaxed  and can become portable. I've closely perused the Australian-Thai tax agreement and it specifies that my type of pension must come under the Australian tax regime even though I am classified as a non-resident. 

If any posters have any input on situations like mine I would be happy to hear from you.

 

Incidentally, in reference to some earlier posts, I had two hip replacements in Australia and every cent was covered by my private health supplier.

[georgemandm]

2 hours ago, louse1953 said:

So tell me george,how does going back for 2 years and getting paid more and clogging up the hospitals stop people ripping off the system.

Don't ask me ask the government I not care I not get the hand outs , I have to much from working very hard and thinking about my future.

if I had it my way I would make you all stay there for 5 years and put the money in to Australia not thailand.

get this and not forget it ok , you pay tax to run the country not to get a pension sorry but that is how it is now , so people have to live with it .

like I tell my young friends if you can't buy more then one home , put your money in to a good super fund for when you  retire .

but most people like to spend it and not care about the future.

not me .

[georgemandm]

54 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

Well luckily for all of us  george we can do it all if you are creative.Sounds like you wasted your life working.I'm here for a good time,not a long time.Growing old disgracefully at the govts expense.

Yes I am very lucky thank you .

i think my life is a lot better then your life in thailand, you would have f??? All back home I can see that .

i am not that stupid to give my life savers to a thai hooker like most of them in thailand.

and one more thing if the government changed it all next year you would not be living here at the governments expenses would you but I can so who is smarter me or you , not you that is for sure you can have thailand I give it to you I am not that stupid to live here full time like you .

if you think you are lucky to live in thailand good on you , but let's see if you get sick how much you will pay out to get well S??? Loads .

i would say you live on a  budget here like a poor thai .

i can  travel the world if I like because I worked hard and you are so wrong I wasted my life working , not at all I loved working and living my life in Australia would not give it up for the world.

I am a smart one made my  tenets pay for all my homes not like you .

your just  jealous I can go anywhere I want to and not report to the government like you .