Burkini ban suspended by top French court

[Naam]

16 minutes ago, Anthony5 said:

The council TEMPORARILY suspended the ban

 

note: that France's highest administrative court is called "conseil d'état" does not justify using intentionally and repeatedly the diminutive and misleading english expression "council". mais alors...

[7by7]

3 minutes ago, Naam said:

 

note: that France's highest administrative court is called "conseil d'état" does not justify using intentionally and repeatedly the diminutive and misleading english expression "council". mais alors...

 

Indeed, and I'm sure the Académie française would be appalled that someone who says they are defending French culture keeps on using the English word!

[Naam]

5 hours ago, Anthony5 said:

There are bigots and there are Muslim huggers on this forum.

they are drawn to this forum by comments from hypocritical islamophobic bigots

[7by7]

4 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

A burkinin doesn't cover the face so it does not conceal identity. There are already laws in place in France that prohibit covering the face in public.

 

4 hours ago, Anthony5 said:

 

And it also doesn't enforce someones religious identity upon others?

 

See you're desperate, as you resort to selective reading and responding.

 

Welcome to my ignore list.

 

A burkini enforces the wearers religious identity upon others in the same way as

 

 

 

 

 

 

Etc., etc., none of which are Muslim.

 

Would you ban all these as well?

 

Not all the above photos come from France. But if one wants to ban certain forms of dress because they 'enforce' the wearers religious identity upon others, then they must want such a ban to apply to all religions everywhere.

 

Edit; I tried to include a pictures of Haredi Jews as well as the above, but for some reason they wont post! So after three attempts I've given up.

Edited August 28, 2016 by 7by7

[Anthony5]

19 minutes ago, Naam said:

 

note: that France's highest administrative court is called "conseil d'état" does not justify using intentionally and repeatedly the diminutive and misleading english expression "council". mais alors...

 

14 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

Indeed, and I'm sure the Académie française would be appalled that someone who says they are defending French culture keeps on using the English word!

 

 

I never claimed to be defending French culture, to me this burkini thing goes much further than French borders, and since I'm not a French nor English native I just parroted the word council used several times by a native English speaker in this thread, who now jumps on the the cart as he sees a chance to show his superiority.

[Naam]

1 minute ago, Anthony5 said:

I never claimed to be defending French culture, to me this burkini thing goes much further than French borders, and since I'm not a French nor English native I just parroted the word council used several times by a native English speaker in this thread, who now jumps on the the cart as he sees a chance to show his superiority.

apology accepted

[Calach]

4 hours ago, Anthony5 said:

 

And it also doesn't enforce someones religious identity upon others?

 

See you're desperate, as you resort to selective reading and responding.

 

Welcome to my ignore list.

 

Free minds don't feel constrained or "enforced" by others' identity display. Only besieged minds do, and their opinion should be disregarded. 

Edited August 28, 2016 by Calach

[Anthony5]

32 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

 

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.  Here is what the article said:

"The court said the ban 'seriously, and clearly illegally, breached the fundamental freedoms to come and go, the freedom of beliefs and individual freedom.'"

Nothing there at all about a temporary suspension because there is no law. Absolutely nothing.

 

May be you have another OP as me, but this is what I read in the one on my screen.

 

The ruling by the State Council in Paris is a temporary one which only applies to the town. A permanent ruling on whether or not to ban the burkini from public view in France is expected to be made in a few months.

 

Also take notice that they use the word COUNCIL, so trying to ridicule me for using the word the OP uses just shows the desperation from the Muslim huggers here.

[swanny321]

6 minutes ago, Calach said:

 

Free minds don't feel constrained or "enforced" by others' identity display. Only besieged minds do, and their opinion should be disregarded. 

 

  I think it's a smokescreen b

On 27/08/2016 at 6:53 AM, ClutchClark said:

 

I think this ban was the essence of french thinking. 

 

And I do not mean that in a bad way at all. 

 

They are trying to deal with a grieving process against a threat they had not anticipated. Ofcourse, some decisions will be rash but as we have just seen, these will be moderated. Their democracy is a living and breathing thing. 

 

just my 2 cents  ;-)

I wonder how 'culturally enriched the Saudis would feel if a woman decided to wear a thongkini on the beach at Jeddah!?

[simple1]

5 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

The hammer being bigotry.

 

Plus completely contradicting his comment " I am American. My right to cast judgement ends at my shores".

[GuestHouse]

36 minutes ago, swanny321 said:

 

  I think it's a smokescreen b

I wonder how 'culturally enriched the Saudis would feel if a woman decided to wear a thongkini on the beach at Jeddah!?

 

On the basis of the number of 'lingerie' stores in Jeddah selling 'full on webbing' I'd be reluctant to say I was certain of the answer.

[GuestHouse]

56 minutes ago, Anthony5 said:

 

May be you have another OP as me, but this is what I read in the one on my screen.

 

The ruling by the State Council in Paris is a temporary one which only applies to the town. A permanent ruling on whether or not to ban the burkini from public view in France is expected to be made in a few months.

 

Also take notice that they use the word COUNCIL, so trying to ridicule me for using the word the OP uses just shows the desperation from the Muslim huggers here.

 

I've already explained to you earlier the Conseiller d'État is not empowered to make laws.

Your claim that regarding ruling on a permanent ban is wishfull thinking. The Conseiller d'État only considers the acts of state representatives and institutions with respect to the law.

 

Your objection to the official title of the Conseiller d'État rather than the Anglicised (and imprecise) 'Council' is perplexing given your claims about the defence of French culture.

 

It may be the term the OP uses, but the correct term has been provided and if you open your mind you could learn, grow and develop.

 

 

Edited August 28, 2016 by GuestHouse

[swanny321]

29 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

 

On the basis of the number of 'lingerie' stores in Jeddah selling 'full on webbing' I'd be reluctant to say I was certain of the answer.

 

  Well, I haven't visited in a while; used to camp at half moon bay, loved it, though I can't imagine it's since begun to rival Bondi during the nude Olympics!

Edited August 28, 2016 by swanny321
editing

[Slip]

Oh dear.  Intolerance is getting a bit of a flogging on this thread at least.

[swanny321]

7 minutes ago, Slip said:

Oh dear.  Intolerance is getting a bit of a flogging on this thread at least.

 

  What we considers tolerance; others consider weakness!

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.

[Anthony5]

2 hours ago, GuestHouse said:

 

I've already explained to you earlier the Conseiller d'État is not empowered to make laws.

Your claim that regarding ruling on a permanent ban is wishfull thinking. The Conseiller d'État only considers the acts of state representatives and institutions with respect to the law.

 

Your objection to the official title of the Conseiller d'État rather than the Anglicised (and imprecise) 'Council' is perplexing given your claims about the defence of French culture.

 

It may be the term the OP uses, but the correct term has been provided and if you open your mind you could learn, grow and develop.

 

 

 

Now let me guess who else used that term council of state, and at the same time calls other ignorant. Wait it is YOU. I think there are a few more posts where you used, but I can't be bothered to reply anymore to a pedant who continuously put his own foot in his mouth.

I suggest you go see a doctor for your superiority complex, because it is really embarrassing.

 

18 hours ago, GuestHouse said:

 

I asked you if you know what you are talking about, I even asked you if you really know what you are talking about. 

 

I then gave you a heavy clue when I asked you "Do you know on what basis the Conseiller d'État makes its rulings"

 

You've now come back and confirmed that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. 

 

Here's the answer:

 

The  Conseiller d'État is an administrative court, it only examines if the actions of the state or the actions of a state official are compliant with the law. The Conseiller d'État does not make the law, it adjudicates on the application of the law. 

 

The case examined by the Conseiller d'État was not should Burqinis be banned, but was the Mayor of Nice acting legally when he banned Burqinis. 

 

The council of state is not empowered to make a new law banning Burqinis and will not rule Burqinis should be banned - Making laws is not what the Conseiller d'État is established to do.

 

Go educate yourself before posting more nonsense on stuff you have absolutely no idea about. 

 

[Thorgal]

French law of 1905 made it clear to separate the State (as republic) from any religion.

In such way that the State will never interfere with religious matters. The religion doesn't exist, in terms of law.

The author was Aristide Briand, and wrote the paragraph 1, The Principles, under article 2.

Quote from link :

"Article 2 states that "The Republic does not recognize, pay, or subsidize any religious sect. Accordingly, from 1 January following the enactment of this law, will be removed from state budgets, departments and municipalities, all expenses related to the exercise of religion."Exceptions are ennumerated regarding "schools, colleges, schools, hospitals, asylums and prisons" so as "to ensure the free exercise of religion in public institutions".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1905_French_law_on_the_Separation_of_the_Churches_and_the_State



Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

[Naam]

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

I tried to include a pictures of Haredi Jews as well as the above, but for some reason they wont post!

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Haredi+Jews&lr=&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi4js6sjOTOAhXBKY8KHSnbAc8Q_AUICCgB&biw=853&bih=525&dpr=1.5#imgdii=yWKFRJgwf-mq_M%3A%3ByWKFRJgwf-mq_M%3A%3BPQCtjGWsjul6yM%3A&imgrc=yWKFRJgwf-mq_M%3A

[ikbenhet]

On 8/27/2016 at 7:18 AM, Class C said:

 

You could make a good case for arguing that France is inciting the whole situation by allowing ‘charlie hebdo’ cartoons that are totally disrespectful. 

 

Where is the logic in fanning the flames ?

 

charlie hebdo cartoons
 

Are you serious? Expressing your freedom is fanning the flames?

[GuestHouse]

1 hour ago, Anthony5 said:

 

Now let me guess who else used that term council of state, and at the same time calls other ignorant. Wait it is YOU. I think there are a few more posts where you used, but I can't be bothered to reply anymore to a pedant who continuously put his own foot in his mouth.

I suggest you go see a doctor for your superiority complex, because it is really embarrassing.

 

 

 

I didn't call you on your ignorance for the use of the term Council instead of the correct term  Conseiller d'État but yes you are entirely correct I did mix the terms up myself. 

 

I've called you on your ignorance because you are clearly ignorant of the duties and responsibilities of the Conseiller d'État or indeed of a number of very basic legal mechanisms.

 

I have not objected to you using the term Council rather than the correct term Conseiller d'État, rather I have noted it as perplexing given your defense of French culture.

 

If you wish to challenge any of the legal or constitutional corrections to uniformed points you have made please do so, I'd be glad to hear your arguments.

 

Edited August 28, 2016 by GuestHouse

[GuestHouse]

3 hours ago, swanny321 said:

 

  What we considers tolerance; others consider weakness!

 

 

Racist and xenophobic bigots of all shades object to tolerance for one very good reason. 

 

It is the antithesis of the hatred, mistrust and fear on which they build their racism, xenophobia and bigotry. 

 

It is far from weakness to understand this and trust in this as the best defence against all racism, xenophobia and bigotry. 

 

Tolerance is the basis of pluralism and democracy and needs no support from racism, xenophobia or bigotry. 

 

 

[Anthony5]

5 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

 

I didn't call you on your ignorance for the use of the term Council instead of the correct term  Conseiller d'État but yes you are entirely correct I did mix the terms up myself. 

 

I've called you on your ignorance because you are clearly ignorant of the duties and responsibilities of the Conseiller d'État or indeed of a number of very basic legal mechanisms.

 

I have not objected to you using the term Council rather than the correct term Conseiller d'État, rather I have noted it as perplexing given your defense of French culture.

 

If you wish to challenge any of the legal or constitutional corrections to uniformed points you have made please do so, I'd be glad to hear your arguments.

 

 

Putting that foot in your mouth once again? You didn't call me out on the use of the term council, so what is this, must be your alter ego who posted it.

 

Your objection to the official title of the Conseiller d'État rather than the Anglicised (and imprecise) 'Council' is perplexing given your claims about the defence of French culture.

 

I have posted 11 posts ago already that I don't defend French culture, but that the burkini case goes much further than French borders for me, nothing to do with culture at all.

 

I also posted SEVERAL times already that I clearly understand that the Conseiller d'État only SUSPENDED the ban TEMPORARILY since there is no law that forbids the wearing of burkinis YET. So also that repeated argument of you gets pretty tiresome.

 

From the OP :

 

A

permanent ruling on whether or not to ban the burkini from public view in France is expected to be made in a few months.

And it is to see if in a few months there isn't yet a law on the ban of burkinis, because that will set the grounds for the PERMANENT ruling. I take it that your understand the difference between temporary and permanent, of which I have my doubts giving your childish comments.

 

But your pedant nature again got the better half of you again so you persisted on selective reading.

 

What you also don't seem to grasp is that the majority of the French government AND French population is FOR a ban, and that Sarkozy, who has a good chance of becoming French president again early 2017, has made it clear that under his presidency the ban WILL go through.

 

Now please stop stalking me with over and over again the same pedant comments, which I refuted long time ago already.

 

Over and out with you.

 

 

[GuestHouse]

2 minutes ago, Anthony5 said:

 

Putting that foot in your mouth once again? You didn't call me out on the use of the term council, so what is this, must be your alter ego who posted it.

 

"Your objection to the official title of the Conseiller d'État rather than the Anglicised (and imprecise) 'Council' is perplexing given your claims about the defence of French culture".

 

 

Now what was it that I actually did say?

 

"I didn't call you on your ignorance for the use of the term Council instead of the correct term  Conseiller d'État but yes you are entirely correct I did mix the terms up myself.......

 

I have not objected to you using the term Council rather than the correct term Conseiller d'État, rather I have noted it as perplexing given your defense of French culture." 

 

No alter ego, simply challenging unsubstantiated claims you have made and address directly to me. (So since I am responding to your comments directed to me, no stalking either).

 

-----

And did you notice, I admitted the mistake I made when you pointed it out to me. I can do that. Can you?

 

[Anthony5]

5 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

 

Now what was it that I actually did say?

 

"I didn't call you on your ignorance for the use of the term Council instead of the correct term  Conseiller d'État but yes you are entirely correct I did mix the terms up myself.......

 

I have not objected to you using the term Council rather than the correct term Conseiller d'État, rather I have noted it as perplexing given your defense of French culture." 

 

No alter ego, simply challenging unsubstantiated claims you have made and address directly to me. (So since I am responding to your comments directed to me, no stalking either).

 

-----

And did you notice, I admitted the mistake I made when you pointed it out to me. I can do that. Can you?

 

 

I have never said anything about defending French culture, so please point out where I posted that, or shut up.

 

If my my misuse of the English or French language is a torn in you eye, I suggest we continue the discussion in my native language, let's see how far you get with that one

 

 

[GuestHouse]

33 minutes ago, Anthony5 said:

 

I have never said anything about defending French culture, so please point out where I posted that, or shut up.

 

If my my misuse of the English or French language is a torn in you eye, I suggest we continue the discussion in my native language, let's see how far you get with that one

 

 

 

So please tell us what it is you are defending with your comparisons between France and Saudi Arabia/Muslim countries, the French and the Immigrants?

 

[7by7]

1 hour ago, Anthony5 said:

 

If my my misuse of the English or French language is a torn in you eye, I suggest we continue the discussion in my native language, let's see how far you get with that one

 

 

 

Despite your making claims about your home country you have refused when asked to say where that is; so I, for one, would be interested to know what your native language is.

 

Who knows, I may be able to continue discussions with you in that language; if it weren't for one obstacle, the forum rules.

Quote

English is the only acceptable language anywhere on ThaiVisa including Classifieds, except within the Thai language forum, where of course using Thai is allowed.

 

[JetsetBkk]

4 hours ago, Anthony5 said:

 

I have never said anything about defending French culture, so please point out where I posted that, or shut up.

 

If my my misuse of the English or French language is a torn in you eye, I suggest we continue the discussion in my native language, let's see how far you get with that one

 

 

 

3 hours ago, GuestHouse said:

 

So please tell us what it is you are defending with your comparisons between France and Saudi Arabia/Muslim countries, the French and the Immigrants?

 

 

For God's sake, get a room you two.

 

[swanny321]

8 hours ago, GuestHouse said:

 

 

Racist and xenophobic bigots of all shades object to tolerance for one very good reason. 

 

It is the antithesis of the hatred, mistrust and fear on which they build their racism, xenophobia and bigotry. 

 

It is far from weakness to understand this and trust in this as the best defence against all racism, xenophobia and bigotry. 

 

Tolerance is the basis of pluralism and democracy and needs no support from racism, xenophobia or bigotry. 

 

 

 

  You say that like racism, xenophobia and bigotry are the worst things ever when all three could be seen as prejudices

of people who'd never dream of discriminating.Some are racist against their own skin tone; some xenophobes hate

everyone equally and as for bigots...perhaps they're American!

[Oxx]

10 hours ago, GuestHouse said:

Racist and xenophobic bigots of all shades object to tolerance for one very good reason. 

 

A ridiculous generalisation.

 

Many perceived as "racist" by the politically correct brigade are actually proud of their country and its heritage, and see that being eroded by mass immigration of people from third world countries; they object to tolerance simply because the "tolerance" of the elite has allowed millions of outsiders to come and live in their countries, changing the country permanently, and not always for the better.  The politicians and bureaucrats have betrayed the original peoples of their countries, acting without the peoples' consent, so creating the rise in "racism".

 

Many such "racists" have no problem with people of any skin colour or religious belief - provide the people concerned keep to their own country, where they can be visited as a curiosity whilst on holiday.