Burkini ban suspended by top French court

[Steely Dan]

1 hour ago, NongKhaiKid said:

I sincerely hope whoever is in charge of these things allows me to live until 2022 and the World Cup in Qatar  so I can marvel at the amount of restrictions the authorities there will warn fans from all over the world apply and WILL BE enforced.

It's a funny thing, but whilst western liberals bristle with indignation about intolerant or reactionary viewpoints within their nations they are often blind to the same within other nations. I guess many Countries are hoping this item fades from the news quickly in case the spotlight is turned on them.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Steely Dan
Grammar

[craigt3365]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Clearly you are completely and utterly ignorant of the history of Islam.  Let's just say that when Europe was in its dark ages, the Islamic world was by far the most civilized portion of the globe. (With China running a close second) Literature and the sciences flourished. Islam was certainly far more tolerant of Christians and Jews than the Christianity was of Muslims and Jews.

I was just in Uzbekistan.  Amazing the contributions they made to the world during their time.  Algebra came from them, the definitive book of medicine for a long time was from there, and many stars and moons are named after Muslims.  Seems they've lost their way lately though...

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/craig-considine/overcoming-historical-amnesia_b_4135868.html

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, ClutchClark said:

 

I have read all those same attributes and I am left with only one question:  What happened?

Are you asking why they declined or why the current version of Islam.?

The latter question can be answered this way: God apparently liked the version of Islam practiced by a small lunatic sect located in the Arabian Peninsula so much that he gave them huge deposits of easily extracted petroleum.  They used a lot of the cash generated by the sale of said resource to proselytize. 

[ilostmypassword]

5 minutes ago, Steely Dan said:

It's a funny thing, but whilst western liberals bristle with indignation about intolerant or reactionary viewpoints within their nations they are often blind to the same within other nations. I guess many Countries are hoping this item fades from the news quickly in case the spotlight is turned on them.

Oh, so it's western liberals who support nations like Saudi Arabia, is it?  I know some people keep on promoting the idea of an Israeli-Saudi alliance. And you know what, I, for one, believe that it's true.

[thaihome]

Interesting New Yorker article on the immigrant integration in France and the cultural issues with it. (bit dated from May this year,but seemed to be pertinent to the way the discussion is going).

TH 

 

 

...The French demographer Patrick Simon has shown that, in terms of language adoption and educational attainment over generations, the process of integration in France is actually quite healthy. At the same time, he has found that while younger generations of immigrant origin feel that they are French, they also feel that the French do not view them as such. “We are seeing today the crystallization of otherness,” Simon told Le Monde. “The difficulties of integration do not arise from the social practices of immigrants, who in the end are quite open, but from a society that refuses to integrate certain groups on a double criteria: religion (Islam) and skin color of non-European origin—‘visible’ minorities.”

In other words, the latest policy and rhetorical campaigns are injurious to the ability of society to function at best, and perhaps a factor in the disenfranchisement of some young people at worst. As the country prepares for a contentious Presidential election next year, in which the National Front is certain to play a prominent role, a section of the intellectual class, with Badinter at its helm, and the mainstream political class will undoubtedly be decrying the divisiveness of the far right. They might look, first, at their own actions and words...

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-french-culture-wars-continue

[derator01]

Several (more) off topic posts have been removed from view.  Please stick to the topic.

[sambum]

7 hours ago, useronthenet said:

Secular behavior is something which hasn't gone well with many in the EU. Muslims have become a threat to many societies, due to the fact they refuse to integrate with their hosting country, instead choosing to go along their own path which is not compatible with the general population.  Therefore given this, one has to ask, why would they choose to live in such countries given their are so many others willing to entertain this belief and ideology?

 

Good post! Especially  "they refuse to integrate with their hosting country"

 

That in IMHO is one of the main problems.  

 

[stander]

1 hour ago, GuestHouse said:

 

No towel. No bag. No belongings. Police near-by Photographer ready ..... and cue global lefty outrage.

 

 

[GuestHouse]

6 minutes ago, stander said:

No towel. No bag. No belongings. Police near-by Photographer ready ..... and cue global lefty outrage.

 

 

 

I went to the beach this morning - I didn't take a bag, a towel or any belongings with me. 

 

....

 

Nice to see the police have been relieved of their duty of harassing people relaxing on the beach. 

[rijit]

The burkini is not about a dress choice, it’s about  a warped theology, which is nothing more than medieval clerical opinion with its 7th Century barbarism.

What absolute biggoted nonsensense . So on that theory perhaps rhey should ban roman catholic nuns

[ClutchClark]

5 minutes ago, GuestHouse said:

 

I went to the beach this morning - I didn't take a bag, a towel or any belongings with me. 

 

....

 

Nice to see the police have been relieved of their duty of harassing people relaxing on the beach. 

 

I am sure nobody is happier  the ban has been rescinded than the police officers who were required to enforce it or risk disciplinary action. 

[stander]

The overturning of the ban is only in one region out of the 31 regions and the mayors of those regions are going to uphold the ban.

 

Also Norway's right-wing Progress Party has called for full-body swimsuit to be outlawed

Politician claims that French towns were ;correct' to introduce a ban.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/burkini-ban-norway-france-progress-party-right-wing-islam-swimwear-muslims-a7211271.html

[ilostmypassword]

7 minutes ago, stander said:

The overturning of the ban is only in one region out of the 31 regions and the mayors of those regions are going to uphold the ban.

 

Also Norway's right-wing Progress Party has called for full-body swimsuit to be outlawed

Politician claims that French towns were ;correct' to introduce a ban.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/burkini-ban-norway-france-progress-party-right-wing-islam-swimwear-muslims-a7211271.html

And virtually everyone who has studied the ruling says that it means the other ordinances will be struck down as well.

[stander]

Tolerance for the intolerant in France has ran it's course. People are ready to take back their Secular, Non-Islamic lives.

[GuestHouse]

1 minute ago, stander said:

Tolerance for the intolerant in France has ran it's course. People are ready to take back their Secular, Non-Islamic lives.

 

The Council of State disagree with you.

 

Since they have overruled the ban on the Burqini at the beach in Nice do you now support the rule of law and the right of women to wear a Burqini to the beach at Nice?

[GuestHouse]

4 minutes ago, stander said:

The fact that more Muslims protest against a French burkini ban, than against terrorism, says a lot about them.

 

 

 

Since you have stated that more "Muslims protest against a French burkini ban, than against terrorism" you will of course be able to demonstrate the validity of your claim with some verifiable data?

 

Over to you, you made the statement - provide the data that demonstrates it to be true.

 

 

[Calach]

 

4 minutes ago, stander said:

The fact that more Muslims protest against a French burkini ban, than against terrorism, says a lot about them.

 

Using falsehood and paralogism with such little restrain, indeed you can make anything say whatever you want. Which you do.  

[ilostmypassword]

20 minutes ago, stander said:

Tolerance for the intolerant in France has ran it's course. People are ready to take back their Secular, Non-Islamic lives.

Does that mean we don't be seeing you at the mosque anymore?

[stander]

Prominent Muslims have suddenly become feminists after the Burkini ban.  Never mind Female Genital Mutilation , honor killings, forced marriage and Sharia.

[stander]

4 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Clearly you are completely and utterly ignorant of the history of Islam.  Let's just say that when Europe was in its dark ages, the Islamic world was by far the most civilized portion of the globe. (With China running a close second) Literature and the sciences flourished. Islam was certainly far more tolerant of Christians and Jews than the Christianity was of Muslims and Jews.

Dark Age achievements undoubted. But since then?"

 

[GuestHouse]

6 minutes ago, stander said:

Prominent Muslims have suddenly become feminists after the Burkini ban.  Never mind Female Genital Mutilation , honor killings, forced marriage and Sharia.

 

I do have some sympathy for you stander, putting aside your inability to respond to direct questions regarding statements you make, I feel you deserve some sympathy for having been let down by the French in your expectation that they would fight a war for you. 

 

 

[7by7]

10 minutes ago, stander said:

Prominent Muslims have suddenly become feminists after the Burkini ban.  Never mind Female Genital Mutilation , honor killings, forced marriage and Sharia.

All rightly condemned by prominent Muslims.

 

Except Sharia law, which they may want to live by in their daily lives, just as Jews and others want to live by their religious laws, but they do not want to impose on the rest of us.

 

Those who have tried to impose Sharia law on non Muslims in European countries have been condemned by other Muslims, arrested, often after being reported to the police by the local Muslim residents, and dealt with by the courts. In the UK this has usually meant a custodial sentence.

[Oxx]

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

Those who have tried to impose Sharia law on non Muslims in European countries have been condemned by other Muslims, arrested, often after being reported to the police by the local Muslim residents, and dealt with by the courts. In the UK this has usually meant a custodial sentence.

 

So how come schools, hospitals, prisons, supermarkets in the UK serve halal meat (often without labelling) and increasingly are not serving pork? Where are the Moslems condemning this imposition of Sharia upon non-Moslems?

[stander]

There are bigger issues than the burkini, the lies that politicians keep telling us about the wisdom/success of their policies of immigration and integration.

 

The next attack in France or Germany will probably not come from a lady on the beach wearing a burkini, but it is more likely to come from someone from the Islamic culture who has entered unchecked and un-vetted.

[7by7]

9 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

So how come schools, hospitals, prisons, supermarkets in the UK serve halal meat (often without labelling) and increasingly are not serving pork? Where are the Moslems condemning this imposition of Sharia upon non-Moslems?

For the same reason they serve kosher food, vegetarian food, vegan food etc.; choice.

 

I did some research for a post in another topic on school meals. The only state school's I could find which did not serve any pork were Jewish ones. Give us some examples of other state schools which don't serve pork.

 

My brother was in hospital overnight a couple of months ago; his dinner menu had pork sausages on it and I bought a ham sandwich from one of the vending machines when I visited him. Give us some examples of hospitals which don't serve pork.

 

Every supermarket sells pork; except kosher and halal only ones. Give us some examples of ones which don't.

 

I don't have your experience of prison food; but I expect it's the same as hospitals and schools.

 

Due to the fact that halal allows use of the whole animal, but kosher only certain parts of it, you are far more liley to buy unlabelled kosher meat than unlabelled halal meat.

 

This issue has been discussed at length several times in this topic.

[ilostmypassword]

In fact, in France face veils are banned in public places.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ban_on_face_covering

[stander]

The question of whether the burkini should be banned or not lies low down my list of concerns. I don't care if it's "hate speech" I don't care if sounds racist - we must destroy the Leftist/Muslim/immigrant alliance's hold on our nation’s political narrative. It is unsustainable

[7by7]

16 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

In fact, in France face veils are banned in public places.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ban_on_face_covering

 

In the UK those who wear them have to remove them for their photographs on official documents such as passports and driving licences.

 

They also must remove them when those documents are being used for identification purposes, such as passing through UK immigration or taking a driving test.

[GuestHouse]

1 hour ago, stander said:

The question of whether the burkini should be banned or not lies low down my list of concerns. I don't care if it's "hate speech" I don't care if sounds racist - we must destroy the Leftist/Muslim/immigrant alliance's hold on our nation’s political narrative. It is unsustainable

 

Of course its unsustainable, it doesn't exist.

 

It's like almost ever claim you ever make here on TVF, its never backed up with facts and when you are asked to present a basis for the statement you ignore the request. 

[Caps]

8 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

In the UK those who wear them have to remove them for their photographs on official documents such as passports and driving licences.

 

They also must remove them when those documents are being used for identification purposes, such as passing through UK immigration or taking a driving test.

and so they should