How to set up my wife as a sole trader

[sotonfarang]

We are looking to set up a local estate agency selling property, starting out as a sole trader in my wife`s name.

If business goes well then I would start to help her out, thus requiring a work permit.

 

firstly, how do we get her set up as a sole trader?

 

secondly, is it then possible for me later on to be ,effectively, employed by her with no other staff?

 

thirdly, would she need to provide evidence of a proper office, or can she use her home address?

 

lastly who and how does she contact to register as a sole trader?

 

thanks

 

 

 

[BritTim]

The very fact that you are asking these questions is evidence that you have little chance of doing this successfully yourself. The process is not straightforward. Many lawyers offer their services in navigating you through the bureaucracy. Prices are generally pretty low, especially if the lawyer speaks little English. Note that there are ongoing reporting requirements, especially if you want to be established as a limited liability entity. The lawyer can help you with this also.

[bark]

I agree with Tim. Get a lawyer. And you cannot own a company and have only one employee.

And if you think it is only 3-4 question; you are in for a wake up call.

Also you need to pay taxes on the profit, same as any other business.

[dotpoom]

Whenever I have property for sale I get calls from people telling me they have a prospective client. I suspect they are trolling through the Ad's and then looking for a customer that fits the bill.

   I also see people writing down the details of properties for sale from notice boards, seen my own Agent doing this.

[Peterw42]

I dont think the concept of Sole trader even exsists, A large proportion of thais fly under the radar so far a tax and tax returns, business registration etc. My wife has a couple of shops, market stalls etc and has never done a tax return in her life. She tells me 711 pays tax, not normal Thai people, unless you work for a bank etc. There are lots of Thais selling real estate via facebook, line, Kaidee. They list property for sale by other agents, split the commission with the other agent. I dont think there is such a thing as a licensesd agent, 

[sotonfarang]

well, some harsh comments there and also some helpful ones, any input is good input but seeing as you dont know me or my wife some of these were uncalled for so i`ll ignore the rude ones for now.

 

ok so it apparently is possible for a thai to run a company and therefore i`ll investigate further, was just after a bit of friendly advice not ridicule.

 

[bluesofa]

15 hours ago, dotpoom said:

Whenever I have property for sale I get calls from people telling me they have a prospective client. I suspect they are trolling through the Ad's and then looking for a customer that fits the bill.

   I also see people writing down the details of properties for sale from notice boards, seen my own Agent doing this.

 

My wife sells property too - only to the Thai market.

She also has the same situation with phone calls from people saying they want to buy property/land, when when they arrive to look at it, my wife often finds out they're other agents looking for a cut - whether or not they have a buyer.

I'm not knocking the locals here at all, but you do need to be on your toes to watch out for scams. there are a lot of people think they're going to make a quick buck with various initially plausable stories.

[bark]

14 hours ago, Paruk said:

Yes, you can be owner of a company and have only 1 employee. I have such a company.

 

First 3 years no tax on income, it's the rule. Thailand supports start ups and leaves you in peace (tax wise) the first 3 years. Inform yourself at Tax office. But, better to stay of their radar like the Thai do.

 

Are you guys working for the law firms here?

Honestly, I thought if you are married and the business is in the wife's name, you needed 2 Thais to support one Foreign work permit ? And not working for a lawyer. But I don't think Thai Visa can offer the best advice.

I would like to know about the one employee rule; if you have info ? thanks.

[sotonfarang]

Intereseting,

 

Its always good to start these topics just to see everyones opinions and different experiences and so on and hope that the info people provide can also help others.

 

my sister-in -law is currently trying to sell her place and i have been assisting her and come across all sorts of people creeping out of the wordwork with their various skills in scamming and trying to make a cut etc, have to hand it to them they aren`t shy .

 

By dealing with the agents, all westerners, i feel that their service was awful and bordering on disrespectful in some cases, I just thought that I can do a better job as they were doing nothing to try to earn their whopping 5% on a 10M house. Just wanted to look into how We could start up obviously with minimum start up costs therefore we have nothing to lose if it doesnt work out.

 

Thats all really. I will look into it further and see what I can do

 

 

 

 

[bluesofa]

2 minutes ago, sotonfarang said:

By dealing with the agents, all westerners, i feel that their service was awful and bordering on disrespectful in some cases, I just thought that I can do a better job as they were doing nothing to try to earn their whopping 5% on a 10M house

 

5%? The standard is usually 3%.

[sotonfarang]

2 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

 

5%? The standard is usually 3%.

 

 all the agents charge 5% around here, its too much and it should be less

 

[simon43]

Some strange and erronous advice here....

 

Any Thai can register a sole trader business, commonly called a 'buk khon tamada'.  It is typically used for a small business, such as noodle stall etc, but there is no reason why you cannot use it for a real-estate business.  Note that like sole trader businesses in other countries, the registree has personal liability for the business debts.  As it is a sole trader business, any business income is considered to be personal income, and is taxed at the relevant personal income rates.

 

You register a sole trader business at your local Tessabahn office, typical registration fee is about 200 baht... takes about 20 minutes.

 

A sole trader can legally employ a foreigner to work in their business, without the need for 4 Thai employees, 2M THB registered capital etc.  But there are some caveats:

 

- The foreigner cannot work in a business which is on the prohibited list for foreigners, such as noodle stalls (all service roles), real estate trading etc

- The local Labour office might not agree with the Law, and could insist that working for a ST is not possible/legal, and that you need to register a Ltd company.  In other words, even though the Law says that you can legally be employed in a ST, the Labour office may decide not to issue you with a work permit.

 

Hope that helps

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, simon43 said:

...You register a sole trader business at your local Tessabahn office, typical registration fee is about 200 baht... takes about 20 minutes.

 

A sole trader can legally employ a foreigner to work in their business, without the need for 4 Thai employees, 2M THB registered capital etc.  But there are some caveats:

 

- The foreigner cannot work in a business which is on the prohibited list for foreigners, such as noodle stalls (all service roles), real estate trading etc

- The local Labour office might not agree with the Law, and could insist that working for a ST is not possible/legal, and that you need to register a Ltd company.  In other words, even though the Law says that you can legally be employed in a ST, the Labour office may decide not to issue you with a work permit.

 

Hope that helps

 

Interesting.  There would need to be paperwork drawn up to support the B-Visa application.  I assume the min-salary would be required (since not a teaching-gig) - or at least tax-paid on said-salary to show. 

 

But if approval was remotely possible I would think a lot of GFs would be hiring their farang BFs this way.  There would be at least 10,000 Thai-GF 'owned' web-consulting companies up in Chang Mai by now.

[ubonjoe]

11 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Interesting.  There would need to be paperwork drawn up to support the B-Visa application.  I assume the min-salary would be required (since not a teaching-gig) - or at least tax-paid on said-salary to show. 

 

There is no minimum salary requirement to apply for a non-b visa at an embassy or consulate. There is one for a extension of stay application based upon working. But to get an extension you must be working for a registered company with 4 Thai  employees with a registered capital of 2 million baht.

[bluesofa]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

There is no minimum salary requirement to apply for a non-b visa at an embassy or consulate. There is one for a extension of stay application based upon working. But to get an extension you must be working for a registered company with 4 Thai  employees with a registered capital of 2 million baht.

If you had a WP with a Non O, then I assume Immigration would not be interested in any of these details.

However, I can't remember the Labour Office requirements for renewal of the WP - does the 4 Thai employees come into it?
Just remind me who is it needs proof of social security payments made for these 4 employees?

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

If you had a WP with a Non O, then I assume Immigration would not be interested in any of these details.

However, I can't remember the Labour Office requirements for renewal of the WP - does the 4 Thai employees come into it?
Just remind me who is it needs proof of social security payments made for these 4 employees?

If you have a non-o visa or an extension of stay based upon marriage there would be no requirement for it to be registered company or have 4 Thai employees.

What is required to apply for a work permit would depend upon the office you go to. At one time if married to a Thai it was only 2 Thai employees but the ministerial regulations were changed in 2010. I have not seen the latest regulations since they were not made public or announced other than in the royal gazette. 

[JackThompson]

54 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

There is no minimum salary requirement to apply for a non-b visa at an embassy or consulate. There is one for a extension of stay application based upon working. But to get an extension you must be working for a registered company with 4 Thai  employees with a registered capital of 2 million baht.

 

Yes - what I was referring to there - the WP and extension, not the initial non-B for just 3 mo - though I suppose it might be possible to get a ME-Non-B for a year (in Hong Kong, still with no WP-application letter?), which might make it worthwhile, if not for being questioned for not having a work-permit on later entries (which seems to be a trend).

 

But on the WP from the Labor office, I have have never heard of the law simon43 was referring to, ...

 

17 hours ago, simon43 said:

A sole trader can legally employ a foreigner to work in their business, without the need for 4 Thai employees, 2M THB registered capital etc.  But there are some caveats:

...

- The local Labour office might not agree with the Law, and could insist that working for a ST is not possible/legal, and that you need to register a Ltd company.  In other words, even though the Law says that you can legally be employed in a ST, the Labour office may decide not to issue you with a work permit.

 

... which would not be contingent on marriage to the employer or company-formation, and allow the hiring of a Farang by a sole-trader.  But the sole-trader could not legally hire someone who cannot get a work-permit, when said work-permit must be issued for work for a specific business.

 

From what I understand, and you reiterate (UJ), "The Labour office may decide will not issue you a work permit."  I would guess it is a matter of one law - "ministerial regulations /  2010" ... and possibly the previous version(s) - overriding another. 

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

 

Yes - what I was referring to there - the WP and extension, not the initial non-B for just 3 mo - though I suppose it might be possible to get a ME-Non-B for a year (in Hong Kong, still with no WP-application letter?), which might make it worthwhile, if not for being questioned for not having a work-permit on later entries (which seems to be a trend).

 

But on the WP from the Labor office, I have have never heard of the law simon43 was referring to, ...

 

 

... which would not be contingent on marriage to the employer or company-formation, and allow the hiring of a Farang by a sole-trader.  But the sole-trader could not legally hire someone who cannot get a work-permit, when said work-permit must be issued for work for a specific business.

 

From what I understand, and you reiterate (UJ), "The Labour office may decide will not issue you a work permit."  I would guess it is a matter of one law - "ministerial regulations /  2010" ... and possibly the previous version(s) - overriding another. 

There is no minimum salary to get a work permit. That is only for the one year extension based upon working. Multiple entry non-b visas are not available within the region without a work permit. Penang requires a work permit with at least 8 months of validity to get one.

Really calling it a sole trader is not correct. The rules refer to a sole proprietor business registration. As far as I know it is not possible to get a work permit for working at one unless married to a Thai. That is how it was in the ministerial regulations done in 2004. But they may of changed the regulation to where it is possible.

I know of a person that has a work permit for working at his wife's restaurant registered as a sole proprietor. But he may be grandfathered since he has been doing it for several years.

If married to a Thai the best way to set things up is to form a 51/49 partnership with her with one million baht of registered capital.