Turkey under growing pressure over its clashes with Syrian Kurds

[webfact]

Turkey under growing pressure over its clashes with Syrian Kurds

 

 

MOSCOW: -- Russia has voiced concern over the actions of Turkey’s armed forces and fighters led by Ankara in northern Syria.

 

Russian Foreign Minster Sergei Lavrov spoke to his Turkish counterpart Mevlut Cavusoglu by telephone on Wednesday.

 

Moscow has urged Turkey to avoid strikes on opposition and ethnic groups, including Syrian Kurds, who are fighting ISIL also known as Daesh.

 

That echoes the view of the United States, Turkey’s NATO ally.

 

“We don’t believe tactical operations between members of the SDF and Turkish forces, or forces supported by Turkey, to be productive in terms of the fight against Daesh,” US State Department John Kirby said on Tuesday.

 

Ankara however is defiant, summoning the US ambassador over his country’s stance and denying reports of a temporary truce with Syrian Kurdish forces that Ankara sees as terrorists.

 

A spokesman for President Recep Tayyip Erdogan insisted that Turkey would continue striking Kurdish militia until they withdraw from the region where Turkish forces are fighting.

 

Turkey fears that, if Kurdish fighters control the entire area along its Syrian border, it could embolden Kurdish militants at home who have been fighting for decades for autonomy on Turkish soil.

 

Operation “Euphrates Shield”, in which Turkish troops and tanks entered Syria in support of rebels for the first time, began on Aug. 24 with the swift capture of Jarablus, a town a few km inside Syria that was held by ISIL.

 

Turkey said on Wednesday that it wanted to clear ISIL from a 90 km stretch of territory on the Syrian side of its border, a week after launching the incursion.

 

But it also wants to prevent Kurdish militias from seizing territory in their wake.

 

 

-- © Copyright Euronews 2016-09-01

[Stargeezr]

It Turkey a new world power? Does this country have a large enough military to go against Russia?  I wonder what will happen if it keeps trying to be something it is not. Wake up Turkey, you are not a large country to take on Russia, America, or even most of the European military. Defend your borders, but leave the war in Syria to the other countries.

  Why has someone on not taken out a certain Syrian leader?   Maybe this would help get to an ending at least,  of the Civil war situation in that country.

Just my opinion of course

Geezer

[mrwebb8825]

I say, don't stop them at all. They've already cleared 1 town within a week of getting involved. Feed them intelligence on the locations of other known, ISIS 'strongholds' and let them have at it.

If the rest of the world were to take similar initiatives, we might just see some verifiable progress.

 

OR, we could all vote for Hillary and she'd take tough diplomatic and economic potions.  Look how much that's scared 'em so far.

[Steely Dan]

On 9/1/2016 at 11:59 PM, Stargrazer9889 said:

It Turkey a new world power? Does this country have a large enough military to go against Russia?  I wonder what will happen if it keeps trying to be something it is not. Wake up Turkey, you are not a large country to take on Russia, America, or even most of the European military. Defend your borders, but leave the war in Syria to the other countries.

  Why has someone on not taken out a certain Syrian leader?  Maybe this would help get to an ending at least,  of the Civil war situation in that country.

Just my opinion of course

Geezer
 

But they are a member of NATO. This should be rectified as soon as possible. NATO only reduces risk of conflict as a confederation of stable democracies. Turkey is anything but at present.


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[Caps]

Let them crack on tackling IS, it good to see a predominately muslim country getting stuck in instead of letting everyone else do it.  Although they should leave the Kurds alone who are fighting IS...at least until IS is wiped from the planet, if they must!

[Scott]

Turkey, by the way, does have a very large military and they are not a country whose military might should be taken lightly.   They also now have a leader whose strength rivals that of a dictator.   Those that wish to tangle with Turkey need to be aware of not only their military strength but their geographical position and their ability to wreak havoc in the region as well as Europe.

 

There are all together way too many enemies and way too few friends in that part of the world.   I have lived and worked in Turkey, Syria and over 3 years in Iraq.   I am not starting to get confused as to who is for and who is against who.  

 

Nearly everyone seems to have their sights set on ISIS, but ISIS is just a battle.   The war is on terrorism and the obliteration of ISIS will only see it reconstituted under a new acronym.   A few years ago it was AQ.   Now it is ISIS.   In a few years it will be a different one.  

 

I think we have a long way to go before the war is won.   In the meantime, it would be best if we could avoid fighting with friendly forces.  

[Scott]

13 hours ago, Steely Dan said:

But they are a member of NATO. This should be rectified as soon as possible. NATO only reduces risk of conflict as a confederation of stable democracies. Turkey is anything but at present.


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As it currently stands, should Russia make any move on Turkey, which is unlikely, NATO would still be obliged to come to Turkey's defense.  

 

Turkey is not behaving in a very nice manner, but I am not sure if booting them out of NATO would be a smart move.  

[Caps]

25 minutes ago, Scott said:

Turkey, by the way, does have a very large military and they are not a country whose military might should be taken lightly.   They also now have a leader whose strength rivals that of a dictator.   Those that wish to tangle with Turkey need to be aware of not only their military strength but their geographical position and their ability to wreak havoc in the region as well as Europe.

 

There are all together way too many enemies and way too few friends in that part of the world.   I have lived and worked in Turkey, Syria and over 3 years in Iraq.   I am not starting to get confused as to who is for and who is against who.  

 

Nearly everyone seems to have their sights set on ISIS, but ISIS is just a battle.   The war is on terrorism and the obliteration of ISIS will only see it reconstituted under a new acronym.   A few years ago it was AQ.   Now it is ISIS.   In a few years it will be a different one.  

 

I think we have a long way to go before the war is won.   In the meantime, it would be best if we could avoid fighting with friendly forces.  

They have a large military, yes, but that does not make you a good military (as shown in other countries). 

I think the leader would sacrifice his own mother to get his own way so I can see the Turkish Military in for the long haul and its only a matter of time before the body bags start getting sent back to Turkey

Have done 3 year in Iraq myself as a civi, 2 at Taji and 1 near Basra and military tours before that, I still get confused as to what is going on in some of these parts. 

[Rancid]

Doubt if either Turkey or Russia are interested in any armed conflict, neither has anything to gain. Calls for assassination of Assad is simply a call to murder leaders you don't like, where does that end, there is a leader in every country someone doesn't like. Likewise the media are very adept at painting a picture to get the natives all riled up, half the time the picture they paint omits a lot of information that contradicts the feelings they are trying to invoke.

 

Sometimes one should consider whether to organize terrorist groups to eject leaders that don't fit your geopolitical objectives really isn't a good idea, all it really does is kill of thousands of innocent people. In my home country people are against Assad, but when you ask them why all they are able to do is demonstrate a complete ignorance, the best they can do is parrot a few soundbites they heard on the news. One idiot of Facebook even thought the Chinese were arming ISIS and that Russia was stealing islands in the Pacific, they can't even get the mime right.

 

Turkey entering the fray potentially makes the whole situation more dangerous, the idea of chopping up Syria into zones that includes a Kurdish homeland doesn't fit their grand plan. Also remember the YouTube recordings of Turkish officials years ago planning a false flag to invade Syria. Assad is no angel but his real crime was ruling over territory for which other nations had different plans.

[Scott]

2 hours ago, Rancid said:

Doubt if either Turkey or Russia are interested in any armed conflict, neither has anything to gain. Calls for assassination of Assad is simply a call to murder leaders you don't like, where does that end, there is a leader in every country someone doesn't like. Likewise the media are very adept at painting a picture to get the natives all riled up, half the time the picture they paint omits a lot of information that contradicts the feelings they are trying to invoke.

 

Sometimes one should consider whether to organize terrorist groups to eject leaders that don't fit your geopolitical objectives really isn't a good idea, all it really does is kill of thousands of innocent people. In my home country people are against Assad, but when you ask them why all they are able to do is demonstrate a complete ignorance, the best they can do is parrot a few soundbites they heard on the news. One idiot of Facebook even thought the Chinese were arming ISIS and that Russia was stealing islands in the Pacific, they can't even get the mime right.

 

Turkey entering the fray potentially makes the whole situation more dangerous, the idea of chopping up Syria into zones that includes a Kurdish homeland doesn't fit their grand plan. Also remember the YouTube recordings of Turkish officials years ago planning a false flag to invade Syria. Assad is no angel but his real crime was ruling over territory for which other nations had different plans.

Assad's biggest crime, in an international sense, is not overseeing territory that anybody other than perhaps some neighbors have any real interest in.   He, and his father, spent much time undermining pretty much everybody.   They were anti-Saddam, but wouldn't outright support his ouster.   Instead, they played a passive-aggressive game of allowing Iraqi opposition (including the Iraqi Kurds) to use Syria as a base to be involved in nefarious activities against Saddam.   They have long been the one who stir the pot with what on the surface, at least, appears to be nothing more than a screw everybody and try not to get caught.  

 

The true colors with Assad Jr. and with his father were his brutality toward his own people.   No one was realistically interested in a pipeline through Syria because Assad was about the least trustworthy person to deal with.  

 

He was a nuisance of epic proportion, screwing all and sundry at every turn.   Had he had a position, then he could be dealt with.   He didn't and Karma came back to bite him in the rear.   He has long angered Turkey.   He is no friend to Iraq and other than his ties with Iran, much of which is again just an easier staging ground for actions against other, including Israel.  

 

Russia has bases and Assad is a useful tool to them.   Once secured, it will be interesting to see how philosophically they are attached to him.  

 

It's never wise to screw everybody over, including your own people.  

 

 

[simple1]

3 hours ago, Rancid said:

Doubt if either Turkey or Russia are interested in any armed conflict, neither has anything to gain. Calls for assassination of Assad is simply a call to murder leaders you don't like, where does that end, there is a leader in every country someone doesn't like. Likewise the media are very adept at painting a picture to get the natives all riled up, half the time the picture they paint omits a lot of information that contradicts the feelings they are trying to invoke.

 

Sometimes one should consider whether to organize terrorist groups to eject leaders that don't fit your geopolitical objectives really isn't a good idea, all it really does is kill of thousands of innocent people. In my home country people are against Assad, but when you ask them why all they are able to do is demonstrate a complete ignorance, the best they can do is parrot a few soundbites they heard on the news. One idiot of Facebook even thought the Chinese were arming ISIS and that Russia was stealing islands in the Pacific, they can't even get the mime right.

 

Turkey entering the fray potentially makes the whole situation more dangerous, the idea of chopping up Syria into zones that includes a Kurdish homeland doesn't fit their grand plan. Also remember the YouTube recordings of Turkish officials years ago planning a false flag to invade Syria. Assad is no angel but his real crime was ruling over territory for which other nations had different plans.

 

China supplies Assad with military hardware and ISIS buys Chinese weapons and ammunition. Given Assad's duplicitous behaviour to date with matters such as releasing Islamists from his prisons and buying ISIS oil, wouldn't be at all surprised if he was also secretly supplying ISIS with weapons in order to gain additional military support / sympathy.

 

Russia and Japan have been in dispute over island ownership for decades. I understand it's the reason why Russia and Japan have to date not signed off a peace agreement at the conclusion of WW11.

[Steely Dan]

They have a large military, yes, but that does not make you a good military (as shown in other countries). 

I think the leader would sacrifice his own mother to get his own way so I can see the Turkish Military in for the long haul and its only a matter of time before the body bags start getting sent back to Turkey

Have done 3 year in Iraq myself as a civi, 2 at Taji and 1 near Basra and military tours before that, I still get confused as to what is going on in some of these parts. 

There have been so many purges of the military by Erdogan that it is hard to imagine this has not weakened them in terms of both leadership and morale. The tanks we see on film rolling into Syria are over fifty year old technology, the Israelis have supplied Arab special ops with hardware so advanced that it would be a turkey shoot should they turn them on the Turkish military. This does not mean it will happen, unless of course the Arab nations decide to do so. I have seen footage of top of the line recent soviet armour being destroyed so have little doubt as to who would win should Turkey have to fight them one on one.


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[stevenl]

18 hours ago, Caps said:

Let them crack on tackling IS, it good to see a predominately muslim country getting stuck in instead of letting everyone else do it.  Although they should leave the Kurds alone who are fighting IS...at least until IS is wiped from the planet, if they must!

Nobody there is really fighting Daesh, their real goals are different.

[boomerangutang]

I had been liking the Kurds, but recently saw a video about some Kurd families in the UK.  They tried killing the younger daughter and failed.  They tried killing the elder daughter (about 23) and failed the first few times, but then succeeded after gang raping her.  I detest honor killings and anyone who's involved with them.  When UK cops tried to investigate, they had zero help from any Kurds, except the younger sister.  I still like Kurds in general, particularly in comparison to other factions in the region, but their rating just went down several points in my view, due to them keeping the 'honor killings' thing going.  Apparently, lots of them also engage in genital mutilation which is also detestable. 

Being born female in the Middle East is shitsville.

[Grouse]

 

If ever we needed real statesmanship, it's now.

 

Sadly, looks like nobody is up to the job. 

 

As as stated previously, I would like to see a Kurdish state and a rebalancing of power locally.

 

Turkey's NATO membership is a Cold War throw back. American missiles were taken back as part of the Cuban crisis solution. I don't really think we need listening stations there either.

 

Shameful betrayal of the Kurds now.....

[simple1]

5 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

I had been liking the Kurds, but recently saw a video about some Kurd families in the UK.  They tried killing the younger daughter and failed.  They tried killing the elder daughter (about 23) and failed the first few times, but then succeeded after gang raping her.  I detest honor killings and anyone who's involved with them.  When UK cops tried to investigate, they had zero help from any Kurds, except the younger sister.  I still like Kurds in general, particularly in comparison to other factions in the region, but their rating just went down several points in my view, due to them keeping the 'honor killings' thing going.  Apparently, lots of them also engage in genital mutilation which is also detestable. 

Being born female in the Middle East is shitsville.

 

One has to assume this behaviour does not extend to the Kurdish socialist groups; having lived in the region Scott may like to comment. The various Kurdish factions also kill each other, I assume not that much difference to other tribes in the region - Scott?