Who told her opening a coffee shop was a good idea?

[HowardV]

My wife and I opened a coffee shop about 8 years ago in Bangkok.  At the time, Amazon was just starting to take hold, but most people still did not know what an "espresso" or a "cappuccino" was.  I would order a double shot and was served two cups of coffee.  So, I said to my wife, "we should try running a small coffee shop near the international schools.  No one serves coffee at 7 a.m., when you actually need it, and I don't think most Thais have tasted a good cappuccino.  And we'll make it affordable."

 

That's what we did.  We charged 25 baht for an espresso, and milk and sugar didn't cost extra.  Based on the cost, it might have worked if we'd had a large volume of customers.  As it was, we couldn't get people to make the switch from instant street coffee to high quality fresh ground and pressed.  I even tried giving away free drinks to raise interest, but we still couldn't get enough customers to come in the door.  We eventually had to raise our prices.  Then we had to branch out and start selling food - toasted sandwiches at first, then muffins, cookies, fresh breads, and finally, dinner specials.

 

Well, after three years, we finally had to shut it down.  Now I try to discourage people from opening up coffee shops.  To make it work, you've either got to go really low (street cart selling Nescafe for 15 baht or less) or really high (average drinks at 60 baht with ambience and atmosphere).  Anywhere in the middle and you won't have the volume or be able to justify the price.  And now, with everyone and their dog opening coffee shops, the only good thing about it is that people finally know what the words "espresso" and "double shot" mean.

[Deepinthailand]

6 minutes ago, HowardV said:

My wife and I opened a coffee shop about 8 years ago in Bangkok.  At the time, Amazon was just starting to take hold, but most people still did not know what an "espresso" or a "cappuccino" was.  I would order a double shot and was served two cups of coffee.  So, I said to my wife, "we should try running a small coffee shop near the international schools.  No one serves coffee at 7 a.m., when you actually need it, and I don't think most Thais have tasted a good cappuccino.  And we'll make it affordable."

 

That's what we did.  We charged 25 baht for an espresso, and milk and sugar didn't cost extra.  Based on the cost, it might have worked if we'd had a large volume of customers.  As it was, we couldn't get people to make the switch from instant street coffee to high quality fresh ground and pressed.  I even tried giving away free drinks to raise interest, but we still couldn't get enough customers to come in the door.  We eventually had to raise our prices.  Then we had to branch out and start selling food - toasted sandwiches at first, then muffins, cookies, fresh breads, and finally, dinner specials.

 

Well, after three years, we finally had to shut it down.  Now I try to discourage people from opening up coffee shops.  To make it work, you've either got to go really low (street cart selling Nescafe for 15 baht or less) or really high (average drinks at 60 baht with ambience and atmosphere).  Anywhere in the middle and you won't have the volume or be able to justify the price.  And now, with everyone and their dog opening coffee shops, the only good thing about it is that people finally know what the words "espresso" and "double shot" mean.

I agree they may know what espresso and double shots mean in BKK but not here in our village. They want good strong coffee and cheap. You cater for the customer demands not try to influence there desicion and sell them what they don't want. 

[nahkit]

14 hours ago, lostinisaan said:

 

 An ex colleague made a boutique for his wife and they sold pretty well. Only a few weeks later there's another shop selling almost identical stuff. Not long and there's a third one. And nobody could make enough money to pay for the townhouse the shop was in. 

 

My daughter has a lock-up unit in a large clothes market. A couple of months ago she brought some blouses up from Bangkok that were selling really well. A couple of days later, the woman with the shop opposite her had stocked up on exactly the same thing.

 

Ok, no reason why she shouldn't, but not content with that, this woman took to walking over to my daughters unit with a couple of the blouses whenever my daughter had a customer browsing and telling them that she sold the same stuff for 10 baht cheaper.

 

Came close to all-out war.

[stupidfarang]

1 hour ago, MissAndry said:

 

My former husband in the UK gave me a gold credit card on his account, I spent a LOT.

Then when I divorced him he gave me his house, his children, half his pension and most of his savings.

I'm thinking he would have preferred the Thai monthly allowance method.

 

Did he give or was it the courts who gave? Also he gave you his children? were they your stepchildren?  

[balo]

Do they sell coffee in coffee shops these days?

Most local shops sell some crap they call coffee. But most of it is an insult to the coffee bean.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

Great idea.I think i will open one too....what shall i call it?..errm .i know .Coffee and beer.thats a catchy title,i dont think any one will have thought of that.And the pig farm sounds good too....I could incorporate the two places together and call it Coffee and Beer and pork.The notice out side could read,"come in,enjoy a Beer or a Coffee and then get to slaughter your own pig!

I think it will work.

[williamgeorgeallen]

2 hours ago, louse1953 said:

It's a free country.Men having power over women is 19th century thinking.What the man does about the deceit is up to him.

western man thai woman relationships can not be thought of in a traditional sense. in most cases the man has money and the woman does not.  so many times i have seen the westerner trying to get their girl out of the bar scene. the bar girl is just trying to milk the guy for as much as they can until the westerner catches on and give up. the level of denial by many western men is quite incredible in many cases.

[stupidfarang]

1 hour ago, MissAndry said:

 

Sala Cafe in Mae Rim, out in the wilds, no passing trade, makes a fortune.

A Swiss guy built it for his wife to have a hobby. Nice lady, nice guy (but French speaking). Very popular with Bangkok Thais on holiday.

 

https://www.facebook.com/mysalacafe

Wow that is some coffee shop, so beautiful, can see why it is popular but it is far from the average coffee shop I think most people on here are talking about. I will check Sala Cafe out when I am up North next month. Thanks for the link MissAndy

[GarryP]

2 hours ago, HenryB said:

It seems many Farangs can not stop wife's from open any business that they know nothing about 

Did you know anything about your first job?

 

Many people start their first business with little or no experience. Yes, some will fail, but others will plod along and some will thrive. Rather than looking at the business, wouldn't it be better to look at the person to see if they have the motivation, the get up and go, the staying power and the desire to succeed. The willingness to study and to persevere are important. Very few businesses are overnight successes.

 

Having said that, there are way too many coffee shops out in small provincial towns.  And from experience, the coffee is not that good. Most of it is served lukewarm.

[georgemandm]

2 hours ago, louse1953 said:

Same same,but different.You don't pay her but yet you pay for her.

Impossible to be the same , you see it like that but that is not what it is , you don't pay a woman a monthly salary to be with you .

 

[JJGreen]

Did you know anything about your first job?

 

Many people start their first business with little or no experience. Yes, some will fail, but others will plod along and some will thrive. Rather than looking at the business, wouldn't it be better to look at the person to see if they have the motivation, the get up and go, the staying power and the desire to succeed. The willingness to study and to persevere are important. Very few businesses are overnight successes.

 

Having said that, there are way too many coffee shops out in small provincial towns.  And from experience, the coffee is not that good. Most of it is served lukewarm.

Thais seem to prefer their coffee cold from what i see.
The person and motivation behind the scenes is a crucial key to success

[bazza40]

3 hours ago, georgemandm said:

Can I just ask you this why would you give your wife a monthly allowance, I for one can't understand why western man give wife , partner, girlfriend a monthly allowance.

i have never ever give my other half money to be with me , not understand it , is it just a thing here in thailand?.

Ok back home if you have a wife or partner 

you give them money to do the weekly shopping I understand that , but here I have heard of this monthly allowance Bulls??? , my thai partner put it to me when I first meet her and my reply was I don't pay someone to be with me , if your not happy see you later.

i take good care of her yes , but I will not pay someone a monthly allowance.

 

Most falangs here in a relationship with a Thai give them a monthly allowance. Sometimes, it gets distributed out to other members of the family who are unable to work.

I don't suppose you are familiar with the expression "control freak".

[georgemandm]

28 minutes ago, nahkit said:

 

My daughter has a lock-up unit in a large clothes market. A couple of months ago she brought some blouses up from Bangkok that were selling really well. A couple of days later, the woman with the shop opposite her had stocked up on exactly the same thing.

 

Ok, no reason why she shouldn't, but not content with that, this woman took to walking over to my daughters unit with a couple of the blouses whenever my daughter had a customer browsing and telling them that she sold the same stuff for 10 baht cheaper.

 

Came close to all-out war.

Hahaha 

[georgemandm]

8 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Did you know anything about your first job?

 

Many people start their first business with little or no experience. Yes, some will fail, but others will plod along and some will thrive. Rather than looking at the business, wouldn't it be better to look at the person to see if they have the motivation, the get up and go, the staying power and the desire to succeed. The willingness to study and to persevere are important. Very few businesses are overnight successes.

 

Having said that, there are way too many coffee shops out in small provincial towns.  And from experience, the coffee is not that good. Most of it is served lukewarm.

Yes people do start like you say , But I would not start it in thailand no way .

[slipperylobster]

I had a friend (albeit the philippines) who came up with a novel idea, and it is still working 10 years later.

 

He opened a place and called it "Suds and Duds".  Basically, his wife did laundry (way in the back)...but he had a bar towards the front.  Ladies and single men would bring in piles of laundry.  It was good traffic.  Some of the guys would sit down and drink with the owner, and have their laundry done "express". Part of the attraction was the name and idea. The other part was that he was a congenial/decent conversationalist. The location was near a hotel where "ladies" would come and go. It was fun to watch them pass by...and you recognized most of them. They sold beer any time of the day....(might be a problem in Thailand).  It was one of the few places you could hang out at after lunch...and watch the people come in and out. Good, friendly place.

 

As you can see..there were so many elements involved that contributed to it staying open.

Cheap laundry service...and cold beer (the real sell).

 

 

Edited September 5, 2016 by slipperylobster

[Deepinthailand]

7 minutes ago, bazza40 said:

Most falangs here in a relationship with a Thai give them a monthly allowance. Sometimes, it gets distributed out to other members of the family who are unable to work.

I don't suppose you are familiar with the expression "control freak".

Don't judge others by your own methods just setting up to fail.

[bazza40]

1 minute ago, Deepinthailand said:

Don't judge others by your own methods just setting up to fail.

Looks like I've been failing for 7 years, then.

[georgemandm]

9 minutes ago, bazza40 said:

Most falangs here in a relationship with a Thai give them a monthly allowance. Sometimes, it gets distributed out to other members of the family who are unable to work.

I don't suppose you are familiar with the expression "control freak".

No are you , I am not that stupid to do s??? Like that .

[cncltd1973]

14 hours ago, Deepinthailand said:

We have a coffee shop and a hairdressers shop and sell food and ice. It runs well and provides us with a good income. It is run soley by my wife. In our village there are numerous shops selling what we sell, no other coffee shops but I expect someone will open one. The trick is diversity. Being a hairdressers the shop gets a good cliental.  Whilst there there they can buy whatever they might need from the shop bit. And if waiting for hair to be done what's better than a nice strong coffee. Especially as we keep the ambient temp of the shop just cool enough for a hot coffee to be appreciated. But the real trick is giving people what they want which is not the expensive cappuccino or latte. Thais like strong short cup coffee. My wife is now In negotiations  with bankok bank to have an ATM placed inside the shop. As this is the bank  most used in the village with the added bonus of free withdraws for agricultural bank. The nearest ATM is 10km away. Again this is Purley to draw in custom plus it's a nice earner from bank. So it's not about keeping anyone quite or why bother it's called being enterprising. Not willing to just plod along. Oh and before you all jump in with ah but who built the shop who's money. Sorry to disappoint it's all the mrs doing and paying. (But we class money as and land and property as ours as most solid couples the world over do)

Awesome. You've achieved what mega corporations call 'splendor' : the ability to have the hand of one branch shake the hand of the other and another and so on, until all your businesses thrive from each other.

[JJGreen]

If I had a choice between busting sod for 12 hours a day for 300 baht, and opening a coffee shop to sell 20 cups at 40 baht each day, I know which one I'd go for.  20 cups in an 8 hour day would look real slow to a casual observer.

 

With one, there's no way out of the basement.  At least with the coffee shop, it can turn into 2 shops, then 3, then an empire.  

 

Tougher to turn a coffee cart into an empire.  Too easy to copy and park 10 meters away to get anyone to work the first one so you can grow the 2nd.  Coffee shop has at least a little barrier to entry, and opportunities to differentiate yourself against the competition.

Have to consider overheads in that.

If u have your own property you can sell from, in a village or city shophouse you have an advantage over renting a premises for a stand-alone coffee house

[georgemandm]

16 minutes ago, transam said:

You had that attitude in farangland....?

What are you on about? 

[JJGreen]

My wife and I opened a coffee shop about 8 years ago in Bangkok.  At the time, Amazon was just starting to take hold, but most people still did not know what an "espresso" or a "cappuccino" was.  I would order a double shot and was served two cups of coffee.  So, I said to my wife, "we should try running a small coffee shop near the international schools.  No one serves coffee at 7 a.m., when you actually need it, and I don't think most Thais have tasted a good cappuccino.  And we'll make it affordable."

 

That's what we did.  We charged 25 baht for an espresso, and milk and sugar didn't cost extra.  Based on the cost, it might have worked if we'd had a large volume of customers.  As it was, we couldn't get people to make the switch from instant street coffee to high quality fresh ground and pressed.  I even tried giving away free drinks to raise interest, but we still couldn't get enough customers to come in the door.  We eventually had to raise our prices.  Then we had to branch out and start selling food - toasted sandwiches at first, then muffins, cookies, fresh breads, and finally, dinner specials.

 

Well, after three years, we finally had to shut it down.  Now I try to discourage people from opening up coffee shops.  To make it work, you've either got to go really low (street cart selling Nescafe for 15 baht or less) or really high (average drinks at 60 baht with ambience and atmosphere).  Anywhere in the middle and you won't have the volume or be able to justify the price.  And now, with everyone and their dog opening coffee shops, the only good thing about it is that people finally know what the words "espresso" and "double shot" mean.

Was the demand mainly for hot or cold coffee?

[JJGreen]

Just a question to try and understand your attitude....

 

In the UK chaps give their lady/wife HOUSE KEEPING cash, that's what we call it, and it is an allowance...

 

Are you saying chaps here should not give HOUSE KEEPING, an allowance.....?

What are you on about? 

Can we try and stay close to topic?

This thread is about coffee shops not monthly stipends.

Why not start a thread on the subject and continue the debate there?

[impulse]

16 minutes ago, JJGreen said:

Have to consider overheads in that.

If u have your own property you can sell from, in a village or city shophouse you have an advantage over renting a premises for a stand-alone coffee house

 

Very true.  Expenses may kill you.

 

But my point was more about the dismal range of employment choices that drive so many Thais to open up their own businesses rather than get caught up in a dead end job that sucks the energy and life out of them with no way up.  

 

I've got tons of respect for those Thai people I see, 20 of them riding in the back of a pickup to work 8-10-12 hour days on a construction site for 300 baht a day.  

 

And lots of empathy for those who try even an ill fated venture to improve their life and their family's finances.  To me, it doesn't look like a great idea.  But I haven't had to walk a mile in their shoes, either.  And once they've covered expenses, they only have to sell 8 cups at 40 baht each to match a 300 baht salary.

[Squeegee]

16 hours ago, georgemandm said:

It has been happening here for years one thai opens something good then you see 10 more of the same , it is just thailand 

 

No, it is not just Thailand.

[JJGreen]

 

Very true.  Expenses may kill you.

 

But my point was more about the dismal range of employment choices that drive so many Thais to open up their own businesses rather than get caught up in a dead end job that sucks the energy and life out of them with no way up.  

 

I've got tons of respect for those Thai people I see, 20 of them riding in the back of a pickup to work 8-10-12 hour days on a construction site for 300 baht a day.  

 

And lots of empathy for those who try even an ill fated venture to improve their life and their family's finances.  To me, it doesn't look like a great idea.  But I haven't had to walk a mile in their shoes, either.  And once they've covered expenses, they only have to sell 8 cups at 40 baht each to match a 300 baht salary.

Those are good points.

I've found some have a romantic notion of opening the coffee shop.
They have heard that someone else made good money and its sounds like fun to them...work their own hours...work with a friend...chat with customers.
Part of that might be an escape from the drudgery of low.paid work and long travel hours...part of it from not thinking it through

[MissAndry]

2 hours ago, stupidfarang said:

Did he give or was it the courts who gave? Also he gave you his children? were they your stepchildren?  

 

Gold credit card was husband's idea, the rest was via the divorce magistrate, I was given 100% custody, but I gave them over to him for more cash and moved abroad. This probably makes me a bad person, but I don't really care about the kids, they were just a divorce negotiating ploy to get the house, I'd rather have cash.

Edited September 5, 2016 by MissAndry

[MissAndry]

56 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I've got tons of respect for those Thai people I see, 20 of them riding in the back of a pickup to work 8-10-12 hour days on a construction site for 300 baht a day.  

 

 

I think you'll find those are Burmese (up north) or Cambodians (down south). Not many (any?) Thais in that lot.

[GarryP]

8 minutes ago, MissAndry said:

 

Gold credit card was husband's idea, the rest was via the divorce magistrate, I was given 100% custody, but I gave them over to him for more cash and moved abroad. This probably makes me a bad person, but I don't really care about the kids, they were just a divorce negotiating ploy to get the house, I'd rather have cash.

Ever read "I think we need to talk about Kevin?" 

[MissAndry]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

Hmmmmm, sure your kids know where they stand regarding their mum eh.......

 

I'm a very selfish person, and have never really had much in the way of feelings for anyone else ever. Some people are like that. On the other hand, I've never really harmed anyone either.

 

Edited September 5, 2016 by MissAndry