Thailand 'supports' China's efforts to maintain maritime peace

[yardrunner]

12 hours ago, ThailandLOS said:

 

Or (and much more likely in the real world) Big Brother US just kindly offered to draw up the papers for them, as in fact the Philippines has promoted bilateral negotiations with China to resolve the issue.

 

When bemoaning how far China’s nine-dash-line delineating its claims in the South China Sea extends from the Chinese mainland, you should consider what a line encompassing your country's own far-flung possessions would look like. Your line, like China’s, would reflect past naval exploits, not proximity to US or someone else’s coast, and your line would extend much farther from our mainland than China’s does from theirs. US hypocrisy at its prime.

 

In reality, as the US military advantage declines day by day, it will be less confident that a potential war with China will conform to its plans. China’s improved military capabilities, particularly for anti-access and area denial (A2AD), mean that the United States cannot count on gaining operational control, destroying China’s defenses, and achieving decisive victory if a war occurred.

 

Pentagon's view is that a war with China must be fought sooner rather than later. The US military build-up envisages 60 percent of all air and naval assets in the Indo-Pacific region by 2020—now just over three years away. Moreover, Washington’s deliberate inflaming of dangerous flash points in Asia, especially in the South China Sea, is aimed at portraying Beijing as “aggressive” and “expansionist” and concocting the necessary casus belli.

 

In support to this, the “system of civilian control” in the United States is particularly sinister. Behind the backs of the American population, plans are being drawn up by think tanks like the RAND Corporation, by the military/police forces and by the broader state apparatus for police state measures to suppress anti-war opposition that go well beyond those employed in World War II.

If Throughout your article  you were to change America and the Pentagon for China and the Chinese and change China to the USA i would be inclined to agree with you

[ThailandLOS]

18 minutes ago, yardrunner said:

If Throughout your article  you were to change America and the Pentagon for China and the Chinese and change China to the USA i would be inclined to agree with you

 

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, preferably supported by facts.

[JAG]

20 hours ago, elgordo38 said:

I guess Thailands new CHINESE subs will be patrolling the South China Sea in support. "Yankee Go Home"

For as long as they last....

[heybruce]

17 hours ago, ThailandLOS said:

 

Or (and much more likely in the real world) Big Brother US just kindly offered to draw up the papers for them, as in fact the Philippines has promoted bilateral negotiations with China to resolve the issue.

 

When bemoaning how far China’s nine-dash-line delineating its claims in the South China Sea extends from the Chinese mainland, you should consider what a line encompassing your country's own far-flung possessions would look like. Your line, like China’s, would reflect past naval exploits, not proximity to US or someone else’s coast, and your line would extend much farther from our mainland than China’s does from theirs. US hypocrisy at its prime.

 

In reality, as the US military advantage declines day by day, it will be less confident that a potential war with China will conform to its plans. China’s improved military capabilities, particularly for anti-access and area denial (A2AD), mean that the United States cannot count on gaining operational control, destroying China’s defenses, and achieving decisive victory if a war occurred.

 

Pentagon's view is that a war with China must be fought sooner rather than later. The US military build-up envisages 60 percent of all air and naval assets in the Indo-Pacific region by 2020—now just over three years away. Moreover, Washington’s deliberate inflaming of dangerous flash points in Asia, especially in the South China Sea, is aimed at portraying Beijing as “aggressive” and “expansionist” and concocting the necessary casus belli.

 

In support to this, the “system of civilian control” in the United States is particularly sinister. Behind the backs of the American population, plans are being drawn up by think tanks like the RAND Corporation, by the military/police forces and by the broader state apparatus for police state measures to suppress anti-war opposition that go well beyond those employed in World War II.

 

4 hours ago, ThailandLOS said:

 

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, preferably supported by facts.

Please provide some facts to support the opinions above.  I'm particularly interested in your claims that the US claims exclusive economic control of entire seas, the Pentagon wanting to fight a war with China and plans being drawn up by the Rand Corporation to suppress anti-war opposition.

[heybruce]

17 hours ago, ThailandLOS said:

 

The court in question, the Permanent Court of Arbitration, is often referred to in the press as a “UN tribunal” to give it greater cachet, but, in fact, it is not part of the UN, being a body created in 1899 when imperialism ruled the waves. No wonder China refused to participate in the proceedings (a Palestinian in an Israeli court stands a better chance) and is ignoring the averse ruling.

 

Now, you can go on howling about China flaunting the rule of law, how outraged the “the international community” (read “NATO”) is, and the like.

But let's look at an example of US behavior to validate if it can be considered a "reliable treaty partner"

 

When Nicaragua took US before the International Court of Justice – an actual UN body – over US mining of their harbors and other offenses, US refused to participate in the proceedings, claiming the court did not have jurisdiction. When the court ruled against US, it blocked enforcement of the ruling through veto in the Security Council.

 

Embarrassingly, in light of current posturing, one of the charges levelled against the US was interrupting peaceful maritime commerce – this by the self-proclaimed protector of freedom of navigation in the western Pacific.

 

With this in mind, I would say that the US does an excellent job in painting itself as "the bad guy", demonstrating massive hypocrisy simultaneously.

You edited my post down to:

 

"I understand that the international tribunal has no mechanism for enforcing its rulings.  Treaty signatories agree, in the treaties, to abide by the rulings.  China, by refusing to accept or abide by the ruling, has identified itself as an unreliable treaty partner. "

 

And then you didn't reply to any part of it.  Try again.

[ThailandLOS]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

 

Please provide some facts to support the opinions above.  I'm particularly interested in your claims that the US claims exclusive economic control of entire seas, the Pentagon wanting to fight a war with China and plans being drawn up by the Rand Corporation to suppress anti-war opposition.

 

Since I am not your assistant try googling yourself if you want to find the sources. It's all out there since the US government is less proficient than it would wish to be in securing its electronic communication.

 

Funny how you consistently omit the  fact that the US has set a very low standard in terms of international affairs, in Central/South America, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria among others, and now in the Western Pacific.

 

While you're a it, give some thought to why your president suddenly chooses to show up in Laos, as the first US president ever in history. Peace keeping mission?

 

Edited September 9, 2016 by ThailandLOS

[ThailandLOS]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

You edited my post down to:

 

"I understand that the international tribunal has no mechanism for enforcing its rulings.  Treaty signatories agree, in the treaties, to abide by the rulings.  China, by refusing to accept or abide by the ruling, has identified itself as an unreliable treaty partner. "

 

And then you didn't reply to any part of it.  Try again.

 

If you didn't understand what I wrote and its relevance, there is no use trying again.

[heybruce]

6 minutes ago, ThailandLOS said:

 

If you didn't understand what I wrote and its relevance, there is no use trying again.

I understand that I provided an on-topic post about China and the international tribunal and you replied with a rambling post about affairs between the US and Nicaragua in the 1980's.

[heybruce]

6 hours ago, ThailandLOS said:

 

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, preferably supported by facts.

 

16 minutes ago, ThailandLOS said:

 

Since I am not your assistant try googling yourself if you want to find the sources. It's all out there since the US government is less proficient than it would wish to be in securing its electronic communication.

 

Funny how you consistently omit the  fact that the US has set a very low standard in terms of international affairs, in Central/South America, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria among others, and now in the Western Pacific.

 

While you're a it, give some thought to why your president suddenly chooses to show up in Laos, as the first US president ever in history. Peace keeping mission?

 

I see.  You expect others to support their opinions with facts, but exempt yourself from that requirement.

 

Regarding the rest, try to remember that the topic is about China and Thailand.

[ThailandLOS]

12 minutes ago, heybruce said:

 

I see.  You expect others to support their opinions with facts, but exempt yourself from that requirement.

 

Regarding the rest, try to remember that the topic is about China and Thailand.

 

Not feeling like talking about the US anymore huh?

 

Recall you didn't have much against until you got shot down.

[heybruce]

23 minutes ago, heybruce said:

 

I see.  You expect others to support their opinions with facts, but exempt yourself from that requirement.

 

Regarding the rest, try to remember that the topic is about China and Thailand.

 

9 minutes ago, ThailandLOS said:

 

Not feeling like talking about the US anymore huh?

 

Recall you didn't have much against until you got shot down.

Not feeling like discussing the topic; China's outrageous territory grab in the South China Sea?

 

Understandable, it's pretty indefensible.  So are your fact-free assertions.

Edited September 9, 2016 by heybruce
grammar

[ThailandLOS]

You should apply to become a moderator on TV, then you are free to filter out any facts you want.

[heybruce]

6 minutes ago, ThailandLOS said:

You should apply to become a moderator on TV, then you are free to filter out any facts you want.

I can't filter out facts that aren't there.

[chowny77]

For one thing Thailand has no real say in the matter of the South China sea as it does not border it, but for them to say they support China's peaceful approach to basically grab as much as they can is taking the F*$King P^%S. Thailand thinks it has never been colonised which is B&^locks. They are being breed out by the Chinese and it has been happening for centuries, they just don't see this outside of the bubble of Thailand is the center of the universe.

[ThailandLOS]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

I can't filter out facts that aren't there.

 

Here is some more you can filter out:

 

The United States bombs nations in the name of democracy, yet has one of the least democratic and least functioning of the states calling themselves democracies. The U.S. has the lowest voter turnout among wealthy, and lower even than many poor, countries.

 

In early 2014 there were unusual news stories about Gallup’s end-of 2013 polling because after polling in 65 countries with the question “Which country do you think is the greatest threat to peace in the world today?” the overwhelming winner had been the United States of America. In fact, the United States is less generous with aid but more profligate with bombs and missiles than other countries and trails generally in how it treats the rest of the world.

 

There is your "peace keeping" nation for you, on steady decline even lower and thus struggling to keep its "primacy" with all means.

Edited September 9, 2016 by ThailandLOS

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, ThailandLOS said:

 

Here is some more you can filter out:

 

The United States bombs nations in the name of democracy, yet has one of the least democratic and least functioning of the states calling themselves democracies. The U.S. has the lowest voter turnout among wealthy, and lower even than many poor, countries.

 

In early 2014 there were unusual news stories about Gallup’s end-of 2013 polling because after polling in 65 countries with the question “Which country do you think is the greatest threat to peace in the world today?” the overwhelming winner had been the United States of America. In fact, the United States is less generous with aid but more profligate with bombs and missiles than other countries and trails generally in how it treats the rest of the world.

 

There is your "peace keeping" nation for you, on steady decline even lower and thus struggling to keep its "primacy" with all means.

You are desperate to go on an anti-USA rant.  What has the above got to do with the topic?

[autanic]

3 hours ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

 

Nothing gets paid back. From the expressways to the BTS.

The money is stolen (for want of a better phrase) and the original creditors get stiffed.

 

 

Who are they stealing the money from ?

[Thechook]

Thailand was never colonised, are you sure?  They certainly are dancing for the masters

[Lunchbob]

China, Thailand, PI and all of the countries in this neighborhood are coming together nicely. It won't be long until things finally return to common sense. 

[Srikcir]

22 minutes ago, Lunchbob said:

common sense

typo - common nonsense.

 

[Rancid]

On 07/09/2016 at 10:30 PM, ThailandLOS said:

Hawaii's government was overthrown on Jan. 17, 1893, by a relatively small group of men, most of them American by birth or heritage, who seized control of the Islands with the backing of American troops sent ashore from a warship in Honolulu Harbor. To this "superior force of the United States of America," Queen Lili`uokalani yielded her throne, under protest, in order to avoid bloodshed, trusting that the United States government would right the wrong that had been done to her and the Hawaiian people.

Yes, but that was different, it was about bringing democracy and freedom.

 

The Chinese actions in that area are not helpful to regional peace. Seems from their perspective they worry the US can do to them what they did to Japan prior WW2 (and we know how that ended), namely shut down their trade routes at will. Apparently the islands are their only way of projecting military force into the area against a vastly superior US Navy.

 

Expect like most here on this forum I don't see any war tensions in the Asian area as a helpful development. As this is really about military issues, hard to see a resolution to the tension in the near future. Thailand will probably play both sides.

[Srikcir]

5 minutes ago, Rancid said:

the US can do to them what they did to Japan prior WW2

Defeat an imperialistic aggressor who had no respect for a nation's sovereignty other than its own? In fact the US defeat of Japan in WW2 saved China. Maybe you should find another analogy.

 

The China South Sea conflict is about economics - the benefits of natural resources. To pursue its monopolistic claim to the whole of the China South Sea, China is using its military to project its illegal claim. The US along with other nations are using their air and naval forces to keep the sea navigatin open and undeveloped until a resolution can be reached by all parties having claim to the South Sea.

[ThailandLOS]

14 hours ago, heybruce said:

You are desperate to go on an anti-USA rant.  What has the above got to do with the topic?

 

You were the one promoting the US as a "peace keeper" in the Thai/Chinese/Philippino relations. Forgot already?

 

Facts suggest very differently, but you refuse to see the reality of your oh so glorious nation. You are not even able to comprehend and combine simple facts. I am done with you.

[heybruce]

6 minutes ago, ThailandLOS said:

 

You were the one promoting the US as a "peace keeper" in the Thai/Chinese/Philippino relations. Forgot already?

 

Facts suggest very differently, but you refuse to see the reality of your oh so glorious nation. You are not even able to comprehend and combine simple facts. I am done with you.

I replied to your absurd comments, specifically #16, #21, #44, #52, #55, and #57, because they had some tie-ins to the topic.  I never used the term "peace keeper", that is your invention.  The closest I came (not very close) was in post #53 where I wrote: 

 

" The US has treaties and alliances with countries who's territory is being infringed by China's absurd claim to the entire South China Sea.  It is trying to support these allies without provoking a war.  It's not easy." 

 

You replied in post #55 by claiming that the US was attempting to provoke a war.  Of course you provided no evidence to support that claim, it was just your interpretation of events presented as fact.

 

You started to go into conspiracy conjectures with #55, while demanding others to provide facts in #62 which you declined to provide in support of you conspiracy conjectures.  That's when I made a few futile attempts, beginning with #64,  to draw you back on topic and into the real world.  I declined to encourage your off-topic rants, which you clearly find annoying.

 

Once again, the topic is about Thailand supporting China's indefensible claim to most of the South China Sea.  I'm sure you can find other places to post your anti-USA rants, try to stay on-topic here.

 

 

[yardrunner]

On 9/10/2016 at 5:48 AM, Thechook said:

Thailand was never colonised, are you sure?  They certainly are dancing for the masters

No they were not colonised because the UK and france in the 19th century found it more advantageous for Siam to be a buffer state between their colonial empires the same as Afghanistan was a buffer between British India and the Russian Empire