SURVEY: Is Philippine's President Duterte a help or a hindrance to the Philippines?

[tropo]

12 hours ago, swanny321 said:

 

  And your idea of a strong leader is...Marcos I suppose!

He wasn't? 

 

You fail to see the difference. Marco was 48 when he came to power. Duterte really doesn't give a f*** about money, and he's older than Marcos was when his presidency ended.

 

Everyone is trying to pigeon hole Duterte. You can't. He's a unique individual without compare.

Edited September 12, 2016 by tropo

[tropo]

12 hours ago, Briggsy said:

I voted no because he is usurping power from national institutions and the rule of law and transferring it to himself.

Development is based around functioning institutions and the rule of law so his rule is hindering progress.

 

Having said all that, I believe it is in the nature of South East Asians to live under strong autocratic rulers in hierarchical village-like political structures. Western-style democracies will never be accepted and societies here will always revert to type. They lack the self-discipline for a country ruled by law and they lack the bravery to impose a moral code on figures in authority whether that be the president, the local police chief or the village headman.

If you think there was "rule of law" in the Philippines before June 30, you're delusional.

 

The Philippines has always been an incoherent group of islands with nearly zero rule of law, ever. Most provinces operate outside the law. NPA and rich clans run the show in most provinces - taking the law into their own hands. The police do their bidding. You may see some semblance of law and order in the big cities, but it has little reach into the dark jungles of most provinces. If you tried to take one of the rich clansmen to court over an injustice it's very unlikely you'd live long enough to see a single day in court.

 

If Duterte can't break through this, no one can.

[tropo]

12 hours ago, Anthony5 said:

 

That's a good video, put up only yesterday. There's always going to be haters, and the haters are trying to make Duterte look bad.

 

I know of one case in our street in the PI where a couple were selling shabu from their sari-sari store. This is where my brother-in-laws used to score their shabu. They turned themselves in, were documented and let free. They started up again - both are now in jail. Drug dealers who turn themselves in and don't resist arrest are not being shot. That's grossly exaggerated nonsense and explained well in the video.

[tropo]

12 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

 

That video appears to be whitewashing what's really happening.  Duterte is similar to Thaksin, in that they give the green light to cops to shoot anyone they think is involved with drugs.  Granted, many of the deaths are probably by rival drug dealers/gang members.  But still, from all I've heard in the past months, the video sounds like a whitewash.  Duterte has blood on his hands.

LOL> whitewashing my a**. You can actually listen to what Duterte said himself in congress.

 

Do you think drug dealers weren't dying before Duterte came to power? A lot of drug dear dealers have been turning themselves in - they talk - they implicate the big boys, who come after them.

 

What kind of agenda are you guys on? It's like you just want to believe all the media crap and aren't interested in hearing the truth.

 

I doubt you even bothered to watch the tape, and if you did, only a few seconds of it - because it doesn't fit in with your twisted theories.

[tropo]

11 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

How can extrajudicial killing ever be OK?

 

On TV it seems the a backlash against political correctness is an excuse for lawlessness an immorality.

 

What a dreadful world this is becoming 

 

I note that many Philipinos who have surrendered are then summarily executed. How can that be OK? Look, I'm an aetheist but these people are supposed to be Christians. Where's the morality.

 

They are executing users as well as pushers.

That's some serious accusations you're spouting there... and you're posted the same post about 4 times! Please supply some evidence to back up your statement that "many Philippinos (sic) who have surrendered are then summarily executed".

 

You won't find any because it's nonsense. .. and you're claiming many.

Edited September 12, 2016 by tropo

[tropo]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

They can have it then. Best of luck.

Go away! You're not even interested in the Philippines, yet you continue to post anti-Duterte nonsense on here without having a clue what you're on about.

 

I think you're just posting in every thread so you can campaign for Hillary. Forget about it, Trumps going to win.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, tropo said:

Go away! You're not even interested in the Philippines, yet you continue to post anti-Duterte nonsense on here without having a clue what you're on about.

 

I think you're just posting in every thread so you can campaign for Hillary. Forget about it, Trumps going to win.

Dude, it's not your role to order other members away. If you don't want to read my posts, put me on your IGNORE list. 

I won't otherwise reply to your outrageously personally and FALSE baiting accusation.

Duterte is indeed a murderous bully ... doesn't mean you can bully others from sharing their thoughts about him here. 

Edited September 12, 2016 by Jingthing

[tropo]

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Dude, it's not your role to order other members away. If you don't want to read my posts, put me on your IGNORE list. 

I won't otherwise reply to your outrageously personally and FALSE baiting accusation.

Duterte is indeed a murderous bully ... doesn't mean you can bully others from sharing their thoughts about him here. 

No, you're right, it's not my role... but it's good to let you know.

 

I don't put anyone on ignore.  

Edited September 12, 2016 by tropo

[Jingthing]

I  certainly get the attraction to Duterte with certain personality types. Watch out ... it's already a FATAL attraction for so many innocent people there. 

[tropo]

Just now, Jingthing said:

I  certainly get the attraction to Duterte with certain personality types. Watch out ... it's already a FATAL attraction for so many innocent people there. 

The 90% of Filipino people you claimed loved him - what is their personality type?

 

That sounds remarkably similar to Hillary's "Trump supporters are deplorable" comment.

 

Nice one!

 

[Briggsy]

9 hours ago, tropo said:

If you think there was "rule of law" in the Philippines before June 30, you're delusional.

 

The Philippines has always been an incoherent group of islands with nearly zero rule of law, ever. Most provinces operate outside the law. NPA and rich clans run the show in most provinces - taking the law into their own hands. The police do their bidding. You may see some semblance of law and order in the big cities, but it has little reach into the dark jungles of most provinces. If you tried to take one of the rich clansmen to court over an injustice it's very unlikely you'd live long enough to see a single day in court.

 

If Duterte can't break through this, no one can.

I think you have misunderstood my post. .

 

I don't disagree with anything you have said except your final one-sentence paragraph.

 

I also believe your description of the political structures in the Philippines is the natural structure for South East Asia. By that, I mean if external forces and pressures move it from this position, it will return to it as soon as the external pressure is removed.

 

The rule of law is not black and white but rather a point on a spectrum. I believe Duterte's feudal lord way of ruling have moved the Philippines from, say, the 99th percentile to the 100th percentile on this spectrum.

 

I am not delusional. Perhaps you have had a couple of cans of beer and are a little bit drunk and tending to hyperbole.

[tonbridgebrit]

19 hours ago, Jingthing said:

They can have it then. Best of luck.

Yes, but it's not only just a case of whether the people of the Philippines want Duterte or not. Washington also comes into it.
As in, will Washington tolerate this man ?  And how long for ?

 

[lovelomsak]

1 hour ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Yes, but it's not only just a case of whether the people of the Philippines want Duterte or not. Washington also comes into it.
As in, will Washington tolerate this man ?  And how long for ?

 

You seem to think the USA has a say in what happens in the Philippines. 

  Duterte is the elected leader with 90% of the population in support of his policies. America can comment but should keep their nose out of it.

  It has nothing to do with America tolerating  what happens in the Philippines. As was said before the Philippines is not a colony of America.

  What right does America have to intervene with an elected leader in a democratic country. 

 If told to leave and do not leave what is that? An act of war? War against an elected government with 90% support. Makes America really look like the defender of democracy huh.

[Grouse]

On 12 September 2016 at 11:33 AM, lovelomsak said:

Your statement about how many surrender then are executed I think the number is zero at the moment. So why bother even mentioning it?

 Usual politicial correct bullsh&t

 

It was reported on BBC Radio 4 yesterday.

[Grouse]

14 hours ago, tropo said:

That's some serious accusations you're spouting there... and you're posted the same post about 4 times! Please supply some evidence to back up your statement that "many Philippinos (sic) who have surrendered are then summarily executed".

 

You won't find any because it's nonsense. .. and you're claiming many.

 

I did apologise for multiple postings and asked for their removal. Some bug in the new system.

 

My statement was taken from BBC Radio 4 yesterday morning. They were actually discussing the difference in numbers posted by various groups.....

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Yes, but it's not only just a case of whether the people of the Philippines want Duterte or not. Washington also comes into it.
As in, will Washington tolerate this man ?  And how long for ?

 

Yes they will "tolerate" him but the way it's going what were very good relations between the two nations are going to deteriorate, perhaps badly. Some of us  including me think that's a negative thing for both.

[lovelomsak]

24 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

I did apologise for multiple postings and asked for their removal. Some bug in the new system.

 

My statement was taken from BBC Radio 4 yesterday morning. They were actually discussing the difference in numbers posted by various groups.....

So you say you heard this on the radio  what you have here is heresay. at best second party news.

[tuky]

Guys, du30 won 38% of the vote to achieve the presidency. It wasnt a landslide, it wasnt a case of the majority, it was a case of more voted for him than the other 4 candidates.

 

After he was sworn in, a sample of X% of the population were polled as to their TRUST in du30. That result was +/- 90% of that sample.

It is not indicative of how many people wanted him in power, it shows that now he is power 90% of those polled decided to trust him...nothing they can do about it now, may as well trust him kind of thing.

 

Slowly that trust is eroding, google the 5 year old girl murdered in the war on drugs, he grandfather had handed himself in to police 3 days prior, but he was not at home when the death squad came and a 5 year old was killed in his stead. As it happens the grandfather was killed a few days later anyway.

 

Now du30 has told Jokowi to go ahead and kill mary jane in words that we will never know, denied by du30's keepers but confirmed by Jokowi. Mary Jane's death sentence was commuted until until the result of the trial in the Phils of the woman who put the drugs in MJs suitcase.

Research du30s record on fighting against the death penalty, in particular a 1995 case where a filippina was on death row in Singapore.

 

The Phils needs a strong man, but not a murderer, nothing good can come from murdering your own citizens no matter the intentions.

Now the Indos are talking about introducing an extra judicial killing policy too, foogle that also.

 

Hmm, if only these guys could google how well Thaksins murderous war on drugs turned out.

 

I voted no, nothing good will eventuate from du30, not just Rody, but the next president who will be his daughter, and the next which will be his son.

Right the way down to young Kitty Duterte 20/30 years from now.

 

As one poster said in the thread about du30 fixing the traffic problem in Manila, there wont be enough people left in the Phils to cause a traffic jam.

 

[tropo]

9 hours ago, Briggsy said:

I think you have misunderstood my post. .

 

I don't disagree with anything you have said except your final one-sentence paragraph.

 

I also believe your description of the political structures in the Philippines is the natural structure for South East Asia. By that, I mean if external forces and pressures move it from this position, it will return to it as soon as the external pressure is removed.

 

The rule of law is not black and white but rather a point on a spectrum. I believe Duterte's feudal lord way of ruling have moved the Philippines from, say, the 99th percentile to the 100th percentile on this spectrum.

 

I am not delusional. Perhaps you have had a couple of cans of beer and are a little bit drunk and tending to hyperbole.

 

There's  no need to insult a poster just because you don't agree - I'm a non-drinker and make all my posts in a lucid state. Perhaps you're the one posting drunk. 

 

You completely misunderstood. Duterte is trying to clean up the mess, not hold onto the system. The Philippines is rather unique (with the exception of Indonesia) as it is not one land mass and communication and travel is difficult.

[tropo]

5 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Yes, but it's not only just a case of whether the people of the Philippines want Duterte or not. Washington also comes into it.
As in, will Washington tolerate this man ?  And how long for ?

 

They've been very tolerant to the Thai General. They didn't put much pressure on him, did they? I'd say Duterte will continue his course without too much outside interference. It will be interesting to see how well he gets on with Trump when he's elected.

[Jingthing]

40 minutes ago, tropo said:

They've been very tolerant to the Thai General. They didn't put much pressure on him, did they? I'd say Duterte will continue his course without too much outside interference. It will be interesting to see how well he gets on with Trump when he's elected.

That won't ever happen but based on Duterte's rhetoric I'd say that trump would be less "tolerant" of Duterte's rabid anti-Americanism than any democratic administration which would be more realpolitik diplomatic. 

 

trump is the one who said he wouldn't have gotten off the plane in China for being dissed about no red carpet. Imagine how trump would react to Duterte's anti-American showboating with graphic pictures of bodies from colonial times.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Jingthing

[tropo]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That won't ever happen but based on Duterte's rhetoric I'd say that trump would be less "tolerant" of Duterte's rabid anti-Americanism than any democratic administration which would be more realpolitik diplomatic. 

 

trump is the one who said he wouldn't have gotten off the plane in China for being dissed about no red carpet. Imagine how trump would react to Duterte's anti-American showboating with graphic pictures of bodies from colonial times.

Would you believe Duterte happens to be a Trump fan?

 

 

[Jingthing]

40 minutes ago, tropo said:

Would you believe Duterte happens to be a Trump fan?

 

 

I'd believe anything about either bombastic moron.

trump loves putin.

So what? 

[tropo]

17 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'd believe anything about either bombastic moron.

trump loves putin.

So what? 

So... they'll probably get on better than you think, just as Putin and Trump probably will, if he is elected. It's not always just about the country, but the leader too...

 

Perhaps it's more about Obama than the US. He's not getting much respect anywhere.

 

Remember what happened after Reagan was elected? All the hostages in Iran were released within minutes of his inauguration. 

Edited September 13, 2016 by tropo

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, tropo said:

So... they'll probably get on better than you think, just as Putin and Trump probably will, if he is elected. It's not always just about the country, but the leader too...

 

Perhaps it's more about Obama than the US. He's not getting much respect anywhere.

 

Remember what happened after Reagan was elected? All the hostages came home from Iran.

You'll never find out because the majority of Americans, including the majority of republicans correctly think that trump is a bigot. 

Also your point is absurdly illogical. Duterte wants U.S. out. Do you think that trump wants that too? U.S. military cooperation is a BIPARTISAN issue. 

Edited September 13, 2016 by Jingthing

[tropo]

18 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You'll never find out because the majority of Americans, including the majority of republicans correctly think that trump is a bigot. 

Also your point is absurdly illogical. Duterte wants U.S. out. Do you think that trump wants that too? U.S. military cooperation is a BIPARTISAN issue. 

(here you go again - you disagree with a comment, so it's "absurdly illogical" - and you complain about how you're treated on here when people respond in kind?)

 

Your comment is based on absurdly limited information. Who told you Duterte wants the US out? He didn't want Obama interfering with his drug war - that was all this kerfuffle was about. It was already known that Obama was going to confront him on his methods, that's why he retaliated. It's also documented that he apologized and regrets his comments.

 

If you stop making assumptions about everything related to Duterte, and do some homework, you'll learn what's really going on.

 

The Philippines ordered the US out in 1991, yet they have had good relations since then.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/28/world/philippines-orders-us-to-leave-strategic-navy-base-at-subic-bay.html?pagewanted=all

 

The relationship is not as fragile as you think it is.

 

 

Edited September 13, 2016 by tropo

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, tropo said:

(here you go again - you disagree with a comment, so it's "absurdly illogical" - and you complain about how you're treated on here when people respond in kind?)

 

Your comment is based on absurdly limited information. Who told you Duterte wants the US out? He didn't want Obama interfering with his drug war - that was all this kerfuffle was about. It was already known that Obama was going to confront him on his methods, that's why he retaliated. It's also documented that he apologized and regrets his comments.

 

If you stop making assumptions about everything related to Duterte, and do some homework, you'll learn what's really going on.

I attacked your point. Which was absurd.

 

Who told me the bombastic mass murdering Duterte wants the U.S. out?

Hilarious you're ordering me to do homework.

HERE!

 

Edited September 13, 2016 by Jingthing

[tuky]

Imagine a Putin, Trump, Duterte, Assad, Kim Jong Un, Mao successor kind of world.

 

Folks, we are not talking simply meglomaniac soon to be regretted leader of a poor developing country, we could be talking about a possible new alliance of despots.

Those that support the murder of drug suspects by default support the murder of gays, of overstayers, of anyone that looks bored when Dear Leader is speaking.

 

The whole point is that this is bigger than one leader, this is about humanity and how we treat others, how we want to be treated by others.

 

What message is Duterte sending the Abu Sayaaf? The M.I.L.F?

Oh, we can kill people outside the rule of law, but heaven forbid you explode a bomb in a night market in Davao you evil mongrels. By heck we will retaliate.

 

Lets look big picture, not small.

If Duterte keeps getting away with it, how will your beloved Thai Junta respond? Will you guys still be so supportive if the General decides to follow suit?

Were you guy all supportive of Thaksins war on drugs? Worked out well right?

How about the Tak Bai massacre?

 

Is that world, a world run by thugs like Duterte, Assad, Mugabi the sort of world you want to live in? The sort of world you want your kids to grow up in?

 

Or would you rather a world where education is foremost, where people have options, a voice and a choice?

 

I live in Double (actually triple, but it doesnt rhyme) Duterte Davao and I dont feel like I live in a safe place, in a safe world.

Here I have seen a guy shot down in the street by the police, two friends have been murdered, two other friends have had to leave by threat of death.

All were human beings, no bovines among them. Two of my friends smoked pot, the other two I dont know why.

 

I lived in real fear for a few weeks, because all these guys have been to my house a few times, now I only stress when I hear the local dog bark.

All I do is drink, but am I associated now? Am I on a watch list?

My other friend told me dont worry, if they knew I was here I would be dead already.

I dont do drugs...

 

Those Duterte supporters, is that the life you would want to live?

 

Please think big picture, this kind of governance can be infectious.

 

Nobody has the right to call life over death. Outside the rule of law.

[tropo]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I attacked your point. Which was absurd.

 

Who told me the bombastic mass murdering Duterte wants the U.S. out?

Hilarious you're ordering me to do homework.

HERE!

 

I'd already read that, but thanks for linking it up...

 

You're overreacting, again. One of his election promises was that he was going to make a huge effort to bring peace to the South. It's fairly obvious from the historical record that American military in that area are not helping matters, and in fact making things worse. Duterte has lived in the south all of his life... he's the first president from the south... he's knows a lot about the South and the complexities of the Moro conflict there. The US military presence in the South has been a waste of time and resources.

 

Getting US military out of the South is not the same as kicking them out of the country. I didn't know what "out" you were talking about. I interpreted it as a complete withdrawal from the country.

 

[tropo]

2 hours ago, tuky said:

Imagine a Putin, Trump, Duterte, Assad, Kim Jong Un, Mao successor kind of world.

 

Folks, we are not talking simply meglomaniac soon to be regretted leader of a poor developing country, we could be talking about a possible new alliance of despots.

Those that support the murder of drug suspects by default support the murder of gays, of overstayers, of anyone that looks bored when Dear Leader is speaking.

 

The whole point is that this is bigger than one leader, this is about humanity and how we treat others, how we want to be treated by others.

 

What message is Duterte sending the Abu Sayaaf? The M.I.L.F?

Oh, we can kill people outside the rule of law, but heaven forbid you explode a bomb in a night market in Davao you evil mongrels. By heck we will retaliate.

 

Lets look big picture, not small.

If Duterte keeps getting away with it, how will your beloved Thai Junta respond? Will you guys still be so supportive if the General decides to follow suit?

Were you guy all supportive of Thaksins war on drugs? Worked out well right?

How about the Tak Bai massacre?

 

Is that world, a world run by thugs like Duterte, Assad, Mugabi the sort of world you want to live in? The sort of world you want your kids to grow up in?

 

Or would you rather a world where education is foremost, where people have options, a voice and a choice?

 

I live in Double (actually triple, but it doesnt rhyme) Duterte Davao and I dont feel like I live in a safe place, in a safe world.

Here I have seen a guy shot down in the street by the police, two friends have been murdered, two other friends have had to leave by threat of death.

All were human beings, no bovines among them. Two of my friends smoked pot, the other two I dont know why.

 

I lived in real fear for a few weeks, because all these guys have been to my house a few times, now I only stress when I hear the local dog bark.

All I do is drink, but am I associated now? Am I on a watch list?

My other friend told me dont worry, if they knew I was here I would be dead already.

I dont do drugs...

 

Those Duterte supporters, is that the life you would want to live?

 

Please think big picture, this kind of governance can be infectious.

 

Nobody has the right to call life over death. Outside the rule of law.

It's about time you watched this video. Only 20 people have watched it since yesterday, so there's a good chance you missed it.

 

This is not some fictional compilation - it's Dutertes own words:

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2016 by tropo