SURVEY: Is Philippine's President Duterte a help or a hindrance to the Philippines?

[Scotwight]

2 minutes ago, tropo said:

It's about time you watched this video. Only 20 people have watched it since yesterday, so there's a good chance you missed it.

 

This is not some fictional compilation - it's Dutertes own words:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/28/world/philippines-orders-us-to-leave-strategic-navy-base-at-subic-bay.html?pagewanted=all

The video is not Duterte it's from 1991NYT

[tropo]

Just now, Scotwight said:

The video is not Duterte it's from 1991NYT

Sorry, you caught my post before I edited it to display the video. That was on my clipboard.

[Publicus]

On 9/12/2016 at 0:04 AM, happy Joe said:

We can see the results of an unwavering allegiance of his predecessors to the great America:
Philippines today is one of the poorest countries in the world, plagued by an endemic mafia, corrupt officials and the same for leaders. Of course as anywhere with US military base, thousands of whores.

 

Notes that Pattaya is a paradise compared to Angeles City

 

I think it will be successful in its fight against the traffickers. I also think it will be closer to China and take some distance with the West as almost all nations of the region. Difficult to speculate on the benefits of these new alliances, but this country does not have much to lose.

 

At last it is expected on the settlement of territorial disputes on southern Muslim. The task is difficult and complex. It should however be noted that on Mindanao, tourist kidnappers and bombers stop at the gates of his city, Davao.

 

on Mindanao, tourist kidnappers and bombers stop at the gates of his city, Davao.

 

Looks like you missed it and it was only last week...

Explosion hits Davao night market

September 02, 2016

At least 14 people are killed and more than 60 others injured in the blast

http://www.rappler.com/nation/145033-explosion-roxas-night-market-davao-city 

[tuky]

Tropo, I saw that video a long time before. It was great propaganda, and edited to the hilt.

 

Now, go to youtube even and search duterte davao death squad, watch those videos. They are real. Dont stop at one, watch them all.

 

After watching now tell me he is not an animal...

 

I would fully support him if he was to use his aggression to support the police in lawful arrests, in training the police to educate people. In providing jobs for the people, in providing a future for the Philippines. I will never support a policy of shoot to kill.

Did you notice he has cut the national health budget by 25% ?

If you are so well informed then answer this question, I dare you...

 

What % has he increased the presidential office/entertainment budget?

 

 

[tuky]

What % has he increased the presidential office/entertainment budget

 

 

Anyone???

[tropo]

15 minutes ago, tuky said:

Tropo, I saw that video a long time before. It was great propaganda, and edited to the hilt.

 

Now, go to youtube even and search duterte davao death squad, watch those videos. They are real. Dont stop at one, watch them all.

 

After watching now tell me he is not an animal...

 

I would fully support him if he was to use his aggression to support the police in lawful arrests, in training the police to educate people. In providing jobs for the people, in providing a future for the Philippines. I will never support a policy of shoot to kill.

Did you notice he has cut the national health budget by 25% ?

If you are so well informed then answer this question, I dare you...

 

What % has he increased the presidential office/entertainment budget?

 

 

You saw that video a long time before? It was only just put up. You didn't watch it, did you?

 

There is no shoot to kill order. Drug dealers are not being executed by the government. If you have a specific video you'd like me to watch, go ahead, send the link.

 

For example, this video shows some people being shot on the street. Who's doing the shooting? Who's being shot? It's impossible to know, but it's another good example dirty propaganda - using Duterte's name and blaming him for it. 

 

 

 

 

He has already revamped Phil Health Care. I've had 5 family members in hospital over the last 6 weeks - the deductions were at least 4 times what they were prior to May.

 

 

 

[tonbridgebrit]

11 hours ago, lovelomsak said:

You seem to think the USA has a say in what happens in the Philippines. 

  Duterte is the elected leader with 90% of the population in support of his policies. America can comment but should keep their nose out of it.

  It has nothing to do with America tolerating  what happens in the Philippines. As was said before the Philippines is not a colony of America.

  What right does America have to intervene with an elected leader in a democratic country. 

 If told to leave and do not leave what is that? An act of war? War against an elected government with 90% support. Makes America really look like the defender of democracy huh.

Okay, I certainly reckon that the Philippines should be allowed to elect their own leader, I certainly don't think it's good if Washington has a say in what happens in the Philippines.
"What right does America have to intervene with an elected leader in a democratic country ?".   The answer: should be NONE.

What I'm trying to say, is, is that I reckon that Washington certainly does have power and influence in the Philippines.  I believe that Washington has actually got enough power and influence to remove most of the leaders in the ASEAN countries. As far as Washington is concerned, well, it's just that it has to look good IF they go ahead and do it.

I cetainly don't support such action from Washington.  

 

[Jingthing]

 Wrong.

Washington doesn't have the power to remove even one Asean leader.

[tonbridgebrit]

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes they will "tolerate" him but the way it's going what were very good relations between the two nations are going to deteriorate, perhaps badly. Some of us  including me think that's a negative thing for both.

Okay, so IF things 'deteriorate' badly between the two nations (America and the Phils), do you reckon it will be a good idea to basically remove him, remove Duterte ?

 

[Jingthing]

Just now, tonbridgebrit said:

Okay, so IF things 'deteriorate' badly between the two nations (America and the Phils), do you reckon it will be a good idea to basically remove him, remove Duterte ?

 

Not sure what you're on about. When he's removed, it will be a matter for the Philippines. 

[tonbridgebrit]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

 Wrong.

Washington doesn't have the power to remove even one Asean leader.

You're being too modest about Washington's power.  
I say with a smirk on my face, they can do it. There's at least a few Americans here who share my view. It's just that, they are cheering on Washington, but I'm not.

 

[Jingthing]

Just now, tonbridgebrit said:

You're being too modest about Washington's power.  
I say with a smirk on my face, they can do it. There's at least a few Americans here who share my view. It's just that, they are cheering on Washington, but I'm not.

 

Conspiracy theory crapola is what you're promoting.

[tuky]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

You saw that video a long time before? It was only just put up. You didn't watch it, did you?

 

There is no shoot to kill order. Drug dealers are not being executed by the government. If you have a specific video you'd like me to watch, go ahead, send the link.

 

For example, this video shows some people being shot on the street. Who's doing the shooting? Who's being shot? It's impossible to know, but it's another good example dirty propaganda - using Duterte's name and blaming him for it. 

 

 

 

 

He has already revamped Phil Health Care. I've had 5 family members in hospital over the last 6 weeks - the deductions were at least 4 times what they were prior to May.

 

 

 

 

Your video proves my point tropo.

Any government worth their salt should be fighting against this, not supporting it.

Fail on you behalf...big time.

[tropo]

37 minutes ago, tuky said:

 

Your video proves my point tropo.

Any government worth their salt should be fighting against this, not supporting it.

Fail on you behalf...big time.

You don't win a debate by saying someone has failed. You need to explain the reasons why.

 

That's more than a fail - it's a non-starter.

 

Try harder next time.

 

 

 

 

[anotheruser]

This survey is so poorly worded I voted yes. I don't really believe Duterte is a wise and beneficial leader but there were only two choices, so I chose the lesser of two evils. Somebody should stop Scott from making more pollls.

[CharlieK]

On 9/12/2016 at 0:15 AM, tropo said:

Not even close:

 

GDP: 30th /230

 

PPP: 153rd /229

 

The main reason the country is in such a poor state is because of the high birth rate.

 

34% of the population are 14 years of age or under - 34 million

43% of the population are 24 years of age or under - 43 million

 

Let's look at Thailand by comparison:

 

17% of the population are 14 years of age or under - 11.7 million

 

Duterte had it right. The Catholic Church is mainly responsible for the problem, insisting on no birth control. Where is the Catholic Church when the people need to be fed? Nowhere to be seen.

 

Something Catholicism and Islam have in common. If you are good you're reward is a place in heaven!  

[CharlieK]

2 hours ago, anotheruser said:

This survey is so poorly worded I voted yes. I don't really believe Duterte is a wise and beneficial leader but there were only two choices, so I chose the lesser of two evils. Somebody should stop Scott from making more pollls.

 

So killing small time dealers and users is the lesser of two evils? Rather than go after the Mr bigs? Thaksin tried that, look where it got him. duterte will end up like marcos, that type of person gets to think he can do what he likes even if eventually it sets him against the majority.    

[noodle]

Following in Taksins footsteps is hardly likely to solve a problem caused by prohibition.

[tropo]

10 hours ago, CharlieK said:

 

Something Catholicism and Islam have in common. If you are good you're reward is a place in heaven!  

The biggest difference I see in the two is that you can insult one and live. Insulting the other can be deadly.

[tropo]

10 hours ago, CharlieK said:

 

So killing small time dealers and users is the lesser of two evils? Rather than go after the Mr bigs? Thaksin tried that, look where it got him. duterte will end up like marcos, that type of person gets to think he can do what he likes even if eventually it sets him against the majority.    

There's absolutely no need to worry about Duterte becoming another Marcos. There seems to be a lot of forum members concerned about this. Just for starters, Marcos consolidated his power (and bank account) over a 20 years period, starting at age 48. Duterte is already over 71 and not in great health. Also, Duterte doesn't have a wife requiring 1000 pairs of shoes.

 

I'd venture to say that the drug problem was minor during the Marcos years compared to pre June 2016. A long succession of weak presidents have left the Philippines in a deplorable state.

 

We should also consider this, before worrying too much:

 

"Today, under Article 7, Section 4 of the 1987 Constitution of the Philippines, the term of the President shall begin at noon on the thirtieth day of June next following the day of the election and shall end at noon of the same date, six years thereafter. The incumbent President shall not be eligible for any re-election."

Edited September 14, 2016 by tropo

[Jingthing]

That is so idiotically naive! First of all you don't know his life expectancy and secondly it's well known strong man murderous dictators don't respect constitutions. Which can be changed. You can see that in many countries.

[tuky]

7 hours ago, tropo said:

There's absolutely no need to worry about Duterte becoming another Marcos. There seems to be a lot of forum members concerned about this. Just for starters, Marcos consolidated his power (and bank account) over a 20 years period, starting at age 48. Duterte is already over 71 and not in great health. Also, Duterte doesn't have a wife requiring 1000 pairs of shoes.

 

I'd venture to say that the drug problem was minor during the Marcos years compared to pre June 2016. A long succession of weak presidents have left the Philippines in a deplorable state.

 

We should also consider this, before worrying too much:

 

"Today, under Article 7, Section 4 of the 1987 Constitution of the Philippines, the term of the President shall begin at noon on the thirtieth day of June next following the day of the election and shall end at noon of the same date, six years thereafter. The incumbent President shall not be eligible for any re-election."

 

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That is so idiotically naive! First of all you don't know his life expectancy and secondly it's well known strong man murderous dictators don't respect constitutions. Which can be changed. You can see that in many countries.

Lets not forget that Rody isnt the only duterte, he may be 71 but his kids are following in his footsteps. 

Daughter, Mayor of Davao

Son, vice mayor.

 

If we are talking  Ferdinand Marcos taking 20 years, then we already have the next nepotistic dictatorship. Just like N. Korea.

 

How does that fit in with the constitution Tropo?

Philippine Laws.

The 1987 Constitution of the Philippines states in Article II Section 26, "The State shall guarantee equal access to opportunities for public service, and prohibit political dynasties as may be defined by law."

 

Please tell me the way Davao has be run by the Duterte dynasty over the last 22 years is constitutional?

And please try to convince me that the Duterte plan isnt to have the daughter, and then the son, and even eventually Kitty Duterte installed as President?

 

Look at their Davao mayoral record...

This is worse than Marcos, even tou have to agree with that my friend.

[tropo]

2 hours ago, tuky said:

 

Lets not forget that Rody isnt the only duterte, he may be 71 but his kids are following in his footsteps. 

Daughter, Mayor of Davao

Son, vice mayor.

 

If we are talking  Ferdinand Marcos taking 20 years, then we already have the next nepotistic dictatorship. Just like N. Korea.

 

How does that fit in with the constitution Tropo?

Philippine Laws.

The 1987 Constitution of the Philippines states in Article II Section 26, "The State shall guarantee equal access to opportunities for public service, and prohibit political dynasties as may be defined by law."

 

Please tell me the way Davao has be run by the Duterte dynasty over the last 22 years is constitutional?

And please try to convince me that the Duterte plan isnt to have the daughter, and then the son, and even eventually Kitty Duterte installed as President?

 

Look at their Davao mayoral record...

This is worse than Marcos, even tou have to agree with that my friend.

(Well done! You made a better effort this time but just because you're convinced of something does NOT mean I have to agree, my friend)

 

Maybe this, maybe that... it's all theories and we can try to predict the future, but...

 

I disagree!

 

Hey - let's just agree to disagree?

 

He did a great job in Davao. One of the safest cities in the world, IN the Philippines. That's incredible! If I move back to the Philippines, that city is one of my top choices.

 

I've had guns pulled on me in the streets, in the Philippines. If making it safer requires a curfew and/or squads, I'm all for it. I'm not particularly sympathetic to drug dealers.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2016 by tropo

[Britphils]

Picking up on various points made.

 

The birth rate is declining and has been for a few years. This will be improved greatly as Duterte is implementing the policy of free contraceptives for the poor.

 

health budget reduced by 25%. This ignores the fact that all gambling revenue (big business here) is being directed to healthcare. Overal health spending will increase.

 

President's office budget increased from 2.8 billion peso to 20 billion peso. 15 billion of this is a one off to pay for the ASEAN conference next year. This money will be allocated to other departments as required. 

 

Duterte has not asked US troops to leave. He has asked a hundred or so US special forces to leave the combat area as they are high value targets. There will be considerably more US troops in the Philippines next year under the new agreement.

 

From someone who lives here I can tell you life in my poor area is already getting better. From a murder a month in our area to zero. Armed holdups were common. Not one now. Police don't ask for bribes. Government officials dare not be corrupt. No late night karaoke! 

 

2 police have been charged with murder, 300 under investigation. 303 people charged with "vigilante" killings. 10 police, 5 military killed in shootouts. If the killings are extra-judicial executions those figures are strange.

 

No opposition killed or arrested, (though allies of Duterte have been publicly named by him as drug offenders), no journalists killed (132 were killed over previous years), no suppression of a highly critical media, no removal of rights. Public protests allowed. If this is a dictatorship it is an unusual one.

[tuky]

8 hours ago, tropo said:

(Well done! You made a better effort this time but just because you're convinced of something does NOT mean I have to agree, my friend)

 

Maybe this, maybe that... it's all theories and we can try to predict the future, but...

 

I disagree!

 

Hey - let's just agree to disagree?

 

He did a great job in Davao. One of the safest cities in the world, IN the Philippines. That's incredible! If I move back to the Philippines, that city is one of my top choices.

 

I've had guns pulled on me in the streets, in the Philippines. If making it safer requires a curfew and/or squads, I'm all for it. I'm not particularly sympathetic to drug dealers.

 

 

 

 

 

It is fun though right? but you are correct Tropo, we all have our own opinions. Neither of us are 100% correct. Thanks for the debate, I will always listen and consider the other sides points, thanks for that.

BTW, where did you get your info on Davao being one of the safest cities in the world? I cant find anything to back that up, I live in Davao and I am interested to know how you came up with that statement.

[DipStick]

As someone else has mentioned, his daughter is the mayor of Davao , whilst his son Paolo is the vice mayor, are they elected ?, or is this Filipino nepotism at its best.

anyhow the headlines in today's PDI newspaper makes interesting reading, . Paolo has been outed as a drug user ! And this from one of his security people who also confesses be a hit man !

this could be a very interesting topic to keep watching.

[Opl]

Rodrigo Duterte shot an officer and ordered the murder of opponents when he was mayor, said today before the Philippine Senate a man posing as a "killer" repented in explosive testimony against the president.

 Matobato Edgar, 57, launched the accusations before the investigating Senate committee on the resurgence of killings since Duterte's presidential inauguration on June 30

read more : https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/15/philippines-president-drug-dealers-rodrigo-duterte-extrajudicial-killings-crocodile

 

[tropo]

6 hours ago, tuky said:

 

It is fun though right? but you are correct Tropo, we all have our own opinions. Neither of us are 100% correct. Thanks for the debate, I will always listen and consider the other sides points, thanks for that.

BTW, where did you get your info on Davao being one of the safest cities in the world? I cant find anything to back that up, I live in Davao and I am interested to know how you came up with that statement.

Yes, it is fun, as long as we're respectful of others' opinions and of course realise we're all just guessing and watching the show as it progresses. 

 

This is from June last year:

 

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/125132/davao-city-improves-to-5th-in-ranking-of-worlds-safest-cities

 

May last year:

 

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/690252/davao-city-ranks-as-9th-safest-in-the-world

 

June last year:

 

http://www.sunstar.com.ph/davao/local-news/2015/06/23/davao-now-4th-safest-city-414856

 

 

 

 

[tropo]

1 hour ago, Opl said:

Rodrigo Duterte shot an officer and ordered the murder of opponents when he was mayor, said today before the Philippine Senate a man posing as a "killer" repented in explosive testimony against the president.

 Matobato Edgar, 57, launched the accusations before the investigating Senate committee on the resurgence of killings since Duterte's presidential inauguration on June 30

read more : https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/15/philippines-president-drug-dealers-rodrigo-duterte-extrajudicial-killings-crocodile

 

There are people masquerading as police officers going around killing people too.

 

Politics is nasty business and there are plenty of people out to get him...

[Jingthing]

When in doubt, for true believers in murderous authoritarian strong man leaders, dig up some conspiracy theories. 

Edited September 15, 2016 by Jingthing