Thinking hard about moving back to the US

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

Well I have posted many times that there are reasons to leave and reasons to stay and it really needs to be decided on a case by case basis. I'm the last person to say everything is perfect in Thailand...or the States. Right now, all things considered, I'm still in but that doesn't mean in a few years I may be out.

 

As for driving, maybe you've never driven in California, where there have been issues for years with "new" arrivals clogging the roads and being unlicensed and uninsured. In addition, Southern Califonia is the hit and run capitol of the country and Nor. Cal, where i'm from isn't far behind. Let me just put it this way: I saw many more accidents driving around the Bay Area on a weekend than I see in a month of driving around Pattaya.

 

FWIW I don't see very many road accidents here, no more so than anywhere else I have lived. That is not to say that those accidents don't happen, I'm certain they do, it's just that I rarely see any. Now near misses is another story altogether!

[Strange]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

 

FWIW I don't see very many road accidents here, no more so than anywhere else I have lived. That is not to say that those accidents don't happen, I'm certain they do, it's just that I rarely see any. Now near misses is another story altogether!

 

You clearly don't drive much nor very far. 

Just got back from BKK and thats about a 350 kilometer trip one way. 

 

Saw 5 accidents with one that had to be fatal involving a motorbike. Another was a completely avoidable rear-end that blocked 3 lanes of traffic FOREVER. 

 

I don't count near misses anymore. Whats the point right? 

[sas_cars]

Strange, how's the thunderstorm and lightning situation in Tampa? I heard it's called the Lightning capital of North America. Is it really that bad?

 

How about the hurrican situation there as well?  I am also comptemplating to retire there later on in life, so wanna have a base in Tampa and agree to nearly all of your points you have been mentioning in this thread.

[chiang mai]

11 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

You clearly don't drive much nor very far. 

Just got back from BKK and thats about a 350 kilometer trip one way. 

 

Saw 5 accidents with one that had to be fatal involving a motorbike. Another was a completely avoidable rear-end that blocked 3 lanes of traffic FOREVER. 

 

I don't count near misses anymore. Whats the point right? 

 

I drive 15,000 miles every year, Mae Rim to CM and back (44 kms) almost every day etc etc.

[OMGImInPattaya]

26 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

You clearly don't drive much nor very far. 

Just got back from BKK and thats about a 350 kilometer trip one way. 

 

Saw 5 accidents with one that had to be fatal involving a motorbike. Another was a completely avoidable rear-end that blocked 3 lanes of traffic FOREVER. 

 

I don't count near misses anymore. Whats the point right? 

Try I-5 from SF to LA...just as many if not more. The point being there are accidents in all countries...and I don't find driving in Thailand any more dangerous than at least urban areas of the US.

Edited October 3, 2016 by OMGImInPattaya

[Strange]

6 minutes ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

Try I-5 from SF to LA...just as many if not more. The point being there are accidents in all countries...and I don't find driving in Thailand any more dangerous than at least urban areas of the US.

 

OK you think driving in urban areas of the US is the same as driving in Thailand. 

 

I don't agree. Not even a little. Especially when you consider the police that actually police, emergency services that will come and cut the car away from you if needed. Helicopter transport if needed. 

[chiang mai]

I can't compare against the US because I've not lived there for a long time, but driving in Thailand compared to the UK is challenging and certainly more dangerous I feel, you have to be alert 360 degrees, 24/7 whereas in the UK others will compensate for some of your mistakes.

[Strange]

26 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

I drive 15,000 miles every year, Mae Rim to CM and back (44 kms) almost every day etc etc.

 

Driving in your safe sphere is hardly indicative of anything. 

[OMGImInPattaya]

5 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

OK you think driving in urban areas of the US is the same as driving in Thailand. 

 

I don't agree. Not even a little. Especially when you consider the police that actually police, emergency services that will come and cut the car away from you if needed. Helicopter transport if needed. 

Well now you're talking about all sorts of other things...I talking about the act of driving, which I find more or less the same in terms of stress and dangerousness.

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, Strange said:

 

Driving in your safe sphere is hardly indicative of anything. 

 

Dude, I've driven Chiang Mai/Phuket five times and all over Thailand, easily 300k miles in 15 years. The fact that I now drive a similar route most days means no more or no less than the holiday maker who drives say Chiang Mai Bangkok once in his life.

[Strange]

Just now, OMGImInPattaya said:

Well now you're talking about all sorts of other things...I talking about the act of driving, which I find more or less the same in terms of stress and dangerousness.

 

Nope its all under the same topic of driving. 

 

Even then, take it all out, and use your terms of stress and safety, I still don't agree. 

[OMGImInPattaya]

2 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

Nope its all under the same topic of driving. 

 

Even then, take it all out, and use your terms of stress and safety, I still don't agree. 

That's fine. 

 

I'm not gonna argue that the Thai roadside emergency services are on par with any in a developed country...that's a silly statement. If such is important to you, you should definitely consider moving to another country...and pay the high property and income taxes that support such lavish emergency services (which 99% of the population will never use).

Edited October 3, 2016 by OMGImInPattaya

[Strange]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

 

Dude, I've driven Chiang Mai/Phuket five times and all over Thailand, easily 300k miles in 15 years. The fact that I now drive a similar route most days means no more or no less than the holiday maker who drives say Chiang Mai Bangkok once in his life.

 

And? 

 

What are you trying to prove? 

Im not a holiday maker, nor tourist. Im just not buying the BS people are spouting about how safe it is driving here. Ive had several cars here, drive everywhere, and will continue to drive, but it does not change anything. Still dangerous. And more dangerous than the majority of the USA. 

[MobileContent]

On 9/13/2016 at 1:09 AM, autanic said:

 

 

Thailand is not so cheap anymore friend. You also have the problem that the Government of Thailand does not want you in Thailand. Which means their media will brainwash the population in to not wanting you there soon too.  Who wants to live like that, not me.

 

Who says the government doesn't want farangs stay in this country? The visa rules are very simple in Thailand and have many options. Thailand has always been very nationalistic in the past and they will keep playing this tune whichever government is in power.

 

What the government currently does is sorting out the bad from the good apples (Good Guys in and Bad Guys out and this one they should have done long time ago).

 

The only problem I feel in Thailand is that employment opportunities are not that good as they were a few years ago.

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

And? 

 

What are you trying to prove? 

Im not a holiday maker, nor tourist. Im just not buying the BS people are spouting about how safe it is driving here. Ive had several cars here, drive everywhere, and will continue to drive, but it does not change anything. Still dangerous. And more dangerous than the majority of the USA. 

 

I lived (and consequently drove) in the US for thirteen years, Mid West, West Coast and Florida, I drove across country three times - I never once had an accident in who knows how many hundred of thousands of miles.

 

I then lived in the UK, Europe and later in China where I again drove, often in challenging conditions, I never once had an accident.

 

As stated, I've lived in Thailand for fifteen years and have had two accidents, both at very low speed where motor bikes ran into the rear of my truck, the second as recently as last week.

 

I believe driving in Thailand is safe for drivers who are fully prepared and fully equipped and up to the job, not everyone is, it can be taxing on the nerves but as long as you understand what the (mostly unwritten) rules are, it can be a pretty safe place to drive and it can be fun. Where it is NOT safe is when westerners drive here only from time to time and don't understand the rules, the timid and those living their motoring lives by the Highway Code will also be in trouble - there is no single rule that fits everyone but for me it's a safe place to drive, for you it may not be and that's no BS.

 

[Strange]

6 minutes ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

That's fine. 

 

I'm not gonna argue that the Thai roadside emergency services are on par with any in a developed country...that's a silly statement. If such is important to you, you should definitely consider moving to another country...and pay the high property and income taxes that support such lavish emergency services (which 99% of the population will never use).

 

I already said I'm moving back and again, its not just one thing its culmination of many things. Currently we are talking about driving. 

 

"Lavish" come on man. 

 

You and I both know that the benefits of income and property tax are FAR greater than "Lavish" emergency services so don't paint me up to be a nancy thats scared of the road and wants to run home. 

[OMGImInPattaya]

8 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

I lived (and consequently drove) in the US for thirteen years, Mid West, West Coast and Florida, I drove across country three times - I never once had an accident in who knows how many hundred of thousands of miles.

 

I then lived in the UK, Europe and later in China where I again drove, often in challenging conditions, I never once had an accident.

 

As stated, I've lived in Thailand for fifteen years and have had two accidents, both at very low speed where motor bikes ran into the rear of my truck, the second as recently as last week.

 

I believe driving in Thailand is safe for drivers who are fully prepared and fully equipped and up to the job, not everyone is, it can be taxing on the nerves but as long as you understand what the (mostly unwritten) rules are, it can be a pretty safe place to drive and it can be fun. Where it is NOT safe is when westerners drive here only from time to time and don't understand the rules, the timid and those living their motoring lives by the Highway Code will also be in trouble - there is no single rule that fits everyone but for me it's a safe place to drive, for you it may not be and that's no BS.

 

Very well said...some people it seems come here and stick like glue to the UK driving manual and wonder why they get in a head-on collision...beggars belief. Of course, I get slammed every time I say that there is a very specific form of unwritten rules of the road here in Thailand if you know and follow them, like you say, it can be a safe, and even fun, place to drive.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory insulting post has been removed. 

[balo]

I agree it's safe to drive cars here, you can't avoid others mistakes on the roads , plenty of them , but most of the time the local drivers are doing ok, just go with the flow. 5 years driving a car and still no accidents, never ride a bike here so can't comment on that.

[Strange]

23 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

I lived (and consequently drove) in the US for thirteen years, Mid West, West Coast and Florida, I drove across country three times - I never once had an accident in who knows how many hundred of thousands of miles.

 

I then lived in the UK, Europe and later in China where I again drove, often in challenging conditions, I never once had an accident.

 

As stated, I've lived in Thailand for fifteen years and have had two accidents, both at very low speed where motor bikes ran into the rear of my truck, the second as recently as last week.

 

I believe driving in Thailand is safe for drivers who are fully prepared and fully equipped and up to the job, not everyone is, it can be taxing on the nerves but as long as you understand what the (mostly unwritten) rules are, it can be a pretty safe place to drive and it can be fun. Where it is NOT safe is when westerners drive here only from time to time and don't understand the rules, the timid and those living their motoring lives by the Highway Code will also be in trouble - there is no single rule that fits everyone but for me it's a safe place to drive, for you it may not be and that's no BS.

 

 

So you drove all over the earth for years, including the USA, never had an accident. And you have had 2 accidents in Thailand. Both of witch were not your fault being that you were rear-ended. I believe this 100%. 

 

So you have had, or been involved in more accidents in Thailand than anywhere else you have driven. Not your fault but did damage your vehicle. 

 

Then you go on to say that Thailand is safe for drivers who are prepared for the job, regardless of the fact that to say this means you have mastered the art of Thai driving yourself, and have still had 2 accidents that were not your fault. 

 

While I agree 100% that when driving here, you have to learn the "Thai Way" of unwritten rules (or lack thereof) but this only helps protect you from your own mistakes. You are still very exposed to other drivers witch is why you have been hit twice regardless of how "Thai" you drive. 

 

If you are trying to insinuate that I am a western driver and do not understand the rules or the "Thai Way" of driving and that this is why I have the opinion that driving in the US is safer than Thailand, thats just a reach if I ever heard one. Just like you, I have been all over. 

 

Yeah sure you can mitigate the dangers by adapting and I do it with the best of them, but its still MORE dangerous. 

 

Did the motorbike drivers pay for the damage to your truck? Or did your own insurance cover it? 

[Strange]

46 minutes ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

Very well said...some people it seems come here and stick like glue to the UK driving manual and wonder why they get in a head-on collision...beggars belief. Of course, I get slammed every time I say that there is a very specific form of unwritten rules of the road here in Thailand if you know and follow them, like you say, it can be a safe, and even fun, place to drive.

 

Don't know why you would be ridiculed for saying that. Its the truth. But that does not protect you from other drivers all the time. 

[chiang mai]

5 minutes ago, Strange said:

 

So you drove all over the earth for years, including the USA, never had an accident. And you have had 2 accidents in Thailand. Both of witch were not your fault being that you were rear-ended. I believe this 100%. 

 

So you have had, or been involved in more accidents in Thailand than anywhere else you have driven. Not your fault but did damage your vehicle. 

 

Then you go on to say that Thailand is safe for drivers who are prepared for the job, regardless of the fact that to say this means you have mastered the art of Thai driving yourself, and have still had 2 accidents that were not your fault. 

 

While I agree 100% that when driving here, you have to learn the "Thai Way" of unwritten rules (or lack thereof) but this only helps protect you from your own mistakes. You are still very exposed to other drivers witch is why you have been hit twice regardless of how "Thai" you drive. 

 

If you are trying to insinuate that I am a western driver and do not understand the rules or the "Thai Way" of driving and that this is why I have the opinion that driving in the US is safer than Thailand, thats just a reach if I ever heard one. Just like you, I have been all over. 

 

Yeah sure you can mitigate the dangers by adapting and I do it with the best of them, but its still MORE dangerous. 

 

Did the motorbike drivers pay for the damage to your truck? Or did your own insurance cover it? 

 

[Strange]

11 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

 

 

Glad it worked out. 

 

Goes to show though, doesn't matter how good of a driver you are or how thai you drive, can and does still happen. Could easily be worse for both involved as well.

[Jdiddy]

27 minutes ago, balo said:

5 years driving a car and still no accidents, never ride a bike here so can't comment on that.

 

Been riding bicycles and motorbikes for a few years now in the northern parts of Thailand with no issues, great fun

[oldlakey]

40 minutes ago, Jdiddy said:

 

Been riding bicycles and motorbikes for a few years now in the northern parts of Thailand with no issues, great fun

I hope that continues for you for many more years

Unfortunately in those same years there are many thousands whose riding days have come to a very painful end

What conclusion should I draw from that

[Strange]

3 hours ago, sas_cars said:

Strange, how's the thunderstorm and lightning situation in Tampa? I heard it's called the Lightning capital of North America. Is it really that bad?

 

How about the hurrican situation there as well?  I am also comptemplating to retire there later on in life, so wanna have a base in Tampa and agree to nearly all of your points you have been mentioning in this thread.

 

Never heard of the lightning capital thing honestly, just looked it up. Yeah we get a lot of lightning, but its great to look at. You get strong thunder storms with a lot of lightning strikes and wrong wind for a little bit then its sunny again and hot. We also have ALOT of heat lightning that you can see almost every night in the summertime and its fun to look at. The whole lightning thing has never had any affect on me except going out on a boat offshore. 

 

 

The hurricanes do happen and I have only been through 1 severe hurricane that we did not evacuate from and that was hurricane Opal in 1995. I lived in Santa Rosa Beach. It wasn't near Tampa, but it can happen. Things are better now than in 95. We went without power for 2 weeks and FEMA/National Guard brought in food/water by boat and helicopter until the major bridges re-opened. Radar & Prediction is way better than in 95. 

 

For the most part, unless you live RIGHT on the water or in a flood zone, most people don't evacuate unless its a stronger category 3. Most people keep enough food/water for about a week and will have a small generator in the garage for the fridge/freezer. For the most part anything from Tropical depression to Cat 2-3 people just get together and have a hurricane party. Likely won't have to work or school. 

 

IMHO the lightning and hurricanes are not something that would not put me off from living there whatsoever. 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2016 by Strange

[OMGImInPattaya]

1 hour ago, Strange said:

 

Don't know why you would be ridiculed for saying that. Its the truth. But that does not protect you from other drivers all the time. 

No it doesn't,  and unfortunately, as the rules are unwritten, there's no way to learn them other than by experience. I learned them by being a passenger from 3 years in Bangkok taxis, before driving a car in Thailand, and observing how they drove.

[cdnvic]

One trollish post and reply removed.

[Strange]

9 minutes ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

No it doesn't,  and unfortunately, as the rules are unwritten, there's no way to learn them other than by experience. I learned them by being a passenger from 3 years in Bangkok taxis, before driving a car in Thailand, and observing how they drove.

 

Agreed. I didn't learn from others though. I bought a car and started driving immediately when I got here. Frustrated me beyond all belief for a while but I got used to it. Just go with the flow and drive defensively. Don't matter how hard you look, there is STILL going to be the family of 4 with a baby that zings out from the left on a motorbike without looking causing a mini heart attack. 

[JingerBen]

Driving in Thailand is like participating in a Demolition Derby.

If you want to survive it you have to drive defensively and try to be aware of what's happening on all sides.

Impossible to do that all the time... just hope Lady Luck sticks with you.