Philippine president wants US forces out of restive south

[Publicus]

3 minutes ago, markusangel said:

Exactly. Some people here reacted as if they knew the whole history of the Philippines. Ask the Filipinos first themselves and majority of them WANT this. The Philippines seems NOT a nation by herself. American IS still strangling the Philippines. Favor given, yet somethings taken over.

The US is actually protecting the "seas" residing in the Philippines. They are afraid China will take over it. 

So, is that a Problem if Philippines will ally with China?

China had been a long-year-old alliance with the Philippines before US claimed the Philippines. 

Now, the President just warned the US, because the US IS still controling the Philippines. And the President just want to let the Philippines be for the Filipinos.  

 

 

A CCP Chinese broadcaster on the state Central China Television (CCTV) spilled the beans...

 

A Chinese TV Anchor Claims China Owns the Philippines

http://world.time.com/2012/05/10/a-chinese-tv-anchor-claims-china-owns-the-philippines-as-spat-heats-up-the-south-china-sea/

 

You won't find that anywhere in the United States. 

 

As we know, CCTV also means closed circuit television, which is exactly what all mass media are in the Dictatorship that  the CCP run in the PRC.

[tonbridgebrit]

6 minutes ago, markusangel said:

Exactly. Some people here reacted as if they knew the whole history of the Philippines. Ask the Filipinos first themselves and majority of them WANT this. The Philippines seems NOT a nation by herself. American IS still strangling the Philippines. Favor given, yet somethings taken over.

The US is actually protecting the "seas" residing in the Philippines. They are afraid China will take over it. 

So, is that a Problem if Philippines will ally with China?

China had been a long-year-old alliance with the Philippines before US claimed the Philippines. 

Now, the President just warned the US, because the US IS still controling the Philippines. And the President just want to let the Philippines be for the Filipinos.  

 

Well, yes.  The people in the Philippines, they are tired of being a Washington colony, and this is why lots of people in the Philippines support Duterte.

"So, is that a Problem if Philippines will ally with China?".   Well, I say, let the Philippines choose. Is it a problem ? Well, it is a problem for Washington. Washington will simply not allow it. That's why Washington might go ahead and remove Duterte.

 

[Publicus]

5 minutes ago, IAMHERE said:

Americans died to free the PI from Spain, died some more to free the PI from Japan. I agree, about time Americans stop dying for the PI. Let China have them, just not the entire South China Sea.

 

It seems those the USA intends to help save their portion of the South China Sea see this as a win win opportunity. Let some one else do the fighting and make money from the struggle at the same time. If things Walmart and Amazon sell me didn't have to traverse the South China Sea to get to America I'd say let China have it.

 

I'd say let China have it.

 

A lot of us would like to 'let China have it'.   

[Publicus]

4 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Well, yes.  The people in the Philippines, they are tired of being a Washington colony, and this is why lots of people in the Philippines support Duterte.

"So, is that a Problem if Philippines will ally with China?".   Well, I say, let the Philippines choose. Is it a problem ? Well, it is a problem for Washington. Washington will simply not allow it. That's why Washington might go ahead and remove Duterte.

 

 

As I'd noted, Duterte is looking to Japan to counterbalance CCP Dictators in Beijing, and he's doing it very quietly.

 

Washington is of course closely connected to Japan in its struggles against CCP aggressions in the East Sea in particular, but in the SCS as well. All of the energy supplies of Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Asean and Australia flow through the South China Sea via the sea lanes that are international waters under the UNCLOS.

 

Washington is Duterte's fallback position. The usual suspect anti-USA crowd is missing this completely  -- Duterte, Japan, USA, Asean, Australia, India. Excepting Cambodia and Laos, none of 'em are friends or supporters of CCP in the SCS.

 

Filipinos strongly support Duterte on drugs and domestic policy. Stand by however for the polling on Duterte's international relationships, especially those in the region. Again, if Duterte loses the Scarborough Shoal to CCP Dictators in Beijing, he's going to face impeachment in the Philippine Congress with the support of the Supreme Court justices. This is not a secret in the Phils.

 

Duterte thinks he can tread water on these issues so he's going to be surprised if one day he suddenly washes up on a shore someplace.

[simple1]

16 hours ago, sgtsabai said:

BTW, doesn't the Donald of the Philippines come from a muslim family?

 

Duterte has a Catholic upbringing, although he claims to now reject the authority of the Catholic Church. It would be interesting to know the true driver behind his comments as he has recently claimed he wishes to grant some form of autonomy to the Mindanao Muslim community  After 40 years of conflict and an estimated 150k deaths don't know if US Foreign Policy will support his initiative.

[markusangel]

He had some drops of blood from A Muslim tribe.


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[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Well, yes.  The people in the Philippines, they are tired of being a Washington colony, and this is why lots of people in the Philippines support Duterte.

"So, is that a Problem if Philippines will ally with China?".   Well, I say, let the Philippines choose. Is it a problem ? Well, it is a problem for Washington. Washington will simply not allow it. That's why Washington might go ahead and remove Duterte.

Washington colony?  Really?

 

So it's better to be a Chinese colony?  Those references get boring.

[markusangel]

FYI, this is Duterte's psy-war to all the great nations' leaders. Actually he is just letting China try to defend the Philippines but actually he is baiting China. USA will really defend her fortress in the east. Russia also offered some hints of help as well as India etc. And if all these are all setup, DUTERTE will cry that the big bad wolf is growling and is now on the way to devour the Philippines. So all of the subtle allies of Duterte standup and catch the big, bad wolf.
Duterte is NOT that idiot as what many people thought he is. He just made people think like idiots.


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[craigt3365]

http://www.smh.com.au/world/rodrigo-duterte-pledges-to-jet-ski-to-a-disputed-south-china-sea-island-20160503-goknao.html
 

Quote

 

He also said he would ride a jet ski to a disputed island occupied by China and personally stake the Philippines' claims.

..............

Duterte has said he will tout the Philippines' alliance with Western powers such as the United States to get China to accept the Philippine position, which he will stress by personally staking the Philippines' claims.

 

I'd like to see that jet ski ride! LOL

[craigt3365]

Seems things are changing...again...

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/14/world/asia/philippines-us-duterte-troops-mindanao.html

Quote

Brig. Gen. Restituto Padilla, a spokesman for the Philippine armed forces, said the remarks the president, Rodrigo Duterte, delivered on Monday at a swearing-in ceremony for officials in Manila were an expression of “his concern to the U.S. servicemen in Mindanao.”

[Scott]

Troll post removed.  

[Scott]

6 hours ago, simple1 said:

 

Duterte has a Catholic upbringing, although he claims to now reject the authority of the Catholic Church. It would be interesting to know the true driver behind his comments as he has recently claimed he wishes to grant some form of autonomy to the Mindanao Muslim community  After 40 years of conflict and an estimated 150k deaths don't know if US Foreign Policy will support his initiative.

 

If Duterte decides to give autonomy to the Mindanao Muslim community, I don't think he is going to find much objection from the US.   That is an internal affair.

 

The situation that might cause some concern is that autonomy starts showing an increase in activities related to terrorism that start affecting other countries.  

 

Other than being strategically positioned in the South China sea, the US has little need for the Philippines.   They do not produce or export a lot of things that are vital to the US.   If they pivot toward China and resolve their territorial issues with China, then well and good.   If they wish for the US to leave the country, there will be no significant loss for the US.

 

[Publicus]

 

Duterte's home southern island province of Mindanao, with its Moro Muslim population in the Catholic Philippines dating back to the 16th century and Spain, is sort of like grafting New Zealand onto Indonesia. It is not a fit.

 

Having US military troops in Mindanao after the US had colonised the area further aggravates the mismatch of Mindanao and Manila which is who put the troops there. Don't see why any foreign government would be interested in interposing if Manila chose to make Mindanao an autonomous region of the Phils. Or even agreeing to independence (which itself is unlikely).

 

Duterte had been talking up CCP in Beijing doing development projects in the Phils, to include Mindanao, in return for negotiations over the SCS and Scarborough Shoal. However, Duterte was talking this up while taking out his pen to award rail construction in Manila to Japan. Duterte is now talking with the Japanese about rail and infrastructure projects in Mindanao.

 

Duterte doesn't like or trust the Chinese. The only country he has singled out in the drug mess in the Phils is China. Duterte is receiving coastal patrol boats donated by Japan, four reconnaissance aircraft from Japan and is now receiving full fledged coast guard cutters from Japan (and the USA from its reserve fleet).

 

Asean knows Duterte is holding the line that for any SCS negotiations between the Phils and CCP Boyz, CCP has to accept the PCA ruling in The Hague as the basis of all discussions or agreements. CCP absolutely will not recognise the UNCLOS in the SCS. Beijing is consequently shut out from buying its way in or talking its way into SCS, Scarborough Shoal in particular. Beijing is facing the unhappy choice of giving it up or moving in by using force.

 

It's the old lesson everyone well knows to watch what Duterte does, not so much what he says. What Duterte says often obscures completely what he in fact does. Asean has in a reasonable confidence left their case with Duterte to check the CCP at Scarborough.

[markusangel]

President Duterte believed he can HELP RESTORE the Philippines claim its glory again by-thru-with the Filipinos.


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[Jingthing]

President Duterte believed he can HELP RESTORE the Philippines claim its glory again by-thru-with the Filipinos.


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Make the Philippines great again eh?

[markusangel]

She will!


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[Publicus]

 

Again?

[LawrenceChee]

He is elected in a democratic way and won fair and square

Now that he is deviating towards other countries other than USA , all of a sudden Washington has an issue.

Isn't that democracy ? If he is an idiot and does not deliver in 6 years , the people will vote for another with another platform that may sound better than "tough guy image shooting druggies"

For now, the Filipinos picked that as the most important for the next 6 years

He's right in a way ...there is going to be no wars except internal and rightfully so he does not need any fancy gear from USA unless it's free and the factories are donating that

His country needs more infrastructure than patrol boats etc

And much to some posters chagrin , he's showing the world he wants to trade with China , they won , the noise of the media have floated to another story and now the time to be practical and sew up business deals


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[craigt3365]

10 minutes ago, LawrenceChee said:

He is elected in a democratic way and won fair and square

Now that he is deviating towards other countries other than USA , all of a sudden Washington has an issue.

Isn't that democracy ? If he is an idiot and does not deliver in 6 years , the people will vote for another with another platform that may sound better than "tough guy image shooting druggies"

For now, the Filipinos picked that as the most important for the next 6 years

He's right in a way ...there is going to be no wars except internal and rightfully so he does not need any fancy gear from USA unless it's free and the factories are donating that

His country needs more infrastructure than patrol boats etc

And much to some posters chagrin , he's showing the world he wants to trade with China , they won , the noise of the media have floated to another story and now the time to be practical and sew up business deals


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Not sure deviating is the right answer.  China has been a big PI trading partner for years, and will continue to be an important partner.  Though Japan is larger with regards to exports.  As is the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Philippines

[LawrenceChee]

Not sure deviating is the right answer.  China has been a big PI trading partner for years, and will continue to be an important partner.  Though Japan is larger with regards to exports.  As is the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Philippines

He seems to want his own tangent and way of doing things ...at the moment he is the president and should pick the course he thinks is best for his country

He doesn't come across as someone who may listen to his Advisors but since we don't work in his office daily , we can only Guess ...

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[55Jay]

If his past and present represents how Duterte deals with problems, I wouldn't expect any deal with the boys down south to last very long.   First time there's a disagreement or an increasingly paranoid Duterte thinks they are getting too big for their britches, expect a hail of bullets.   Answered with car bombs in Manila.   And then a surge of macho troops into the South to put them back in their place.  And then..... 

 

 

[tonbridgebrit]

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/latest-chinas-xi-hails-milestone-visit-duterte-050448339.html

Okay, this is the latest news from Duterte and the Philippines.
The Filipino leader was in China and, quote from the yahoo (AP) article [The Philippine leader said Thursday: "Your honors, in this venue I announce my separation from the United States... both in military and economics also." His remarks were met with applause.]

Yes, off-course his comment was met with applause.  From the Chinese audience. Now, what exactly did he mean ?




 

[JemJem]

Pathetic piece of rubbish !

Just because he was elected, it doesn't make him a decent person.

The world would be a better place without the likes of Duterte, Erdogan and Kim Jong Un. Just three names that immediately come to my mind.

[impulse]

Looks like another Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere is forming.

 

Different players, but the same game.  The last one worked out so well...

 

 

[JAG]

"I announce my separation from the United States".

 

That should rock the US to its core.

A blow from which it may never recover.

 

I wonder how the Phillipino people feel, I always rather imagined they were rather keen on the USA, and rather less keen on China.

[LomSak27]

27 minutes ago, JAG said:

That should rock the US to its core.

A blow from which it may never recover.

 

 

I'm  feeling the angst  ...  debates over, We have Football and both my Pro and College Teams are rolling!

YES!!

 

Ok  ... maybe not but I am sure next week I will ................................

 

 

 

[derator01]

Please stick to the topic.  This isn't about the US debt.

[RuamRudy]

3 hours ago, JAG said:

I wonder how the Phillipino people feel, I always rather imagined they were rather keen on the USA, and rather less keen on China.

 

The Filipinos I know fall into two camps. Those with a more global viewpoint are aghast, whereas those who tend to focus on more parochial matters are still broadly supportive of Duterte, but I sense some nervousness creeping in with them as he goes off on ever wilder tangents.

[Publicus]

On Wednesday, September 14, 2016 at 9:33 AM, simple1 said:

 

Duterte has a Catholic upbringing, although he claims to now reject the authority of the Catholic Church. It would be interesting to know the true driver behind his comments as he has recently claimed he wishes to grant some form of autonomy to the Mindanao Muslim community  After 40 years of conflict and an estimated 150k deaths don't know if US Foreign Policy will support his initiative.

 

U.S. continues in its consistent policy to support the Manila elites across the board: the political elites, the Manila elites of the economy and financial sector; the Phils armed forces and commanders that appoint from among themselves. None of 'em like the various insurgencies occurring long term in Mindanao and in the Phils' South broadly. 

 

Duterte won the presidency with 38% of the national vote due to the Phils constitutional requirement that there be no runoff, that the candidate with the plurality wins. Duterte won by a large plurality boosted strongly by the hugely lopsided vote in Mindanao. However, four others got the other 62% of the vote, all of 'em from the main island of Luzon.

 

Duterte has spent a couple of score of years involved in Mindanao insurgencies. Duterte has intimate and personal lines into the separatist Muslim insurgency, the separatist and atheist Maoist New People's Army insurgency (unconnected to Beijing), and anything that's armed and opposes Manila and its unitarianism.  

 

Duterte is writing his own ticket so far by being tough on the huge fear of Filipinos everywhere on the islands about drugs and crime. They're happy with what he's doing, madman that he is about it.

 

However, Duterte was rebuffed by the CCP Dictators in Beijing when, after taking office, he asked 'em in a gesture of goodwill to allow Phils fishermen back into the Spratlys waters off Mindanao and the South broadly. Duterte got stiffed again by CCP in his same goodwill request concerning Scarborough Shoal off Luzon, between the Phils and Taiwan. 

 

CCP meanwhile has quietly assented to very quietly and without any mention by anyone to essentially honor the July ruling of the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague in respect of the UNILOS  and the South China Sea. Xi Jinping demonstrated the reality of CCP's new attitude and position when he assured Pres. Obama and the rest of the G-20 meeting in Beijing in September, by not advancing against Scarborough Shoal. 

 

President Obama had been saying in face to face meetings with Xi throughout 2015 and 2016 that the U.S. would "take action" and would "isolate Beijing" if they moved against Scarborough. CCP got it and Scarborough remains quiet; CCP is, further, super quietly assuring everyone in the region to include Washington that it will observe the essential thrust of the PCA rulings. CCP have realised they just can't do otherwise and have any trust or credibility to any extent in anything else, whether military, diplomatic, economics or financial. 

 

Proof of it all is that since the G-20 meeting in China in September, government after government of Asean have published high profile statements that they're confident each of 'em and all of 'em can work things out between themselves, Beijing, Washington.

 

Duterte is prepping for upcoming trips to Beijing, then after a month or so to Tokyo, and in between to include Moscow. It would be in Duterte's self-interest to find his place in the regional and global scheme of things and to forget about being best buddy to the several insurgencies in Mindanao and elsewhere throughout the South that are focused against Manila. Either that or to not stray too far from the palace in Manila where he continues to be an outsider, stranger, unpredictable.

 

Son of Marcos (literally) is in the wings as a popular vote getter of his own in the Phils. The independently elected vp is a close ally of the strongly pro-US former president Aquino. The dominant justice of the Supreme Court is the eternal opponent of Duterte. Phils armed forces commanders say Duterte hasn't signed anything to remove his nemesis US troops from Mindanao, that it's all words to date. 

[Publicus]

On 9/18/2016 at 2:43 PM, LawrenceChee said:

He seems to want his own tangent and way of doing things ...at the moment he is the president and should pick the course he thinks is best for his country

He doesn't come across as someone who may listen to his Advisors but since we don't work in his office daily , we can only Guess ...

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Duterte will find out very soon he's put his fate in the hands of CCP in Beijing and that Washington will not lift a finger to save him from that.

 

First and foremost is Scarborough Shoal off Luzon and squarely in the Philippines EEZ. CCP Dictators have blockaded Phils fishermen from Scarborough since 2012. In July CCP said a flat out no to Duterte's request of a goodwill gesture to him personally by lifting the blockade. (Same in the Spratlys off Duterte's home province Mindanao in the south.) This one now looks like strike three. 

 

The whole deal with everyone gravitates around Scarborough Shoal. 

 

President Obama has told Xi Jinping face to face for two years Scarborough is off limits in the SCS. CCP grabbing the Shoal would wrap a bow around its possession and control of all the Sea. Obama has said to Xi repeatedly the US would "take action" and "isolate China" if they made the final and otherwise decisive move at Scarborough. 

 

The Phils elites of Manila and Luzon have made clear, that if CCP starts construction at Scarborough Duterte will be impeached and removed from the presidency. No doubt of this and Duterte knows it. It's in the Phils constitution, that's how certain it is.

 

Duterte is by choice a Moro from the Phils South and he's always been in with the Muslim insurgency there. His statement that he wants his nemesis there, U.S. military advisors out and gone has informed the Manila and Luzon elites that Duterte is what they'd always believed him to be, which is the new Marcos but allied with China (and Russia).

 

The Phils military commanders who are graduates of US military academies, US army and naval war colleges, USA universities and most of whom are fluent in English, have been patient with and passive toward Duterte, who has been consistently solicitous of them. Duterte's war on drugs and crime have mortified the Supreme Court.

 

Duterte is a commotion at the national level and a menace regionally and globally. He's like a tornado when it touches down, in that you know its devastation coming at you but it jumps and hops vertically and horizontally, so all you can do is to protect yourself then to have a great relief once it's gone and dissipated. 

Edited October 21, 2016 by Publicus
Typos.