Brexit and Fixing the NHS

[SgtRock]

Prompted by a post on another thread, I decided to start a thread on the NHS.

 

I believe that the NHS, in its original guise of providing free Primary Care for all was, and still is, a great concept. The issue with the NHS is that it has morphed into a great bohemoth that is now unfit for purpose. This has been caused by various factors and I will throw just a few into the mix.

 

1. Political Tool / Football

2. Pressure / Lobby Groups.

3. A divergence from its original role of providing Primary Care.

 

It is obvious that the the NHS needs to change drastically to have any real chance of survival. The alternative is some form of Medical / Private Insurance. Although I have my own Private Medical Insurance, this is not something that I would like to see foisted on the UK population. 

 

I believe that these treatments do not fall under Primary care and should be paid for. This is nowhere near an extensive list and are just a few that I know of the top of my head.

 

1. Medical Tourism - £ 500 Million

2. Abortion                - £ 120 Million

3. IVF                          - £ 500 Million.

 

Now, I am not saying that these treatments should not be available. I am saying that they are not Primary Care and should be paid for.

 

These 3 alone would save over £ 1 Billion a year and would fund most of the NHS Staff training at the very least. Training British People to work within the NHS. Setting it off on the road towards self sufficiency.

 

I would be grateful if others chip in and provide others that they believe should not be free and what it costs the NHS annually.

 

Or just chip in with your thoughts and keep it civil 

[dick dasterdly]

I agree that the NHS is a great idea - but it has been corrupted on too many levels.

 

As soon as they started employing multitudes of clerical staff (with of course the multitudes of management), it became clear that it was no longer something to benefit sick people - it had turned into an empire building exercise.

 

I saw something similar happening in schools, where previously only a few admin staff were needed - council bureaucracy resulted in admin staff bieing quadrupled during the decade I was there.

 

Back to the NHS - I'm sure they're great in an emergency - but god help you if you're old and end up in a geriatric ward .  The nurses don't care and consider the patients (and of course, anyone who mentions that a patient needs attention) a nuisance - taking them away from chatting to each other.

 

The NHS needs a complete overhaul - but it will never happen as that would cull 'jobs for the boys' and empire building.  Plus, of course, the government would have to spend far more money on training good doctors and nurses.

 

One final thought - a friend of mine (a long time ago) had a son that was training to be a nurse.  One evening he was vocal in his view that all those over 50 should no longer be entitled to NHS care......  I've no doubt he's a nurse nowadays, so good luck to older people in his care .

Edited September 16, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[lungbing]

Here's four more things that should be paid for and not provided free by the NHS

1. Breast enlargement/reduction

2. Designer vaginas

3. Tattoo removal

4. gastric bands for weight reduction

[Strange]

12 minutes ago, lungbing said:

Here's four more things that should be paid for and not provided free by the NHS

1. Breast enlargement/reduction

2. Designer vaginas

3. Tattoo removal

4. gastric bands for weight reduction

 

American here - your tax dollars pay for designer vaginas? What the... 

[jadee]

To the best of my knowledge, the cost to the NHS of so-called 'medical tourism' comes from people not paying for their care. It's not that the NHS ignores it or lets them off, it's that they present the patients with the bill and it goes unpaid. I saw this in a documentary once. Unless the hospitals were allowed to call the police and have the patients detained until payment was made, I don't see this changing. Such a practice probably contravenes peoples' human rights. 

The purpose of the NHS has constantly evolved over the decades, there has always been huge public support across all sections of society. I don't sense that there is much support for cutting services. The problem is obvious: the NHS has to care for people as it always has but people are living longer and suffering from more complex conditions. Drugs costing £30,000 or less are approved by Nice if they give patients an extra year of life. For cancer we're talking a £60,000 limit. Yet the patients recieving them have never paid anything like that much into the system via taxation or NI contributions. The average wage in England is less than £30,000. 
While I agree with the OP's list of possible savings, British governments have always found ways to increase NHS funding when value for money was assured. For example, between 1957 and 1961, Nation Insurance contributions were raised three times as explicit health tax increases. Through the 1980s and 90s NHS spending was constrained but then the 2002 Budget brought in more NI increases to match European average health expenditure. The goal was to increase NHS spending by over 40% by 2008. Given that huge increase, it's astonishing that the NHS should still be 'in crisis', but it certainly has been and still it. The problem is that no one wants to pay for what they get. People even have their travel expenses reimbursed as shown on Michael Moore's 'Sicko' documentary. 

[SgtRock]

13 hours ago, lungbing said:

1. Breast enlargement/reduction

2. Designer vaginas

3. Tattoo removal

4. gastric bands for weight reduction

 

 

Cosmetic surgery IMO and not Primary Care. 

 

Breast Reduction     - £ 20 Million

Breast Enargement - £ 52 Million

Ear Pinning                - £ 6 Million

Tummy Tucks           - £ 6 Million

Liposuction               - £10 Million

Nose Jobs                 - £ 34 Million

Eyelid Surgery           - £ 20 Million

Face Lifts                  - £ 9 Million

Gastric Band            - Up to £ 12 Billion 

 

Over 2 posts in the space of less than 24 hours we have identified an annual saving of close to £ 15 Billion a year on non Primary care treatment.

 

And this is only just scratching the surface. There must be untold £ Billions to be made in non Primary care costs.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2016 by SgtRock

[alant]

It is all very well to talk of the NHS needing a change when ill informed change / change for the sake of change was the likely cause. Once Thatcher brought in private competition with the missguided believe it would reduce costs problems started to arise. Not only that it lead to a whole revenue stream that used to be paid to the government being pirated away into the coffers of private companies with the onset of managed services contracts.

Since then there has been change after change, without analysis of the costs of the current service and the knock on effect of the future service.

The knock on effects are now at slash and burn status, service is being cut and no longer has the type of value is once had.

Yes there are lots of unnecessary costs and you could argue procedures on the NHS as well as the politically correctness of multi language signs and interpretation services but I believe it is the fundamental problem of change for the sake of change by those without knowledge but with power that must be realised first.

[hansnl]

13 hours ago, Strange said:

 

American here - your tax dollars pay for designer vaginas? What the... 

Pounds Sterling..........

[SgtRock]

6 minutes ago, alant said:

Since then there has been change after change, without analysis of the costs of the current service and the knock on effect of the future service.

 

 

A forensic analysis of the current NHS  costs / current service / future knock on effect is a waste of time and money.

 

The NHS in its current form is unsustainable and will lead to an extinct NHS and Private Medical / Healthcare Insurance.

 

The objective of the thread was to try and highlight where savings could be made by slashing non Primary Care costs.

 

You never know, might just get lucky and save the UK population from Private Healthcare costs.

[Keesters]

Designer Vaginas paid for by the NHS! You gotta be kidding me. If it is true, and I'd like to see some evidence, then the NHS has really gone wrong.

 

P.S. And what has Brexit got to do with it? In the title but not in any post.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Keesters
added p.s.

[SgtRock]

17 minutes ago, Keesters said:

P.S. And what has Brexit got to do with it? In the title but not in any post.

 

Brexit gives the UK the opportunity to chart a new course, a new direction and a blank canvas to adopt a system that is not leading it further into a never ending spiral of debt.

 

That new course starts with getting the basics right at home.

 

21 minutes ago, Keesters said:

Designer Vaginas paid for by the NHS! You gotta be kidding me. If it is true, and I'd like to see some evidence, then the NHS has really gone wrong.

 

 

Designer vagina NHS operations unwarranted

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-14627659

 

Not really that difficult to find

[gamini]

My mother at 80 years old, was very rudely told by an NHS Dr not to come too often since he had too many elderly patients. This was my mother's first visit. She was in tears and my brother and I decided to get her private healthcare which which really cost us a lot of money considering her age.
My cousin who is a doctor opted out of the  NHS and became a private one. He told me about all the corruption and bureaucracy was just too much for him. The pharmaceutical companies offer huge bribes and free medicine to doctors in order for them to push their overpriced medicine. Unfortunately quite a few doctors accept them.
The whole NHS needs reorganizing. It needs far more doctors and nurses and far less office staff and bureaucrats

[dick dasterdly]

23 minutes ago, gamini said:

My mother at 80 years old, was very rudely told by an NHS Dr not to come too often since he had too many elderly patients. This was my mother's first visit. She was in tears and my brother and I decided to get her private healthcare which which really cost us a lot of money considering her age.
My cousin who is a doctor opted out of the  NHS and became a private one. He told me about all the corruption and bureaucracy was just too much for him. The pharmaceutical companies offer huge bribes and free medicine to doctors in order for them to push their overpriced medicine. Unfortunately quite a few doctors accept them.
The whole NHS needs reorganizing. It needs far more doctors and nurses and far less office staff and bureaucrats

Not convinced that a doctor's decision to leave the NHS for a private practice had much to do with the corruption and bureaucracy - it seems more likely that money was a major motivating factor.  But perhaps I'm being too cynical.

 

Apart from that, I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post.

[emilymat]

Sgt Rock, I read your posts quite often and find them very useful. This thread is a good idea.

 

However, in continuing the discussion lets distinguish between 'primary' and 'secondary' healthcare. I say this because when the NHS is discussed there is obviously a tendency to think about hospitals - which is mainly 'secondary' healthcare.

 

But, although I do not have the figures, 'primary' healthcare (which includes the GP service, community care etc etc) accounts for the major chunk of NHS funding. I saw a survey some time ago that indicated that around 70-80% of the population only ever use 'primary' care and never a hospital.

 

But of course, the pressure on GP's services has resulted in A and E departments being used by some people as primary healthcare places, simply because they cannot get a GP appointment, panic over small things, or are downright lazy.

 

The financial pressures on the NHS are enormous. To add to the previous posts, one of the biggest problems is the legacy of PFI, used by both Tory and Labour governments. This is crudely how it worked:

 

1. X community needs  a new hospital.

2. We don't want to commit 50 million quid on capital expenditure (That's the government)

3. So, we get a building contractor to build the hospital and we agree to 'rent' it for, say 30 years at 3 million pounds a year.

4. Not only do they build it but can employ there own non-medical staff to run it. We will undertake to foot the bill.

5. The locals are delighted (Nice new hospital). The DOH is delighted (No capital outlay)

6. But, the financial millstone around the trust paying back the 'rent' is still going on and will be for many years.

 

So essentially, many of today's finacial problems are a result of that policy introduced 80/90's

 

I don't know what the answer is, but I wish some polititan would have the guts to increase and ringfence,some form of taxation specifically targeted at the NHS. Most of the public would buy into that.

 

The drug and supply companies also need to be monitored carefully for excess charges. (I'm sure they are somewhere, or at least I hope they are). Although inflation in the UK has been running at maybe 2-3% over recent years, I understand inflation the in the NHS in the area of supplies etc runs at around 5% minimum.

 

I have no clever answers, although the problems in primary care, as you point out, are  also resulting in a massive 'bed blocking' problem where elderly patientscannot be discharged into the community.

[Baerboxer]

There are as you say, many areas that should arguable not be paid for by the NHS but charged to those desiring them.

 

One big issue is the management - number, hierarchy and performance. Not only are they very well remunerated but poor performance is often not dealt with as it would in other organizations.

Recent case of a CEO being forced to resign for failing to ensure patient safety and failing to investigate patient deaths whilst in care. She resigned her position and then was immediately re-employed by the same Health Authority, on the same salary and benefits, in a job that was created specially, never existed before, wasn't advertised, and no one else was interviewed. The HA Chair simply brushed criticism off saying she was "uniquely qualified for the role".

 

This nepotism, cronyism, jobs for the boys and girls, and thoroughly inept management that doesn't perform in an incredibly mechanistic hierarchical organization with fairy tale KPI's is one of the biggest issues within the NHS among non clinical staff.

[SgtRock]

emilymat.

 

A great post, thank you  I only want to respond to one part now.

 

1 hour ago, emilymat said:

However, in continuing the discussion lets distinguish between 'primary' and 'secondary' healthcare. I say this because when the NHS is discussed there is obviously a tendency to think about hospitals - which is mainly 'secondary' healthcare.

 

 

I want to initially  answer this because it is a part that produces a lot of fudge when the NHS is discussed.

 

As per my OP when the NHS was originally set up to provide free primary healthcare. The Primary healthcare was based on a medical definition of primary healthcare. Not on whether a GP or a Hospital was primary or secondary healthcare.

 

Primary healthcare being based on, in simple terms.

 

To maintain Breathing

To arrest Bleeding

The treatment of Breaks and Burns

The treatment of infections and diseases.

 

Primary healthcare would also include the infrastructure for the diagnosis and treatment of the above.

 

A basic, free point of use healthcare service for all that is paid for through general taxation.

 

You have made many other points that I will return and return.

Edited September 17, 2016 by SgtRock

[SgtRock]

36 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

One big issue is the management - number, hierarchy and performance. Not only are they very well remunerated but poor performance is often not dealt with as it would in other organizations.

 

 

NHS Management is a source of many of the NHS's problems.

 

Sadly, it is not NHS specific and the same can be said for most bodies that are Government funded.

Edited September 17, 2016 by SgtRock

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I agree that the NHS is a great idea - but it has been corrupted on too many levels.

 

As soon as they started employing multitudes of clerical staff (with of course the multitudes of management), it became clear that it was no longer something to benefit sick people - it had turned into an empire building exercise.

 

I saw something similar happening in schools, where previously only a few admin staff were needed - council bureaucracy resulted in admin staff bieing quadrupled during the decade I was there.

 

Back to the NHS - I'm sure they're great in an emergency - but god help you if you're old and end up in a geriatric ward .  The nurses don't care and consider the patients (and of course, anyone who mentions that a patient needs attention) a nuisance - taking them away from chatting to each other.

 

The NHS needs a complete overhaul - but it will never happen as that would cull 'jobs for the boys' and empire building.  Plus, of course, the government would have to spend far more money on training good doctors and nurses.

 

One final thought - a friend of mine (a long time ago) had a son that was training to be a nurse.  One evening he was vocal in his view that all those over 50 should no longer be entitled to NHS care......  I've no doubt he's a nurse nowadays, so good luck to older people in his care .

The nurses don't care and consider the patients (and of course, anyone who mentions that a patient needs attention) a nuisance - taking them away from chatting to each other.

You can blame the nursing heirachy and the politicians for that. In what must be the most stupid move ever, they made nursing a degree qualification, which instantly stopped the most dedicated bum wipers from becoming nurses, and giving it to silly people that have no idea as to what real nursing is about.

Nursing should go back to what it is- a TRADE, and have hospital training again as an apprenticeship. I trained in hospital, just before it was phased out, and the quality and dedication of those qualified under the new regime was dire.

While I accept that nurse practitioners ( or as I like to call them, wannabe doctors ) need a degree, ward nurses do not. All that has happened is that we now have nurses of the type you mention, and the dedicated ones are retiring. God help us, as the nurses won't.

 

One evening he was vocal in his view that all those over 50 should no longer be entitled to NHS care......  I've no doubt he's a nurse nowadays, so good luck to older people in his care 

It takes a special sort of person to be a geriatric nurse, and I certainly wasn't one. I would assume he is doing something more suited to his character, just as I did.

While I would think 50 is a bit young, I can see the day when over 70s have any life saving treatment denied. That echelon of the population uses far more medical resources than probably the rest of the population combined, and it is unsustainable in the long run as the aged population increases. I hope they also bring in voluntary euthanasia, rather than just sending people to hospices to suffer much.

Absolutely IVF should no longer be free.

 

PS I had major surgery in a large NHS hospital, and my experience was appalling. There was only ONE decent nurse, and she was hospital trained, The rest of the "newspeak" uni mob were attrocious, and the ward was filthy.

 

[rockingrobin]

43 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

emilymat.

 

A great post, thank you  I only want to respond to one part now.

 

 

I want to initially  answer this because it is a part that produces a lot of fudge when the NHS is discussed.

 

As per my OP when the NHS was originally set up to provide free primary healthcare. The Primary healthcare was based on a medical definition of primary healthcare. Not on whether a GP or a Hospital was primary or secondary healthcare.

 

Primary healthcare being based on, in simple terms.

 

To maintain Breathing

To arrest Bleeding

The treatment of Breaks and Burns

The treatment of infections and diseases.

 

Primary healthcare would also include the infrastructure for the diagnosis and treatment of the above.

 

A basic, free point of use healthcare service for all that is paid for through general taxation.

 

You have made many other points that I will return and return.

I would have to disagree , the nhs was set up to provide free healthcare, 

I think this link provides an historical look 

http://www.nhshistory.net/shorthistory.htm

[thaibeachlovers]

50 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

NHS Management is a source of many of the NHS's problems.

 

Sadly, it is not NHS specific and the same can be said for most bodies that are Government funded.

My theatre manager ( I finished my nursing career as a theatre nurse ) in a well known London hospital was a little dictator that allowed no aspect of the theatre to escape her dictat. I never experienced such a high turnover of staff ever before, as she drove many dedicated and experienced staff to seek work elsewhere. Yet nothing was ever done by the hospital management to reform her. After 10 years, I had to seek early retirement just to escape her.

Edited September 17, 2016 by thaibeachlovers

[kingdratsab]

18 hours ago, lungbing said:

Here's four more things that should be paid for and not provided free by the NHS

1. Breast enlargement/reduction

2. Designer vaginas

3. Tattoo removal

4. gastric bands for weight reduction

Hey! How can I get a number 2.....I could play all day....be an expert in no time...World and Olympic champ! Yeeeess

[SgtRock]

3 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

I would have to disagree , the nhs was set up to provide free healthcare, 

I think this link provides an historical look 

http://www.nhshistory.net/shorthistory.htm

 

You have excelled yourself.

 

Well done.

 

I am speechless.

[dick dasterdly]

37 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

NHS Management is a source of many of the NHS's problems.

 

Sadly, it is not NHS specific and the same can be said for most bodies that are Government funded.

Plus, of course, the Private Finance Initiatives.....

 

They cost a fortune (but of course are very profitable for the companies concerned) and I cannot think that they would be allowed for any other reason than 'kick backs' (in one form or another).

 

I have SO many examples of 'recommended contractors' from working in a school.....

 

One of my favourites was when the Headteacher was telling me about a new science lab that was to be built under one of the multitude of government/local council schemes.  When he told me the cost (to the council/government, fortunately not the school), I pointed out that it was going to cost the same as a luxury four bedroom home!

 

He was taken aback for a moment, but then agreed.  Neither of us laughed at this waste of taxpayer money......

 

 

[SgtRock]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

My theatre manager ( I finished my nursing carrer as a theatre nurse ) in a well known London hospital was a little dictator that allowed no aspect of the theatre to escape her dictat. I never experienced such a high turnover of staff ever before, as she drove many dedicated and experienced staff to seek work elsewhere. Yet nothing was ever done by the hospital management to reform her. After 10 years, I had to seek early retirement just to escape her.

 

I would to give my opinion on this.

 

It would be going off topic and does not really come under the OP

 

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

I would have to disagree , the nhs was set up to provide free healthcare,

I think this link provides an historical look

http://www.nhshistory.net/shorthistory.htm

NOTHING is "free".

When they set up the NHS few of the treatments we take for granted were available. Even antibiotics were new.

It was never intended to cover everything it does now.

[Retiredandhappyhere]

Like many others, I paid full contributions into the NHS all my working life until retirement and still pay the normal amount of UK income tax on all my income plus some VAT and yet, if I were to have a serious illness in Thailand, I am not allowed to return to the UK for "free" treatment.  In addition, I can claim no other benefits and my State Pension is pegged at its starting level 10 years ago.  On its own, perhaps that might be acceptable, until one reads about all the unnecessary "freebies" being handed out by the NHS and other Government departments, often to non UK citizens, who have never contributed into the system at all.

[dick dasterdly]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The nurses don't care and consider the patients (and of course, anyone who mentions that a patient needs attention) a nuisance - taking them away from chatting to each other.

You can blame the nursing heirachy and the politicians for that. In what must be the most stupid move ever, they made nursing a degree qualification, which instantly stopped the most dedicated bum wipers from becoming nurses, and giving it to silly people that have no idea as to what real nursing is about.

Nursing should go back to what it is- a TRADE, and have hospital training again as an apprenticeship. I trained in hospital, just before it was phased out, and the quality and dedication of those qualified under the new regime was dire.

While I accept that nurse practitioners ( or as I like to call them, wannabe doctors ) need a degree, ward nurses do not. All that has happened is that we now have nurses of the type you mention, and the dedicated ones are retiring. God help us, as the nurses won't.

 

One evening he was vocal in his view that all those over 50 should no longer be entitled to NHS care......  I've no doubt he's a nurse nowadays, so good luck to older people in his care 

It takes a special sort of person to be a geriatric nurse, and I certainly wasn't one. I would assume he is doing something more suited to his character, just as I did.

While I would think 50 is a bit young, I can see the day when over 70s have any life saving treatment denied. That echelon of the population uses far more medical resources than probably the rest of the population combined, and it is unsustainable in the long run as the aged population increases. I hope they also bring in voluntary euthanasia, rather than just sending people to hospices to suffer much.

Absolutely IVF should no longer be free.

 

PS I had major surgery in a large NHS hospital, and my experience was appalling. There was only ONE decent nurse, and she was hospital trained, The rest of the "newspeak" uni mob were attrocious, and the ward was filthy.

 

You're right about the horrible child of a friend's views - he was interested in looking after children and, as my friend immediately pointed out - he'd change his mind once she and her husband were 50!

 

I also agree that nursing should be a vocation for those that derive pleasure from looking after people.  A degree is not necessary, and just turns the vocation into something more mercenary and 'self-important'.

 

One of my brothers was seriously ill  with meningitis of the brain, and was therefore in the ICU unit.  To be fair, the nursing staff there paid attention to all the 'monitors' -  but only one old nurse cared when I pointed out that his feet etc. were filthy - and did something about it.

 

I was there for three days whilst he was unconscious (and expected to die), and so talked a little to the old nurse who actually showed some compassion.  She said that the 'old school' nurses (who genuinely cared) had mostly retired - and from my experience, I can only assume she was telling the truth.

[Basil B]

17 hours ago, jadee said:

To the best of my knowledge, the cost to the NHS of so-called 'medical tourism' comes from people not paying for their care. It's not that the NHS ignores it or lets them off, it's that they present the patients with the bill and it goes unpaid. I saw this in a documentary once. Unless the hospitals were allowed to call the police and have the patients detained until payment was made, I don't see this changing. Such a practice probably contravenes peoples' human rights. 

The purpose of the NHS has constantly evolved over the decades, there has always been huge public support across all sections of society. I don't sense that there is much support for cutting services. The problem is obvious: the NHS has to care for people as it always has but people are living longer and suffering from more complex conditions. Drugs costing £30,000 or less are approved by Nice if they give patients an extra year of life. For cancer we're talking a £60,000 limit. Yet the patients recieving them have never paid anything like that much into the system via taxation or NI contributions. The average wage in England is less than £30,000. 
While I agree with the OP's list of possible savings, British governments have always found ways to increase NHS funding when value for money was assured. For example, between 1957 and 1961, Nation Insurance contributions were raised three times as explicit health tax increases. Through the 1980s and 90s NHS spending was constrained but then the 2002 Budget brought in more NI increases to match European average health expenditure. The goal was to increase NHS spending by over 40% by 2008. Given that huge increase, it's astonishing that the NHS should still be 'in crisis', but it certainly has been and still it. The problem is that no one wants to pay for what they get. People even have their travel expenses reimbursed as shown on Michael Moore's 'Sicko' documentary. 

 

I recall talking to a Flemish guy working here in the UK shortly after BREXIT, he was telling me of a work colleague from outside the UK (the work they were doing was highly specialised so no question as to whether they should be working in the UK) who required medical treatment for a preexisting treatment, he was willing and able to pay for his treatment but it was too much trouble for the hospital administrators to raise an invoice.

[jamie2009]

There are a few issues with the NHS none associated with the actual care provided which I believe still be very good.

1) Chief Executives are there associates on massive salaries, they are non medical people. They then receive a Redundancy Package and return on a Consultancy basis on even more money. What happened to the Managers and Matrons who used to run the hospitals ?

2) Drugs Companies, the NHS pay well over the odds for Drugs, whose fault, bit on both sides.

3) Hospitals built under the PFI Schemes, big business making mega bucks leasing them back.

They have closed the A&E in my town, reason, not enough staff, if you have a Heart Attack they might as well take you to the Morgue as its at least a 35 minute drive to the nearest A&E on a road notorious for traffic hold ups.

 

[dick dasterdly]

8 minutes ago, jamie2009 said:

There are a few issues with the NHS none associated with the actual care provided which I believe still be very good.

1) Chief Executives are there associates on massive salaries, they are non medical people. They then receive a Redundancy Package and return on a Consultancy basis on even more money. What happened to the Managers and Matrons who used to run the hospitals ?

2) Drugs Companies, the NHS pay well over the odds for Drugs, whose fault, bit on both sides.

3) Hospitals built under the PFI Schemes, big business making mega bucks leasing them back.

They have closed the A&E in my town, reason, not enough staff, if you have a Heart Attack they might as well take you to the Morgue as its at least a 35 minute drive to the nearest A&E on a road notorious for traffic hold ups.

 

This happens in most government/council run operations.

 

Even if they don't return on a consultancy basis, the top people were frequently given large salary increases to improve their final salary pensions.....