Autistic UK hacker faces extradition to US

[rooster59]

Autistic UK hacker faces extradition to US

 

 

A London Court has ruled that 32 year-old Lauri Love should be extradited to the US to face charges of hacking US government computer systems.

 

Judge Nina Tempia said: “I’m going to extradite Mr Love, but what I mean by that is that I’m going to send his case to the secretary of state.”

 

Leaving the court with his father and lawyer Karen Todner, Love told reporters: “I thank the judge for giving us an opportunity to win at a higher court and set a stronger precedent, so I think this only helps the causes of securing better justice. It’s unfortunate for me and my family that we have to go through another six months or a year of legal stuff, but it’s what we have to do.”

 

Suicide risk

 

Love, who was deemed a suicide risk, has Aspereger’s syndrome and suffers from depression. He is accused of stealing ‘massive amounts of data’ from the FBI, US army and Department of Justice. He said that he will appeal the decision at the High Court and is willing to go all the way to the European Court of Human Rights.

 

‘Exacting vengeance’

 

His father Rev. Alexander Love added: “It is my belief that it is not fair or just that a boy who’s got mental health issues can be taken away from his family, who are his support network, merely to satisfy the desire of the Americans, to exact what I feel is vengeance on him.”

 

Lauri Love’s case parallels Gary McKinnon’s who also has Asperger’s syndrome and faced similar charges. In 2012 then Secretary of State,Theresa May, blocked the extradition before taking away such powers from the Secretary of State and handing them over to the courts.

 

Anonymous

 

Love is allegedly part of the hacktivist group ‘anonymous’.He is said to have carried out the cyber attack as part of a 2012-2013 campaign to protest the death of Aaron Swartz, a hacker who committed suicide whilst on trial. According to his lawyers, he faces a maximum of 99 years in prison and fines of $9 million.

 

 

-- © Copyright Euronews 2016-09-17

[sandrabbit]

Sorry no sympathy, you've been caught and you admit you did it so face the penalties you knew you would get if you were caught and trying to use Asperger's as an excuse along with parading your minister father. I was watching the BBC news last night and this guy is bricking himself. His father standing there and saying what a good boy he is and autistic to boot, pity he didn't supervise his son's internet use.

[hansnl]

It is a shame that European countries tend to deliver their own citizens that committed a crime in their own country to the US.  While the US does not do that, does not recognise the International courts.  I always thought if you committed a crime in your own country you should be tried in your own country.  Appeasing the US vengeance is definitely a no-no.  Most certainly not for an autistic guy, knowing the track record of the US.

[coma]

Next stop ! The Ecuadorian Embassy. I am sure Mr Assange will be happy to have a new friend.

 

On a serious note. Yes. He is guilty but is extradition in the best interests of both parties considering the lad's mental health issues. Taking him away from his family is the LAST thing anyone should be doing. The other side of the coin, he would become a financial burden to the US taxpayer, by both putting him through expensive legal proceeding and then incarcerating him in an expensive special needs unit.

[scotchonrocks]

15 minutes ago, sandrabbit said:

Sorry no sympathy, you've been caught and you admit you did it so face the penalties you knew you would get if you were caught and trying to use Asperger's as an excuse along with parading your minister father. I was watching the BBC news last night and this guy is bricking himself. His father standing there and saying what a good boy he is and autistic to boot, pity he didn't supervise his son's internet use.

You insensitive arrogant jerk. You simply don't understand mental health issues. If this man has diagnosed autism, you need to know it's a serious mental condition. Stick to a subject you are well informed about.

[soalbundy]

19 minutes ago, scotchonrocks said:

You insensitive arrogant jerk. You simply don't understand mental health issues. If this man has diagnosed autism, you need to know it's a serious mental condition. Stick to a subject you are well informed about.

Life for hackers, no matter where, no matter what. While some admittedly expose unpleasant truths the majority are an expensive danger to society. There is now a sophisticated group who want to bring down the internet completely originating from Russia or China, there is, according to the Americans,nothing they can do to stop it, cant Russia and China be cut off from the internet until the authorities in those countries sort themselves out ?

[lineofentry]

This hack was harmless without any real sinister motives. It exposed the weakness of systems that should have been better if those in charge had been doing their job properly. Instead of sour grapes they should be giving him a medal.

[bumpkin]

The USA government should be grateful that someone with no malicious intent,  has tested their computer defences and found them lacking.  The holes in the software were obviously  present and they could have been discovered by some foreign power with evil intent.   Is the US government just trying to cover the obvious fact of the incompetence of their own software engineers.     

[ukrules]

He commited a crime in the UK, it should be a UK issue. The Americans have been told no before, the woman who said no before is now the prime minister.

 

If the Americans push their usage of this extradition treaty too far is will be disregarded.

[soalbundy]

9 minutes ago, ukrules said:

He commited a crime in the UK, it should be a UK issue. The Americans have been told no before, the woman who said no before is now the prime minister.

 

If the Americans push their usage of this extradition treaty too far is will be disregarded.

He initiated the crime in the UK but the crime was in the USA, they have a case, autism didn't affect his hacking skills, he is obviously intelligent and knew what he was doing,he would also have known it was illegal.

[ukrules]

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

He initiated the crime in the UK but the crime was in the USA, they have a case, autism didn't affect his hacking skills, he is obviously intelligent and knew what he was doing,he would also have known it was illegal.

 

The problem is with the extradition treaty. It's heavily one sided. His autism is irrelevant.

 

He did the crime in the UK so he should be punished in the UK. They call it a jury of your peers for a reason.

 

[new2here]

 

The problem is with the extradition treaty. It's heavily one sided. His autism is irrelevant.

 

He did the crime in the UK so he should be punished in the UK. They call it a jury of your peers for a reason.

 

I don't know if I'd agree with that.. This is, in part, what makes these kinds of crimes harder to prosecute.

In the past you had to physically be at the place of crime, making jurisdiction a bit clearer.. But now, you can commit crimes remotely... IMHO, not actually being in the country where the crime was committed then does not automatically exclude the possibility that you should (or will) stand trial for your alleged crime in that other country.

So, while I cede his physical location at the time of the alleged crime was not in the US or a place where US law is exclusive (like aboard a US registered aircraft or within a recognized diplomatic mission), his alleged crime is still subject to US law... and as a party to a government-to-government agreement, so long as he receives proper judicial review under applicable UK and in line with the applicable extradition treaty, I don't have an issue with him being extradited to the US to stand trial.

Does his alleged mental condition enter into it? For me, yes it does.. But that too should be a part of the larger judicial review - and not a wholesale pass on the possibility of extradition.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[ukrules]

There is a major disparity between the punishment for the crime in question.

 

From what I've read the maximum punishment term in the UK would be something like just under 3 years as opposed to 99 years in prison in the US.

 

[scotchonrocks]

1 hour ago, lineofentry said:

This hack was harmless without any real sinister motives. It exposed the weakness of systems that should have been better if those in charge had been doing their job properly. Instead of sour grapes they should be giving him a medal.

Exactly! Hire him like they did with the 'Catch me if you can' character. We can't be jailing mentally handicapped people unless they are a genuine menace to society. There are more efficient ways to deal with this man.

[maxcorrigan]

1 hour ago, scotchonrocks said:

Exactly! Hire him like they did with the 'Catch me if you can' character. We can't be jailing mentally handicapped people unless they are a genuine menace to society. There are more efficient ways to deal with this man.

Exactly, and surely the British government could also use him, hacking China or Russia our perceived enemies! 

[phantomfiddler]

The good news is that he is a suicide risk. Give him all the gear and a copy of "Final Exit" and save us all from the financial burden of keeping this a*s*h*l* behind bars !

[BuaBS]

Hacking governments is no crime in my book. They hack and spy on us too.

 

[ScotBkk]

4 hours ago, ukrules said:

There is a major disparity between the punishment for the crime in question.

 

From what I've read the maximum punishment term in the UK would be something like just under 3 years as opposed to 99 years in prison in the US.

 

American Justice

The American judicial so-called system is an ass IMHO. 

 

The basic reality of American prisons is not that of the lock and key but more so the lock and clock. They don't give any criminal a reasonable time to work towards.

 

It's all wrong and facing any juries is a complete farce considering the prosecutors work on a foregone conclusion.

 

Everyone, is guilty no matter what or whatever the evidence happens to be. There's so many people's banged up in the USA and for such a long time, to me it's a sheer disgrace against inhumanity.

 

It's a whole different ball game to the way criminals are dealt with in Europe. I do understand a lot of crimes are committed with guns but there again' they're not all related to using arms. 

 

All in all, I personally think this boy shouldn't be sent to any U.S court and could be dealt with in the UK since the crime was committed in Britain. 

 

Just saying ....... 

 

Edited September 17, 2016 by ScotBkk

[Baerboxer]

6 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Life for hackers, no matter where, no matter what. While some admittedly expose unpleasant truths the majority are an expensive danger to society. There is now a sophisticated group who want to bring down the internet completely originating from Russia or China, there is, according to the Americans,nothing they can do to stop it, cant Russia and China be cut off from the internet until the authorities in those countries sort themselves out ?

 

Strange how all the bad guys are Russian and Chinese and the good guys trying to protect us all American. Of course, the Americans would never ever hack or anything like that would they?

Try and get an American extradited like the bitch who murdered and English girl in Italy in some sexual perversion. Or any American service person for any crime whatsoever.

 

Time other countries stopped pandering to American "justice" which always manages to favor America.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

5 hours ago, ukrules said:

There is a major disparity between the punishment for the crime in question.

 

From what I've read the maximum punishment term in the UK would be something like just under 3 years as opposed to 99 years in prison in the US.

 

 

There also a major disparity in attitudes. If the American government perceives they've been wronged, they want vengeance and they want to be the ones exacting it. If an American wrongs a foreign government or commits a crime in a foreign country then that country can whistle Dixie because they'll never get an extradition.

 

 

[sandrabbit]

6 hours ago, scotchonrocks said:

You insensitive arrogant jerk. You simply don't understand mental health issues. If this man has diagnosed autism, you need to know it's a serious mental condition. Stick to a subject you are well informed about.

he is the 2nd UK person to use this defence, the first got away with it and I don't think he will. it's the same as all the druggies on here saying it was only 2 grammes etc but it's still illegal in Thailand. all this talk about treaties etc is <deleted>, this is why mr wiki is hiding in the Ecuadorian embassy because the request from Sweden fulfils all the correct laws of the UK & EU. why didn't he hide in the Australian embassy?. this is not about mental health issues, he knows what he has done and that's why he is bricking himself.

 

the different thing is whether you agree with the spying that the UK & US carries out but that is a personal thing but as far as the law stands he will eventually be extradited in 6 months to a year to the US, even the EU law won't protect him.

Edited September 17, 2016 by sandrabbit

[sandrabbit]

4 hours ago, maxcorrigan said:

Exactly, and surely the British government could also use him, hacking China or Russia our perceived enemies! 

GCHQ already has a lot of people better and more reliable than him.

[sandrabbit]

and it's the same kind of story like British grandmother faces death penalty in Indonesia as the UK press put it instead of UK citizen faces death penalty for smuggling.  

[hawker9000]

9 hours ago, hansnl said:

It is a shame that European countries tend to deliver their own citizens that committed a crime in their own country to the US.

While the US does not do that, does not recognise the International courts.

I always thought if you committed a crime in your own country you should be tried in your own country.

Appeasing the US vengeance is definitely a no-no.

Most certainly not for an autistic guy, knowing the track record of the US.

 

So now we're using words like "vengeance" and "appeasement" to try and inject some counterfeit emotionalism into an otherwise black & white issue.  His autism has absolutely nothing to do with it; neither does his dad's religious standing.  The correct word is "justice".  Miscreants commit CRIMES.  People are tried for their CRIMES.  People receive sentences and go to prison for CRIMES.  Mr. Lauri Love is accused of CRIMES.   Allowing the use of international borders to try & hide from one's victims, and from justice, is ludicrous.  Little children - and their supporters - trying to hide behind technical loopholes.  Try and get your head around what a computer crime is, and the fact that borders don't exist for these scum.  I hope he gets the full 99 years.

 

"It’s unfortunate for me and my family that we have to go through another six months or a year of legal stuff, but it’s what we have to do.”  Yeah Reverend.  And it's even more unfortunate that you raised a criminal for a son.  You'd think a minister could do a little better than that, wouldn't you?

 

The British "track record";  SOooo much better than the U.S., eh?   LOL   Are the British trying to prosecute this guy? 

 

 

 

 

[River7471]

11 hours ago, sandrabbit said:

Sorry no sympathy, you've been caught and you admit you did it so face the penalties you knew you would get if you were caught and trying to use Asperger's as an excuse along with parading your minister father. I was watching the BBC news last night and this guy is bricking himself. His father standing there and saying what a good boy he is and autistic to boot, pity he didn't supervise his son's internet use.

It's hypocrisy.  The US Central Intelligence Agency gave money and arms to the Mujahadeen, Islamic radicals which eventually became the Taliban.  The CIA crushed the Russian army with the Mujahadeen.  Then the CIA funded Islamic radicals led by bin Laden attack the US on September 11th.  No one was ever prosecuted in the CIA for funding terrorism.  The young man is autistic, therefore he is less responsible for his actions then the CIA. 

 

The US should offer him a job since he is no more or less criminal then the CIA funding terrorists, and then employ him in computer security.

[ukrules]

Step back into history a little, here's an interesting link which I believe is relevant to this case : https://www.bl.uk/magna-carta/articles/magna-carta-and-jury-trial

 

The guy involved in this case tweeted the link himself just minutes ago

[ukrules]

The guy in question Lauri Love just tweeted this link, something to consider I think :

 

https://www.bl.uk/magna-carta/articles/magna-carta-and-jury-trial

[ace]

Gary Mckinnon was looking for evidence of aliens on us government servers with woeful security. This guy deliberately targeted servers (probably also with poor security)  as part of a known hacker collective,  doesn't have much of a defence IMO.  I don't agree with US policy though,  seems arbitrary and vindictive.  Foreign governments are hacking them 24x7.

[new2here]

Gary Mckinnon was looking for evidence of aliens on us government servers with woeful security. This guy deliberately targeted servers (probably also with poor security)  as part of a known hacker collective,  doesn't have much of a defence IMO.  I don't agree with US policy though,  seems arbitrary and vindictive.  Foreign governments are hacking them 24x7.

I agree that the notion of prosecutorial discretion can - in some cases - be viewed as a means to favor one person/party, over another and that opens the door to vindictiveness etc.. I agree.

But... I think allowing for prosecutorial discretion, is - on balance - a good thing or perhaps a necessary evil if you will.

It may be the overall security level on these systems was substandard (may be, I don't have the facts to say one way or the other) even IF true, for me, that's not a pass to the crime itself.

It may also be that his intentions may have been less than nefarious (also don't have the facts to say definitively).. That too isn't an absolute pass either.

Therefore, I entrust the judge and jury to properly examine the facts and apply that against the law that was in effect at that time.



Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Lokie]

On 9/17/2016 at 10:16 AM, scotchonrocks said:

You insensitive arrogant jerk. You simply don't understand mental health issues. If this man has diagnosed autism, you need to know it's a serious mental condition. Stick to a subject you are well informed about.

So that will explain the show he joyfully put on outside the courthouse with his supporters before the case ruling that he will not be going anywhere which he joyfully sang while grinning ear to ear....

 

I can understand if it is because the guy has mental issues, some may have thought it was because he thought he can get away with it...? Mmm??

Peter Suttcliffe said he had mental issues after murdering and assulting a lot of women back in the 70s/80s, is there a difference or was Suttcliffe not mental - It is not normal to just go out and murder someone is it, neither is knowingly breaking laws of other sorts - seems where do you draw the line... The question should be is he responsible in the eyes of the court/law of the land and in this case it appears he is - so he is guilty and will have to face justice, and if he does have issues then surly his parents/carers should have been supervising his internet use (maybe some others in this case have questions to answer then?)