Nationwide B.s.

[topfield]

Hi,

Here's one for the books to astound you if you are a Flexaccount debit card user.

Recent testing using the two different Nationwide cards in Bkk ATM's simultaneously has shown you can get up to 10 satang more for your pounds if you use the Nationwide cash card and not their debit card . The two cards use diffgerent systems. The debit card uses the Visa system and the cash card uses the Mastercard Cirrus system.

If you use the debit card, the rate and transaction details will appear on your online banking/statement. If you use the cash card no details are given. Also no overdraft possible on the cash card unlike the debit card.

Time to switch cards ?

NB Before you rush ourt to exchange cards bear in mind that normally cash cards are only issued to those with a poor/low credit rating !!

[samran]

So:

Change 10 pounds, get an extra 1 baht (1.4 pence)

Change 100 pounds, get an extra 10 baht (14 pence)

Change 1000 pounds, get an extra 100 baht (1.47 pounds)

Huge savings. What is the opportunity cost of all this topfield?

[BIGTOE3]

So:

Change 10 pounds, get an extra 1 baht (1.4 pence)

Change 100 pounds, get an extra 10 baht (14 pence)

Change 1000 pounds, get an extra 100 baht (1.47 pounds)

Huge savings. What is the opportunity cost of all this topfield?

Debit card also pays Interest of 3% plus if £1,000 put in each month ??? mix it with a Rewards Credit card for maximum gains and less inconvenience.

just sticking my toe in

BT

[Khun Bob]

Hi,

Here's one for the books to astound you if you are a Flexaccount debit card user.

Recent testing using the two different Nationwide cards in Bkk ATM's simultaneously has shown you can get up to 10 satang more for your pounds if you use the Nationwide cash card and not their debit card . The two cards use diffgerent systems. The debit card uses the Visa system and the cash card uses the Mastercard Cirrus system.

If you use the debit card, the rate and transaction details will appear on your online banking/statement. If you use the cash card no details are given. Also no overdraft possible on the cash card unlike the debit card.

Time to switch cards ?

NB Before you rush ourt to exchange cards bear in mind that normally cash cards are only issued to those with a poor/low credit rating !!

You can get the transaction details on a Nwide Cash card withdrwal by request but it is a pain in the A55 getting hold of.

There may also be an alternative to the NWide flex now. Whilst I cant confirm this yet - i'm still getting/asking about this - if you have a post office credit card and it is in credit - ie you have made a deposit in your account so so they own you money not the other way around (which is usually the case with a credit card) you could use this in an atm in thailand and get a mastercard rate without charges - not confirmed yet - but looking into this...

[bendix]

Hi,

Here's one for the books to astound you if you are a Flexaccount debit card user.

Recent testing using the two different Nationwide cards in Bkk ATM's simultaneously has shown you can get up to 10 satang more for your pounds if you use the Nationwide cash card and not their debit card . The two cards use diffgerent systems. The debit card uses the Visa system and the cash card uses the Mastercard Cirrus system.

If you use the debit card, the rate and transaction details will appear on your online banking/statement. If you use the cash card no details are given. Also no overdraft possible on the cash card unlike the debit card.

Time to switch cards ?

NB Before you rush ourt to exchange cards bear in mind that normally cash cards are only issued to those with a poor/low credit rating !!

My God . . do you EVER stop? You really need to get out more.

Yes Topfield. It is astounding. Completely astounding. And I shall certainly rush out to take advantage of your research.

Edited November 27, 2006 by bendix

[steveromagnino]

Hi,

Here's one for the books to astound you if you are a Flexaccount debit card user.

Recent testing using the two different Nationwide cards in Bkk ATM's simultaneously has shown you can get up to 10 satang more for your pounds if you use the Nationwide cash card and not their debit card . The two cards use diffgerent systems. The debit card uses the Visa system and the cash card uses the Mastercard Cirrus system.

If you use the debit card, the rate and transaction details will appear on your online banking/statement. If you use the cash card no details are given. Also no overdraft possible on the cash card unlike the debit card.

Time to switch cards ?

NB Before you rush ourt to exchange cards bear in mind that normally cash cards are only issued to those with a poor/low credit rating !!

Can you please do a similar analysis for NZD and Aussie dollars?

My brother is looking to exchange around $50 AUS and probably $200 NZD later this week. If you can identify the optimal way to acheieve this, then perhaps we can stay at the Oriential using the proceeds of your schemes.

Alternatively, I suppose I could get significantly better rates just doing cash in those places in Pratunam that have a smaller spread than the banks, but I could be wrong; please investigate for me, I want to know if it is just pounds or whether other currencies have a similar spread issue.

Ignore the doubters; they are probably only exchange 5 squid or whatever. My brother is doing significant 2 and 3 digit size currency exchange.

Do you think it would be worthwhile to buy future contracts or forward contracts or perhaps options, to prevent currency risk for these amounts?

[bendix]

[libya 115]

So:

Change 10 pounds, get an extra 1 baht (1.4 pence)

Change 100 pounds, get an extra 10 baht (14 pence)

Change 1000 pounds, get an extra 100 baht (1.47 pounds)

Huge savings. What is the opportunity cost of all this topfield?

It probably isn't worth the trouble changing cards. The phone calls, stationery, and postage involved in contacting the bank would negate profits initially.

Plus the stigma attached to owning a cash-card would be so humiliating, it would be so shameful if one were discovered in possession of such a card, which are exclusively issued to bankrupts and those recently released from debtors prisons.

[bendix]

It probably isn't worth the trouble changing cards. The phone calls, stationery, and postage involved in contacting the bank would negate profits initially.

Plus the stigma attached to owning a cash-card would be so humiliating, it would be so shameful if one were discovered in possession of such a card, which are exclusively issued to bankrupts and those recently released from debtors prisons.

No no no. I just won't accept that libya.

Given the time, effort and energy topfield has taken to expose this horrendous and shocking scam, I think we owe him a duty of honour to go out and change cards immediately.

I, for one, am already making some big plans about what to do with my extra 100 baht per thousand quid. I'm thinking of investing it in a long term equity fund, sitting back for 20-30 years and seeing it increase to - maybe - 500 baht.

Then I can retire, knowing happily that I really stuck it to those thieving banksters.

[Rinrada]

Just dumped my First Direct/HSBC card/a/c.

From Feb next year if you dont keep a minimum of £1600 quid in your everyday C/A then they will charge you £10 a month for their "trouble"

Greedy -Robin Baskits......not as if they never make a profit.....isit

[libya 115]

Just dumped my First Direct/HSBC card/a/c.

From Feb next year if you dont keep a minimum of £1600 quid in your everyday C/A then they will charge you £10 a month for their "trouble"

Greedy -Robin Baskits......not as if they never make a profit.....isit

The rules that come into force (In February 2007) with First Direct are;

1. Pay in 1500 GBP per month.

2. Have an average balance of 1500 GBP per month.

3. If you have a First Direct savings account.

4. If you have a First Direct mortgage.

5. If you have a First Direct credit card.

6. If you have a First Direct personal loan.

7. If you have First Direct car or home insurance.

Or pay the GBP 10 per month fee.

The easy way to go, would be to open an e-savings account with as little as 1 GBP and avoid the 10GBP per month charges!

Edited November 27, 2006 by libya 115

[steveromagnino]

[No no no. I just won't accept that libya.

Given the time, effort and energy topfield has taken to expose this horrendous and shocking scam, I think we owe him a duty of honour to go out and change cards immediately.

I, for one, am already making some big plans about what to do with my extra 100 baht per thousand quid. I'm thinking of investing it in a long term equity fund, sitting back for 20-30 years and seeing it increase to - maybe - 500 baht.

Which fund?

I have a lazy 20b that I had been allowing to sit in the drawer. I am thinking of buying some Eurobonds and making my money work for me in a diversified portfolio. I have too much money in the Thai currency; perhaps I am thinking along these lines:

20b in pounds

40 baht in ringgit (I already have some change at home)

30 baht in Aussie dollars

30 baht in kiwi dollars

remainder in baht

Can you recommend a good private banker or perhaps a series of funds to invest my money? With the currency profits I will make from exchanging the money not using banks, I am already going to be well on the road to retirement in Thailand at age 50, and buying that dream house in Soi Struggle just round the corner from Ubon.

Then I can write to my friend in USA:

Dear John

I write from Jungwat Ubon

My poor heart broken you mutt undersatan...etc etc

And while I may have coronary issues, it won't matter with my little nestegg of diversified stock and bonds in multiple currencies.

[samran]

[No no no. I just won't accept that libya.

Given the time, effort and energy topfield has taken to expose this horrendous and shocking scam, I think we owe him a duty of honour to go out and change cards immediately.

I, for one, am already making some big plans about what to do with my extra 100 baht per thousand quid. I'm thinking of investing it in a long term equity fund, sitting back for 20-30 years and seeing it increase to - maybe - 500 baht.

Which fund?

I have a lazy 20b that I had been allowing to sit in the drawer. I am thinking of buying some Eurobonds and making my money work for me in a diversified portfolio. I have too much money in the Thai currency; perhaps I am thinking along these lines:

20b in pounds

40 baht in ringgit (I already have some change at home)

30 baht in Aussie dollars

30 baht in kiwi dollars

remainder in baht

Can you recommend a good private banker or perhaps a series of funds to invest my money? With the currency profits I will make from exchanging the money not using banks, I am already going to be well on the road to retirement in Thailand at age 50, and buying that dream house in Soi Struggle just round the corner from Ubon.

Then I can write to my friend in USA:

Dear John

I write from Jungwat Ubon

My poor heart broken you mutt undersatan...etc etc

And while I may have coronary issues, it won't matter with my little nestegg of diversified stock and bonds in multiple currencies.

I hear Kip and Riel are great currencies to invest in. Maybe a 5 or 10 baht worth of Kyat on the side too.

[Rinrada]

Just dumped my First Direct/HSBC card/a/c.

From Feb next year if you dont keep a minimum of £1600 quid in your everyday C/A then they will charge you £10 a month for their "trouble"

Greedy -Robin Baskits......not as if they never make a profit.....isit

This is their profits from last year before the (and all UK banks got whacked by the UK Regulator for OVERCHARGING...)

HSBC has unveiled record profits of more than £9bn - but how does it account for making the equivalent of £1m an hour?

Interest payments on credit cards, loans and mortgages as well as overdraft charges all swell bank coffers. ...music to their ears.....

But while bank profits soar so does individual debt - by July last year the UK owed more than £1 trillion on credit cards loans and mortgages.

Consumers may wince at the news that HSBC raked in £9.6bn last year, Royal Bank of Scotland £6.9bn and Barclays £4.6bn - however, the good news is the majority of the cash came from overseas rather than UK customers. ....those luvly little EXCHANGE rate charges

For example, HSBC chairman Sir John Bond said on Monday that just 24% of its profits came from the UK. ...WOT is that ALL only 24 % ....crying....

The rest came from Asia, Europe and the Americas - mainly from overseas investment in corporate banking.

Yet such arguments do little to cool claims of 'rip-off Britain' infecting the finance sector.

Not True surely ...isit?

[Gary A]

It is obvious at least to me that Topfield has a hobby that keeps him occupied. Sniffing out these bank scams has to be a tough job. HOWEVER, it appears that few appreciate his efforts. All these high finance transactions gives me a headache. My major decision has always been whether or not to buy a bar-girl a drink. Buying her a drink absolutely destroys all the savings I have accumulated by following Topfield's advice. Maybe Topfield can give me some advice as to why there are so few satang coins in circulation.

Yesterday I paid a baht bus driver 9 baht rather than 10 baht for my little trip. The Thai fare is 5 baht. Did I get a bargain or did I still overpay? To elaborate a bit, my Thai wife pays 5 baht each for us. The question is whether I should always take my wife with me so we can both go for 5 baht each or if I should go by myself and pay 9 baht?

[bendix]

I never really understand why people are always complaining about Banks.

Frankly, I think banks provide a great service. Consider how easy and convenient it is to have your cash managed, able to use ATMs 24 hours a day, and in countries all around the world, internet banking etc etc. It's a great service, and infinitely preferable to the situation 20-30 years ago.

What is wrong with them charging fees for this convenience? Seems to me to be very reasonable indeed and with increased competition, it's easy to find services for very low fees.

And let's face it . . if people have a problem with the likes of HSBC and other banks making what some (but not me) regard as very high profits for these services, why not share in the benefits and buy shares in the banks - that way you share some of the windfall too.

But no . . people prefer to whinge and complain because, let's face it, most of us prefer to be professional victims.

[erikr_]

I never really understand why people are always complaining about Banks.

Frankly, I think banks provide a great service. Consider how easy and convenient it is to have your cash managed, able to use ATMs 24 hours a day, and in countries all around the world, internet banking etc etc. It's a great service, and infinitely preferable to the situation 20-30 years ago.

What is wrong with them charging fees for this convenience? Seems to me to be very reasonable indeed and with increased competition, it's easy to find services for very low fees.

And let's face it . . if people have a problem with the likes of HSBC and other banks making what some (but not me) regard as very high profits for these services, why not share in the benefits and buy shares in the banks - that way you share some of the windfall too.

But no . . people prefer to whinge and complain because, let's face it, most of us prefer to be professional victims.

You need more then 100 baht for getting some stock. So we all will never get them

[Gary A]

I never really understand why people are always complaining about Banks.

Frankly, I think banks provide a great service. Consider how easy and convenient it is to have your cash managed, able to use ATMs 24 hours a day, and in countries all around the world, internet banking etc etc. It's a great service, and infinitely preferable to the situation 20-30 years ago.

What is wrong with them charging fees for this convenience? Seems to me to be very reasonable indeed and with increased competition, it's easy to find services for very low fees.

And let's face it . . if people have a problem with the likes of HSBC and other banks making what some (but not me) regard as very high profits for these services, why not share in the benefits and buy shares in the banks - that way you share some of the windfall too.

But no . . people prefer to whinge and complain because, let's face it, most of us prefer to be professional victims.

Bendix, why do you INSIST on being logical? Don't you think the one percent currency exchange fee for international ATM transactions is excessive? My Thai banks allow me to use my Thai ATM cards for free. I pay NO monthly service charges either with US Citibank nor my Thai accounts. I make wire transfers from the US a couple times a year for a flat $30 US fee and the money is in my Thai bank the very next business day.

I too feel like the banks provide a great service.

[bkkandrew]

I never really understand why people are always complaining about Banks.

Frankly, I think banks provide a great service. Consider how easy and convenient it is to have your cash managed, able to use ATMs 24 hours a day, and in countries all around the world, internet banking etc etc. It's a great service, and infinitely preferable to the situation 20-30 years ago.

What is wrong with them charging fees for this convenience? Seems to me to be very reasonable indeed and with increased competition, it's easy to find services for very low fees.

And let's face it . . if people have a problem with the likes of HSBC and other banks making what some (but not me) regard as very high profits for these services, why not share in the benefits and buy shares in the banks - that way you share some of the windfall too.

But no . . people prefer to whinge and complain because, let's face it, most of us prefer to be professional victims.

Since you seem to be so charitable and willing to donate money to banks, can I let you have my account number so I can join in the party??

Edited November 29, 2006 by bkkandrew

[bendix]

Since you seem to be so charitable and willing to donate money to banks, can I let you have my account number so I can join in the party??

This is just the attitude I'm referring to. How am I 'willing' to donate money to banks?

I get some financial services from banks, and I expect to pay a small but reasonable fee for the convenience that service affords me. Seems fair and reasonable to me. How is that donating?

I pay no fees for the convenience of them storing my salary each month, and giving me limitless chances to withdraw funds from ATM machines or write cheques etc - that's completely free and stops me messing about with keeping boxes of cash under my bed (with the attendant risks). I can use internet banking. For free.

If I choose to use a bank to send lump sums overseas, it costs next to nothing to do that. Should I expect them to do it for free?

Similarly, I have the wonderful freedom of being able to go to just about any country in the world (including Cambodia now) and being able to use just about ANY ATM machine owned by ANY bank in the world, to get out local currency, at a fraction of the cost of using official money changers.

Another example. I have a chunk of savings in an interest bearing account in Australia. It costs me nothing. I have an ATM card which allows me to withdraw funds anywhere in the world, anytime i want. And, on top of that, they are paying me 6%. Of course, they are using my funds to make more than 6% for themselves, and good luck to them. It's the perfect symbiotic relationship.

And, needless to say, noone forces anyone to use banks. If you don't want to use those services, don't. Keep your cash as cash. Life will be more difficult, but you might save yourself a few bucks a month. Each to their own.

I'm sorry. I just don't get it. How am I 'donating' money to the bank? I'm freely paying for a service in exactly the same way I give 50 baht for a taxi ride from soi 11 to the supermarket, or 200 baht for the girl who cuts my hair. Both are offering a service which I, as a self-interested consumer, can choose to use or not use.

And one more thing. If you feel genuinely aggrieved at bank charges and so-called exorbitant profits, don't attack them for it. If you can't beat them, join them. Buy some shares (even ONE share) and you will get some of that profit back.

[manjara]

Since you seem to be so charitable and willing to donate money to banks, can I let you have my account number so I can join in the party??

This is just the attitude I'm referring to. How am I 'willing' to donate money to banks?

I get some financial services from banks, and I expect to pay a small but reasonable fee for the convenience that service affords me. Seems fair and reasonable to me. How is that donating?

I pay no fees for the convenience of them storing my salary each month, and giving me limitless chances to withdraw funds from ATM machines or write cheques etc - that's completely free and stops me messing about with keeping boxes of cash under my bed (with the attendant risks). I can use internet banking. For free.

If I choose to use a bank to send lump sums overseas, it costs next to nothing to do that. Should I expect them to do it for free?

Similarly, I have the wonderful freedom of being able to go to just about any country in the world (including Cambodia now) and being able to use just about ANY ATM machine owned by ANY bank in the world, to get out local currency, at a fraction of the cost of using official money changers.

Another example. I have a chunk of savings in an interest bearing account in Australia. It costs me nothing. I have an ATM card which allows me to withdraw funds anywhere in the world, anytime i want. And, on top of that, they are paying me 6%. Of course, they are using my funds to make more than 6% for themselves, and good luck to them. It's the perfect symbiotic relationship.

And, needless to say, noone forces anyone to use banks. If you don't want to use those services, don't. Keep your cash as cash. Life will be more difficult, but you might save yourself a few bucks a month. Each to their own.

I'm sorry. I just don't get it. How am I 'donating' money to the bank? I'm freely paying for a service in exactly the same way I give 50 baht for a taxi ride from soi 11 to the supermarket, or 200 baht for the girl who cuts my hair. Both are offering a service which I, as a self-interested consumer, can choose to use or not use.

And one more thing. If you feel genuinely aggrieved at bank charges and so-called exorbitant profits, don't attack them for it. If you can't beat them, join them. Buy some shares (even ONE share) and you will get some of that profit back.

I'm not going to start arguing about what are fair charges for the services provided. I would just say that in the last 30 years the costs of managing your money have come down, yet the fees have not decreased by an equivalent amount. How much does it actually cost the banks to send $1000 to your bank account in Thailand? How much do they charge you?

If there was free competition then the cost of the services would come down, but the barriers to entry are substantial - therefore the market is not free and the costs remain higher than they need to be (although generally lower than 30 years ago, taking the services into account).

10 years ago people probably were saying the same thing about the telecom industry. "Why are people complaining about the high cost of international calls? I remember when it used to be 60p/minute to call in Europe! Now I can speak to my relatives for 20p/minute."

Clearly the current situation (less than 2p/minute to most places), is far below the perceived value point for most people 10 years ago. The Telecom industry has been well and truly disrupted, it's time for the same thing to happen with banking; and it will, but perhaps it's a decade or so away.

[Khun Bob]

Topfield is one of the few people on TV that tries to understand how systems work - yes the amounts may be small - yet with a high frequency of transactions they add up.

I appreciate topfields observations and would like him to post his further findings.

If you dont have anything positive to contribute - why contribute ? By making negative contributions all you achieve is alienate the original contributor. If that is what appeals to you then maybe TV is losing track. The ethos in moneysavingexpert.com is much better than here.

Keep up the good work Topfield.

In the UK, big banks methods are increasing coming under scrutiny. As manjara points out their day will come (as has in telecoms) and the costs will fall. At the moment these large organisations hide their charges, by understanding their systems, you can be in a better postition to decide what is best for you.

Edited November 29, 2006 by Khun Bob

[bkkandrew]

Topfield is one of the few people on TV that tries to understand how systems work - yes the amounts may be small - yet with a high frequency of transactions they add up.

I appreciate topfields observations and would like him to post his further findings.

If you dont have anything positive to contribute - why contribute ? By making negative contributions all you achieve is alienate the original contributor. If that is what appeals to you then maybe TV is losing track. The ethos in moneysavingexpert.com is much better than here.

Keep up the good work Topfield.

In the UK, big banks methods are increasing coming under scrutiny. As manjara points out their day will come (as has in telecoms) and the costs will fall. At the moment these large organisations hide their charges, by understanding their systems, you can be in a better postition to decide what is best for you.

Indeed so. This is precisely what I have alluded to in a number of posts now...

There is also the matter of the "ignore" option on TV for those that cannot cope with reading information posted by certain users. Perhaps the complainants about Topfield could investigate the use of that!

[bendix]

I'm not going to start arguing about what are fair charges for the services provided. I would just say that in the last 30 years the costs of managing your money have come down, yet the fees have not decreased by an equivalent amount. How much does it actually cost the banks to send $1000 to your bank account in Thailand? How much do they charge you?

If there was free competition then the cost of the services would come down, but the barriers to entry are substantial - therefore the market is not free and the costs remain higher than they need to be (although generally lower than 30 years ago, taking the services into account).

10 years ago people probably were saying the same thing about the telecom industry. "Why are people complaining about the high cost of international calls? I remember when it used to be 60p/minute to call in Europe! Now I can speak to my relatives for 20p/minute."

Clearly the current situation (less than 2p/minute to most places), is far below the perceived value point for most people 10 years ago. The Telecom industry has been well and truly disrupted, it's time for the same thing to happen with banking; and it will, but perhaps it's a decade or so away.

Good observations, and I dont disagree with them too much.

But. But. But. As you would expect, i have a few ripostes

How much does it cost the girl to cut my hair? Nothing, except for her investment in training, time and infrastructure. I'm sure she generates a decent profit, nonetheless, and good for her. The costs and hassle of me trying to do it myself, just arent worth it. Same same with transferring that $1000.

And there are, of course, alternatives. Compare the cost of sending your $1000 via a bank, to sending that same amount by Western Union or - god forbid, by courier with all it's attendant costs and risks. The costs and security provided by the bank are minimal.

Your point re telcos is well made, and I think you're right in that further competition in the banking sector will reduce costs over time. In which, case they will be even better value.

Now, I'm off to buy some HSBC shares while they're still affordable