British migrant rights defender Andy Hall found guilty in a shock ruling by Bangkok court

[soalbundy]

34 minutes ago, DiscoDan said:

 

If someone makes claims about your company that makes you lose money or possibly lose all your customers  don't you think you should have a right to take them to court?

 

 If Andy Hall had hard evidence then he would of been found not guilty.

Under the defamation laws of Thailand he would still be guilty even if he could prove every point, the truth doesn't count.

[dick dasterdly]

Depressing, but hardly suprising - far less 'shocking'.

[joeyg]

36 minutes ago, CGW said:

Be interesting to see how the BBC & others report this,usually they are very "diplomatic" with any reports from Thailand - if they even bother to report anything!

I think England is "up to it's eyeballs" in it's own melt down.  if you don't know what happens when you poke a hornets nest, hard, are we sorry for the person that did it?

 

There were much more intelligent approaches to revealing this info if it is true.  Takes "half a brain though."

[fasteddie]

42 minutes ago, DiscoDan said:

 

If someone makes claims about your company that makes you lose money or possibly lose all your customers  don't you think you should have a right to take them to court?

 

 If Andy Hall had hard evidence then he would of been found not guilty.

" If Andy Hall had hard evidence then he would of been found not guilty."

 

Not been here long?

[JetsetBkk]

40 minutes ago, CGW said:

Be interesting to see how the BBC & others report this,usually they are very "diplomatic" with any reports from Thailand - if they even bother to report anything!

 

The BBC says it is a three year sentence, suspended for two.  

 

 

[joeyg]

9 minutes ago, CGW said:

Interesting view, what are you doing about "it" using "half a brain" the BBC in my view has become a disgrace considering they are supposed to report unbiased truth, not what is politically correct or the present governments agenda! 

No need for insults buddy.  None of us uses our entire brain potential.  I believe I try to use what I've got to the best of my ability.  "Interesting view, what are you doing about it?"  What would you like me to do?

 

All I'll say is I have helped many people during the course of my career and even still into my retirement.  And it's my good fortune and good karma to have taken advantage of the opportunity to do so.  The details I'm sure I will not share, certainly not here.  Best of luck.

[CockneyGit]

If you can't shut him up, bang him up!

 

Shocking!

[elgordo38]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

”Thailand's laws that allow for criminal punishment and even imprisonment for defamation are in clear breach of Thailand's international human rights obligations. Instead of allowing companies to take human rights defenders to criminal courts for alleged defamation, Thailand needs to thoroughly follow through on allegations of violations of migrant workers' rights.”

Well there it is folks the real Thailand not all this cheesy Ex-pat love in. Of course we are retired here in the LOS why would the Andy Hall case be of interest to us. What is that phrase again "Lastly they came for me" or something to that effect. 

[dick dasterdly]

38 minutes ago, joeyg said:

I think England is "up to it's eyeballs" in it's own melt down.  if you don't know what happens when you poke a hornets nest, hard, are we sorry for the person that did it?

 

There were much more intelligent approaches to revealing this info if it is true.  Takes "half a brain though."

You're quite right of course in that only a tiny percentage of people are brave enough to reveal the truth about things that governments/corporations etc. would rather never be revealed.

 

Some of us admire people who are far more courageous than us - although obviously,  you don't.

 

Having said this, I'd be interest to learn your "more intelligent approaches to revealing this info if it is true".

 

I'm taking your comment that Hall doesn't have "half a brain" as pure, unsubstantiated abuse. 

Edited September 20, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[joeyg]

Oh my the insults are flying today.  It took a while but I'm resolved now not to respond "in kind" and stay above it.  Much better position.

 

"I'd be interest-ed to learn your "more intelligent approaches to revealing this info if it is true"."

 

Well just for starters, do the alleged expose from another country.

 

 

[CGW]

15 minutes ago, joeyg said:

No need for insults buddy.  None of us uses our entire brain potential.  I believe I try to use what I've got to the best of my ability.  "Interesting view, what are you doing about it?"  What would you like me to do?

 

All I'll say is I have helped many people during the course of my career and even still into my retirement.  And it's my good fortune and good karma to have taken advantage of the opportunity to do so.  The details I'm sure I will not share, certainly not here.  Best of luck.

There was no insult intended, I apoligise if my post came accross that way. The point I was trying to make was at least he is doing something! the rest of us just sit back.....................

[shillhater]

1 hour ago, SABloke said:

 

Well, it wasn't "his" claims so why did he have to back it up in court. Read the statement from Finnwatch

 

do not feed shills or trolls

[joeyg]

1 minute ago, CGW said:

There was no insult intended, I apoligise if my post came accross that way. The point I was trying to make was at least he is doing something! the rest of us just sit back.....................

Reality is in my case that for a significant time of the last two years I have spent time in a country, at great peril to myself, involved in the investigation, apprehension and prosecution of domestic and foreign pedophiles.

 

Our success rate became so great that we were provided with a team of PSOs Personal Security Officers, former military, who in fact saved our lives on one occasion.  We had to leave the country because of investigating wealthier/connected local pedophiles.  We worked with 2 national government agencies.  The perpetrators of course had their "people" in government who "ratted" us out.

 

We had to leave the country expeditiously in fear of out lives.  We were provided with bullet proof transport to the airport.  Have a nice day gentlemen...

[elgordo38]

1 hour ago, canopus1969 said:

It's all over the BBC already, quote :  A spokesman for the British embassy in Bangkok said they would be raising the matter with the Thai authorities.

 

Well that's the kiss of death

canopus 1969 you and I have been listening to all this government BS for decades and by now we are immune to their phony sabre rattling. BS is all we have been fed over the decades frankly I have had my fill and just laugh at all those so called Bravado statements. Its nothing but fool fodder for the masses to make them think that governments really do something and a reminder to vote for these fools on election day. I am sick to my stomach of this assine crap. 

Edited September 20, 2016 by elgordo38

[elgordo38]

1 hour ago, steelepulse said:

 

>> If Andy Hall had hard evidence then he would of been found not guilty.

 

Do you really believe that?  Serious question.

Hang him out on the washline his brain is clean.

[joeyg]

17 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

You're quite right of course in that only a tiny percentage of people are brave enough to reveal the truth about things that governments/corporations etc. would rather never be revealed.

 

Some of us admire people who are far more courageous than us - although obviously,  you don't.

 

Having said this, I'd be interest to learn your "more intelligent approaches to revealing this info if it is true".

 

I'm taking your comment that Hall doesn't have "half a brain" as pure, unsubstantiated abuse. 

No abuse.  Just one man's opinion.

[Asiantravel]

1 hour ago, CGW said:

Be interesting to see how the BBC & others report this,usually they are very "diplomatic" with any reports from Thailand - if they even bother to report anything!

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-37415590

[pookiki]

7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

You're quite right of course in that only a tiny percentage of people are brave enough to reveal the truth about things that governments/corporations etc. would rather never be revealed.

 

Some of us admire people who are far more courageous than us - although obviously,  you don't.

 

Having said this, I'd be interest to learn your "more intelligent approaches to revealing this info if it is true".

No doubt that Andy is brave in fighting this case. The same can be said of the publishers of Phuket Wan when they merely republished allegations against the Thai Navy concerning the trafficking of Rohingya boat people.

 

Hindsight it always 20/20.  There were better ways to release this information and/or to package it. Finnwatch should have taken the lead in releasing this report.  One need only look as to the way reports are released and published by HRW or Amnesty International or even the ILO. Usually reports are not attributed to a specific individual. One must also look at the way in which allegations are framed.  Often. allegations of human rights abuses are attributed to an 'industry' or an 'government organization' as opposed to a specific individual.

 

Finnwatch had the primary responsibility to assess Thailand's legal environment on defamation when the report was released. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.  In saying this, I am not condoning the restrictions on freedom of expression that exist in Thailand. Nonetheless, the restrictions are the reality in which we live.

[DiscoDan]

1 hour ago, steelepulse said:

 

>> If Andy Hall had hard evidence then he would of been found not guilty.

 

Do you really believe that?  Serious question.

Yes for example if there was child Labour and he fitted up one of the workers with a hidden camera and managed to get footage of it, that would be hard for the judges to ignore.

 

 

[elgordo38]

1 hour ago, pookiki said:

The answer to your first question is 'yes'. 

 

As for the production of 'hard evidence' there is going to be a natural bias by Thai Courts against the testimony of migrant workers - especially migrant workers from Myanmar. Anyone who has just a limited familiarity of the working conditions of the vast majority of migrant workers knows the abuse that takes place - child labor, slavery, and debt bondage being the most serious. The only viable strategy in curing these serious issues is to get the western companies to vigorously enforce the proper treatment of workers in their supply chain. Thai companies aren't going to change their ways without the threat of economic action or consumer boycotts.

Yes Andy is the people's champion. Unfortunately the Lords of the Manor are 100% in control and do all they can to stifle truth and freedom. Folks we are all losing our freedoms a nano bit at a time. There is no pain only shame. 

[joeyg]

1 minute ago, pookiki said:

No doubt that Andy is brave in fighting this case. The same can be said of the publishers of Phuket Wan when they merely republished allegations against the Thai Navy concerning the trafficking of Rohingya boat people.

 

Hindsight it always 20/20.  There were better ways to release this information and/or to package it. Finnwatch should have taken the lead in releasing this report.  One need only look as to the way reports are released and published by HRW or Amnesty International or even the ILO. Usually reports are not attributed to a specific individual. One must also look at the way in which allegations are framed.  Often. allegations of human rights abuses are attributed to an 'industry' or an 'government organization' as opposed to a specific individual.

 

Finnwatch had the primary responsibility to assess Thailand's legal environment on defamation when the report was released. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.  In saying this, I am not condoning the restrictions on freedom of expression that exist in Thailand. Nonetheless, the restrictions are the reality in which we live.

Well said.  One needs to "pick one's battles"  Once the battle field is chosen Field Position, timing and strategy are essential for ultimate victory.  "Loose Canons" usually miss their targets.

[soalbundy]

14 minutes ago, DiscoDan said:

Yes for example if there was child Labour and he fitted up one of the workers with a hidden camera and managed to get footage of it, that would be hard for the judges to ignore.

 

 

except that publishing it would still be defamation

[dick dasterdly]

21 minutes ago, joeyg said:

Well said.  One needs to "pick one's battles"  Once the battle field is chosen Field Position, timing and strategy are essential for ultimate victory.  "Loose Canons" usually miss their targets.

Unfortunately, documentaries and reports nearly always result in everyone thinking 'how terrible' - but nothing changing....

 

With a bit of luck, the backlash of this case will result in something changing.  I doubt it, but we live in hope!

[joeyg]

3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Unfortunately, documentaries and reports nearly always result in everyone thinking 'how terrible' - but nothing changing....

 

With a bit of luck, the backlash of this case will result in something changing.  I doubt it, but we live in hope!

Things are changing and will continue to change, for the worse.  I hang on to Buddha's and Quan Yin's teachings as best I can, as thing appear to go to "hell in a hand basket."

 

[dick dasterdly]

It will be interesting to see if/how the Brit. Embassy get involved.

[joeyg]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

It will be interesting to see if/how the Brit. Embassy get involved.

My money is on they won't. Technically embassies state they will not intervene in criminal matters.  There are exceptions.

 

[anon7867763]

1 hour ago, DiscoDan said:

 

If someone makes claims about your company that makes you lose money or possibly lose all your customers  don't you think you should have a right to take them to court?

 

 If Andy Hall had hard evidence then he would of been found not guilty.

Yes but a civil court, not a criminal court.

[Khun Han]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

It will be interesting to see if/how the Brit. Embassy get involved.

 

Asking a few polite questions will be the extent of any involvement. They're just a consular services office with bells and whistles.

[Artisi]

2 hours ago, PatOngo said:

The truth comes at a price in a place where truth has low relevance.

I think you mean guilty comes at a price to suit the situation, a non Thai has bugger-all chance of beating a large corporation even if they are guilty.  Of course it would have nothing to do with money, now would it?

[joeyg]

2 minutes ago, johnsnapo said:

Yes but a civil court, not a criminal court.

Yes but their, country, their courts, their rules, their mob.  Know the terrain and enemy capabilities.  Adjust logistics.