British migrant rights defender Andy Hall found guilty in a shock ruling by Bangkok court

[Basil B]

In a country that can unjustly convict two Burmese to protect one of it's own Mafia family's member, no I am not surprised at the verdict, just surprised at the leniency, obviously hoping he will leave the country.

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed.  

[ianf]

3 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

Great news, he could not back up his claims with evidence in court and that's why he lost simple.

Not his claims alone. A product of research. Why is this great news? I guess you support exploitation and the treatment of others in a hideous way. Shame on you. Go back to the right wing where you belong. Andy is a 100% defender of the human faith and all that stands for decency and common justice. You clearly don't like that.

[grumbleweed]

This verdict is gonna bring a hell of a lot more attention on Thailand then a not guilty verdict would have

Thailand; where the foot is never out of the cross hairs 

[F4UCorsair]

I'm often surprised by the "do gooders" in condemning a developing country for alleged human rights violations.

I don't agree with any such violations, however it wasn't so long ago that our own countries were in a similar situation.

HR violations still occur in many industries in Australia, and employers are regularly dragged through the courts to answer charges.

Criticize your own countries' violations first, and let Thailand make its way.

Edited September 20, 2016 by F4UCorsair
addition

[Basil B]

Quote

Supporting the work of Finnwatch are a number of Finnish development and environmental organisations and trade unions.

http://www.finnwatch.org/en/about-us

 

Hope those organisations and unions can put pressure on the Government of Finland to intervene. 

[joeyg]

1 minute ago, ianf said:

Not his claims alone. A product of research. Why is this great news? I guess you support exploitation and the treatment of others in a hideous way. Shame on you. Go back to the right wing where you belong. Andy is a 100% defender of the human faith and all that stands for decency and common justice. You clearly don't like that.

however he could have done what he did with better logistics.  "Discretion is the greater part of valor."

[Khun Han]

7 minutes ago, joeyg said:

Yes but their, country, their courts, their rules, their mob.  Know the terrain and enemy capabilities.  Adjust logistics.

 

Quite a few people actually had hopes that the current mob might be a breath of fresh air (not me). Andy's involvement in legal cases goes back to near the start of the current regime. It's become apparent just how corrupt and ruthless things have become. Like you say, long distance sniping is now the correct warfare. But Andy was already in deep, and is too brave a man to have done a runner. Though I expect all the advice he's getting is along those lines. And who could blame him? He can't fight a mafia that's running an entire country.

[F4UCorsair]

10 minutes ago, Basil B said:

In a country that can unjustly convict two Burmese to protect one of it's own Mafia family's member, no I am not surprised at the verdict, just surprised at the leniency, obviously hoping he will leave the country.

 

You make the claim.....you produce the evidence.

[joeyg]

2 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Quite a few people actually had hopes that the current mob might be a breath of fresh air (not me). Andy's involvement in legal cases goes back to near the start of the current regime. It's become apparent just how corrupt and ruthless things have become. Like you say, long distance sniping is now the correct warfare. But Andy was already in deep, and is too brave a man to have done a runner. Though I expect all the advice he's getting is along those lines. And who could blame him? He can't fight a mafia that's running an entire country.

Agreed.  And the International Globalist banking Cartel is running them all...

Edited September 20, 2016 by joeyg

[cms22]

This is the result of having an "administration" in this country that does not want the people to have rights. This is the result of having an "administration" in this country that is only interested to protect certain sections of society. I remember a couple of years ago so many right-wing TV members spouting on about how bad Thaksin is and how much better the army government will be. Where are they now, I ask.

[Basil B]

Would like to see an emergency debate at the UN on Thailand's human rights while "You Know Who" is over there???

Edited September 20, 2016 by Basil B

[joeyg]

6 minutes ago, grumbleweed said:

This verdict is gonna bring a hell of a lot more attention on Thailand then a not guilty verdict would have

Thailand; where the foot is never out of the cross hairs 

I doubt it.  The world is exploding.  This case is a minor "blip" on the radar screen compared to everything that is going on...

[joeyg]

1 minute ago, Basil B said:

Wonder if there can be an emergency debate at the UN on Thailand's human rights while "You Know Who" is in attendance???

My money is on, "Ain't happenin'"

 

[GarryP]

2 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Quite a few people actually had hopes that the current mob might be a breath of fresh air (not me). Andy's involvement in legal cases goes back to near the start of the current regime. It's become apparent just how corrupt and ruthless things have become. Like you say, long distance sniping is now the correct warfare. But Andy was already in deep, and is too brave a man to have done a runner. Though I expect all the advice he's getting is along those lines. And who could blame him? He can't fight a mafia that's running an entire country.

I don't believe you can blame the current regime. While the family behind the company in question may not have a representative in parliament at the moment, they are quite influential and will have gone out of their way to make sure the right strings were pulled, debts paid in kind, and palms crossed. I don't think money would be much of an object. It is coming out with a clean mug after all that mud was made to stick that is the main reason for pursuing this case now.  "Face"

[dick dasterdly]

9 minutes ago, grumbleweed said:

This verdict is gonna bring a hell of a lot more attention on Thailand then a not guilty verdict would have

Thailand; where the foot is never out of the cross hairs 

Exactly.

 

I mentioned this a while ago " With a bit of luck, the backlash of this case will result in something changing.  I doubt it, but we live in hope! "

[mike1967]

3 hours ago, canopus1969 said:

Again Thailand is on center stage worldwide - and made themselves look a total bunch of pr*cks

 

This really doesn't help me renew my faith in Thailand. In the last 6 years I've gone from spending 9 months of every year in Thailand down to just 3 months. Is it just me or is it a case of the more you see and understand about Thailand the more frustrating it gets? I was originally granted a type "o" visa allowing for me to stay for up to 15 months with the 90 day visa run. Now I'm only allowed a single entry visa for 60 days with a 30 day extension. I was 42 on my first visa and now I'm 48. 6 years of contributing decent money to their economy. Why do I feel I'm being penalised?

[DM07]

1 hour ago, DiscoDan said:

Yes for example if there was child Labour and he fitted up one of the workers with a hidden camera and managed to get footage of it, that would be hard for the judges to ignore.

 

 

[pookiki]

There are many Thais living in exile because they knew it was a better option that standing trial as a defendant in cases concerning criminal defamation or allegations of LM.  Andy was lucky in that the first case against him was dismissed because of a technicality.

 

I admire the work that Andy does in defending migrant workers.  However, it defies reality to think that he will get a fair shake in Thai courts.

 

In fighting the current cases, is Andy bringing more attention to himself or to the plight of the migrant workers for whom he fights?

[DM07]

29 minutes ago, joeyg said:

Yes but their, country, their courts, their rules, their mob.  Know the terrain and enemy capabilities.  Adjust logistics.

With that "logic" "adjusted" no one would ever stand up to human rights abuse and such!

[chrisinth]

While i feel sorry for Andy, this is one of those cases that has the potential to come back and bite the Thai justice system in the rear. Hopefully the response by Finnwatch (once Andy is safely out of the country) with the media shall be aggressive and unrelenting.

 

Bigger governments than that of Thailand have changed policies (or ensured that current policies are upheld) through shame.

 

And shameful they should be.

[dick dasterdly]

IIRC the police are still holding him in custody?

 

If this is the case it seems a bad decision on many levels as 1) he's been given a suspended sentence and 2) far better if he leaves the country rather than continuing the bad publicity in Thailand?  Easier to ignore if he's abroad?

[joeyg]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

Exactly.

 

I mentioned this a while ago " With a bit of luck, the backlash of this case will result in something changing.  I doubt it, but we live in hope! "

Like I said, IMHO, this case is small potatoes.  A "non- event."  What about the fishing industry ongoing scandel, factory scandels in Samut Sakorn, etc etc.  No body cares really.  The business of the "Champion of Freedom" the USA my home is expanding Global Warfare on multiple fronts.  Thailand gets plenty of arms and other equipment from "big brother."  Don't bite the hand that feeds you...

 

4 minutes ago, mike1967 said:

 

This really doesn't help me renew my faith in Thailand. In the last 6 years I've gone from spending 9 months of every year in Thailand down to just 3 months. Is it just me or is it a case of the more you see and understand about Thailand the more frustrating it gets? I was originally granted a type "o" visa allowing for me to stay for up to 15 months with the 90 day visa run. Now I'm only allowed a single entry visa for 60 days with a 30 day extension. I was 42 on my first visa and now I'm 48. 6 years of contributing decent money to their economy. Why do I feel I'm being penalised?

I'm retired here and loving it.  Living in Thailand has renewed my faith in God.

[Basil B]

1 hour ago, DiscoDan said:

Yes for example if there was child Labour and he fitted up one of the workers with a hidden camera and managed to get footage of it, that would be hard for the judges to ignore.

 

 

 

Pull the other one... TiT

 

If you had closely followed the trial of the B2 you would have seen how credible evidence was ignored and flawed evidence accepted.

[DM07]

18 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

I'm often surprised by the "do gooders" in condemning a developing country for alleged human rights violations.

I don't agree with any such violations, however it wasn't so long ago that our own countries were in a similar situation.

HR violations still occur in many industries in Australia, and employers are regularly dragged through the courts to answer charges.

Criticize your own countries' violations first, and let Thailand make its way.

Sooooo...not too long ago, Europe and the US were burning witches!

If that happened here, would you step back and say "let Thailand make it's way"?

Oh...of course you would, because you are Thai'er than Thai...that's why they all love you!

 

[joeyg]

3 minutes ago, pookiki said:

There are many Thais living in exile because they knew it was a better option that standing trial as a defendant in cases concerning criminal defamation or allegations of LM.  Andy was lucky in that the first case against him was dismissed because of a technicality.

 

I admire the work that Andy does in defending migrant workers.  However, it defies reality to think that he will get a fair shake in Thai courts.

 

In fighting the current cases, is Andy bringing more attention to himself or to the plight of the migrant workers for whom he fights?

Anyone that attempts to defend those who can not defend themselves is a hero.  However do you jump in the water to save a drowning child that is being eaten by a school of sharks?

 

[Hawk]

3 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

Great news, he could not back up his claims with evidence in court and that's why he lost simple.

 

Enough evidence but the court was told to find him guilty because the government are trying their best to convince the world that slavery etc has/will be soon eradicated which is simply not true.

 

"No foreigner should think they have power above Thai sovereignty", this statement made by the head of the company says it exactly. Foreigners cannot win no matter how much evidence they have, Thais must and will win always.

[dick dasterdly]

2 minutes ago, chrisinth said:

While i feel sorry for Andy, this is one of those cases that has the potential to come back and bite the Thai justice system in the rear. Hopefully the response by Finnwatch (once Andy is safely out of the country) with the media shall be aggressive and unrelenting.

 

Bigger governments than that of Thailand have changed policies (or ensured that current policies are upheld) through shame.

 

And shameful they should be.

Good point that probably explains (IIRC) why he is still in custody, despite being given a suspended sentence.

[joeyg]

2 minutes ago, Hawk said:

 

Enough evidence but the court was told to find him guilty because the government are trying their best to convince the world that slavery etc has/will be soon eradicated which is simply not true.

 

"No foreigner should think they have power above Thai sovereignty", this statement made by the head of the company says it exactly. Foreigners cannot win no matter how much evidence they have, Thais must and will win always.

You are correct.  Love it or leave it...

[DM07]

7 minutes ago, Basil B said:

 

Pull the other one... TiT

 

If you had closely followed the trial of the B2 you would have seen how credible evidence was ignored and flawed evidence accepted.

Oh he has! He thinks the B2 are guilty as sin itself!

Edited September 20, 2016 by DM07