I really like Thailand!

[kannot]

2 hours ago, SoiBiker said:

 

Nope. I just watched the video closely, rather than letting outrage guide me to a mistaken assumption. Try it and you'll see.

Then youd  have to judge if the Thai response was " appropriate"...............do you think their response was appropriate?

[Berkshire]

21 minutes ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

I lived in the UK for 62 years and was happy doing so.  I moved to Thailand 13 years ago and my avatar correctly explains my feelings about living here, but that does not mean that I cannot criticise some of the things that go on here, just as I did back in England. It is called freedom of speech and is in no way an indication of total dissatisfaction with the country.  It seems to me that the out and out "Thai lovers" on here support the Junta's view that no criticism is allowed.  If more Thais were to offer an informed and critical opinion  (assuming they are allowed to) on important subjects like road deaths, safety standards, education, democracy, policing etc, etc, things might eventually change for the better. The "mai pen rai" attitude, although as a poster above said can be very appealing and attractive as a way of life, it does have its drawbacks as far as progress is concerned.  Let me apologize in advance if any posters construe this post as a criticism of Thailand or its citizens.

 

I agree with you in many respects...except that many of the Thai-bashers aren't about fair or constructive criticism.  They're mostly about hating on the Thais.   But you're right, there's that freedom of speech thing.  The odd thing is that people who take advantage of this freedom have a real problem with others expressing the same.  Which is to say, you're certainly entitled to criticize to your hearts content.  But if someone disagrees or questions your motives, isn't that also freedom of speech?

[JAFO]

24 minutes ago, amykat said:

 

JAFA, I think you didn't understand that I was disputing the veracity of your statement about Americans "screaming, demanding refunds, not leaving tips, etc, etc, " because the restaurant simply got overly busy.  And I don't buy your explanation that folks in the SF Bay area "don't know how to behave" and what you have written above is laughable.  Do you really think these people need to come to SE Asia for lessons in dining etiquette?  As everyone knows that is the capital to learn such things?  I was thinking of taking Western people on tours of India and China for lessons also ...do you think that would be a good business plan??

 

And I think what people notice in Thailand is how deferential people are ...and we call that, nice and polite.

 

I understood exactly what you posted.  I can't count the times I have witnessed outbursts in restaurants or stores about service ranging from high end places to grocery stores. It's common theme. People in the US, especially Californians, have very high expectations for service and products. In fact they demand it without exception.  In their defense rightfully so being what some pay for services.

 

And you missed my point. I did not say SE Asia, I said the world.  I don't care specifically about Thailand.  People become products of their environment. Simple fact.  They behave the way they do because it's what they know and see others do. Becoming worldly can bring a different perspective on things and with that find a balance.

 

 

[joeyg]

Just now, Berkshire said:

 

I agree with you in many respects...except that many of the Thai-bashers aren't about fair or constructive criticism.  They're mostly about hating on the Thais.   But you're right, there's that freedom of speech thing.  The odd thing is that people who take advantage of this freedom have a real problem with others expressing the same.  Which is to say, you're certainly entitled to criticize to your hearts content.  But if someone disagrees or questions your motives, isn't that also freedom of speech?

I agree, mostly.  Were the water becomes "muddy" is when malice intent and well just plain old mockery is factored in.  The reality is Thailand's corruption/dysfunction is paled by what's going on in America my former home.  What to speak of the "melt down" of Europe.  Surely people can see this can't they?

 

 

[ddavidovsky]

I reckon a lot of people got here thinking that Thailand was a democracy and full of genuinely happy people. Gradually they realise the extent to which it has never been a democracy and that the innocence of the people is largely due to a sinister kind of social engineering. Gradually they come to realise the restrictions on their liberty and their vulnerability in the face of arbitrary and changeable rules and regulations (such as visa-related). Basically, they find that the political situation takes them out of their comfort zone.

 

And then there are those who accept all that and just put up with it, because there are lots of lovely people around.

[AlQaholic]

Ok all you guys, show me a link to any "bashing" on TV that is purely just bashing for it's own sake and does not have a reason.

[joeyg]

3 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

I reckon a lot of people got here thinking that Thailand was a democracy and full of genuinely happy people. Gradually they realise the extent to which it has never been a democracy and that the innocence of the people is largely due to a sinister kind of social engineering. Gradually they come to realise the restrictions on their liberty and their vulnerability in the face of arbitrary and changeable rules and regulations (such as visa-related). Basically, they find that the political situation takes them out of their comfort zone.

 

And then there are those who accept all that and just put up with it, because there are lots of lovely people around.

Then there is this... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/17/oligarchy-broken-our-democracy-must-be-dislodged-election-2016

 

[joeyg]

2 minutes ago, AlQaholic said:

Ok all you guys, show me a link to any "bashing" on TV that is purely just bashing for it's own sake and does not have a reason.

Do your own research.  Too many examples it would take weeks.

[AlQaholic]

Just now, joeyg said:

Do your own research.  Too many examples it would take weeks.

just show me one.....

[Berkshire]

9 minutes ago, AlQaholic said:

Ok all you guys, show me a link to any "bashing" on TV that is purely just bashing for it's own sake and does not have a reason.

 

Geez man, just go to the Thailand News section to find some mindless bashing.  If you can't find any, perhaps you are one of them. 

[ddavidovsky]

8 minutes ago, joeyg said:

Then there is this... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/17/oligarchy-broken-our-democracy-must-be-dislodged-election-2016

 

 

Sure, but in Thailand there are no checks and balances at all. Not even freedom of speech. That in itself is quite threatening, even for those who came here just to relax.

[rijb]

16 hours ago, JAFO said:

I'm with the OP.  I too really like Thailand. I could have moved and lived anywhere. In fact I could have easily just stayed in the US. I traveled around and just like the place.

 

I work with Thai folks all day long. Nicest folk. Easy to get on with. I see more smiles in a day here then I would see in the US in damn near a month. One thing clear is work isn't everything to Thai's. They seem to balance it very well. While many criticize the "Mai Pen Rai" attitude, for me its refreshing. They do not get their underwear all cranked up in their butt over silly things versus where I just moved from. Point in case, Wife and I were at a restaurant the other night. Place had a rush of customers and 2 poor waitresses were swamped. In the US I guarantee you people would have been screaming, demanding to talk to the manager, wanting their money back and so on and so on. They would have not even left a tip even though the waitress had nothing to do with the surge of customers. Here folks understood, were patient, carried on with the discussions, waited and got their food. Same with us. Our waitress apologized and it was OK. No worries.  We left her a tip.

 

 

 

Why do people who 'really like Thailand' fixate on all the bad things about where they came from?  

 

Wouldn't it be less stressful to just enjoy your move.  And stop trying to convince yourself/others that it was the right thing to do?

[ChristianBlessing]

Because they don't realize how they behave as the majority have never left to see how other people and cultures are.

 

Until you leave and go see the world their views are lopsided.  

 

Funny. I know quite a few people that have traveled and visited Thailand and have come back and go on and on about how nice and polite the people are.

 

 

I'm with rogeroc. In few circumstances have I seen fellow Americans act as you describe. Certainly no more so than in other countries or cultures I've lived in. Thailand is fabulous for many reasons and you've every reason to enjoy it; it hardly seems necessary to criticize other places to make the point.

[amykat]

23 minutes ago, JAFO said:

 

I understood exactly what you posted.  I can't count the times I have witnessed outbursts in restaurants or stores about service ranging from high end places to grocery stores. It's common theme. People in the US, especially Californians, have very high expectations for service and products. In fact they demand it without exception.  In their defense rightfully so being what some pay for services.

 

And you missed my point. I did not say SE Asia, I said the world.  I don't care specifically about Thailand.  People become products of their environment. Simple fact.  They behave the way they do because it's what they know and see others do. Becoming worldly can bring a different perspective on things and with that find a balance.

 

 

 

JAFO, you often make posts that I agree with. But sometimes in your zeal to love Thailand, you seem to throw the US under the bus.  I don't mind whatever political views you have that I might disagree with, obviously we all have that right.  This post sounds more reasonable. The other post made all Americans looks quite foolish and ridiculous and was not a true picture of reality.   Certainly not for the area you or I are from.  People are generally very friendly, kind, relaxed, well-off, well-traveled, educated, etc.  Oh, and have good manners!!  From what you have described about yourself I think we have come from similar backgrounds so I think I can't be too off about this.

[Altalake]

Good on yer - nowhere is perfect but T'land is our fave place in SE Asia by far. Nice food, nice people, nice weather and easy travel.

 

If you don't like it, go elsewhere! No one forces you to stay here!

[maximillian]

I generally like Thailand in spite of a few things that I dislike.

Noise, air pollution, littering, behaviour in traffic, selfishness, absence of responsibility and a few more I will not mention 'coz it might hurt the powers.

Know Thailand since more than 40 years, live here since 7 years without visiting my home country.

Yes, i am happy here, after all.

[F4UCorsair]

15 hours ago, impulse said:

I like Thailand fine.  One of the nicer places in the world that God put oil and gas.

 

But 5 minutes after my contract is over, I'm going to be buying my ticket.  (It'll take about a week to give everything away and pack the stuff I want to keep)  The heat, the humidity, the incessant mold and mildew- working here 5 years has aged me 20.  I'm hoping I can get some of that back when I get to a sanitary location with a dry climate.

 

Glad to hear the OP's happy.  But it isn't for everyone.

 

BTW, just to start the tongues wagging, China was healthier for me.  Yeah.  China. 10 years.

 

 

I'm with you on the heat thing impulse.

 

I lived 20+ years in the tropics in Australia, and another five in SE Asia, 30+ degrees most days, 90%+ humidity for months on end, mould, mildew, sticky, lacking energy.  I just couldn't do it any longer.

 

One of my favorite places is Bali, but not down on the coast, 5000+ feet elevation, where the temperature seldom reaches 23 degrees, and whilst humidity is often high, it's not an issue until the temperature reaches around, when it starts to become oppressive.

Edited September 22, 2016 by F4UCorsair
addition

[Laza 45]

I like Thailand too... or should I say... I like my experience of Thailand... everyone's experience is different.  I have a great family and friends and can live well on my pension.  I enjoy learning about the culture and a little of the Thai language. The food is great.. the beer ok as long as it is very cold.. I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.   Is this just good luck.. or is it true that you create your own happiness?

[Krataiboy]

14 hours ago, NickJ said:

I just wish that the people who live here and hate it...could just go home. And be banned for life being able to post about there mistakes. 

 

A love affair with Thailand is much like any other and a process of gradual disenchantment. But hold on to your dream as long as you can, savouring the magical moments and storing them in your memory. That way you will not end up hating the place you once adored, as so many ThaiVisa grumpy old men seem to do.

 

Illusion, if Voltaire is to be believed, is the first of all pleasures?

[Bangkok Barry]

 

Personally I would opt for Spain if I had the opportunity. Far better quality food and often cheaper than in Thailand (I'm talking western food. If you want to go totally like the locals in Thailand then that's different but the quality of much of the food though cheap is dreadful). Wine and beer is far, far cheaper too and there is an infinitely greater choice. Everything is clean, there is the rule of law which is ALWAYS enforced no matter who you are. There is none of the 'Me First' attitude that so many Thais have (try crossing the road - where I come from the first or at the very least the second car will stop, because people are polite to each other).

But whatever floats your boat. If sanuk is a top priority......

[joeyg]

43 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

 

 

I'm with you on the heat thing impulse.

 

I lived 20+ years in the tropics in Australia, and another five in SE Asia, 30+ degrees most days, 90%+ humidity for months on end, mould, mildew, sticky, lacking energy.  I just couldn't do it any longer.

 

One of my favorite places is Bali, but not down on the coast, 5000+ feet elevation, where the temperature seldom reaches 23 degrees, and whilst humidity is often high, it's not an issue until the temperature reaches around, when it starts to become oppressive.

Wanted to chime in on the heat and humidity.  Even though I've been coming here since 1971 and traveling in Tropical climates all this time, last year , my first year living here in Samut Prakon well I thought I would melt, literally.

 

Fortunately my "internal thermostat" broke or some how I acclimated.  Last year was the hottest on record. This year is projected to be even hotter.  Even lately here in and around Pattaya I've been out with Farang friends who said they needed to get in aircon because they weren't feeling well.  Many Thais complaining also.

 

Until someone else mentions it, mostly I haven't thought about how h & h it is.

 

Point is, fortunately, I rarely notice it or have made some adjustment in my mind.  I think being on a mostly fruit and raw food diet makes a big difference.  When I eat heavier or cooked foods or occasionally drink too much I find I'm much more sensitive to the heat and humidity.

 

Bali sounds like a nice place to visit.  Definitely.

[joeyg]

42 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

 

A love affair with Thailand is much like any other and a process of gradual disenchantment. But hold on to your dream as long as you can, savouring the magical moments and storing them in your memory. That way you will not end up hating the place you once adored, as so many ThaiVisa grumpy old men seem to do.

 

Illusion, if Voltaire is to be believed, is the first of all pleasures?

And I don't love it but I do really like it... 

[geriatrickid]

23 hours ago, joeyg said:

Indeed.  I can afford to live anywhere I want.  I choose Thailand for many reasons.  Going to Immigration every 90 days is a pleasure.  I look forward to chat with some of the gals I've gotten to know there as they "stamp" me in.  I say hello and chat with everyone, who can communicate, including cops on the street.

 

I like people.  I especially like Thai people. And believe me I've traveled extensively.  It's all about sanuke!  If it ain't sanuke it ain't happinin'.  For me anyway.

 

@ Ar Price is not the issue. Why bring that up? I just said for me I like it and am glad to be here.

 

You like living in Thailand. Okay. Good for you.  Outside of knowing what your financial status is, your use of the   descriptive phrase "I can live anywhere I want"  is rather useless and adds nothing. There are people who live in a  cardboard box  under a bridge in the USA and there are  wanderers in the UK who live out of their caravans. So what?  It's all relative and it's about quality of life. Some people are happy in a little room and sleeping on  polyester blend sheets that they might wash once a week. They are delighted to eat disgusting greasy noodles and brag about the  40 baht cost.   There are some very, very wealthy people who have vacation homes in Thailand. This doesn't mean anything either. 

 

I find it odd that some people will use this expression but the reality is that they have relatively little.  Where do these people get these  hundreds of millions of baht? I can't believe that so many retired  truck drivers,  handymen, factory workers, IT workers etc. were being paid in excess of 3 million baht per annum and have liquid savings in excess of 30 million baht.  

 

My impression is that there are a lot of simpletons walking about. Thailand works for them because they have never really experienced a  high quality life. Fine. Good for them if they can get in a few years before they die. Let them be happy.   I won't begrudge anyone a chance at happiness.  However, I don't need to be told that if I disagree, I should leave or be labeled a malcontent.  My concerns are legitimate and  based upon reality.

 

It's wonderful that you like Thai people. Can you even communicate with them and does your interaction with them extend beyond the usual service industry personnel? I would call you delusional if you embrace the locals willy nilly and you will pay for it. Spare  me the sanook lecture. It brings to mind these  white people who  dress up as monks and walk around with their condescending smiles. they read a book and  spent some time at some sketchy wat and  transform into holy men. I have zero patience when those who worship before idols come preach to me in between their for profit  activities of retailing   magical amulets and potions or exploiting the fears of the uneducated.

 

Who refers to  female immigration officers as "gals"? This is not 1955 Tupelo, Mississippi.  So they go easy on you at immigration. Ok. They don't bother me either. What's your point? Has it occurred to you that one of the reasons why Thailand is a  hub of human trafficking and was the transit point for some heavy duty  terrorists because of the lax attitudes to border security?

 

I get it. You do not value habeas corpus nor judicial due process. Nor do you believe in basic human rights  such as the right to  discuss and contest constitutional changes. Fine. Some of us do.

[SoiBiker]

Some people would find something to complain about in heaven. 

[rijb]

2 minutes ago, SoiBiker said:

Some people would find something to complain about in heaven. 

 

They would say Thailand is better.  

[The manic]

The OP has raised a good point.

I think you will find a variety of different reasons for the Thai bashers. Some are just failures, just emotionally inadequate people- others are very provincial and have never done much travelling like me and the original OP.- they have no sense of adventure nor have 'roughed it' on the freak trail in the old days so they have nothing to compare Thailand to but their dull small town in Australia or mid west USA - some are spoilt expats on a good package but do not want to be here but there company has sent them here - other moaners are western women who are not important here and resent it - others have never been to Thailand but have read negatives things about it - other are guys who fell foul of a girl have their age, half their education but twice as bright - others are just out and out racists- One thing they have in common is that they are all bores. 

[SoiBiker]

If they're not bashing the Thais, they're bashing the western women...

 

I know loads of western women here. They're generally a lot happier than the western men on this forum. 

[just bob]

This fall will be my 27th trip to SE Asia.  This thread reminded me of two things;

 

First - Saving face and not causing others to lose it.  Several years back on my return to the US, I finally get to walk up to the passport inspector after waiting a good half hour in line.  As I'm approaching the desk I flip my passport onto the counter where it rotates 180 degrees and comes to a stop inches from the inspectors edge of the counter.  No big deal if you're halfway coordinated.  The inspector looks at me with a scowl and says "Do you always treat your American passport with such disrespect"?  Well <deleted> you sir, I think.  Nowhere in Asia would a decent person say such a thing to you out of the blue because they would not want to cause you to lose face.  Thais just have some damn good manners, on the whole.

 

Second - To my mind there is an underlying basic difference between "Western" and SE Asian cultures that has far reaching and profound influence.  Judaeo Christian cultures are founded on the religious principal of forgiveness.  To illustrate I'll retell a story I heard from a rabbi.  He said when he was young, he preyed incessantly for a bicycle, but alas, he never got one.  So he then stole one and preyed for forgiveness.  SE Asian cultures are primarily based on the Buddhist principal of Karma.  A Thai may lie or try to steal from you, but unless they're twisted on yabba (like any druggie in the world) they probably aren't going to harm you.

 

I'll take Karma, thank you.

 

I love Thailand and the people.  They are generally kind, open and happy and possess a far reaching societal beauty that I think underpins the smiles.  It can be mistaken for simple mindedness when in fact it really comes from a contentment the rest of the world should envy.

 

Then there is the bad air......

[The manic]

7 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

 

You like living in Thailand. Okay. Good for you.  Outside of knowing what your financial status is, your use of the   descriptive phrase "I can live anywhere I want"  is rather useless and adds nothing. There are people who live in a  cardboard box  under a bridge in the USA and there are  wanderers in the UK who live out of their caravans. So what?  It's all relative and it's about quality of life. Some people are happy in a little room and sleeping on  polyester blend sheets that they might wash once a week. They are delighted to eat disgusting greasy noodles and brag about the  40 baht cost.   There are some very, very wealthy people who have vacation homes in Thailand. This doesn't mean anything either. 

 

I find it odd that some people will use this expression but the reality is that they have relatively little.  Where do these people get these  hundreds of millions of baht? I can't believe that so many retired  truck drivers,  handymen, factory workers, IT workers etc. were being paid in excess of 3 million baht per annum and have liquid savings in excess of 30 million baht.  

 

My impression is that there are a lot of simpletons walking about. Thailand works for them because they have never really experienced a  high quality life. Fine. Good for them if they can get in a few years before they die. Let them be happy.   I won't begrudge anyone a chance at happiness.  However, I don't need to be told that if I disagree, I should leave or be labeled a malcontent.  My concerns are legitimate and  based upon reality.

 

It's wonderful that you like Thai people. Can you even communicate with them and does your interaction with them extend beyond the usual service industry personnel? I would call you delusional if you embrace the locals willy nilly and you will pay for it. Spare  me the sanook lecture. It brings to mind these  white people who  dress up as monks and walk around with their condescending smiles. they read a book and  spent some time at some sketchy wat and  transform into holy men. I have zero patience when those who worship before idols come preach to me in between their for profit  activities of retailing   magical amulets and potions or exploiting the fears of the uneducated.

 

Who refers to  female immigration officers as "gals"? This is not 1955 Tupelo, Mississippi.  So they go easy on you at immigration. Ok. They don't bother me either. What's your point? Has it occurred to you that one of the reasons why Thailand is a  hub of human trafficking and was the transit point for some heavy duty  terrorists because of the lax attitudes to border security?

 

I get it. You do not value habeas corpus nor judicial due process. Nor do you believe in basic human rights  such as the right to  discuss and contest constitutional changes. Fine. Some of us do.

If you value human rights so much why are you here? Why write so extensively in disagreement just to piss on someones parade? Anyway 'Yuman Rites' are not always concomitant with freedom. The USA - UK - Europe etc have these rights but people have a rotten time because of strict police - high crime - violence - absurd anti car laws that exhort money from people - dreadful, incompetent, over paid, under worked police - effectively just as uncountable as other third world police forces. The application of the drug laws is a disgrace - no human rights there!  Whats wrong with 'Gals'? Who made you PC monitor? - this forum is not a committee meeting of the SWP or a feminists group!  Lighten up - Sanuk does not bring to mind people dressed as monks!  If it does for you then you are the deluded one.  So you have Zero tolerance for people who worship idols!?  Well aren't you the high minded one!? Christmas must be fun at your place! This is not about right or wrong but about positive and negative views. You have negatives views that are tedious and cliched. Negativity is a bore and basically anti life . The OP has views that are pro life and positive- he is to be applauded.

[The manic]

10 hours ago, joeyg said:

Yes.  Any other questions?

 

 I have been to Japan several times.  Only liked Kyoto really.  I only made it as far as Medical School.  Board certified in Internal Medicine.  Again why discuss your guided tours in Japan in a thread on why I like Thailand and if I could afford to live there?

 

it makes no sense.  i said I could live anywhere I liked.  Is that so incredulous? Really?

 

You tell him!  The problem with this forum and this poster is like many bores here - he projects his own mediocrity on to us- thinking his life experiences are somehow more relevant than ours - we who enjoy Thailand.  Its sad really.