Corruption continues at Koh Samui

[ParadiseLost]

As a married person, with many years extensions at Samui one would think I would have the rules clear by now, but no:

 

My passport is expiring on Dec14, with my annual extension expiring on Oct04, so I planned to get a 60 day extension until Dec04 and then proceed with the 12 month extension early December. Money was placed in the bank Jul17 in preparation.

 

On Thursday we applied for the 60 day but was refused - reason given I already had one 60 day ext on the (extended) Non-o which expired years ago. They claim that a re-entry permit used had 'extended the visa'.

 

As far as I am aware a 60 day ext may be given for each entry (my last entry May 2016).

 

Then they proposed we do the 1 year ext instead but it would only be granted until pp expiry date Dec14 - so a 74 day extension in place of 60 day - fair enough. Ridiculous but ok...

 

Today we applied for the 12 month, ALL documents were correct but it was declined and my wife was informed we have to pay 5,000 baht by the overweight 'lady' who checks docs on the 1st floor in Samui immigration, the reason given the 400k in the bank is only there 2 1/2 months but it has to be 3 months. But she then told us she can do us a 'favor'... In other words the money 2 months is okay, else how can she 'accommodate' me?

 

The corruption at Koh Samui immigration office continues; so much for the PM cracking down on this: Thailand is corrupt and dirty to the core. It's not only the garbage that stinks here - it is also the smell of corrupt dirty scum, tasked with upkeep of law and order.

 

I thank Buddha we do not have children, and that I never put every last dollar I have into this cesspit because after 10 years I am finally giving up. *** Inflammatory remarks edited out ***. Just look carefully at eyes behind the 'smiles' - evil is there in plain sight.

 

Now I must go, I have 4 days to start a new life...

[Phuket Man]

You should have applied for a new passport months ago then you would not have given the blood suckers an oportunity to rip you off.

Money has to be in the bank for 2 months.

[ParadiseLost]

I should have stated the passport application was lodged 05May, only arrived this week.

 

Hence planning for a 60day ext.

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, ParadiseLost said:

On Thursday we applied for the 60 day but was refused - reason given I already had one 60 day ext on the (extended) Non-o which expired years ago. They claim that a re-entry permit used had 'extended the visa'.

 

As far as I am aware a 60 day ext may be given for each entry (my last entry May 2016).

Your original visa entry, that was extended and kept alive with a re-entry permit, can only be extended once by 60 days so it sounds like they were right. Entry with a re-entry permit doesn't count as a new entry.

[ratcatcher]

2 hours ago, ParadiseLost said:

I should have stated the passport application was lodged 05May, only arrived this week.

 

Hence planning for a 60day ext.

You may well refer to Koh Samui as a cesspit, even though it seems now to be Paradise Lost as far as you are concerned. Many other parts of Thailand are a pleasure to reside in, hence the huge numbers of farangs and others willing to jump backwards through the hoops, occasionally provided by the immigration offices,  in order to remain here.

I wish you luck in finding your next Paradise.

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, elviajero said:

Your original visa entry, that was extended and kept alive with a re-entry permit, can only be extended once by 60 days so it sounds like they were right. Entry with a re-entry permit doesn't count as a new entry.

 

The new info for me, if I am reading the OP correctly, is that the use of a re-entry permit to preserve an annual permission-of-stay "counts as an extension" - thus "using up" the normally-available 60-day extension, which would otherwise be available to those 'married to a Thai', to extend any permission of stay. 

 

Following that logic, if I were to get a Tourist Visa for 60-days, leave the country and return during that period using a re-entry permit to preserve the original 60-days, then go to an Immigration office to apply for a 30-day extension, I would be denied, because my "re-entry permit counted as an extension."

[ParadiseLost]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

 

The new info for me, if I am reading the OP correctly, is that the use of a re-entry permit to preserve an annual permission-of-stay "counts as an extension" - thus "using up" the normally-available 60-day extension, which would otherwise be available to those 'married to a Thai', to extend any permission of stay. 

 

Following that logic, if I were to get a Tourist Visa for 60-days, leave the country and return during that period using a re-entry permit to preserve the original 60-days, then go to an Immigration office to apply for a 30-day extension, I would be denied, because my "re-entry permit counted as an extension."

 

Not correct; what it means is that once you have extended 60 days, you cannot get another 60 day extension; unless you start over with a new visa. I was under the impression that each entry (stamp) entitled a married person to a 60 day extension.

 

An example: I extended a non-o fro 12 mths in 2014, then again in 2015 for another 12 mths, then in 2015 I extended again but only 60 days (later in the year suits me better). In April 2016 I exited and returned on a re-entry permit under the impression from all info gleaned on TV that I was entitled to a 60 day extension. There is no clear definition anywhere of the rule and besides, what difference does it make to them?

 

They act like they are handing out sweets...

 

If one was to enter on a TV,  exit and return as you described on a re-entry permit I believe it would have no affect your right to a 60 day ext. 

 

It is hard to deal with laws purposefully designed to be vague and open to interpretation.

[Fithman]

8 minutes ago, ParadiseLost said:

 

Not correct; what it means is that once you have extended 60 days, you cannot get another 60 day extension; unless you start over with a new visa. I was under the impression that each entry (stamp) entitled a married person to a 60 day extension.

 

An example: I extended a non-o fro 12 mths in 2014, then again in 2015 for another 12 mths, then in 2015 I extended again but only 60 days (later in the year suits me better). In April 2016 I exited and returned on a re-entry permit under the impression from all info gleaned on TV that I was entitled to a 60 day extension. There is no clear definition anywhere of the rule and besides, what difference does it make to them?

 

They act like they are handing out sweets...

 

If one was to enter on a TV,  exit and return as you described on a re-entry permit I believe it would have no affect your right to a 60 day ext. 

 

It is hard to deal with laws purposefully designed to be vague and open to interpretation.

 

I believe you are misunderstanding. You never "extended" a visa, only your permission to stay. Only one 60 day extension is permitted per VISA entry. An extension of stay is not a visa and neither is a re-entry permit. 

 

You were correctly advised by immigration.

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

 

The new info for me, if I am reading the OP correctly, is that the use of a re-entry permit to preserve an annual permission-of-stay "counts as an extension" - thus "using up" the normally-available 60-day extension, which would otherwise be available to those 'married to a Thai', to extend any permission of stay. 

 

Following that logic, if I were to get a Tourist Visa for 60-days, leave the country and return during that period using a re-entry permit to preserve the original 60-days, then go to an Immigration office to apply for a 30-day extension, I would be denied, because my "re-entry permit counted as an extension."

What was meant is that a re-entry permit is a continuation of the extension (permit to stay).

[Maestro]

14 hours ago, ParadiseLost said:

The corruption at Koh Samui immigration office continues; so much for the PM cracking down on this

 

The Prime Minister or any or any other government official or agency cannot "crack down" on an office or an individual official or initiate an investigation unless an alleged incident of corruption is brought to their attention. To whom in the higher echelons of government have you reported your case?

[Ronuk]

How ironical that people want to report and whinge about paying a 'Bung' but are quite happy to do exactly that, in order to get the rules bent when it suits. You really should be careful what you wish for because come the day when immigration do stick ridgedly to the rules, vast amounts of expats will find themselves out of the country.

I sometimes wonder what go's on in the heads of a lot of people.

[muzmurray]

7 hours ago, Fithman said:

 

I believe you are misunderstanding. You never "extended" a visa, only your permission to stay. Only one 60 day extension is permitted per VISA entry. An extension of stay is not a visa and neither is a re-entry permit. 

 

You were correctly advised by immigration.

 

Incorrect, because you can get a 60 day extension of a visa exempt entry too.

[muzmurray]

17 minutes ago, Ronuk said:

How ironical that people want to report and whinge about paying a 'Bung' but are quite happy to do exactly that, in order to get the rules bent when it suits. You really should be careful what you wish for because come the day when immigration do stick ridgedly to the rules, vast amounts of expats will find themselves out of the country.

I sometimes wonder what go's on in the heads of a lot of people.

 

What you have stated is not ironic at all. (You might want to check the meaning of irony).

[Ronuk]

11 minutes ago, muzmurray said:

 

What you have stated is not ironic at all. (You might want to check the meaning of irony).

a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result.

[JackThompson]

8 hours ago, ParadiseLost said:

 

Not correct; what it means is that once you have extended 60 days, you cannot get another 60 day extension; unless you start over with a new visa. I was under the impression that each entry (stamp) entitled a married person to a 60 day extension.

 

An example: I extended a non-o fro 12 mths in 2014, then again in 2015 for another 12 mths, then in 2015 I extended again but only 60 days (later in the year suits me better). In April 2016 I exited and returned on a re-entry permit under the impression from all info gleaned on TV that I was entitled to a 60 day extension. There is no clear definition anywhere of the rule and besides, what difference does it make to them?

 

They act like they are handing out sweets...

 

If one was to enter on a TV,  exit and return as you described on a re-entry permit I believe it would have no affect your right to a 60 day ext. 

 

It is hard to deal with laws purposefully designed to be vague and open to interpretation.

 

Thanks for the clarification - so you can only get one 60-day-extension on a visa-entry, regardless of how many 12-mo extensions you receive, thereafter.  A re-entry permit only preserves an existing permission-of-stay.  It does not re-set anything.  I think the confusion comes from those using Multi-Entry visas, where the visa continues running during use, and each of entry on that visa can be extended once.

 

In terms of the offer for special treatment for a price, that was a generous offer, considering an agent would charge many times more for the same, and considering someone was, essentially, putting their neck on the line to bend the rules.  Such offers going away could prevent others in similar situations from badly needed choices.  Look what has happened in Phuket since people raised a fuss over extra fees.  When those end, one can generally expect harsher consideration of all "by the book" extensions. 

 

The worst outcome is "every dotted i and crossed t" enforcement, which leads to agents and lawyers for everything, and much higher costs for all.  See the West, where "low level corruption" is generally absent, but high-level "legal" corruption costs the end-user 10-times more.  The lawyers and bureaucrat-unions fund political re-election campaigns and/or create a revolving-door to post-political careers - ensuring ever more "legal" regulations which only they can help with.  It's all perfectly "legal" and above-board, but creates a nightmare for the little-guy.

[muzmurray]

4 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

Thanks for the clarification - so you can only get one 60-day-extension on a visa-entry, regardless of how many 12-mo extensions you receive, thereafter.  A re-entry permit only preserves an existing permission-of-stay.  It does not re-set anything.  I think the confusion comes from those using Multi-Entry visas, where the visa continues running during use, and each of entry on that visa can be extended once.

 

In terms of the offer for special treatment for a price, that was a generous offer, considering an agent would charge many times more for the same, and considering someone was, essentially, putting their neck on the line to bend the rules.  Such offers going away could prevent others in similar situations from badly needed choices.  Look what has happened in Phuket since people raised a fuss over extra fees.  When those end, one can generally expect harsher consideration of all "by the book" extensions. 

 

The worst outcome is "every dotted i and crossed t" enforcement, which leads to agents and lawyers for everything, and much higher costs for all.  See the West, where "low level corruption" is generally absent, but high-level "legal" corruption costs the end-user 10-times more.  The lawyers and bureaucrat-unions fund political re-election campaigns and/or create a revolving-door to post-political careers - ensuring ever more "legal" regulations which only they can help with.  It's all perfectly "legal" and above-board, but creates a nightmare for the little-guy.

 

"my wife was informed we have to pay 5,000 baht by the overweight 'lady' who checks docs on the 1st floor in Samui immigration, the reason given the 400k in the bank is only there 2 1/2 months but it has to be 3 months. "

 

Seeing as the money had been seasoned for longer than the law asks for - I don't think paying 5k is a "generous offer".

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, muzmurray said:

 

"my wife was informed we have to pay 5,000 baht by the overweight 'lady' who checks docs on the 1st floor in Samui immigration, the reason given the 400k in the bank is only there 2 1/2 months but it has to be 3 months. "

 

Seeing as the money had been seasoned for longer than the law asks for - I don't think paying 5k is a "generous offer".

 

I thought the purpose of the OP's attempted 60-day extension was to let the money season long enough - 3 months - as required for subsequent 1-year extensions.   My impression was that only the 1st 1-year extension has the shorter 2-month seasoning rule - otherwise, why try for the 60-day extension in the first place?

[muzmurray]

Just now, JackThompson said:

 

I thought the purpose of the OP's attempted 60-day extension was to let the money season long enough - 3 months - as required for subsequent 1-year extensions.   My impression was that only the 1st 1-year extension has the shorter 2-month seasoning rule - otherwise, why try for the 60-day extension in the first place?

 

Marriage extensions are 2 months every time, retirement is 2 months first, then 3 months for each year after.

[ParadiseLost]

9 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

I thought the purpose of the OP's attempted 60-day extension was to let the money season long enough - 3 months - as required for subsequent 1-year extensions.   My impression was that only the 1st 1-year extension has the shorter 2-month seasoning rule - otherwise, why try for the 60-day extension in the first place?

The reason I needed a 60 day extension was owing to the fact my new passport had not arrived and was only expected end October.

 

As for the noob telling me I do not know the difference between a visa and an extension, perhaps find other topics to shoot your mouth off... As is very clear here many people were either not aware of the 60 day extension, or the rules were not clear - myself one of them. After 11 years dealing with this office I can tell when I am being 'fitted up'.

 

For those saying it should just be paid, perhaps in your country you are free to bribe officials but I was not brought up to be criminally intent and I have jumped through all their hoops for a long time; paying a bribe is a crime, as well as accepting one. So go right ahead, if you have no respect for anyone else rights, or no morals to speak of.

 

Every bribe paid encourages the criminals to repeat their actions.

[ParadiseLost]

3 hours ago, Ronuk said:

How ironical that people want to report and whinge about paying a 'Bung' but are quite happy to do exactly that, in order to get the rules bent when it suits. You really should be careful what you wish for because come the day when immigration do stick ridgedly to the rules, vast amounts of expats will find themselves out of the country.

I sometimes wonder what go's on in the heads of a lot of people.

It's all down to morals and upbringing - if you are happy to live in a lawless society (as long as it suits you, mind) then that's your choice, but don't try to make out it is normal.

 

The day you lose your visa, property, money or possessions - because some corrupt 'official' wants it that way - then you will be first to kick up a fuss...

[Fithman]

8 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

The Prime Minister or any or any other government official or agency cannot "crack down" on an office or an individual official or initiate an investigation unless an alleged incident of corruption is brought to their attention. To whom in the higher echelons of government have you reported your case?

 

Did you report this alleged "corruption"? 

 

As  Maestro says nothing can be done if no report has been made ........

[Ronuk]

51 minutes ago, ParadiseLost said:

It's all down to morals and upbringing - if you are happy to live in a lawless society (as long as it suits you, mind) then that's your choice, but don't try to make out it is normal.

 

The day you lose your visa, property, money or possessions - because some corrupt 'official' wants it that way - then you will be first to kick up a fuss...

I think it's time for you to leave Fantasy Island.....Get out before you completely lose your marbles.

[terminatorchiangmai]

Good guys in Bad guys out , i wonder when that's ever going to happen.

[Phuket Man]

54 minutes ago, Ronuk said:

I think it's time for you to leave Fantasy Island.....Get out before you completely lose your marbles.

 

You think it is right to be conned out of 5,000 Baht by a government official when the correct fee is 1,900 Baht?

[Arandora]

5 hours ago, muzmurray said:

 

Incorrect, because you can get a 60 day extension of a visa exempt entry too.

You sure about that? Isn't it 30 days on either a 30 day or 15 day Visa Exempt entry?

[PoorSucker]

13 minutes ago, Arandora said:

You sure about that? Isn't it 30 days on either a 30 day or 15 day Visa Exempt entry?

60 days if you have Thai family.

[Arandora]

I see. Thanks. 

[PoorSucker]

Samui Immigration have always insisted on 90 days in bank for marriage extension we all are aware of it.

 

Did my marriage extension on Wednesday, no tea money was asked for.

[ParadiseLost]

2 hours ago, PoorSucker said:

Samui Immigration have always insisted on 90 days in bank for marriage extension we all are aware of it.

 

Did my marriage extension on Wednesday, no tea money was asked for.

I was under the impression I would get the 60 day ext, so in fact the money was seeded longer than I thought it would be needed. (Jul17-Dec04 = 4 1/2 months)...

 

I was also mistakenly under the impression the birdman was left behind in the old office but it seems his lackies are there to continue.

 

There is no excuse for corruption. If she had said there is an official fee one can pay to solve this I would not hesitate.

 

Its no wonder there are so many new long term faces here, I wonder how many are adding to the problem. The population of expats here has doubled recently and it is mostly guys in their 20s. How are they getting WP and extensions?

 

Good guys in bad guys out? It sounds like I am one of the bad as I cannot accept the new norm which is pay up and don't rock the boat?

[ubonjoe]

4 hours ago, Arandora said:

You sure about that? Isn't it 30 days on either a 30 day or 15 day Visa Exempt entry?

The 60 day extension is based upon marriage or being the parent of a Thai. It is not the same as the 30 day extension.

The 60 day extension can be applied for any type of new entry one time.