Burmese enter their third year in prison for the Koh Tao murders

[metisdead]

Off topic deflection posts have been removed. 

[F4UCorsair]

2 hours ago, Crustyhk said:

When is the Thai government going understand that this sort of blatant injustice scares the hell out of tourists. 

 

 

Any educated traveller will avoid the place but it will still attract the backpackers for the cheap booze and parties. You know, the ones with no money. 

 

Like the young Brits who were murdered, the uneducated ones with no money?

[Crustyhk]

Twisting a partial quote around to suit yourself is one way of doing things I guess. 

You need to add the word "traveller" to either educated or uneducated. As I did. 

 

You seem to suggest I am criticising a travellers intelligence. Not the case at all. 

 

As a traveller to Thailand I read what goes on in Thailand which makes me an educated traveller. Which is why I will never return to Koh Tao. Not reading about Thailand before arriving would make me an uneducated traveller. 

 

At no stage did I mention the murdered Brits so I gather you were just throwing out a little bait for a barney. 

 

Most countries want tourists and the money they bring. I'm unsure of how many countries want tourists travelling on a pittance. 

[yellowboat]

The largest blemish yet on Thai officialdom.  A country that is unjust, unfair and, perhaps one day, unfit for tourism.  

[SOTIRIOS]

....foreigners or minorities here......

 

...not an easy stint.....either side of the bars.....

[jacko45k]

6 hours ago, DoctorG said:

Having the appeal heard by the same trial judge is absurd. Has any judge ever overruled his own verdict?

Quite....

These guys can never be wrong and to openly admit it... well even overwhelming evidence would not sway their self belief.

[atyclb]

Would be hard pressed to say it any better than Bob Dylan did in his song about travesty of justice.  Final verse lyrics snippet

 

In the courtroom of honor, the judge pounded his gavel
To show that all's equal and that the courts are on the level
And that the strings in the books ain't pulled and persuaded
And that even the nobles get properly handled
Once that the cops have chased after and caught 'em
And that ladder of law has no top and no bottom
Stared at the person who killed for no reason
Who just happened to be feelin' that way witout warnin'
And he spoke through his cloak, most deep and distinguished
And handed out strongly, for penalty and repentance
William Zanzinger with a six-month sentence
Oh, but you who philosophize disgrace and criticize all fearsv
Bury the rag deep in your face
For now's the time for your tears. 
 

 

[glenmohr]

4 hours ago, Grubster said:

I cannot believe the west is not Pounding the fact that the first police chief was removed for having the audacity to start an investigation into the Hi-So family that most evidence pointed to.

We are pounding the table Grubster, but no Thai can hear us.

[F4UCorsair]

59 minutes ago, Crustyhk said:

Twisting a partial quote around to suit yourself is one way of doing things I guess. 

You need to add the word "traveller" to either educated or uneducated. As I did. 

 

You seem to suggest I am criticising a travellers intelligence. Not the case at all. 

 

As a traveller to Thailand I read what goes on in Thailand which makes me an educated traveller. Which is why I will never return to Koh Tao. Not reading about Thailand before arriving would make me an uneducated traveller. 

 

At no stage did I mention the murdered Brits so I gather you were just throwing out a little bait for a barney. 

 

Most countries want tourists and the money they bring. I'm unsure of how many countries want tourists travelling on a pittance. 

 

 

You should be a politician with squirming such as you're doing.

 

You don't have to specifically mention the murdered Brits, but you then leave yourself open to them being included.   You should have specifically excluded them in your original uneducated, no money post, or run the risk of other posters believing you were aiming at them.

 

Very few countries want backpackers as tourists, spending little money, but they're stuck with them unless gaining a visa includes providing a statement of your assets and earnings, hotels at which you intend staying, and a requirement to spend a certain amount each day, as Myanmar had 20 years ago (and still may have).

[wvavin]

My six senses tell me they would be released in their 30s until all the coasts are cleared and no loss of face to the Thai judiciary.

[Grubster]

57 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Quite....

These guys can never be wrong and to openly admit it... well even overwhelming evidence would not sway their self belief.

Well if a second Judge overruled the first, couldn't the first file suit against the second for defamation.

[Retiredandhappyhere]

Thailand just does not recognise the World's utter disgust at the way this case was handled, including the manner in which the original police chief, who appeared to be on the trail of the real culprits, was transferred for daring to accuse so-called "connected people". 

[greenchair]

4 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

Maybe the reason they did not call 

Jane Taupin is because the defense knew police used new machine to cross reference and match dna so she would have had to show a judge how a machine managed to make the mistake and not a person (Robert Holmes has confirmed police testified they had new machine can do test in a few hours).

 

Also Jane Taupin asked for dna paperwork to be sent to her in Australia before she came to Thailand, she never received it then later on Andy Hall admitted the defense never made a request for the documentation.

 

And last but not least Jane was not the only dna expert the defense chose not to use they also had someone from the UK who's services they declined to use.

 

 

 

.

 

In my opinion pornthip really hurt the defense when she clarified a 25 percent match on the hoe coming from Wei Phyo. And the judge asked another defense witness that confirmed this information did not conclude this is certainly Wei Phyo, but it certainly did not disinclude him either. How many Asians were running around that island with a 25 percent match and the victims phone. Then Jane taupin quoted after the trial that dna by itself is not accepted in any court without strong circumstantial evidence. of which there was plenty of that. 

Then when adding that a UK expert was not utilised. the defense did most of the damage themselves, without any help from the judge. 

Andies very quiet lately. Millions of baht wasted, where it went nobody knows. I donated to that, and I asked how the money was spent got some quite nasty answers.

[Khun Han]

4 hours ago, smedly said:

Here is the Headline I would like to read in the coming months

 

PM orders fundamental review of Koh Tao Murders - irregularities to be investigated

 

Pornthip Rojanasunand and a team of independent experts will be tasked to investigate irregularities surrounding the case against ...................................... 

 

 

 

 

It won't happen. Even if he isn't aware of this conspiracy to pervert the course of justice (though I woild be astonished if he isn't), it was one of his handpicked own who ran the conspiracy up until his retirement.

[Aj Mick]

1 hour ago, greenchair said:

 

In my opinion pornthip really hurt the defense when she clarified a 25 percent match on the hoe coming from Wei Phyo. And the judge asked another defense witness that confirmed this information did not conclude this is certainly Wei Phyo, but it certainly did not disinclude him either. How many Asians were running around that island with a 25 percent match and the victims phone. Then Jane taupin quoted after the trial that dna by itself is not accepted in any court without strong circumstantial evidence. of which there was plenty of that. 

Then when adding that a UK expert was not utilised. the defense did most of the damage themselves, without any help from the judge. 

Andies very quiet lately. Millions of baht wasted, where it went nobody knows. I donated to that, and I asked how the money was spent got some quite nasty answers.

 

Probably all Asians, Europeans and other ethnicities running around the island would have a 25% match, along with a bunch of other primates and other creatures. For DNA evidence to be significant the match has to be 100%.

 

The circumstantial evidence is that the Burmese lads were drinking, smoking, drinking and playing guitar within 70 or 80 metres of where the bodies were found, and that a phone which may have belonged to one of the victims was found discarded near where the boys lived.

 

Yes, sadly the lads do seem to have been let down by a defence team that had more than a few noters, wannabes and dodgy characters in their ranks, along with a those with other issues on their mind.

Edited October 3, 2016 by Aj Mick

[biplanebluey]

6 hours ago, augustwest said:

At least their still alive!

I don't think the Bangkok Hilton can be called a LIFE------- an existence maybe

[aslimversgwm]

6 hours ago, smedly said:

Here is the Headline I would like to read in the coming months

 

PM orders fundamental review of Koh Tao Murders - irregularities to be investigated

 

Pornthip Rojanasunand and a team of independent experts will be tasked to investigate irregularities surrounding the case against ...................................... 

 

 

 

Yes - that would be truly wonderful - and I use the word 'wonderful' harking back to its origins.

Full of wonder and quite marvellous. But I fear this is as likely as the eternal pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Those poor boys.  I don't know how much longer they can endure their incarceration. Very concerned about that but what can we do? 

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed. 

[stephenterry]

Whatever the outcome of the appeal scheduled for 2017, the case will be referred to the supreme court a few more years down the line. Best scenario, sentences commuted to life, which means the b2 will spend a long time behind bars . Very sad, Thailand.

[kiwikeith]

12 hours ago, DoctorG said:

Having the appeal heard by the same trial judge is absurd. Has any judge ever overruled his own verdict?

 

You could not be more precise.

Absolute insult to the intelligence of everyone in this world.

If the families of the victims would stand up like Hanna did then these boys might have a show.

Sorry to say that but they can not be that blind and cruel as to let 2 innocent young men die.

 

[greenchair]

2 hours ago, Aj Mick said:

 

Probably all Asians, Europeans and other ethnicities running around the island would have a 25% match, along with a bunch of other primates and other creatures. For DNA evidence to be significant the match has to be 100%.

 

The circumstantial evidence is that the Burmese lads were drinking, smoking, drinking and playing guitar within 70 or 80 metres of where the bodies were found, and that a phone which may have belonged to one of the victims was found discarded near where the boys lived.

 

Yes, sadly the lads do seem to have been let down by a defence team that had more than a few noters, wannabes and dodgy characters in their ranks, along with a those with other issues on their mind.

 

I just love the way people squirm around the truth of that phone.

It's not that they had the phone, that sets alarm bells ringing. It's the amount of times Wei Phyo has changed his story .

I found it in the bar. 

I found it at 4.oclock in the morning when I was looking for my shoes. 

I found it in the night while walking back to my room to sleep. 

And now you. The phone was not found discarded mysteriously near their lodgings. Wp friend clearly said he recieved it from wp and smashed it and threw it in the bushes for fear of being implicated in the crime. This is also backed up by Wei Phyo himself. 

They should have had criminal lawyers, not human rights lawyers, and they had enough money to pay for that. Hope they will see many years in prison, but would like to see the death penalty overturned. 

[greenchair]

1 hour ago, kiwikeith said:

 

You could not be more precise.

Absolute insult to the intelligence of everyone in this world.

If the families of the victims would stand up like Hanna did then these boys might have a show.

Sorry to say that but they can not be that blind and cruel as to let 2 innocent young men die.

 

 

Hanna was beaten to death on a beach by 2 young males that were so cruel to watch an innocent young lady die.

Laura, Hannah's sister spoke out about the investigation and the way she felt her family were poorly treated. She never said anything about those 2 being innocent. 

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, kiwikeith said:

 

You could not be more precise.

Absolute insult to the intelligence of everyone in this world.

If the families of the victims would stand up like Hanna did then these boys might have a show.

Sorry to say that but they can not be that blind and cruel as to let 2 innocent young men die.

 

 

It was Hannah's sister, Laura, who spoke out Keith. She also provided a link to the Anonymous expose of the corruption and cover-up in this case to show her support for nailing the real killers.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, greenchair said:

 

I just love the way people squirm around the truth of that phone.

It's not that they had the phone, that sets alarm bells ringing. It's the amount of times Wei Phyo has changed his story .

I found it in the bar. 

I found it at 4.oclock in the morning when I was looking for my shoes. 

I found it in the night while walking back to my room to sleep. 

And now you. The phone was not found discarded mysteriously near their lodgings. Wp friend clearly said he recieved it from wp and smashed it and threw it in the bushes for fear of being implicated in the crime. This is also backed up by Wei Phyo himself. 

They should have had criminal lawyers, not human rights lawyers, and they had enough money to pay for that. Hope they will see many years in prison, but would like to see the death penalty overturned. 

 

A bit like Woraphan Tuvichien saying that his son, Warot, hadn't fled the island after the murders but was just returning to his studies in Bangkok. Then he changed his story to Warot not having been on the island for months. Then, despite all Warot's friends and associates deleting all their Facebook posts covering the weeks prior to the murders, some Facebook photos of Warot turned up showing him on the island a couple of weeks prior to the murders! So much for Woraphan's second lie about his son's whereabouts.

[DiscoDan]

16 hours ago, Dogmatix said:

Their pro bono defence team which had no experience in murder trials and no understanding of DNA analysis fell apart at the trial. Pig headedly they refused to put the internationally renowned Oz expert witness on the stand and went up a blind ally with Khunyimg Pornythep's testimony on the hoe instead (not Pornthep's fault), when their was no reason apart from xenophobia not to let both of them testify. Since the trial there has been a scandal about an advisor to the defence making off with some of the funds raised and general bickering.

 

The appeal is obviously a write off and Unless some white knights come to the rescue, their appeal in the Supreme Court will also be a shambles by which time they will have been largely forgotten anyway. Justics for the poor in Thailand.

 

 

 

 

I don't think you can use xenophobia as an excuse as they let Andy take the stand.

 

If you was one of the lawyers for the Burmese during the trial and you had a choice of 3 witnesses who would you choose?

 

A:  British dna expert

B: Aussie dna expert 

C: Both dna experts

D: Andy Hall

 

You have to ask yourselves why a team of 7 lawyers chose D, to me it only points to one fact, they knew they could not discredit the dna evidence.

 

 

.

[smedly]

from what I understand about the Thai justice system the defence cannot simply call whoever they feel like to give evidence or expert testimony - they must be approved by the court and cannot bring into question the professional conduct or procedures of police - administration or other professional contributors such as coroners

[Aj Mick]

8 hours ago, greenchair said:

 

I just love the way people squirm around the truth of that phone.

It's not that they had the phone, that sets alarm bells ringing. It's the amount of times Wei Phyo has changed his story .

I found it in the bar. 

I found it at 4.oclock in the morning when I was looking for my shoes. 

I found it in the night while walking back to my room to sleep. 

And now you. The phone was not found discarded mysteriously near their lodgings. Wp friend clearly said he recieved it from wp and smashed it and threw it in the bushes for fear of being implicated in the crime. This is also backed up by Wei Phyo himself. 

They should have had criminal lawyers, not human rights lawyers, and they had enough money to pay for that. Hope they will see many years in prison, but would like to see the death penalty overturned. 

 

I love the way people latch on around the "truth" of that phone….. extracted under "interrogation". Eventually people say whatever is expected to save themselves from another beating.

Edited October 3, 2016 by Aj Mick

[smedly]

1 hour ago, Aj Mick said:

 

I love the way people latch on around the "truth" of that phone….. extracted under "interrogation". Eventually people say whatever is expected to save themselves from another beating.

lets suppose for a moment I am a cop involved in a stitch up but I wasn't always the cop involved in the investigation and early on as widely reported there was a phone found on the beach at the crime scene and the police had already displayed it to the media so it was out there. It was originally claimed that this phone was Hannnahs but that was retracted when one of her friends produced Hannahs phone from her room - this all happened in the first few days of the original investigation then there was nothing more about this phone

 

Weeks later I then declare I find a phone near the residence of the accused - so I now have 2x phones.

 

The only way to identify which of these 2x phones belongs to the victim is by the IMEI number, at this point only me and my team know which phone is which and where they were found.

 

Then at the trial I suddenly declare that the phone found at the accused residence had the IMEI number matching the victims phone and the other of these 2x phones I decide is of no value to the investigation so simply exclude it - because I am Thai police and I can, in reality I don't want anyone to know anything about the other phone.

 

Not saying that this is what happened but simply that it could have and because both phones have not been properly investigated identified Recorded  Tagged and Bagged (Chain of Custody) as with other evidence in this case it then leaves it wide open to all sorts of abuse and evidence tampering - this cannot happen in a police investigation, the evidence must be solid and procedures followed to the letter   

[shillhater]

disco dan     they knew they could not discredit the dna evidence...

 

what dna evidence?  there was none..all used up.

[Grubster]

15 hours ago, aslimversgwm said:

Yes - that would be truly wonderful - and I use the word 'wonderful' harking back to its origins.

Full of wonder and quite marvellous. But I fear this is as likely as the eternal pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Those poor boys.  I don't know how much longer they can endure their incarceration. Very concerned about that but what can we do? 

 

16 hours ago, Aj Mick said:

 

Probably all Asians, Europeans and other ethnicities running around the island would have a 25% match, along with a bunch of other primates and other creatures. For DNA evidence to be significant the match has to be 100%.

 

The circumstantial evidence is that the Burmese lads were drinking, smoking, drinking and playing guitar within 70 or 80 metres of where the bodies were found, and that a phone which may have belonged to one of the victims was found discarded near where the boys lived.

 

Yes, sadly the lads do seem to have been let down by a defence team that had more than a few noters, wannabes and dodgy characters in their ranks, along with a those with other issues on their mind.

Yeah and its one thing letting the Hi-Sos off the hook, why do they have to end the lives of two young boys to do it? I'm surprised they didn't jail the Gardener that was driving the Red Bull Ferrari. This stuff is so blatant that you would think Great Briton, the US and others would take real action. I guess they need the Shrimp huh.