Sukhumvit street vendors ordered off road tonight. Will it be business as usual?

[jcisco]

On 10/4/2016 at 7:07 PM, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

More authoritarian nonsense, the footpath congestion could have beeneasily solved by making it stalls one side only. The hold ups are where the stalls are on both sides of the pavement and people browsing hold up other pedestrians who are actually going somewhere. But this is just common sense, something lacking in any shape or form in LoS.

It isn't authoritarian to regulate public space it is regulation of private space that is authoritarian.. and for the record the US is probably the leader in public space regulation with the federal statutes alone expanding about 30 laws a year just on personal behavior in the public space.

And in this case the BMA is granted permission to regulate the usage of the space by the States lawmakers.If you want suggestions for more appropriate concepts to explain whatever it is you think is going on. I'm sure you can open a thread in the pub for assistance.

[jcisco]

To some of the guys arguing on this thread over the quality of people, stalls, friends, words, products, being offended and their length of stay in Thailand.   All of you get a grip with the world, the worst failure here, is that of stating being offended by what you see and because of that deeming that it is unacceptable.

 

Overall in all the widsom accumulated in the lives of a lot of TV members, there seems a dire lack of perspective and acceptance.   Understand that people have different thoughts and make different choices and live their life different to yours, there is no single answer, nor right path.  

Not getting this, and complaining about the appropriateness, invonvenience or just outright incompatiability of what you are exposed to out and about, strikes me as what I anecdotally know expats who began overseas life middleaged or later to do.  Make the conscieous effort to stop  forming opinons on every little thing, and then if you can, stop doing so on TV, it has made this forum almost unbearable to myself and many other.

/Rant off, fire away boys.

 

[Scott]

Posts with personal attacks on other members have been removed.   Please stay on topic.  

[impulse]

6 hours ago, djmanu said:

 

That would be amazing, who would't dream to live a in clean city like Singapore with and fun and the cost of Bangkok ?

I'm sorry but Bangkok needs to be clean up.

 

More likely to end up with the worst of both...  Super expensive, even more filthy, and nothing to do that doesn't involve Gucci or Prada.

[teatree]

16 hours ago, Merylhighground said:

 

Agreed. Ironically enough this is a follow on of Thaksin's vision for Bangkok, turning it into a sterile, shopping centre, 5* hotel, empty condo, strewn mass of concrete along with not having so many foreigners around.

Looks like the current regime is doing a great job of bringing Thaksin's visions to reality.

While I wriggle with pleasure that those unfortunates who have to live/work in that grimy area might now be able to walk the pavements, when all that remains is the square root of sod all, apart from huge slabs of faceless concrete aimed at draining their salaries, I wonder if they will still be posting with such glee....

Surely, there is a middle ground here.  It is a false dichotomy to choose between Singapore on one hand, and uncontrolled vendor sprawl on the other.

 

Bangkok can keep its stalls, but let's just have some common sense involved and decide where they can be put.

 

I walked down Ratchaprarop rd yesterday and noticed that the vendors usually encroaching all over the pavement were gone.  There are still shophouses all along the road with little stalls outside their shop selling stuff, so if you want to shop you still can, and if you want to walk comfortably you can do that now too . 

 

Let's have a little thought about where stalls can be put so as not to obstruct pedestrians.

[ClutchClark]

26 minutes ago, teatree said:

Surely, there is a middle ground here.  It is a false dichotomy to choose between Singapore on one hand, and uncontrolled vendor sprawl on the other.

 

Bangkok can keep its stalls, but let's just have some common sense involved and decide where they can be put.

 

I walked down Ratchaprarop rd yesterday and noticed that the vendors usually encroaching all over the pavement were gone.  There are still shophouses all along the road with little stalls outside their shop selling stuff, so if you want to shop you still can, and if you want to walk comfortably you can do that now too . 

 

Let's have a little thought about where stalls can be put so as not to obstruct pedestrians.

 

I have never gotten the imression that Thais do middle ground.

 

 

 

 

[gdgbb]

3 hours ago, ClutchClark said:

 

I have never gotten the imression that Thais do middle ground.

 

Time for you to take a look at some of the very successfully cleaned up streets then.

[ClutchClark]

7 hours ago, gdgbb said:

 

Time for you to take a look at some of the very successfully cleaned up streets then.

 

My point exactly. 

 

My point was its an "All or Nothing" approach and the example you provided completely supports my point. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

An update report from Thurs night:

 

Along the even-sois side Sukhumvit Road between Nana and Asok, much to my surprise, all the street vendors normally located on the curb side of the sidewalk were GONE Thursday night.

 

There still were a few on the storefronts side of the sidewalk however. But just having those alone still left the sidewalks pretty clear for walking, a pleasant change from the past.

 

My wife has a favorite food cart that has always been located on the curb side of the main road sidwalk there. Today, the cart lady had relocated to a nearby side soi, and told my wife she'd no longer be doing her business along the main road.

 

So apparently, at least on the even-sided sois area (which is a different district from the odd sois), the authorities seem pretty serious about the new policy.

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

On 10/6/2016 at 4:20 AM, jcisco said:

It isn't authoritarian to regulate public space it is regulation of private space that is authoritarian.. and for the record the US is probably the leader in public space regulation with the federal statutes alone expanding about 30 laws a year just on personal behavior in the public space.

And in this case the BMA is granted permission to regulate the usage of the space by the States lawmakers.If you want suggestions for more appropriate concepts to explain whatever it is you think is going on. I'm sure you can open a thread in the pub for assistance.

I don't care what happens in the States, what happens here is what we are talking about. Niggling about authority's use of their powers is where I am coming from. The lack of common sense when applying the law is the problem, and if you read all of my post before replying you should have understood that.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

There's hardly any "law" being applied here.

 

Before, for many years, the authorities simply allowed whatever vendors who wanted to, and who paid the rental fee to the BMA's collectors and/or the police, to clutter up the Suk Road sidewalks.

 

Then a year or so back, some part of the government, national or BMA, decided that Sukhumvit vendors could remain on the main road sidewalks where they'd always been, but only starting from 7 pm or later in the evenings (and excluding Mondays as a supposed cleaning day).

 

And now, a year or so later, once again, some part of the government, national or BMA, has changed their mind and decided that the vendors simply should not be allowed on the public easement parts of the Suk Road sidewalks, regardless of the day or hour of day.

 

If there's an actual pertinent law being enforced anywhere here, it's pretty hard to find it. The "law" in such matters seems to be whatever those in charge at any given time decree it to be.

[The Dancer]

I was out of the country for a couple of weeks. Got back yesterday and decided to go get a late beer tonight where I always go, a little alco/food cart on Suk between Sois 5 and 7. Walked from the corner of 3 all the way to 11. Not a single vendor. And almost no people. What's usually the busiest stretch of Suk was empty. Friday night 3am felt like a no-alcohol Monday night with an election happening. In fact, walking back I got this eerie feeling that somehow I'd been zapped back to the hicky Midwest town which I'd escaped 11 years ago (where it's empty like this everywhere every day soon as it gets dark).

 

Now, I understand complaints about street stalls during the day clogging the way to proper shops and offices and getting in the way of pedestrians. But late night?

 

And it's not just tourists out for fun being inconvenienced. People making a living operating those stalls are Thai and a lot of locals, staff from entertainment joints in the vicinity particularly, stop by these places after work for food and beverage.

 

In any case, I hope it's temporary. There was a similar crackdown a few months ago which lasted a couple of weeks before things got back to normal.

Edited October 7, 2016 by The Dancer

[mcfish]

I was out of the country for a couple of weeks. Got back yesterday and decided to go get a late beer tonight where I always go, a little alco/food cart on Suk between Sois 5 and 7. Walked from the corner of 3 all the way to 11. Not a single vendor. And almost no people. What's usually the busiest stretch of Suk was empty. Friday night 3am felt like a no-alcohol Monday night with an election happening. In fact, walking back I got this eerie feeling that somehow I'd been zapped back to the hicky Midwest town which I'd escaped 11 years ago (where it's empty like this everywhere every day soon as it gets dark).

 

Now, I understand complaints about street stalls during the day clogging the way to proper shops and offices and getting in the way of pedestrians. But late night?

 

And it's not just tourists out for fun being inconvenienced. People making a living operating those stalls are Thai and a lot of locals, staff from entertainment joints in the vicinity particularly, stop by these places after work for food and beverage.

 

In any case, I hope it's temporary. There was a similar crackdown a few months ago which lasted a couple of weeks before things got back to normal.

You have you're wires crossed there was never a total crack down before. I live in the middle of it

Sent from my SC-01D using Tapatalk

[The Dancer]

4 minutes ago, mcfish said:

Yes late at night was the worst congestion due to the massive number of tourists leaving the hotel's for the evening. Day time is just to hot.

You have you're wires crossed there was never a total crack down before. I live in the middle of it

 

On that stretch of lower Suk it's tourists crawling the night plus people from the clubs and bars on Suks 4 and 11 emptying at 2am looking for afterhours action. Which is a problem for nobody because it's just them bumping merrily into each other and the vendors keeping them happy with food and drink and making a living in the process.

 

The earlier crackdown wasn't total like it seemed tonight. They shut down all the alcocarts but let the food stalls operate, who gave us beer to drink in glasses, no exposed bottles. 

[bkk6060]

On 10/6/2016 at 4:47 AM, jcisco said:

To some of the guys arguing on this thread over the quality of people, stalls, friends, words, products, being offended and their length of stay in Thailand.   All of you get a grip with the world, the worst failure here, is that of stating being offended by what you see and because of that deeming that it is unacceptable.

 

Overall in all the widsom accumulated in the lives of a lot of TV members, there seems a dire lack of perspective and acceptance.   Understand that people have different thoughts and make different choices and live their life different to yours, there is no single answer, nor right path.  

Not getting this, and complaining about the appropriateness, invonvenience or just outright incompatiability of what you are exposed to out and about, strikes me as what I anecdotally know expats who began overseas life middleaged or later to do.  Make the conscieous effort to stop  forming opinons on every little thing, and then if you can, stop doing so on TV, it has made this forum almost unbearable to myself and many other.

/Rant off, fire away boys.

 

Great post it should be reposted on the majority of the forums on here.

[SunLover2]

On 10/6/2016 at 5:28 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

An update report from Thurs night:

 

Along the even-sois side Sukhumvit Road between Nana and Asok, much to my surprise, all the street vendors normally located on the curb side of the sidewalk were GONE Thursday night.

Thanks for the update.  IMO the even side sois were not a big deal because the sidewalk is wider on that side of Sukhumvit.  It was the odd side is where the clogging was really bad.

 

Don't know why the authorities have to go with the all or nothing approach.  Why not something like Thursday/Friday/Saturday nights only? Yup; This is Thailand.

 

Two of the things tourists hear a lot about and want to experience in Bangkok are street food and night markets.  A lot of it is disappearing due to gentrification.  Feels like soon people will have to take the BTS to the last stop and walk 15 minutes to find a sanctioned street food / night market zoned display which is half museum and half disney faux.

 

SL

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I've thought all along, given the width of the sidewalks along most portions of lower Suk Road, it would be fine if the authorities limited the vendors to ONLY setting up one width of tables along the shops side of the sidewalk (assuming the shop owners agree/are paid), and then leave the middle and curb portions of the sidewalk unobstructed for pedestrians.

 

If they just did that, there's be enough room for the vendors to stay throughout the day and into the evening, and still enough room for people to talk up and down along the sidewalks there. But somehow, the authorities can't seem to grasp that kind of "works for everyone" type of solution.

 

Instead, before the latest change, they'd allow TWO rows of tables along the sidewalks after 7 pm (one along the curb side and the other along the shops side), and of course, often a very narrow and almost impossible to pass pedestrian route in the middle, usually not much more than 1 person wide when squeezed between the dual rows of vendor tables.

 

Why the authorities thought it was somehow OK to almost totally block the sidewalks on lower Suk Road after 7 pm, but not OK during the earlier hours of the day, I don't quite understand. There are probably more people out on the sidewalks during the early evening hours than the rest of the day, as Thai folks are going home from work, tourists are heading out for their evenings, etc etc.

 

And as you pointed out, the problem is generally worse on the odd-numbered sois side of the street, because the width of the sidewalks there often seems to be narrower than on the even-numbered sois side, though obviously, that varies by area.

 

 

 

 

 

[cliffspab]

I liked the glorious chaos of it all.

 

I hope they're back soon, and this crackdown was just for the Summit thing.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

At least in the lower Sukhumvit area, the ban on street sellers on the public sidewalk areas appears to be continuing and being executed with some vigor by the BMA folks.

 

In the past few days, the BMA officers have set up canopy tents along the sidewalks in various locations in the evenings, and in at least one of those, had big billboard signs on display in Thai and English where they were keeping daily score of the YES and NO opinions on the current ban. When I looked on Thurs, the results were substantially in favor, though I'm not sure exactly how and from whom they were tallying those "votes".

 

Meanwhile, along the section between Suk Sois 5 and 7, formerly a hotspot of night vending and narrow pedestrian ways, someone had come along and place big concrete planters every 15 feet or so in the curb areas of the sidewalk that formerly had been home to the night vendors.

 

This one looks like it's here to stay for the longer run...

 

PS - Just to be clear, from what I observed, there are still some street vendors out at night, but typically, they're only being located on the limited private property areas of the sidewalks associated with adjoining businesses. But on the public sidewalk areas, I saw pretty much none.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[anotheruser]

Works for me.

[HooHaa]

On 10/5/2016 at 0:43 AM, holy cow cm said:

Nice vocabulary. No, I would not ever write garbage undesirable words as you just did. so if you are suggesting better quality friends, then that certainly cannot start with yourself. The street has more flare to what you perceive and see it as. You missed the point altogether. But that is ok.

 

No, you write over-wrought gibberish.

 

All I see here is morons conversing with bigots.

 

Neither of you do your argument any service

[holy cow cm]

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 2:14 AM, HooHaa said:

 

No, you write over-wrought gibberish.

 

All I see here is morons conversing with bigots.

 

Neither of you do your argument any service

Perhaps. But your statement is pure show of the lack of anything intellectual except exasperation of you own hot winded label calling AIR. Who are you? Someone truly not note worthy who probably has zero time here. At least I think that the person I was ping ponging back with has fully more personal experience and time here that of you. When you have 10 years here then come to talk with me.  So, if we are morons and bigots, then you are purely an illiterate. Arm chair from 2 years OF 3362 posts is out of concept for ANYONE PERSO WHO HAS ANY SOME SORT OF A REAL NOTABLE life here. Waiting to die I would presume, or not balls enough to converse with real Thailand. So, Shut your trap and you are lucky I took my precious time to reply your laughable comment.

[HooHaa]

8 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

Perhaps. But your statement is pure show of the lack of anything intellectual except exasperation of you own hot winded label calling AIR. Who are you? Someone truly not note worthy who probably has zero time here. At least I think that the person I was ping ponging back with has fully more personal experience and time here that of you. When you have 10 years here then come to talk with me.  So, if we are morons and bigots, then you are purely an illiterate. Arm chair from 2 years OF 3362 posts is out of concept for ANYONE PERSO WHO HAS ANY SOME SORT OF A REAL NOTABLE life here. Waiting to die I would presume, or not balls enough to converse with real Thailand. So, Shut your trap and you are lucky I took my precious time to reply your laughable comment.

 

I have lived in bangkok since 1996. It has been and continues to be my primary residence, when i am not on the islands in the south. I arrived and have thrived since my mid 20''s. 

 

At least i have based my comments on the content of your discussion, not empty assumptions.

 

I would reccomend checking your definition of illiterate,  and taking a peek at the definition of the word verbose.

 

Edited October 23, 2016 by HooHaa

[holy cow cm]

1 hour ago, HooHaa said:

 

I have lived in bangkok since 1996. It has been and continues to be my primary residence, when i am not on the islands in the south. I arrived and have thrived since my mid 20''s. 

 

At least i have based my comments on the content of your discussion, not empty assumptions.

 

I would reccomend checking your definition of illiterate,  and taking a peek at the definition of the word verbose.

 

Very Hard to believe.

[HooHaa]

On 10/23/2016 at 1:41 PM, holy cow cm said:

Very Hard to believe.

 

yes i provided you so much detail to foster your doubts.

and do you think i care in the slightest what you believe?

Edited October 24, 2016 by HooHaa

[Beechboy]

Whilst a colourful touch of Asia the street vendors of Bkk clearly present a hazard that would give the typical English 'elf and safety' official a field day.

 

It's extremes again. My local publican here was prevented from putting a table and a couple of chairs outside his establishment as they would constitute obstruction on what was a fairly wide and not too busy footpath. On Sukhumvit the stalls presented a hazard and a problem that eventually needed addressing.

 

I won't miss the 'service' as I avoided buying from them at all costs in any case. Hassle, bartering, low quality, fake, poor choice. No thanks a leisurely walk around Robinsons for me, and I doubt it's much more expensive.

 

In fact, on a  price for item basis I should guess that, taking the ripping off of unwary tourists into account, it is more expensive from the pavement overall than from your average precinct.

 

Miss them though. Fine for eye shopping (and I don't mean of the videos) and think what you like about them they exude character and are an essential livlihood to many.

 

Now for my question. I come for my half year there next week. Are the small all-night 'caravan' bars excluded too. Now that would really upset me.

[holy cow cm]

On ‎10‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 0:44 PM, HooHaa said:

 

yes i provided you so much detail to foster your doubts.

and do you think i care in the slightest what you believe?

Right back at you. Inconsequential as a grain of salt is how I perceive your thoughts.