Elephant picks up woman in Ayuthaya in its trunk and tosses her to the ground - she is severely injured

[Wilsonandson]

10 hours ago, cumgranosalum said:

"elephants and mahouts have a very strong bond and if the elephant feels that his mahout is angry at someone he probably reacts to that" - sorry but in most cases in Thailand, that is absolute nonsense. The elephants are rented out by the day to men who for one reason or another have some experience in handling elephants - normally limited to a few bits of folklore and a large metal hook.

 

the old concept of a mahout living/working with the same elephant for a lifetime is now largely a myth.

 

These guys in charge of elephants are uneducated and untrained - they pick up a few "techniques" that work along the way, very little is actually learned about the animals in their care, they are jusat interested in getting as many customers as they can.

Not sure about Ayuttaya mahouts but the ones on Koh Chang are very proffesional. I have been lucky to visit that beautiful island on many occasions and visit the same elephants each time.

The mahouts are the same people and I've got to know a few of them. They told me they'd been with the same elephant since it was born. Around 5 years old they take on an elephant and train it everyday. They stay with that same elephant until either they or the elephant passes away. They know their elephants like you and me know a close friend.

As for the money side of it. I never saw them over working the elephants. Many elephants would take a rest and eat. The mahouts only did so many trips each day, you have to book to get a ride.

The best part of the elephant camp is that all the elephants are allowed to go down to the beach in the late afternoon and swim in the sea. Many tourists would be in there with them swimming and taking photos. Children smiles, grandads waving, fantastic.

The elephant on Koh Chang are a happy family and you know something else, they love to eat bananas.

Edited October 5, 2016 by metisdead
Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes or wording.

[jak2002003]

22 minutes ago, zd1 said:

Elephants are a truly majestic animal, they are also a lot smarter than they are given credit for.

Maybe the unripe bananas affect the elephants digestive system, the elephant didn't want to eat them the mahout knew this and obviously warned the woman not to feed the elephant, the woman ignored him and the elephant took action. The elephant behaved in a restrained manner as the woman is still alive, if the elephant wanted the woman dead she would be, the elephant just picked the woman up and flung her to the ground as a warning.

In this case it looks to me that the elephant took this woman to be a threat and dealt with her the way it knows best.

I agree with a lot of people who say that elephants shouldn't be in captivity, but what is the answer, is there an area that could be used as a proper elephant conservation area it would have to be huge as elephants in the wild tend to roam looking for food. I just don't think that this would be able to happen due to the amount of people who would be displaced to set up this vast area for an elephant reserve and then there is the money for the land where does it come from?

I love elephants and have to admit that I will feed them pretty much any time I come into contact with them, I don't care for the tricks that they are taught as in my opinion I think it degrading towards the elephant.

To the poster who suggested putting the elephant down, what planet are you on idiot.

 

They could be rehabilitated and released into the larger Thai national parks that already have elephants.. to boost the wild population.

OR

They could even be let 'free' in a huge area and live like elephants in a Safari Park in the UK. 

Tourists could pay to go and see them in that more natural state and get educated about them and help their conservation. 

 

At least them they would have space to do as they like and interact with each other.. and would not be forced to do shows and carry people about every day while getting stabbed with metal hooks and yelled at.  At least they would not be chained up for hours at a time over night or when not in use.. swaying from side to side going mad with frustration.  And at least they would not have their babies taken away from them and tortured into submission.

 

 

 

 

[Wilsonandson]

4 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

They could be rehabilitated and released into the larger Thai national parks that already have elephants.. to boost the wild population.

OR

They could even be let 'free' in a huge area and live like elephants in a Safari Park in the UK. 

Tourists could pay to go and see them in that more natural state and get educated about them and help their conservation. 

 

At least them they would have space to do as they like and interact with each other.. and would not be forced to do shows and carry people about every day while getting stabbed with metal hooks and yelled at.  At least they would not be chained up for hours at a time over night or when not in use.. swaying from side to side going mad with frustration.  And at least they would not have their babies taken away from them and tortured into submission.

 

 

 

 

Meanwhile in Koh Chang....

The baby elephant stays with it's mother for the first 2 years. Then if there are other babies a cresh is formed. A bit like going to preschool. They go off together in the morning. Say goodbye to mum. Walk down to the beach have a swim in the sea. Some of the older elephants might let some of the younger children ride on it's back. Then it's back to camp for breakfast. Which takes up alot of the elephants time, eating lots of fresh elephant food. Then its check up time. Each of the elephants feet are checked, they're skin, temperature, teeth, ears, ...

During the hot part of the day all the elephants return to camp. So the babies are reunited with their mothers. Then late afternoon they all travel down to the beach each holding the others tail for an afternoon dip and then it's back to camp for more food and an early night's sleep.

I know this, because I have spent the whole day with them. Just once. 7am-5pm. A day I shall always remember as I hope the elephants do also when I visit them again. Hopefully soon.

[RaoulDuke]

10 hours ago, PremiumLane said:

It is quite simple really, Elephants should either be in the wild or wildlife reserves where they can live normal and natural lives. Not used as amusement for tourists.

 

In principle, I agree 100% with this sentiment. Unfortunately, elephants are not even safe from poaching in many wildlife reserves, much less in the wild. The only real solution is to kill all of the rotten and miserable people in the world and return the whole planet to the animals. Unfortunately, I doubt that is going to happen any time soon, and by the time we do kill each other off, the rest of the planet will be just as dead.

[PremiumLane]

21 minutes ago, RaoulDuke said:

 

In principle, I agree 100% with this sentiment. Unfortunately, elephants are not even safe from poaching in many wildlife reserves, much less in the wild. The only real solution is to kill all of the rotten and miserable people in the world and return the whole planet to the animals. Unfortunately, I doubt that is going to happen any time soon, and by the time we do kill each other off, the rest of the planet will be just as dead.

 

This place is great and well worth a visit or donation - the elephants are kept in natural environments and not made to perform tricks or give rides. Most are rescue animals.

 

http://www.elephantnaturepark.org/

[zd1]

1 hour ago, jak2002003 said:

They could be rehabilitated and released into the larger Thai national parks that already have elephants.. to boost the wild population.

OR

They could even be let 'free' in a huge area and live like elephants in a Safari Park in the UK. 

Tourists could pay to go and see them in that more natural state and get educated about them and help their conservation. 

 

At least them they would have space to do as they like and interact with each other.. and would not be forced to do shows and carry people about every day while getting stabbed with metal hooks and yelled at.  At least they would not be chained up for hours at a time over night or when not in use.. swaying from side to side going mad with frustration.  And at least they would not have their babies taken away from them and tortured into submission.

 

 

 

 

While I agree in principal to what you are saying i'm not sure that it is practical, releasing them into thai national parks the elephants probably won't adhere to the boundary and there would be problems with neighbouring farmers and villages. Poaching is another issue that knowing mankinds greed would probably happen in this scenario.

Another problem here would be younger male elephants in musk which can be extremely dangerous and reek havoc with anything they come into contact with.

The safari park idea nice as it may sound is not much better than they already have, a lot of the elephant places in Thailand have a similar amount of space for the elephants to roam as what they would have in a safari park.

I would like to see the elephant shows banned as I believe they are degrading to this majestic beast but while there is money to be made it will undoubtable continue, apart from boycotting these shows I don't see an answer.

 

[DavidSSaville]

If the Mahout is very good and the bond does exists, nothing to say the Mahout didn't give a one word attack order much like a dog.

Just sayin'

[Grusa]

There are some sad truths here:-

There are those who love elephants, and will say, do and approve anything to keep the species going;

There are those who love elephants, and will condemn anything that suggests exploitation or abuse;

There are those who give not a flying <deleted> for elephants, or any other living thing except themselves;

There are a very few who hate elephants and want to see them extinct.

 

None of the above will ever agree about anything to do with elephants.

 

Really, we should learn from the elephants, who probably have similar views about humanity, but refrain from slaughtering us, or themselves.

[cumgranosalum]

7 hours ago, twizzian said:

The elephant did not want to eat "nam wa" (raw/unripe) bananas, why would it be a dumb animal.

if a stranger forced bananas down your throat how would you react?

It seems some folk on here can be dumber than elephants!

"If a stranger forced bananas down your throat how would you react?" - pray tell, how would you do that to an elephant???

[cumgranosalum]

2 hours ago, Wilsonandson said:

Meanwhile in Koh Chang....

The baby elephant stays with it's mother for the first 2 years. Then if there are other babies a cresh is formed. A bit like going to preschool. They go off together in the morning. Say goodbye to mum. Walk down to the beach have a swim in the sea. Some of the older elephants might let some of the younger children ride on it's back. Then it's back to camp for breakfast. Which takes up alot of the elephants time, eating lots of fresh elephant food. Then its check up time. Each of the elephants feet are checked, they're skin, temperature, teeth, ears, ...

During the hot part of the day all the elephants return to camp. So the babies are reunited with their mothers. Then late afternoon they all travel down to the beach each holding the others tail for an afternoon dip and then it's back to camp for more food and an early night's sleep.

I know this, because I have spent the whole day with them. Just once. 7am-5pm. A day I shall always remember as I hope the elephants do also when I visit them again. Hopefully soon.

Firstly why are there elephants on Koh Chang??

 

secondly why are there baby elephants and where do they come from?

Raid on KC elephant camp

 

have you seen how baby elephants are "broken"

 

 

[Grubster]

13 hours ago, PremiumLane said:

It is quite simple really, Elephants should either be in the wild or wildlife reserves where they can live normal and natural lives. Not used as amusement for tourists.

This would require killing of a few thousand elephants that were trained for logging, They don't know how to live in the wild. Its a big problem for Thailand and nobody really wants to pay to feed them except tourists.

[tifino]

4 hours ago, Rorri said:

Is it possible that the ranting of the mahout is what triggered the elephant, along the same lines as a dog protects its master?

 

the elephant gets stirred up because the mahout wasn't getting his cut, as the woman brought her own 'nanas

 

... no profit

[cumgranosalum]

12 minutes ago, Grubster said:

This would require killing of a few thousand elephants that were trained for logging, They don't know how to live in the wild. Its a big problem for Thailand and nobody really wants to pay to feed them except tourists.

Wildlife reserves are areas set aside of animals - elephants are intelligent and can live in a fenced reserve quite happily. this happens around the world, including Thailand.

they can be released into the wild - not because they can't fend for themselves - but because with no "fear" of humans they will readily approach and encroach. even wild elephants present a problem to farmers if their habitat and food supply becomes restricted.

 

the truth is that despite "encroachment" therte is a lot of land in Thailand that can either be used as reserves or returned to un-encroached forest....this means that given the will the country could protect both wild and captive elephants.

 

[cumgranosalum]

1 hour ago, Grusa said:

There are some sad truths here:-

There are those who love elephants, and will say, do and approve anything to keep the species going;

There are those who love elephants, and will condemn anything that suggests exploitation or abuse;

There are those who give not a flying <deleted> for elephants, or any other living thing except themselves;

There are a very few who hate elephants and want to see them extinct.

 

None of the above will ever agree about anything to do with elephants.

 

Really, we should learn from the elephants, who probably have similar views about humanity, but refrain from slaughtering us, or themselves.

you really don't seem to understand the issues at all..or the stances of those who are "pro-elephant" - this is not just a question of whether elephants are looked after or "survive" - it is an even more pressing issue; that of the environment in Thailand and the whole surrounding region. the Elephant is a KEYSTONE species (look it up!) without which much of Thailand's wild places will degrade or even collapse (and those of neighbouring countries) - the attitudes to elephants and captive animals in general allows the continued destruction of eco and bio systems that we as humans need as much as the elephants. The continued exploitation of these creatures merely goes to show how profoundly ignorant many people are of the critical issues that surround them.

Edited October 5, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[Wilsonandson]

Firstly why are there elephants on Koh Chang??
 
secondly why are there baby elephants and where do they come from?
Raid on KC elephant camp
 
have you seen how baby elephants are "broken"
 
 

Yes, I know about this. Burmese elephant. Taken from the wild. A baby elephant as well. What do you want me to say? Very sad.
I will say to you something though. You know monkey world a rescue santuary in Dorset, U K. Well, my big sis works there, helps out, cleans the enclosure. Those 2 people that own the place come out to Thailand quite frequently looking for monkeys who need rescuing and other animals.
I enjoyed my elephant ride in Koh Chang, my sister liked my facebook pictures. My thoughts of you are that you seem like some animal rights type of person. Good for you. We all need variety as variety is the spice of life. You were quite vocal about the Tiger Temple I remember, too. Is elephants the latest crusade? Bored of tigers now are we?
Sorry if I sound rude, not !

[cumgranosalum]

3 minutes ago, Wilsonandson said:

Yes, I know about this. Burmese elephant. Taken from the wild. A baby elephant as well. What do you want me to say? Very sad.
I will say to you something though. You know monkey world a rescue santuary in Dorset, U K. Well, my big sis works there, helps out, cleans the enclosure. Those 2 people that own the place come out to Thailand quite frequently looking for monkeys who need rescuing and other animals.
I enjoyed my elephant ride in Koh Chang, my sister liked my facebook pictures. My thoughts of you are that you seem like some animal rights type of person. Good for you. We all need variety as variety is the spice of life. You were quite vocal about the Tiger Temple I remember, too. Is elephants the latest crusade? Bored of tigers now are we?
Sorry if I sound rude, not !

You clearly haven't an inkling about wildlife, animal welfare or conservation as you seem to think each animal is a separate issue.

 

As for riding elephants - it is simple; if you can ride it, it's being exploited.

as for the baby elephants - the government has just issued a dictum saying that all captive elephants are to be DNA tested - it is remarkable how naive people are when they accept some cockamamie story about orphan elephants and "happy families". There are no indigenous elephants on KC they has all been shipped over from the mainland and even Cambodia or Myanmar......the babies history can only be suspect - they of course have a huge added value being a primary attraction for the gullible tourist.

Edited October 5, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[PremiumLane]

50 minutes ago, Grubster said:

This would require killing of a few thousand elephants that were trained for logging, They don't know how to live in the wild. Its a big problem for Thailand and nobody really wants to pay to feed them except tourists.

 

??? how did you jump to that conclusion? It means nothing of the sort

[Wilsonandson]

You clearly haven't an inkling about wildlife, animal welfare or conservation as you seem to think each animal is a separate issue.
 
As for riding elephants - it is simple; if you can ride it, it's being exploited.

I know.
But in my opinion, from what I saw, whilst on holiday, after spending a whole day with the elephants, I, me, thought the elephants were treated very well. I saw this thread about elephants as I post often on TV. Memories flashed back and I just wanted to share my opinion. To a well trained eye you could be right. But from my tourist on holiday eyes I saw nothing wrong.
When I was a kid my family used to take all of us out to the circus. They had lions, horses, maybe some sea lions juggling balls. Anyway, I was about 5 years old. We had a great evening. Then we got back into our big volvo estate. My dad pulled out on to the road leading out and smash. The windscreen on the car was shattered. Police sirens, I was screaming, animal rights demonstrators with plaquards chanting "Animal Rights". Some people put animals lives before human lives.

[PremiumLane]

1 minute ago, Wilsonandson said:

I know.
But in my opinion, from what I saw, whilst on holiday, after spending a whole day with the elephants, I, me, thought the elephants were treated very well. I saw this thread about elephants as I post often on TV. Memories flashed back and I just wanted to share my opinion. To a well trained eye you could be right. But from my tourist on holiday eyes I saw nothing wrong.
When I was a kid my family used to take all of us out to the circus. They had lions, horses, maybe some sea lions juggling balls. Anyway, I was about 5 years old. We had a great evening. Then we got back into our big volvo estate. My dad pulled out on to the road leading out and smash. The windscreen on the car was shattered. Police sirens, I was screaming, animal rights demonstrators with plaquards chanting "Animal Rights". Some people put animals lives before human lives.

 

Your ignorance is actually astounding, unless you are just trolling... hard to tell, really. 

 

And just cos you have an opinion doesn't mean it is right, or shouldn't be mocked. 

[Xircal]

Elephant getting frustrated. It's quite funny to watch but it also shows what the animal's reaction is likely to be if it gets frustrated.

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2016 by Xircal

[Grubster]

1 minute ago, PremiumLane said:

 

??? how did you jump to that conclusion? It means nothing of the sort

I guess I thought I heard it said on one or more of the hundreds of nature shows about elephants, that they are a very family oriented animal and that those that have been in captivity for long periods of time cannot adapt and would likely be rejected by any wild ones,  they will become very mean and dangerous especially during rut when they are rejected by herds.  Thats how I jumped to that conclusion. Dogs are very intelligent too, How do they fare in the wild after they have been raised in your back yard? I would rather shoot my dog in the head then put it through that horrible fate.

[MiKT]

12 hours ago, AlQaholic said:

Well I thought like you, but did some research on the net, it is simply not practical to breed Elephants due to their long reproductive cycle, so most Elephants are actually taken from the wild.

 

No this is absolute BS as far as Thailand  is concerned. Where are all the wild elephants left in Thailand? there are regrettably  very few indeed and getting less every year due to habitat loss and traffic accidents, caused by mad drivers speeding through the few parks where wild elephants live at night.

Anyway, stealing a baby elephant from the wild elephants would be very difficult, as you might find out if you had ever been chased by one. The tourist elephants all come from the now defunct logging industry.

 

I don't agree with elephants being fed by tourists and it is amazing how many people are killed or mangled by so called "tame" elephants every year in Thailand, not to mention India, Bangladesh and Myanmar.

 

The mahouts don't just kick them behind the ear they use very sharp hooks to keep them under control. Yes many mahouts have good relationships with their elephants, but also many get killed by angry elephants in "Musth"  - or just pissed off with being mistreated.

 

But it is absolutely disgusting to blame the elephant and to talk of having it put down is disgraceful. Fortunately this is one time when Thai attitudes will prevail. There are many elephants around that have killed several people. I met an old one once in Kanchanaburi that had killed 10 people and it was still being kept as it only killed people stupid enough to get near when it was in Musth.

 

Bottom line, stay away from elephants and don't encourage feeding by tourists.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MiKT]

9 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

I have some experience here. My dog was a highly trained guard dog. In fact he was used as a demonstration dog for the company that taught us how to train him. Because he was very controllable, from strongly aggressive to docile in a blink and on command. Especially when he was in his guard collar.

Note that I am calling him a guard dog and not a Police dog, there is a difference.

Now if you were to have an argument with me where I appeared to be getting upset with you. I guarantee you, my dog would  shut you down without a word from me (unless I stopped him) and you'd be changing your shorts soon after. But he wouldn't seriously hurt you.

He was a very large German Shepherd.

 

Very similar to the elephant scenario IMO

 

I would say if your Shep. (my favourite) attacked without a command from you unless you were being physically attacked it was not a "well trained" dog.

 

Now probably you will say "shut down" does not mean actually attacking, but a noisy response, a raised paw, lick your hand.........possibly.

 

Besides, making people sh.t themselves could be called cruelty to the poor dog, after all there are smells and "smells".

 

But elephants are not dogs, they are much to big to train to fetch the morning paper.

 

 

 

 

[cumgranosalum]

2 hours ago, MiKT said:

 

No this is absolute BS as far as Thailand  is concerned. Where are all the wild elephants left in Thailand? there are regrettably  very few indeed and getting less every year due to habitat loss and traffic accidents, caused by mad drivers speeding through the few parks where wild elephants live at night.

Anyway, stealing a baby elephant from the wild elephants would be very difficult, as you might find out if you had ever been chased by one. The tourist elephants all come from the now defunct logging industry.

 

I don't agree with elephants being fed by tourists and it is amazing how many people are killed or mangled by so called "tame" elephants every year in Thailand, not to mention India, Bangladesh and Myanmar.

 

The mahouts don't just kick them behind the ear they use very sharp hooks to keep them under control. Yes many mahouts have good relationships with their elephants, but also many get killed by angry elephants in "Musth"  - or just pissed off with being mistreated.

 

But it is absolutely disgusting to blame the elephant and to talk of having it put down is disgraceful. Fortunately this is one time when Thai attitudes will prevail. There are many elephants around that have killed several people. I met an old one once in Kanchanaburi that had killed 10 people and it was still being kept as it only killed people stupid enough to get near when it was in Musth.

 

Bottom line, stay away from elephants and don't encourage feeding by tourists.

 

 

 

" The tourist elephants all come from the now defunct logging industry." - unfortunately this is not true - the value of elephants as tourist attractions has meant that now there is a lot of demand for new animals and this means capture of  animals form the wild and smuggling of the animals across borders.

 

"stealing a baby elephant from the wild elephants would be very difficult"

Unfortunately you are ill-informed again.......smuggling of baby elephants is the most profitable - how are they separated from their family? Well by killing the adults first, often for ivory.

[Johpa]

3 hours ago, Grubster said:

This would require killing of a few thousand elephants that were trained for logging, They don't know how to live in the wild. Its a big problem for Thailand and nobody really wants to pay to feed them except tourists.

 

Most elephants are left to fend for themselves after work. They are hobbled to prevent them from wandering too far and into someone's garden. But they can still live in the "wild". Problem is that there is no longer enough wild left relative to the total number of elephants.

 

 

Most of the larger elephant camps up north, such as Mae Sa, the largest in the north, are self-sustaining.  Many of the smaller elephant camps up north get their elephants from local Karen owners who have allowed some natural breeding to take place within their small herds. As the existence of remote logging camps has dwindled so has the practice of capturing wild elephants.  I can't say what is happening in Burma, where Burmese troops are still slaughtering people, but I doubt you will find today instances of slaughtering elephant families in the Thai national parks where the few wild elephant herds exist.

 

 

[cumgranosalum]

1 hour ago, Johpa said:

 

Most elephants are left to fend for themselves after work. They are hobbled to prevent them from wandering too far and into someone's garden. But they can still live in the "wild". Problem is that there is no longer enough wild left relative to the total number of elephants.

 

 

Most of the larger elephant camps up north, such as Mae Sa, the largest in the north, are self-sustaining.  Many of the smaller elephant camps up north get their elephants from local Karen owners who have allowed some natural breeding to take place within their small herds. As the existence of remote logging camps has dwindled so has the practice of capturing wild elephants.  I can't say what is happening in Burma, where Burmese troops are still slaughtering people, but I doubt you will find today instances of slaughtering elephant families in the Thai national parks where the few wild elephant herds exist.

 

 

Virtually every point in this post is wrong.

The logging elephants don't live in the wild.

Nor are they are not hobbled a left in the wild.

There IS enough space for elephants both wild and captive - but unfortunately it is being illegally encroached and broken up leaving wild herds isolated and reserves for captive elephants without sufficient finance.

What is meant by "self-sustaining"? Ay wildlife or captive animal requires protection and care.

The capture of wild elephants is on the increase as the original population of logging elephants dwindles the "owners" wish to continue making money from exploiting elephants as tourist entertainment.

Most of the smuggled elephants come across the Thai/Burma border where the extensive jungle and lawless borders make this relatively easy.

There are MANY instances of elephants being killed in Thai national parks - and it has been suggested that the ones reported may just be the tip of the iceberg

 

 

[MiKT]

1 hour ago, cumgranosalum said:

 

" The tourist elephants all come from the now defunct logging industry." - unfortunately this is not true - the value of elephants as tourist attractions has meant that now there is a lot of demand for new animals and this means capture of  animals form the wild and smuggling of the animals across borders.

 

"stealing a baby elephant from the wild elephants would be very difficult"

Unfortunately you are ill-informed again.......smuggling of baby elephants is the most profitable - how are they separated from their family? Well by killing the adults first, often for ivory.

 

Well this terrible image is from 2011 and shows a baby elephant being beaten  into submission in during a "training session" in a Karen village in Burma before being smuggled into Thailand so I freely admit I am wrong and much needs to be done to stop this if it is still prevalent.

 

The website is http://photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/03/03/6180772-baby-elephant-tortured-into-submission-before-illegal-smuggling-from-burma-to-Thailand.

 

 

 

 

However, I think that there is less smuggling than before and certainly you don't see elephants being paraded around in Bangkok like they used to be; and even in Pattaya, not very many  now.

 

Some "trained" (ha ha) elephant shows in the Crocodile Farm at Samute Prakarn and the Zoo and the Safari Park, but I would have thought they had enough babies without needing to smuggle more.

 

There are always a few elephants around in Buri Ram, but I think its the same family that have been around for years, no new babies lately.

 

Also I am puzzled why the big elephant camps in the north would need to smuggle in babies, they have more than enough to look after.

 

Hopefully somebody will spill some more light on this situation.

 

However, I do think that there are not many wild elephants killed here for their babies, as their are so few places left for elephants to live in the wild left in Thailand and elephant deaths are usually well documented in the papers. Mostly car accidents and a few poisonings from idiot farmers trying to protect illegal crops in the wildlife areas where no farming is supposed to take place.

 

More facts welcomed, but I stand by my earlier post to say, keep away from elephants, they are not pets.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[balo]

True story,  I worked in a circus for a few weeks when I was a teenager , feeding the elephants .   I was preparing a big tray of elephant "porridge"  when I lost my watch  and it landed in the tray full of porridge . It was a present I got for my birthday so I quickly tried to search for it with my hand but at the same time the elephant was ready to eat and that made him very upset. So what happened next is he grabbed my arm and threw me up in the air , it happened in just a few seconds , luckily the elephant trainer was nearby and he managed to get me down and calming down the elephant. I was in great pain but escaped the incident with minor bruises on my arm and shoulder. 

 

Needless to say I have not been near an elephant since  that episode .  They are powerful animals , show some respect and do not irritate them .  Oh and my watch survived the porridge and was ticking for another 10 years. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2016 by balo

[cumgranosalum]

2 hours ago, MiKT said:

 

Well this terrible image is from 2011 and shows a baby elephant being beaten  into submission in during a "training session" in a Karen village in Burma before being smuggled into Thailand so I freely admit I am wrong and much needs to be done to stop this if it is still prevalent.

 

The website is http://photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/03/03/6180772-baby-elephant-tortured-into-submission-before-illegal-smuggling-from-burma-to-Thailand.

 

 

 

 

However, I think that there is less smuggling than before and certainly you don't see elephants being paraded around in Bangkok like they used to be; and even in Pattaya, not very many  now.

 

Some "trained" (ha ha) elephant shows in the Crocodile Farm at Samute Prakarn and the Zoo and the Safari Park, but I would have thought they had enough babies without needing to smuggle more.

 

There are always a few elephants around in Buri Ram, but I think its the same family that have been around for years, no new babies lately.

 

Also I am puzzled why the big elephant camps in the north would need to smuggle in babies, they have more than enough to look after.

 

Hopefully somebody will spill some more light on this situation.

 

However, I do think that there are not many wild elephants killed here for their babies, as their are so few places left for elephants to live in the wild left in Thailand and elephant deaths are usually well documented in the papers. Mostly car accidents and a few poisonings from idiot farmers trying to protect illegal crops in the wildlife areas where no farming is supposed to take place.

 

More facts welcomed, but I stand by my earlier post to say, keep away from elephants, they are not pets.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

you are making assumptions that completely ignore the evidence.

 

"However, I think that there is less smuggling than before and certainly you don't see elephants being paraded around in Bangkok like they used to be; and even in Pattaya, not very many  now."

 

"Less smuggling than before"?? - it is on the increase  - what do you mean "before" - before what???

 

tHe value of a baby elephant has been estimated as high as 800,000 baht.

ivory for adults  is also sought after 

The value of young elephants as tourist attractions has made them a highly desirable product.

 

"However, I do think that there are not many wild elephants killed here for their babies, - Elephants have been reported killed in several locations in Thailand over the last few years - many more are believed either not reported or eve discovered....however animals in the wild do not have passports and the slaughter continues over the border as families of wild elephants are killed for the babies for smuggling into the lucrative tourist trade and ivory is taken from the adults as a bonus.

 

" elephant deaths are usually well documented in the papers" - no they are not - only the few discovered are reported - the Western Forest Complex is massive and a whole group of dead elephants can remain undiscovered in such a vast region.

 

 

"as their are so few places left for elephants to live in the wild left in Thailand" - again pure assumption - there is a large amount of forest - pristine and otherwise that is suitable for elephants, it is illegal encroachment causing conflict with humans, poaching and poisoning by those wishing to take over land that is a major threat. It is regrettable that the law is simply not enforced - or due to the topography, an't be enforced.

 

[masuk]

22 hours ago, CaptHaddock said:

Interesting that, without hearing anything from the tourist, everyone readily believes the owner and the mahout, who after all have an interest in avoiding any responsibility by blaming the victim.

So:  check the evidence.  Were the bananas green or ripe?