30,000 To Rally On Constitution Day To Demand Election

[Jai Dee]

Rally at Sanam Luang this Sunday postponed

A rally scheduled for this Sunday would be postponed to January after organisers were requested by a highly-respected person, one of the organiser said Friday.

Chanapat Na Nakhon, leader of the People Group for Democracy, said that he could not reveal the name of the person.

Source: The Nation - 9 December 2006

[Jai Dee]

Another anti-coup group pulls out

Activist Chanapat na Nakhon yesterday decided to cancel his plan to lead an anti-coup protest tomorrow, claiming that a "well-respected social figure" had warned him about possible violence triggered by a third party.

Meanwhile, workers from more than 43 state enterprises will stage a massive rally at the Royal Plaza on Wednesday to press the interim government to cancel the privatisation of state-owned bodies.

In a statement handed to the press, Chanapat referred to the warning that a group of "violent" people was planning to turn the protest into a confrontation with military and police officers. He refused to reveal the identity of the social figure.

Instead of attempting to stop this third party, he said, the Council for National Security (CNS) and the government made threats to "purely democratic-minded" citizens, who intended to attend the rally on Constitution Day.

Bank accounts of some local politicians have been frozen on the strength of a government claim that they need to be scrutinised, he said.

Given the climate of uncertainly, he has decided to postpone his anti-coup rally until January 6 as he does not want to see any violence occur in the year of His Majesty the King's celebration, he said.

Chanapat's withdrawal followed that of another activist, Theppanom Siriwithayarak, who agreed not to lead anti-coup protesters into Bangkok for tomorrow's rally.

Theppanom's decision came after talks with CNS deputy secretary-general and assistant Army commander General Saprang Kalyanamitr, who had been assigned to mediate with protest leaders.

The absence of the two activists will leave the September 19 Anti-Coup Network as the only group to stage the protest at Sanam Luang.

The group is estimated have up to 1,000 members, mostly young people, graduates and student activists.

Sombat Boonngamanong, a key member of the September 19 group, said it would go ahead and march tomorrow. He accused the groups under the other two activists of having been hired to create confusion among pro-democracy citizens.

"It looks like the action of a hired gun," he said. "But it won't have any impact on our protest as [they] mean nothing to us."

The group will assembly at 4pm at Sanam Luang and march to the Democracy Monument at 6pm.

In the meantime, workers from more than 43 state enterprises will stage a massive rally at the Royal Plaza on Wednesday to press the interim government to cancel privatisation portions of the Act on Capital of State Enterprises 2002.

Source: The Nation - 9 December 2006

[hammered]

A certain individual has been quite active in the Buriram area recently, I shall not name him, neither will I make any claims to knowing the incentive offered for gaining some support.

It has been met with abject apathy.... the locals don't care anymore, are they finally waking up, or, and this would be worse (QED) have they stopped believing in politicians..... or would that be better?

I rather think it would.

If Mr X's approaches in that area have been met with apathy then that is a fairly big development from what I understand. Thanks for the information. It is an area of the country I usually cannot get reliable information about.

[Jai Dee]

PM says postponement of Dec 10 rally a wise decision

The Prime Minister said that the postponement of the December 10 political rally is a wise decision as the nation is still celebrating the meritorious occasion of His Majesty the King's 79th Cycle Birthday.

Prime Minister Surayud Chulanon (สุรยุทธ์ จุลานนท์) said that despite the postponement of the rally, the government, Cabinet and the National Security Council (NSC) will still remain all ears to grievances and will be receptive to open to discussions with the participants. Prime Minister Surayud said that the absence of any conflict during His Majesty the King's 79th Cycle Birthday would be a blessing upon all Thai citizens.

The Prime Minister added that his recent visit to the Office of the Royal Thai Police was meant to receive police progress reports on re-organization of the police institution, in order to hear the opinions of all relevant parties, in preparation for forwarding of the matter to the Ministry of Justice for further consideration.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 09 December 2006

[Jai Dee]

Interior Minister remains silent on the postponement of the Dec 10th demonstration

Interior Minister Aree Wong-araya (อารีย์ วงศ์อารยะ) denied to comment on the postponement of the Dec 10th demonstration, while stating that every action must go in line with laws and should not cause conflicts within the nation.

The denial came after the People’s Alliance for Democracy has put off its demonstration planned on December 10th to a new date of January 6th. Mr. Aree said that the government will look into the rally’s purpose and action, all of which should be within legal framework.

The Minister affirmed that the Interior Ministry does not prohibit demonstrations, but all sides should take into consideration national peace and harmony.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 09 December 2006

[chownah]

It wasn't their desire to assemble in the first place. Or would you call a mob around Nation offices who thought they were protesting against a battery company an expression of democratic aspirations, too?

This kind of argument is insulting to anyone's intellegence.

There's no right to create fake demonstrations, and if it threatens nation's stability, then it's explicitly forbidden, even under democartic constitution.

No one is stopping people demonstrating in good faith, even under martial law there were allowed to express themselves.

You wrote: "This kind of argument is insulting to anyone's intellegence."

I suggest you look into a mirror and repeat these words three times.

You are demonstrating quite clearly that you do not understand the concept of freedom of assembly.

Chownah

[ColPyat]

Number of protesters grows to 3,000

The number of protesters against the coup grew to about 3,000 when the protesters marched from Sanam Luang to the Democracy Monument Sunday evening.

The protesters demanded the government to lift the martial law around the country immediately.

The government plans to lift the martial law in 41 provinces and the lifting is pending a loyal endorsement.

The Nation

Well, sort of.

It was just about a thousand.

And the protestors have a few more demands.

[Plus]

Oh, now we found someone who genuinely believes that drunken yobs at The Nation's offices were "demonstrating".

Demonstrating absurdity of the situation, not the right to assembly.

>>>>>>>>>>>

People are supposed to support their candidates, not the other way around. Politicians are not supposed to pay their supporters to attend their rallies.

That's exactly what was wrong with that TRT mass rally. If people can't afford coming to Bangkok to show support for Thaksin, he shouldn't pretend that there are hundreds of thousands of them. They can always demonstrate in their hometowns if they want to, for free.

But I suspect they wouldn't bother unless paid and fed.

I don't understand how some "progressive" minds here can advocate this disgusting practice of modern day slavery - how many voters can you buy? Thaksin has bought half the country from all kinds of little local scoundrels.

And now we are arguing that demonstrating these "goods" is an intrinsic democratic right.

[ColPyat]

And i think you should look up the defintions of a few terms you have very mistakenly used:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/demonstrating

4. demonstrate - march in protest; take part in a demonstration; "Thousands demonstrated against globalization during the meeting of the most powerful economic nations in Seattle"

Doesn't qualify the term as you seem to do.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/slavery

slav·er·y Pronunciation (slv-r, slvr)

n. pl. slav·er·ies

1. The state of one bound in servitude as the property of a slaveholder or household.

2.

a. The practice of owning slaves.

b. A mode of production in which slaves constitute the principal work force.

3. The condition of being subject or addicted to a specified influence.

4. A condition of hard work and subjection: wage slavery.

Sorry, can't find where 'vote buying' fits into any of the definitions, as this is a purely volontary act. 'Vote buying' and its effects are anyhow a bit over rated, but its makes for strong speaches when one has no real issues to talk about.

[JacknDanny]

And i think you should look up the defintions of a few terms you have very mistakenly used:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/demonstrating

4. demonstrate - march in protest; take part in a demonstration; "Thousands demonstrated against globalization during the meeting of the most powerful economic nations in Seattle"

Doesn't qualify the term as you seem to do.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/slavery

slav·er·y Pronunciation (slv-r, slvr)

n. pl. slav·er·ies

1. The state of one bound in servitude as the property of a slaveholder or household.

2.

a. The practice of owning slaves.

b. A mode of production in which slaves constitute the principal work force.

3. The condition of being subject or addicted to a specified influence.

4. A condition of hard work and subjection: wage slavery.

Sorry, can't find where 'vote buying' fits into any of the definitions, as this is a purely volontary act. 'Vote buying' and its effects are anyhow a bit over rated, but its makes for strong speaches when one has no real issues to talk about.

[JacknDanny]

And i think you should look up the defintions of a few terms you have very mistakenly used:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/demonstrating

4. demonstrate - march in protest; take part in a demonstration; "Thousands demonstrated against globalization during the meeting of the most powerful economic nations in Seattle"

Doesn't qualify the term as you seem to do.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/slavery

slav·er·y Pronunciation (slv-r, slvr)

n. pl. slav·er·ies

1. The state of one bound in servitude as the property of a slaveholder or household.

2.

a. The practice of owning slaves.

b. A mode of production in which slaves constitute the principal work force.

3. The condition of being subject or addicted to a specified influence.

4. A condition of hard work and subjection: wage slavery.

Sorry, can't find where 'vote buying' fits into any of the definitions, as this is a purely volontary act. 'Vote buying' and its effects are anyhow a bit over rated, but its makes for strong speaches when one has no real issues to talk about.

Col Pyat, you are very brave quoting Dictionary websites. You seem to have grasped 'meanings' but havent quite got 'spelling' just yet.

Also I think number 3) above seems to fit quite well into what Plus is saying about Thaksin being the influence and these poor sods following him like The Pied Piper of Hamlin

[Plus]

Vote buying is overrated? What makes you think so? Your blind, unexplicable faith in political activism of rural voters? Even in examplary western democracies 50% of people don't care about politics and don't vote. Maybe 80% or Thais wouldn't either if it wasn't in the law and they were left alone by politicians needing to buy their votes.

What makes you think that Thai rural folks are as ideologically driven as you?

[sriracha john]

Thaksin tells military not to accuse him

Noppadol Pattama, legal aide to ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra , denied his boss was involved in financing political movements inside Thailand from his overseas exile, claiming the family's assets are still in Thailand.

Mr Thaksin - so his lawyer said - urged "high-ranking soldiers" to watch their mouths :D when accusing him of financing political undercurrents against the government and the Council for National Security.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/topstories.php?id=114908

[sriracha john]

Noppadol Pattama said he had discussed the matter with Mr Thaksin, now staying in Beijing, and was told by the former premier that he had never given financial support to activist groups.

The former prime minister said he would prefer to rest and read. :D

When asked whether Mr Thaksin was worried that his assets might be frozen by the current government with an aim to cut financial support to activist groups, Mr Noppadol said the premier's assets--including houses, cars and cash earned from selling Ample Rich shares--were now still in Thailand.

- MCOT

[ColPyat]

Vote buying is overrated? What makes you think so? Your blind, unexplicable faith in political activism of rural voters? Even in examplary western democracies 50% of people don't care about politics and don't vote. Maybe 80% or Thais wouldn't either if it wasn't in the law and they were left alone by politicians needing to buy their votes.

What makes you think that Thai rural folks are as ideologically driven as you?

It might be nice if you would see beyond your nose.

I collect facts and evidence, i do read studies, and judge according to those. You have demonstrated plenty times that you have certain problems with definitions, so yes, poster 'Plus' may call that "ideology".

And no, villagers are hardly driven by what i would define as ideology. The decide, as most of humanity does, by what a politician can do for them. If money offered by politicians, they will take it (even H.M. the King has in a birthday speach many years ago joked about the issue - saying that if money offered, the should take it, and vote for whomever they want. But i guess that was before your time).

Anyhow, no doubt that TRT had plenty of funds for vote buying, as had every party in Thailand. It may have been before your time, again, but there was not a single large party in Thailand that had not been caught out in buying votes (without delivering anything more than the few hundred baht they paid for the votes).

The difference though with TRT was, that in addidtion to the traditional vote buying here, they have given more to the villagers in state funded programs than any other party before. I know that you call that vote buying as well (we have been at this point already), but fact is, that development has to be paid for, and has to be implemented by the government.

We can argue about the long term effects of TRT populist policies, and i have often posted here why i believe most of the TRT programs were in the long term counter productive and even harmful. But the basic system of funding developent programs at least partially by taxes, regardless of the rich and middle classes paying most, is a very common system all around the world.

Or do you suggest that tax money is only spent for the ones who pay most taxes, and the rest of the population should be happy that they are allowed to be poor and under developed?

No, vote buying is a minor issue. The issue is what the government delivers. Unfortunately the TRT government has delivered more to the rural poor than any previous government in Thailand. Of course it was self serving (which government is not to some degree?), and could have been far more, should be far more in the future by whatever government is going to come.

Nevertheless, i fear that the time is over in Thailand that the rural poor accept the old system of governments not doing anything for them, and letting them just fence for themselves. Any government from now on is going to be measured by what they deliver.

That is maybe the only good thing that came out of the TRT government. Less and less people even upcountry will be content with the old status quo.

And that, coming back to the topic, is what the present government, and the social forces behind it, are most terrified off. They know that the only avenue for the people to voice their opinion is presently to demonstrate.

That is why they do openly hat they have accused TRT of doing - blocking upcountry people from joining demonstrations, and try to blame all on the "Thaksin network" paying people to demonstrate.

Only a fool who believes this simplistic propaganda.

There is no evidence that this happening right now.

[ColPyat]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/12/11...es_30021235.php

PROTEST AGAINST COUP

Junta 'curbing liberties'

Demonstrators demand end to martial law as police stop people joining rally

Rights activists yesterday condemned junta "harassment" of anti-coup protesters who were prevented from travelling to Bangkok to join a demonstration at Sanam Luang.

"This action is the most concrete evidence yet of junta curbs on people's rights and liberties," September 19 Network Against the Coup organiser Chotisak Onsoong told The Nation.

"It reveals both the junta's dictatorial nature and the fact it's afraid of people power.

"The junta says a poll shows it has 80-per-cent support. If that's so, it doesn't need to worry. But I don't think that's true."

Some 1,000 people gathered at Sanam Luang in the afternoon before marching to Democracy Monument to mark Constitution Day and World Human Rights Day. There, numbers swelled to about 3,000 in the evening. Candles were lit as darkness fell.

There was a large police and military presence.

Protesters shouted "CNS, get out. CNS, get out". The CNS is the Council for National Security - the group of military leaders who overthrew the government of Thaksin Shinawatra in September.

The demonstration was reminiscent of rallies ahead of Thaksin's downfall when the catch call was "Thaksin, get out".

Demonstrators demanded the immediate lifting of martial law throughout the country.

There was traffic congestion near the monument as leaders addressed marchers from the rear of a lorry. A stage occupied two lanes near the monument.

Organisers promised Sanam Luang rallies every Sunday from now.

A 40-year-old Bangkok housewife identified as Kaew said she and her family marched because they disagreed with limits on freedoms and martial law.

Buri Ram police intercepted and detained 41 men dressed in black who were heading for yesterday's Bangkok demonstration.

They were taken to a police

station where their details were taken. They were then encouraged not to attend the demonstration. Four vehicles were confiscated.

Thailand has been without a constitution since the junta nullified the 1997 charter - known as the People's Constitution - following the September coup.

Half a dozen other groups, including the Confederation for Democracy, joined the network rally.

Demonstrators carried posters and banners condemning the junta. Many wore black shirts and armbands.

"Does the military belong to the nation or the nation belong to the military?" was one demonstration slogan. Another read: "People's war has begun - recruit your men and wait for the right opportunity."

"If people have no right to wear black or travel freely, then it's worse than a communist state," said former senator Prateep Ungsongtham Hata, a key member of the confederation, which has united with the network.

"If you want democracy, you must create a democratic climate. That's not what we've got. Why bring 1,800 soldiers on to the streets or move the third Army to Bangkok to control the people? What for? This is not a democracy," said confederation chairperson Weng Tojirakarnsaid.

Protesters addressed the crowd before the march to Democracy Monument at 6.30pm.

Members of the news media and academics who had accepted appointments to the National Legislative Assembly were criticised in speeches.

"These are people who help and serve dictators, the goons who rob us of democracy," network member and former student leader Pongsathon Sornpetnarin said.

"They're not just dragging us back into the past but into the dark ages."

Demonstrators dispersed at about 8.30pm.

In a related development, an Assembly of the Poor statement condemned police harassment of dozens of villagers who had met to discuss problems in Si Sa Ket. The villagers were questioned and had their details taken.

"Politics of the poor have been denied and the right to bargain with the state to solve problems has been eradicated," yesterday's statement said.

"The smoke of martial law is still smouldering in the rural provinces and it's full of the suppression of rights and liberty."

The assembly urged the government to accept the right of the poor to congregate to discuss concerns of the group.

The plight of the poor must be "considered part of political reform", the statement said.

Pravit Rojanaphruk,

Subhatra Bhumiprabhas

The Nation

[sriracha john]

so, I guess 30,000 people didn't show up.... is that what is to be gleaned by this event?

Edited December 10, 2006 by sriracha john

[sriracha john]

doubled up post

Edited December 10, 2006 by sriracha john

[lukamar]

so, I guess 30,000 people didn't show up.... is that what is to be gleaned by this event?

Maybe 30,000 were "persuaded" not to attend. And with a highly revered unnamed person, like we don't know who that is, managing to cut an 11th hour deal with one group not to go, possibly there were others. One thing is for certain, there were substantially more people at the latest rally than at the ones in near past and it is safe to assume that the numbers will escalate in the future.

There is so much misinformation and propaganda circulating it is hard to sort out the facts but a couple of things are a certainty. It's been a long wet winter and it will be even a longer hotter summer if peoples rights are continually trampled on.

[ColPyat]

Maybe 30,000 were "persuaded" not to attend. And with a highly revered unnamed person, like we don't know who that is, managing to cut an 11th hour deal with one group not to go, possibly there were others. One thing is for certain, there were substantially more people at the latest rally than at the ones in near past and it is safe to assume that the numbers will escalate in the future.

The 30 000 claim was made only by Chanapath Na Nakhorn, who seems to be completely discredited by his own group as well, and not just because of this outlandish claim. The so called "phone call" is generally not believed. It is safe to assume that Chanapath is not going to play much of a role in the future of the protests.

But it is assumed that the number of protestors will most definately rise in the coming months.

[hammered]

It is good that the rally passed peacefully and that it was allowed to go ahead. Positive all round.

On speculation about numbers my wife who is actually involved with pro-democracy groups was telling me that at the moment there was little desire for protests, and that the groups we have debated over the past few weeks had not really appealed to many in and around Bangkok where demonstrations garner most support. She also spoke to family memebers up in the northern Region. A few who had been big Thaksin supporters had been offered money and a trip to Bangkok, but had refused. Apparently the attempts to pay people to go had mostly been turned down, surprising the money offerers and leaving those offering the money having to abandon their efforts. As one family member put it: "If we go down there and there is trouble no doubt we will just be abandoned and left to find our own way home. Better not to go".

From this little snapshot it looks like the protest groups will be relying on the Bankokians and those from other surrounding provinces.

[sriracha john]

so, I guess 30,000 people didn't show up.... is that what is to be gleaned by this event?

Maybe 30,000 were "persuaded" not to attend.

Yeah, that happens when the organizer in the OP cancels his group's participation.

[sriracha john]

She also spoke to family memebers up in the northern Region. A few who had been big Thaksin supporters had been offered money and a trip to Bangkok, but had refused. Apparently the attempts to pay people to go had mostly been turned down, surprising the money offerers and leaving those offering the money having to abandon their efforts. As one family member put it: "If we go down there and there is trouble no doubt we will just be abandoned and left to find our own way home. Better not to go".

Always appreciate the reports from "on the ground."

It's encouraging that people are making more educated decisions. It is, however, stressing that the government's concerns about these paid-for participants is verified. It seems their worries are confirmed.

[ColPyat]

A few who had been big Thaksin supporters had been offered money and a trip to Bangkok, but had refused. Apparently the attempts to pay people to go had mostly been turned down, surprising the money offerers and leaving those offering the money having to abandon their efforts.

This does in some way confirm my point that money was/is not the deciding factor for people to join demonstrations or not, only an added incentitive for supporting a cause that they do support anyhow. And it does very much fit into my experience from my wife's village where only people who supported TRT were given money, and people such as my own immediate family, who were known not to support TRT, or any other party in particular, were not bothered in any way.

Your post also shows that people are scared indeed of this government. Which, i believe, is not an ideal situation for reform and reconcialiation.

[sriracha john]

"If we go down there and there is trouble no doubt we will just be abandoned and left to find our own way home. Better not to go".

That really emphasizes that average citizens are fearful of another other type of paid-for participants, aka thugs/goons, of causing trouble.

[Siripon]

so, I guess 30,000 people didn't show up.... is that what is to be gleaned by this event?

Maybe 30,000 were "persuaded" not to attend. And with a highly revered unnamed person, like we don't know who that is, managing to cut an 11th hour deal with one group not to go, possibly there were others. One thing is for certain, there were substantially more people at the latest rally than at the ones in near past and it is safe to assume that the numbers will escalate in the future.

There is so much misinformation and propaganda circulating it is hard to sort out the facts but a couple of things are a certainty. It's been a long wet winter and it will be even a longer hotter summer if peoples rights are continually trampled on.

It's only going to be a long winter for those of us, and I guess it's only a few TV members, who reside in Canada. For the rest of us winter has hardly begun.

The expectations of the public are high for the government:

A new constitutuon with input from all groups in society and loopholes plugged to prevent abuse of power.

Justice under the law, whether it's prosecution of Inland Revenue civil servants for double standards or police involved in extra judicial killings.

Reform of the police with decentralisation a main feature.

Educating the 30 million Thai people who gamble to play the lottery wisely.

Civil society is strong these days, the junta have made clear deadlines for their goals, even Newin said what's a year.

I notice the polls show support is still strong for the junta. I believe that will continue if they stay on course.

[ColPyat]

It's only going to be a long winter for those of us, and I guess it's only a few TV members, who reside in Canada. For the rest of us winter has hardly begun.

The expectations of the public are high for the government:

A new constitutuon with input from all groups in society and loopholes plugged to prevent abuse of power.

Justice under the law, whether it's prosecution of Inland Revenue civil servants for double standards or police involved in extra judicial killings.

Reform of the police with decentralisation a main feature.

Educating the 30 million Thai people who gamble to play the lottery wisely.

Civil society is strong these days, the junta have made clear deadlines for their goals, even Newin said what's a year.

I notice the polls show support is still strong for the junta. I believe that will continue if they stay on course.

Very optimistic you are.

What, by the way, do you make out of the anti immigrant labour tirades of your favourite party, the democrats? Doesn't really sound like a policy i at least would like to be identified with. Where i come from those sort of policies are associated with the rants of the lunatic right wing fringe.

[Siripon]

It's only going to be a long winter for those of us, and I guess it's only a few TV members, who reside in Canada. For the rest of us winter has hardly begun.

The expectations of the public are high for the government:

A new constitutuon with input from all groups in society and loopholes plugged to prevent abuse of power.

Justice under the law, whether it's prosecution of Inland Revenue civil servants for double standards or police involved in extra judicial killings.

Reform of the police with decentralisation a main feature.

Educating the 30 million Thai people who gamble to play the lottery wisely.

Civil society is strong these days, the junta have made clear deadlines for their goals, even Newin said what's a year.

I notice the polls show support is still strong for the junta. I believe that will continue if they stay on course.

Very optimistic you are.

What, by the way, do you make out of the anti immigrant labour tirades of your favourite party, the democrats? Doesn't really sound like a policy i at least would like to be identified with. Where i come from those sort of policies are associated with the rants of the lunatic right wing fringe.

I'm not being optimistic, just saying what the middle class expect.

Regarding Pongsak, a minor figure in the Democrats, every party worth its size has a few 'loose cannons', it's by no means party policy.

Edited December 11, 2006 by Siripon

[Plus]

So people were offered money as usual but they decided not to go, apparently for safety reasons.

That shows how money is not important when people support a cause they believe in. Acc. to Bangkok Post only a thousand people showed up, for the cause.

Where are the other 299,000 original supporters from March 3 demonstration? They were not in it for the money, as Colpyat is trying to convince us, but fot the cause.

Where did their cause disappear?

Or was it really there? Ever.

This thread is about December 10 demonstration. Vote buying networks and bused in supporters are a big deciding factor in how much people could show up. If they could really manage to bring in 30,000, newspapers would be singing completely different tunes today.

So yes, vote buying is important. It's not overrated. It might look small in overall political life of the past two decades. One can even make it microsopic by looking it from world history point of view.

The fact that the generals managed to derail those 30,000 paid protesters from showing up meant a lot for the peace in this country.

I seriously doubt that real protesters can keep momentum and maintain their numbers. Rejecting the unwritten Constitution will not get them anywhere. Lost case (and lost cause). They might get better results if they tried to propose realistic solutions. People would listen, even the generals would listen if they talked sense.

>>>>>>>>>>>

Lukamar is writing to us from the future, where the long, wet winter is over. I'm pretty sure they are not expecting scorching hot summer tomorrow even in Canada.

[ColPyat]

The fact that the generals managed to derail those 30,000 paid protesters from showing up meant a lot for the peace in this country.

I seriously doubt that real protesters can keep momentum and maintain their numbers. Rejecting the unwritten Constitution will not get them anywhere. Lost case (and lost cause). They might get better results if they tried to propose realistic solutions. People would listen, even the generals would listen if they talked sense.

Well, so far the protests have only been rising in size, steadily. Now it was 1000, that was double the size of the protest only two weeks ago. We will wait and see if it picks up momentum. I believe so, and every police officer i have spoken with does so as well. Obviously i cannot give you proof, so right now it is moot to debate it. Future will tell.

Upcountry people who wanted to join were turned back, one group we know off even arrested for a few hours. I have difficulties to believe that you simply brush it aside by reasoning that they were "paid" without any proof whatsoever, and therefore justify the same action that you accused Thaksin of doing. Interesting that one of the fiercest defenders of democracy only a few months ago defends dictatorial actions of an unelected government he supports.

Would you have said the same thing - that Thaksin has done a lot for peace in this country - if he would have "derailed" that amount of PAD supporters with the same tactics? I very much doubt so.

Selective hypocracy.

Incredible that you are still hung up on that 30 000 figure even though it was only claimed by one single person, a person whose own group has even left him. Even more baffling is your complete lack of information, even though it was clearly spelled out in the papers as well - the man who claimed to bring 30 000 supporters on the streets, Chanapath Na Nakhorn, has no relationship with yesterday's main protest organiser - the 19th Sept. Network.

And to know if "they talk sense" you should have a look at one of their demonstrations or meetings. I hope you do speak Thai, in order to find out.

Some even internationally very respected people in Thai society were attending, even speaking, such as Prateep Ungsongtham Hata - founder of Duang Prateep foundation and former senator, or Dr. Weng Tojirakarn, even Supinya was attending - the reporter who was sued by Thaksin for millions.

Maybe it might be time for you to seriously question your rather simpleminded illusions on Thailand's political landscape.