France warns UK premier of tough time ahead in Brexit talks

[webfact]

France warns UK premier of tough time ahead in Brexit talks

By RAF CASERT

 

BRUSSELS (AP) — France warned British Prime Minister Theresa May at her maiden European Union summit that she would face a tough, unyielding bloc if she sought too many concessions during the negotiations to leave the 28-nation EU.

 

May briefed her European counterparts on the exit road for Britain and left leaders with many uncertainties about the divorce because Britain has yet to trigger the two-year negotiations for "Brexit" — and confirmed she is unlikely to do so until the end of March.

 

"It's in the interests of the U.K. and the EU that we continue to work closely together," said May, who immediately faced opposition.

French President Francois Hollande insisted that the EU would not surrender the bloc's core values just to keep Britain close as a future ally.

 

"I have said so very firmly: Mrs. Theresa May wants a hard Brexit? The negotiations will be hard," Holland said.

 

German Chancellor Angela Merkel also chimed in saying that "In practice, that will be a tough road."

 

Britain's June 23 breakup referendum has forced the 27 other nations to plot their future without a major but often recalcitrant member state. European leaders have grumbled that Britain's tardiness in starting the negotiations slow down their own planning for the next few years.

 

Merkel said the other leaders would underscore the urgency and would "make clear again: We are waiting for the notification from Britain."

 

The 27 leaders already had their first summit without Britain in Bratislava last month. May told the leaders Thursday they had to realize that even if they all agreed on issues they should not expect Britain to automatically jump on board at official summits of 28.

 

Once May activates the exit clause — Article 50 in the EU's governing Lisbon Treaty — negotiations on the terms of Britain's departure would run for two years. The time frame could be extended, but only if the 27 remaining member states agree unanimously.

 

The Brexit referendum to leave the EU was a milestone in the history of the bloc and the disentanglement is expected to be long, difficult and confrontational.

 

Still, EU President Donald Tusk, who chairs the summit, reiterated that Britain could still reconsider when asked if May could still turn back the clock. "If it is reversible or not, it is in the British hands. I will be the happiest one if it is reversible."

 

He said that he hoped "she will also realize that the European Union is simply the best company in the world."

 

May said Britain would continue to be a responsible member right up to the day it leaves the EU. "I'm here with a very clear message. The U.K. is leaving the EU but we will continue to play a full role until we leave."

 

Like Hollande, Tusk vowed last week not to compromise on the bloc's principles in negotiating Britain's departure and warned that London is heading for a hard exit.

 

He insisted that Britain can't hope to both stay in Europe's single market of seamless business and restrict the movement of EU migrants, saying there would be no compromises.

 

May has appeared to signal that her government would prioritize controls on immigration over access to the European single market, an approach informally called a "hard Brexit."

 

EU Parliament President Martin Schulz said Thursday that the bloc's fundamental freedoms "are inseparable."

 

"I refuse to imagine a Europe where lorries and hedge funds are free to cross borders, but citizens are not," Schulz said.

 

-- © Associated Press 2016-10-21

[SgtRock]

Hollande is now as irrelevant as a fart in space.

 

He is marking time until he gets the boot in 2017.

 

He can pretty much say what he likes.

 

It is what his successor has to say that matters.

[Laughing Gravy]

Of course he does. He will not have a job next year. I am looking forward to people arguing that fact.

Saying drivel like this is the only thing that gets Hollande on the front pages anymore.

 

Merkel will also be gone so TM, rightly so, should ignore them, as she will have to make deals with new people in power.

[petermik]

Ah the love of everything British by France comes to the fore once more............

[JAG]

After dinner M. Hollande retreated to the battlements, shouting about elderberries and hamsters. .

 

Edited October 21, 2016 by JAG

[arithai12]

7 hours ago, SgtRock said:

Hollande is now as irrelevant as a fart in space.

 

He is marking time until he gets the boot in 2017.

 

He can pretty much say what he likes.

 

It is what his successor has to say that matters.

 

Sure, Hollande might be gone before Brexit is done, but he is only saying what the french voters want to hear, and the one after him will not say or do differently.

[elgordo38]

7 hours ago, SgtRock said:

Hollande is now as irrelevant as a fart in space.

 

He is marking time until he gets the boot in 2017.

 

He can pretty much say what he likes.

 

It is what his successor has to say that matters.

Going out in a blaze of glory headed for the trough of big business. Its a right of passage for a  politician. I think in the end the EU needs the UK more than the other way around. The EU is on its last legs as right wingers are popping up all over thanks to the avalanche of refugees. This is the last straw that RW's needed. Talk about a self induced collapse thanks Angela. 

[Aforek]

Britain is so slow ( march is far away ) because they are afraid of Brexit; don't cry and complain when you will be  poor and lonely

 the sooner, the better, bye bye Britain

[dunroaming]

Well if Sarkozy gets in he has promised a very hard stance over Britain's exit.  Seems to be the same from Germany.  It is all very well poo-pooing what the EU leaders are saying but they actually hold the cards.  I think that May declared a hard brexit to test the water and get a response.  Well that is what she is getting.  A very long way to go yet!

[Yann55]

7 hours ago, petermik said:

Ah the love of everything British by France comes to the fore once more............

 

... and so does the virulent francophobia of most TVF members, as usual ...

 

Hollande may be on the way out and is certainly a rather pathetic figure but in this case he expresses what most Europeans think. Not just the French. Notwithstanding, the usual French-hating brigade here prefers to attack the person and ridicule him (which is all too easy, that's a given) rather than to acknowledge the fact that Britain has made itself highly unpopular among Europeans, and that there will be consequences for the haughtiness and contempt shown by the British towards their neighbours in the Brexit vote.

 

Nothing new, though. The attitude was there before Brexit, and was epitomized by Thatcher : an interesting mix of shopkeeper mentality and post-Victorian delusions of grandeur.

 

Honestly I feel sorry for the British citizens who are not racist, not europhobic, not anti-French, not hysterically conservative, not under the illusion that the British empire still exists, and who do not think that the Sun is a normal and serious newspaper.

 

Edited October 21, 2016 by Yann55

[ilostmypassword]

2 hours ago, Yann55 said:

 

... and so does the virulent francophobia of most TVF members, as usual ...

 

Hollande may be on the way out and is certainly a rather pathetic figure but in this case he expresses what most Europeans think. Not just the French. Notwithstanding, the usual French-hating brigade here prefers to attack the person and ridicule him (which is all too easy, that's a given) rather than to acknowledge the fact that Britain has made itself highly unpopular among Europeans, and that there will be consequences for the haughtiness and contempt shown by the British towards their neighbours in the Brexit vote.

 

Nothing new, though. The attitude was there before Brexit, and was epitomized by Thatcher : an interesting mix of shopkeeper mentality and post-Victorian delusions of grandeur.

 

Honestly I feel sorry for the British citizens who are not racist, not europhobic, not anti-French, not hysterically conservative, not under the illusion that the British empire still exists, and who do not think that the Sun is a normal and serious newspaper.

 

Even Canada - and who is there who does not love Canada?- is having a very hard time concluding a free trade agreement with the EU. All this thanks to the recalcitrance of one province in Belgium. Somehow, I think that there will be more just one province in the EU resentful of Britain. Remember that approval of any treaty in the EU has to be unanimous.

[nontabury]

 

2 hours ago, Yann55 said:

 

... and so does the virulent francophobia of most TVF members, as usual ...

 

Hollande may be on the way out and is certainly a rather pathetic figure but in this case he expresses what most Europeans think. Not just the French. Notwithstanding, the usual French-hating brigade here prefers to attack the person and ridicule him (which is all too easy, that's a given) rather than to acknowledge the fact that Britain has made itself highly unpopular among Europeans, and that there will be consequences for the haughtiness and contempt shown by the British towards their neighbours in the Brexit vote.

 

Nothing new, though. The attitude was there before Brexit, and was epitomized by Thatcher : an interesting mix of shopkeeper mentality and post-Victorian delusions of grandeur.

 

Honestly I feel sorry for the British citizens who are not racist, not europhobic, not anti-French, not hysterically conservative, not under the illusion that the British empire still exists, and who do not think that the Sun is a normal and serious newspaper.

 

 

  The slagging off continues

Edited October 21, 2016 by nontabury

[SgtRock]

4 hours ago, arithai12 said:

 

Sure, Hollande might be gone before Brexit is done, but he is only saying what the french voters want to hear, and the one after him will not say or do differently.

 

WOW

 

You know the result already ?

 

Dont bet your house on it.

 

One more Jihadi surprise in France and you will lose the lot. Le Pen will romp it.

 

What a calamity that will be for France and the EU.

[SgtRock]

2 hours ago, Yann55 said:

Honestly I feel sorry for the British citizens who are not racist, not europhobic, not anti-French, not hysterically conservative, not under the illusion that the British empire still exists, and who do not think that the Sun is a normal and serious newspaper.

 

You do not get out much do you ?

 

You could have tried a bit harder. You missed out Xenophobic, Islamophobic and a few '' isms ''

 

All terms that have been rendered meaningless by there overuse.

[happy Joe]

10 hours ago, petermik said:

Ah the love of everything British by France comes to the fore once more............

 

They have good reason to hate the Frenchies, and if they know what they really think of them, they would hate so much more.

[ilostmypassword]

11 hours ago, SgtRock said:

Hollande is now as irrelevant as a fart in space.

 

He is marking time until he gets the boot in 2017.

 

He can pretty much say what he likes.

 

It is what his successor has to say that matters.

I notice a continuing confusion here that think there's an important distinction between the leader of Germany (or France or whatever) and the country of Germany. Merkel's position on the UK withdrawal isn't peculiar to her or the conservatives.  It's a widely held belief. The same goes for Hollande and France.  There's this peculiar chauvinistic believe especially among Britons of a certain age, that the somehow enjoys a special prestige which will somehow enable it to overcome the objections to a special of not just however many nations there are in the EU, but in some cases the objections of their provinces. Very unrealistic thinking.

[bangon04]

" France warned British Prime Minister Theresa May at her maiden European Union summit that she would face a tough, unyielding bloc if she sought too many concessions during the negotiations to leave the 28-nation EU. "

 

so more or less the same degree of success David Cameron had last time in his lame "negotiations" before the referendum.

[dunroaming]

The Ukraine negotiated a free trade deal with the EU.  It took seven years and then only delivered a fraction of what they asked for.  The UK one would be far more complicated and probably take as long or longer.  Or I could be completely wrong.  Maybe we should just wait and see?

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

 

  The slagging off continues

How many more times are you going to post that picture of a typical Brexiteer?

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, SgtRock said:

 

You do not get out much do you ?

 

You could have tried a bit harder. You missed out Xenophobic, Islamophobic and a few '' isms ''

 

All terms that have been rendered meaningless by there overuse.

 

Listen to your officers sometimes

 

We are not all fools

 

 

 

 

[gamini]

There is a sharp divide on Brexit by TV members. It seems to be the well educated against the less educated. They should respect each others views, unfortunately the pro brexit seem unable to do this and resort to insults.

 

 

 

[Xircal]

9 hours ago, elgordo38 said:

Going out in a blaze of glory headed for the trough of big business. Its a right of passage for a  politician. I think in the end the EU needs the UK more than the other way around. The EU is on its last legs as right wingers are popping up all over thanks to the avalanche of refugees. This is the last straw that RW's needed. Talk about a self induced collapse thanks Angela. 

 

You have an overactive imagination Elgordo. The EU was alive and well before Britain joined and will remain so after the UK leaves.

 

You talk of the EU as if it's just a collection of bureaucrats located in Brussels. It isn't: it's a area comprising of 27 individual countries which have joined together to form the world's largest trading block of 500 million consumers. These member states are not just going to give up on the project just because one of their number decides to do a runner especially when the errant country goes down the tubes. 

 

It should also be noted that leaving the bloc isn't just a case of negotiating a new trade deal: that will come after Britain leaves and has fallen back on WTO rules: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36678222

 

Having to fall back on WTO rules will also mean that Britain will lose its treasured passporting rights to the single market which represents a significant proportion of its financial services trade; one even larger than that in goods. Also, the derivatives market which is priced in Euros but handled by the City at the moment will have to move to EU shores since the ECB won't allow the market to remain in the City once Britain has left. That alone will cause a significant loss of prestige together with a large number of job losses.

 

We're already seeing a number of firms moving to the EU even before Britain has left and that number will undoubtedly accelerate when it becomes clear what a insignificant little island drifting around the North Atlantic the UK has become.

 

And now it looks like English will soon be dropped as a common language in the EU. Better start brushing up on your knowledge of French.

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2016 by Xircal

[Xircal]

6 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Even Canada - and who is there who does not love Canada?- is having a very hard time concluding a free trade agreement with the EU. All this thanks to the recalcitrance of one province in Belgium. Somehow, I think that there will be more just one province in the EU resentful of Britain. Remember that approval of any treaty in the EU has to be unanimous.

 

I think Wallonia (the Belgium province you referred to) has every right to oppose the trade agreement with Canada because if it were ratified it would place too much power in the hands of investors which could act to the detriment of the actual people who live in a given EU member state.

 

It seems quite ridiculous to me and probably to many others that an investor in Canada would be given the right to decide the nationality of top management in an EU company under the terms of the EU-Canada deal.

 

Do we really want a situation arising whereby multinationals have more power over our lives than the people we elect to run our respective countries? I don't think so.

[Yann55]

6 hours ago, Xircal said:

 

I think Wallonia (the Belgium province you referred to) has every right to oppose the trade agreement with Canada because if it were ratified it would place too much power in the hands of investors which could act to the detriment of the actual people who live in a given EU member state.

 

It seems quite ridiculous to me and probably to many others that an investor in Canada would be given the right to decide the nationality of top management in an EU company under the terms of the EU-Canada deal.

 

Do we really want a situation arising whereby multinationals have more power over our lives than the people we elect to run our respective countries? I don't think so.

 

Exactly, but ... the situation you're refering to is the one we're already in, don't you think ?

 

Sure, in our democracies, it looks like we elect people, but in order to be elected these people must campaign, and  to campaign they must turn to where the money is, because campaigning has become ridiculously expensive. Also, these campaigns are now totally and blatantly about manipulating the voters rather than informing them about a political program, because no ones believes in these programs any more, anyway.

 

In his book called 'The Assault on Reason' (2007), Al Gore paints a rather gloomy and distressing picture of his presidential campaign (in 2000), and admits that the whole 'democratic' system, including of course the elections, is in effect manipulated by big corporations, which are in the hands of a small number of people. He hasn't changed his stance. If you Google 'democracy has been hacked', you will find a very interesting speech he made in April 2015 in front of 400 Berkeley students. Will these young people understand what is at stake here ? Will they try to do something about it, and more importantly, can they do something about it ?

 

I personnally doubt it, unfortunately, because the system has reached a point where it is so deeply and irreversably rigged that many people have begun to see it as normal.

[ilostmypassword]

7 hours ago, Xircal said:

 

I think Wallonia (the Belgium province you referred to) has every right to oppose the trade agreement with Canada because if it were ratified it would place too much power in the hands of investors which could act to the detriment of the actual people who live in a given EU member state.

 

It seems quite ridiculous to me and probably to many others that an investor in Canada would be given the right to decide the nationality of top management in an EU company under the terms of the EU-Canada deal.

 

Do we really want a situation arising whereby multinationals have more power over our lives than the people we elect to run our respective countries? I don't think so.

I agree.  So when you read some people posting who say what Germany wants, Germany gets, you now have evidence to the contrary.All those Brexiters who believe that Germany can have its way and give the UK unfettered access to the EU market had better think again.

[Grubster]

I am a yank, and won't blame you if you tell me to bud out but I really don't blame GB for the brexit as the influx of foreigners, and outflow of jobs was not under their control. Most of my Brit friends have told me horror stories of the decline in standard of living there, rivaling America's. People only want what they had, but the powers that be think that you and I are the scum under their shoe.

[Retiredandhappyhere]

Some people forget that a "hard" Brexit will be hard on the EU too.   It will not only affect Britain.   It is true that the "leaders" of the other 27 countries all seem to be in favour of the EU and even possibly in favour of the proposed eventual United States of Europe, but how many of these leaders are sufficiently sure of their ground to be prepared to put it to a vote (referendum) of their people?  Remember that prior to the British referendum, very few "experts" and very few British "leaders" thought that Brexit could win.

[elgordo38]

21 hours ago, Aforek said:

Britain is so slow ( march is far away ) because they are afraid of Brexit; don't cry and complain when you will be  poor and lonely

 the sooner, the better, bye bye Britain

Don't be surprised when all is said and done and history does its thing that between the EU and the UK the UK will be the last man standing. Even the father of the EU says the system is flawed and was from the very beginning. Different cultures different mindsets all thrown into a boiling cauldron and stirred vigorously. You get a "they speak in tongues" result. 

[kannot]

On 10/21/2016 at 10:43 AM, JAG said:

After dinner M. Hollande retreated to the battlements, shouting about elderberries and hamsters. .

 

 

[JAG]

On 21/10/2016 at 4:19 PM, arithai12 said:

 

Sure, Hollande might be gone before Brexit is done, but he is only saying what the french voters want to hear, and the one after him will not say or do differently.

 

On 21/10/2016 at 4:20 PM, elgordo38 said:

Going out in a blaze of glory headed for the trough of big business. Its a right of passage for a  politician. I think in the end the EU needs the UK more than the other way around. The EU is on its last legs as right wingers are popping up all over thanks to the avalanche of refugees. This is the last straw that RW's needed. Talk about a self induced collapse thanks Angela. 

 

22 hours ago, Yann55 said:

 

... and so does the virulent francophobia of most TVF members, as usual ...

 

Hollande may be on the way out and is certainly a rather pathetic figure but in this case he expresses what most Europeans think. Not just the French. Notwithstanding, the usual French-hating brigade here prefers to attack the person and ridicule him (which is all too easy, that's a given) rather than to acknowledge the fact that Britain has made itself highly unpopular among Europeans, and that there will be consequences for the haughtiness and contempt shown by the British towards their neighbours in the Brexit vote.

 

Nothing new, though. The attitude was there before Brexit, and was epitomized by Thatcher : an interesting mix of shopkeeper mentality and post-Victorian delusions of grandeur.

 

Honestly I feel sorry for the British citizens who are not racist, not europhobic, not anti-French, not hysterically conservative, not under the illusion that the British empire still exists, and who do not think that the Sun is a normal and serious newspaper.

 

And there are three jolly good reasons for leaving the EU.

 

Now of course many may regards us as rats, well remember, rats know when it is time to leave a sinking ship.

Edited October 22, 2016 by JAG