aright Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Has the EU's party already started? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/19/merkels-premiership-appears-shaky-coalition-talks-miss-deadline/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talahtnut Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 22 hours ago, AlexRich said: After they've paid off the EU, there might not be much left in the party kitty? If the eu pays back what the owe us..Champagne all round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyf Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 21 hours ago, aright said: But iyo you can penalise popular democracy (for that read the country) and the millions of people who voted to leave because you didn't like the result. What I think of the result is totally immaterial and as for 'popular democracy', nothing more than a brexiteer myth. There has only ever been three national referendums and only one with a contentious result. One swallow does not a summer make. At the end of the day the only thing that matters is what is beneficial to the UK population as a whole and if David Cameron had put into essential services before the referendum what Teresa May has wasted on the brexit fiasco, there wouldn't be this seven hundred and odd pages of divisive comments. The cost of trying to circumvent parliamentary democracy would have put a fairly big grin on the faces of many a doctor and nurse. When TM said 'brexit means brexit' , she failed to tell the population exactly what that was going to cost them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talahtnut Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) On 11/19/2017 at 9:56 AM, aright said: You always were susceptible to Game Pie. Roast Grouse Edited November 20, 2017 by talahtnut missing word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyf Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 The elephant in the room. The Irish Prime Minister has set Theresa May a one-month deadline to explain how she will avoid a damaging hard border with Northern Ireland, or the EU will block Brexit trade talks. Leo Varadkar dismissed Ms May’s claim that negotiations on the future land border are “almost there” as “wishful thinking”, at a breakfast meeting. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-irish-prime-minister-leo-varadkar-ireland-border-clarity-theresa-may-trade-talks-block-a8060046.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyf Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Possibly a bigger elephant. “Our results provide compelling evidence that, so far, UK households are paying an economic price for voting to leave the EU.” http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-800-worse-off-households-food-poverty-inflation-a8064286.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talahtnut Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 15 hours ago, sandyf said: worse-off-households-food-poverty-inflation- The English working class has known nothing else for millennia. UK news media is full of propaganda, lies, and trivia. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post aright Posted November 20, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted November 20, 2017 2 hours ago, sandyf said: What I think of the result is totally immaterial and as for 'popular democracy', nothing more than a brexiteer myth. There has only ever been three national referendums and only one with a contentious result. One swallow does not a summer make. At the end of the day the only thing that matters is what is beneficial to the UK population as a whole and if David Cameron had put into essential services before the referendum what Teresa May has wasted on the brexit fiasco, there wouldn't be this seven hundred and odd pages of divisive comments. The cost of trying to circumvent parliamentary democracy would have put a fairly big grin on the faces of many a doctor and nurse. When TM said 'brexit means brexit' , she failed to tell the population exactly what that was going to cost them. Past referenda have no bearing on the last one. They are yesterday's politics You are right, what you think of the result is totally irrelevant. Unfortunately what you have not learnt however is to respect the result which is effectively the will of over 17million people for change. Is the lack of respect bought about as a result of class? Your views on Brexit are subjective and don't override the views of 17 million voters. As far as David Cameron is concerned, while he is open to criticism, he is yesterdays man, stop thinking backwards, it's not helpful! Blame anyone you like for the result but it alters nothing.The decision has been made. The so called "Popular Democracy", your Brexiteer myth, has turned European politics upside down, as a result of which many right wing groups (some nasty) have come to the fore. Angela Merkel has not been able to form a government as a result of "Popular Democracy" "Popular Democracy" is such a myth the USA has created a web site ? https://populardemocracy.org/ 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 2 hours ago, talahtnut said: The English working class has known nothing else for millennia. UK news media is full of propaganda, lies, and trivia. Fortunately we have your contribution as an alternative shining beacon of light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post aright Posted November 20, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted November 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, SheungWan said: Fortunately we have your contribution as an alternative shining beacon of light. Unfortunately , beyond criticism and belittlement, you seem unable to shine a light on anything. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khun Han Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, SheungWan said: Fortunately we have your contribution as an alternative shining beacon of light. Meaow! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 3 hours ago, aright said: Has the EU's party already started? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/19/merkels-premiership-appears-shaky-coalition-talks-miss-deadline/ Much as I admire Merkel, I think the way their coalition system operates is far superior to our own as it forces consensus between different parties representing different view points. I feel quite disenfranchised in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, Grouse said: Much as I admire Merkel, I think the way their coalition system operates is far superior to our own as it forces consensus between different parties representing different view points. I feel quite disenfranchised in the UK. It might force another election too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 26 minutes ago, nauseus said: It might force another election too! Yes indeed We should have the same in U.K. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talahtnut Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 15 hours ago, SheungWan said: Fortunately we have your contribution as an alternative shining beacon of light. 15 hours ago, SheungWan said: 18 hours ago, talahtnut said: The English working class has known nothing else for millennia. UK news media is full of propaganda, lies, and trivia. Fortunately we have your contribution as an alternative shining beacon of light. A truly inspiring comment..radiating like a Toc H lamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aright Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, Grouse said: Yes indeed We should have the same in U.K. ? Yes! Prime Minister Rees-Mogg has nice cadence don't you think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRich Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 4 hours ago, talahtnut said: If the eu pays back what the owe us..Champagne all round. The EU bill is real, and a big sum of money that no one mentioned at the referendum will be paid, wiping out any so-called "savings for the NHS" for 5 or 6 years ... "what they owe us" is a fiction, no money will ever be received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post nauseus Posted November 20, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted November 20, 2017 6 minutes ago, AlexRich said: The EU bill is real, and a big sum of money that no one mentioned at the referendum will be paid, wiping out any so-called "savings for the NHS" for 5 or 6 years ... "what they owe us" is a fiction, no money will ever be received. Ah, someone in the know, at last! So how much does the UK actually owe and how is that sum calculated? We'd all love to know. Thanks in advance. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jip99 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 4 hours ago, sandyf said: From previous posts. "lose the chip on your shoulder <deleted>!" "<deleted>, get a grip........... I am surprised to find someone as old as you who is so undemocratic." You don't see that as personal?, and the fact that I do not believe that national referendums have any real validity in UK politics does not make me undemocratic. I subscribe to the parliamentary democracy that exists in the UK. When Cameron (on behalf of parliament) said that the referendum result would be binding, I believed him. Not personal, I believe you have a chip... The deleted part was simply an exclamation, not insult, but the editor deletes f - f - s 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talahtnut Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 15 hours ago, AlexRich said: The EU bill is real, and a big sum of money that no one mentioned at the referendum will be paid, wiping out any so-called "savings for the NHS" for 5 or 6 years ... "what they owe us" is a fiction, no money will ever be received. Can I ask you why we owe the EU a big bill. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRich Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, nauseus said: Ah, someone in the know, at last! So how much does the UK actually owe and how is that sum calculated? We'd all love to know. Thanks in advance. I'd bet that the UK will pay north of £40bn, possibly more. The sum will be made up of a whole series of contracts and commitments, with discounts applied ... a political settlement if you like. Now you can argue about the fairness or otherwise all day for the rest of your life, but that is the reality of the situation. This will wipe out any of the so-called "savings" for many years, and in return we'll get less than we have currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, talahtnut said: Can I ask you why we owe the EU a big bill. Covered in the 700+ pages of previous posts. But a quick google search gives this background: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-14/brexit-s-costs-and-whether-britain-will-pay-up-quicktake-q-a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRich Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, talahtnut said: Can I ask you why we owe the EU a big bill. There are some genuine commitments that the UK has signed up to ... employee pension rights, building leases, programme funding, for example. But no one mentioned any of that during the referendum? There is also the "goodwill" element, that we'll pay in order to get agreement and cooperation on a trading relationship going forward. Ultimately it will be a "political" agreement ... and the Tory's will pay as much as they think they can get away with without upsetting the populace. But that will be a very big sum of money ... and will wipe out any so-called savings for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nauseus Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 5 minutes ago, AlexRich said: I'd bet that the UK will pay north of £40bn, possibly more. The sum will be made up of a whole series of contracts and commitments, with discounts applied ... a political settlement if you like. Now you can argue about the fairness or otherwise all day for the rest of your life, but that is the reality of the situation. This will wipe out any of the so-called "savings" for many years, and in return we'll get less than we have currently. Ah well. Silly of me to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRich Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Just now, nauseus said: Ah well. Silly of me to ask. Quite, if you thought there would be detailed calculations that no one could dispute ... we are paying a mix of genuine bills and a kickback for a smooth transition and trading arrangement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talahtnut Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 15 hours ago, Srikcir said: Covered in the 700+ pages of previous posts. But a quick google search gives this background: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-14/brexit-s-costs-and-whether-britain-will-pay-up-quicktake-q-a Thank you for the link, which concluded with:..... The Times newspaper reported on March 4 that government lawyers had found no legal obligation for the U.K. to pay up. A study by the House of Lords also questioned whether there was a legal requirement to pay and calculated the bill could be as low as 15 billion euros. May has said "money paid in the past" into joint EU projects and the European Investment Bank should be taken into account. When all is said and calculated, Johnson said May 13, Brussels could end up owing Britain money. Earlier it was mentioned by Juncker that a huge bill would put off other members copying Brexit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 16 minutes ago, talahtnut said: Thank you for the link, which concluded with:..... The Times newspaper reported on March 4 that government lawyers had found no legal obligation for the U.K. to pay up. A study by the House of Lords also questioned whether there was a legal requirement to pay and calculated the bill could be as low as 15 billion euros. May has said "money paid in the past" into joint EU projects and the European Investment Bank should be taken into account. When all is said and calculated, Johnson said May 13, Brussels could end up owing Britain money. Earlier it was mentioned by Juncker that a huge bill would put off other members copying Brexit. Would that be the same Johnson still peddling the 350 million nonsense. For sure you should go with his calculations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 hour ago, aright said: Yes! Prime Minister Rees-Mogg has nice cadence don't you think. Blithering idiot rhymes better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dick dasterdly Posted November 20, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted November 20, 2017 32 minutes ago, talahtnut said: Can I ask you why we owe the EU a big bill. 26 minutes ago, AlexRich said: There are some genuine commitments that the UK has signed up to ... employee pension rights, building leases, programme funding, for example. But no one mentioned any of that during the referendum? There is also the "goodwill" element, that we'll pay in order to get agreement and cooperation on a trading relationship going forward. Ultimately it will be a "political" agreement ... and the Tory's will pay as much as they think they can get away with without upsetting the populace. But that will be a very big sum of money ... and will wipe out any so-called savings for years. The UK will pay it's share towards EU employees' pension rights until it leaves. Why should it continue to pay after it is no longer an employer? The same applies to leases/programme funding. The only reason for the UK to pay any additional money (and why is the UK's share of EU assets never mentioned by politicians/media?) - is for an agreement on favourable trading terms. i.e. the " "goodwill" element, that we'll pay in order to get agreement and cooperation on a trading relationship going forward." Except the EU is ignoring this inextricable element, and demanding the UK offer unspecified and unjustified amounts of money in advance of any trade talks..... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post aright Posted November 20, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted November 20, 2017 26 minutes ago, SheungWan said: Blithering idiot rhymes better. I must stop asking you how stupid can you be? You are starting to take it as a challenge. 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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