May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Laughing Gravy]

1 minute ago, oldhippy said:

Simple solution: Do not breach the terms of the transition, keep your promises.

Complication: The inner fighting within the brexit team will of course continue during the transition period, resulting in the total unreliability of the UK.

Simple solution tell them to Foxtrot Oscar, we pay them nothing and we start putting tariffs on German and French products.

 

I am actually glad 'Barnpot' has leaked this as even some remainers will not like getting punished for leaving the EU. It just cements what I have always believed and many others that the EU is a corrupt, bully boys club that is about control and eroding countries identities. Do as we say or else.

 

[talahtnut]

15 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Simple solution tell them to Foxtrot Oscar, we pay them nothing and we start putting tariffs on German and French products.

 

I am actually glad 'Barnpot' has leaked this as even some remainers will not like getting punished for leaving the EU. It just cements what I have always believed and many others that the EU is a corrupt, bully boys club that is about control and eroding countries identities. Do as we say or else.

 

The EU has been compared with the Cosa Nostra before.

Nobodya leava without da concreta bootsa.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Exactly - what is the point in negotiating a transition if there are no repercussions upon either party to transgress?

 

What repercussions are in place should the EU transgress and who would punish them if they do?

[RuamRudy]

15 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

What repercussions are in place should the EU transgress and who would punish them if they do?

I presume that an effective UK negotiations team would put in place equivalent clauses for enactment should the EU default on agreements. 

[ilostmypassword]

14 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

What repercussions are in place should the EU transgress and who would punish them if they do?

Well, Brexiters say that imposing penalties on the EU in case it transgresses shouldn't be a problem since the UK has so much power in relation to the EU. To suggest otherwise would suggest that the UK doesn't have nearly the power and influence in these negotiations that most Brexiters believe it does.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Simple solution tell them to Foxtrot Oscar, we pay them nothing and we start putting tariffs on German and French products.

 

I am actually glad 'Barnpot' has leaked this as even some remainers will not like getting punished for leaving the EU. It just cements what I have always believed and many others that the EU is a corrupt, bully boys club that is about control and eroding countries identities. Do as we say or else.

 

I am unsure why this should be such an issue for you. Do you think that the UK should default on agreements they make with international institutions? Do you think that the UK would maintain international credibility should it default on its agreements? 

[oldhippy]

I do not consider it likely that during the transitional  months a coup will be staged within the EU.

 

Are the brexiteers sure that there will be no coup at the UK side?

Resulting in a change of strategy?

Or that this May woman will not call new elections again?

With the UK government, parliament, voters and brexit negotiators in total disarray, is it not normal that the EU takes precautions?

 

 

[Laughing Gravy]

9 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I am unsure why this should be such an issue for you. Do you think that the UK should default on agreements they make with international institutions? Do you think that the UK would maintain international credibility should it default on its agreements? 

My issue is with the EU. I have never agreed being in it and given the first chance to vote out I have. a bit like your perusal of an independent Scotland.

 

The UK lost credibility when it gave away its fishing rights to the EU, as well as farming in the UK. The UK should just walk away, forget the bribe money they are suppose to pay the EU and say rollocks to any default.

[billd766]

16 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I presume that an effective UK negotiations team would put in place equivalent clauses for enactment should the EU default on agreements. 

 

I can presume that as well but WHO would enforce them and punish the EU?

2 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

I do not consider it likely that during the transitional  months a coup will be staged within the EU.

 

Are the brexiteers sure that there will be no coup at the UK side?

Resulting in a change of strategy?

Or that this May woman will not call new elections again?

With the UK government, parliament, voters and brexit negotiators in total disarray, is it not normal that the EU takes precautions?

 

 

 

You could ask that question and change Brexiteers to Remainers and get the same answer.

[talahtnut]

15 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

My issue is with the EU. I have never agreed being in it and given the first chance to vote out I have. a bit like your perusal of an independent Scotland.

 

The UK lost credibility when it gave away its fishing rights to the EU, as well as farming in the UK. The UK should just walk away, forget the bribe money they are suppose to pay the EU and say rollocks to any default.

Its about time the UK should grow some rollocks.

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

I can presume that as well but WHO would enforce them and punish the EU?

The Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) is an intergovernmental organization located at The Hague in the Netherlands. The PCA is not a court "in the traditional sense", but provides services of arbitral tribunal to resolve disputes between member states, international organizations, or private parties arising out of international agreements.^[4][5] The cases span a range of legal issues involving territorial and maritime boundaries, sovereignty, human rights, international investment, and international and regional trade. The PCA is constituted through two separate multilateral conventions^[6]with a combined^[1] membership of 121 states.^[1] 

 

 

[RuamRudy]

13 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

The UK lost credibility when it gave away its fishing rights to the EU, as well as farming in the UK. The UK should just walk away, forget the bribe money they are suppose to pay the EU and say rollocks to any default.

I wasn't meaning credibility in terms of public perception - I realised how shot that was while travelling through Europe in late summer 2016. I was referring to institutions, governments, multinationals etc - why would they want to do business in a country that reneges on its promises?

[talahtnut]

15 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

  15 hours ago, billd766 said:

I can presume that as well but WHO would enforce them and punish the EU?

UK could..sanctions, and stop paying into EU coffers.

[Laughing Gravy]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

I wasn't meaning credibility in terms of public perception - I realised how shot that was while travelling through Europe in late summer 2016. I was referring to institutions, governments, multinationals etc - why would they want to do business in a country that reneges on its promises?

I think everyone knows the EU don't want anyone else to leave and are making it as difficult as possible, for the UK. That sort of attitude just shows to me that we did the right thing and voted leave. If the EU was more flexible and wasn't 'hell bent' on the unification of Europe then the UK possibly could have voted remain. Either way it shows just what the EU organization is about. With that attitude I wouldn't want to do business with them. I could do without French wine, cheese and German cars, as an example.

 

I am sure this attitude will only make more people to see the EU as a dictatorship that it is.

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I think everyone knows the EU don't want anyone else to leave and are making it as difficult as possible, for the UK. That sort of attitude just shows to me that we did the right thing and voted leave. If the EU was more flexible and wasn't 'hell bent' on the unification of Europe then the UK possibly could have voted remain. Either way it shows just what the EU organization is about. With that attitude I wouldn't want to do business with them. I could do without French wine, cheese and German cars, as an example.

 

I am sure this attitude will only make more people to see the EU as a dictatorship that it is.

During the Scottish independence campaign, the Unionists made a huge stink that, were an independent Scotland to refuse to accept a proportionate share of the UK national debt, it would lose all credibility with international lenders and, as a country, would be relegated to junk status. Unless this was a scare tactic, there is no reason to assume that, were the UK to default on its agreements, it would not be treated similarly. 

[oldhippy]

14 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I think everyone knows the EU don't want anyone else to leave and are making it as difficult as possible, for the UK. That sort of attitude just shows to me that we did the right thing and voted leave. If the EU was more flexible and wasn't 'hell bent' on the unification of Europe then the UK possibly could have voted remain. Either way it shows just what the EU organization is about. With that attitude I wouldn't want to do business with them. I could do without French wine, cheese and German cars, as an example.

 

I am sure this attitude will only make more people to see the EU as a dictatorship that it is.

QUOTE:

I could do without French wine, cheese and German cars, as an example.

 

When people say things like this, you realise that further discussion is pointless.

[aright]

2 hours ago, oldhippy said:

QUOTE: Under the proposals, the EU would have unprecedented legal powers — without the oversight of European courts — to punish Britain unilaterally if it breached the terms of the transition.

 

.

Complication: The inner fighting within the brexit team will of course continue during the transition period, resulting in the total unreliability of the UK.

And of course the spoiling tactics of the Remainers will continue up until Brexit because they cannot respect the democratic will of the British people or the overwhelming vote in the Commons  to trigger Article 50.

[aright]

12 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

QUOTE:

I could do without French wine, cheese and German cars, as an example.

 

When people say things like this, you realise that further discussion is pointless.

Then opt out please! You don't have a dog in the fight

[oldhippy]

4 minutes ago, aright said:

Then opt out please! You don't have a dog in the fight

I am a European citizen.

But you are right, I do not like dog fights.

 

And ..... 555..... opting out is far too typical British for me 555.

Edited February 7, 2018 by oldhippy
edited

[dick dasterdly]

7 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

QUOTE:

I could do without French wine, cheese and German cars, as an example.

 

When people say things like this, you realise that further discussion is pointless.

Let's be honest here - discussing this subject is undoubtedly pointless as neither the UK or EU governments are likely to see (even less, care!) about the opinion of posters on this forum .

 

It's just a discussion amongst forum members - that changes nothing.

 

Even so, it's interesting to read posters' opinions - and that is why these forums exist!

[talahtnut]

15 hours ago, oldhippy said:

QUOTE:

I could do without French wine, cheese and German cars, as an example.

 

When people say things like this, you realise that further discussion is pointless.

Pointless indeed it is, cant beat cracking English cheese, Ozzy wine..

not sure about German cars though..disgraceful selling Rolls and Bentley.

[oldhippy]

2 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

Pointless indeed it is, cant beat cracking English cheese, Ozzy wine..

not sure about German cars though..disgraceful selling Rolls and Bentley.

Don't short change your national dish: chicken curry

 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

The Permanent Court of Arbitration (PCA) is an intergovernmental organization located at The Hague in the Netherlands. The PCA is not a court "in the traditional sense", but provides services of arbitral tribunal to resolve disputes between member states, international organizations, or private parties arising out of international agreements.^[4][5] The cases span a range of legal issues involving territorial and maritime boundaries, sovereignty, human rights, international investment, and international and regional trade. The PCA is constituted through two separate multilateral conventions^[6]with a combined^[1] membership of 121 states.^[1] 

 

 

 

OK. I would be happy with that PROVIDED that the EU goes to the same courts if the UK is the transgressor.

 

I truly don't think that they would, but would rely on the ECJ and its built in bias.

[aright]

27 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

Don't short change your national dish: chicken curry

 

We shouldn't forget either, one of Belgium's favorite dishes,  Waffle. 

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Exactly - what is the point in negotiating a transition if there are no repercussions upon either party to transgress?

It’s negotiating the surrender of our independence during this period, in order to become a colony of the E.U.

[nontabury]

50 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

I am a European citizen.

But you are right, I do not like dog fights.

 

And ..... 555..... opting out is far too typical British for me 555.

It does amaze me that you and your fellow Europeans, are so adamant that we should remain in this so called union, I wonder why.

[dick dasterdly]

4 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

This is why leaving the EU is vital. Walk away Mrs. May.

 

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/we-will-use-sanctions-to-punish-you-during-brexit-transition-says-brussels-

vfwcfswdc

 

Brussels is demanding that Theresa May submit to powers allowing the European Union to ground flights, suspend single market access and impose trade tariffs on the UK during the Brexit transition period.

Under the proposals, the EU would have unprecedented legal powers — without the oversight of European courts — to punish Britain unilaterally if it breached the terms of the transition.

The prime minister has also been warned by Brussels that she must make a legal commitment to prevent a hard border in Northern Ireland within weeks or the EU will “stall” Brexit trade and transition talks. Both issues are expected to be discussed by ministers today when the cabinet’s Brexit sub-committee meets to try to reach agreement on the next stage of negotiations.

A five-page legal text drafted by the European Commission and seen by The Times yesterday will infuriate Tory backbenchers who regard transition arrangements as reducing Britain to a “vassal state” after Brexit. The text calls for “a mechanism allowing the union to suspend certain benefits deriving for the UK from participation in the internal market where it considers that referring the matter to Court of Justice of the EU would not bring in appropriate time the necessary remedies”.

The proposal for draconian enforcement powers, which would risk causing a trade war between the EU and Britain, illustrates the mistrust between the government and European states.

 

Just now, nontabury said:

It’s negotiating the surrender of our independence during this period, in order to become a colony of the E.U.

Surely it's the ridiculous EU 'terms' quoted above that has to be the focus of attention?

 

And I'm sure those that support 'remain' will have no problem with the Times as a source?

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Surely it's the ridiculous EU 'terms' quoted above that has to be the focus of attention?

 

And I'm sure those that support 'remain' will have no problem with the Times as a source?

This whole discussion reeks of having one's cake and eating it too. The Brexiteers must surely have known that to exit the EU, the UK needed to negotiate with the bloc. Since the referendum we have had an election which, while not conclusive, gave the PM a quasi mandate to create a team to negotiate on behalf of the government and the Brexiteers. If you have no confidence in the ability of the UK negotiators to conclude an agreement that is fair to the UK then that is, unfortunately, tough - we are in this situation because you chose to put us here. They are following your will, not mine. If they fail in their role, it is because you voted for them to be in that situation in the first place. 

 

Because that is the crux of this whole discussion - not whether draconian retribution should befall the UK if it reneges on an agreement, but whether we Brits are actually capable of negotiating effectively. 

[Laughing Gravy]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

QUOTE:

I could do without French wine, cheese and German cars, as an example.

 

When people say things like this, you realise that further discussion is pointless.

What don't you like my opinion. Well that is fine. I stand by it. The EU is great at bullying countries into line. When someone stands up to it then they get shouted down or even quoted (not by yourself) as nationalistic or even non progressive. I find that totally Ironic.

[Laughing Gravy]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

They are following your will, not mine. If they fail in their role, it is because you voted for them to be in that situation in the first place.

The will as you put it was for us to leave the EU, customs union and single market. It has been done to death on this forum but that's what we were all told. If Mrs. May done this then we wouldn't be squabbling for scraps which seems to be the way now.