May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[jpinx]

32 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Are we to take it then that Juncker leaving will be the solution to the border problem. In the real world he is still around.

I'm not sure when his departure is slated.  Come April the Brexit negotiations will be getting into it, so the EU team will need some consistency in their policies.  As to the external EU border arrangement, it's only one issue of many which needs agreement.  Our personal preferences may or may not be fulfilled, but our opportunity to influence the outcome is zero....     

[Flustered]

We (the people)  have exactly the same say as we had when each successive government negotiated and signed the various EU agreements...........ZERO

 

We (the people) have ZERO say in the EU since our brilliant politicians gave it all away.

 

Watch 12;25 minutes into William Hagues speech, explains it all.

 

 

[nontabury]

5 hours ago, pitrevie said:

 I have never understood that sort of remark as if it only applies to die hard Labour areas. I am sure there are plenty of Tory areas where if you stuck a blue rosette on a donkey the locals would still vote for it.

Correct, and I'm sure they same applies to the SNP colour,what ever it is.

 

[Richard W]

15 hours ago, Richard W said:

It would appear not to apply to Denmark or the British Isles.  In fact, I'm not sure that it has any application outside of Schengen.

 

12 hours ago, sandyf said:

I take it you are referring to the new border control arrangements in which case Denmark would be included.

The relevant regulation would appear to Regulation 2016/1624 'European Border and Coast Guard', but preamble item 65 says, "In accordance with Articles 1 and 2 of Protocol No 22 on the position of Denmark annexed to the TEU and to the TFEU, Denmark is not taking part in the adoption of this Regulation and is not bound by it, or subject to its application. Given that this Regulation builds upon the Schengen acquis, Denmark shall, in accordance with Article 4 of that Protocol, decide within a period of six months after the Council has decided on this Regulation whether it will implement it in its national law."

 

Therefore its not clear to me that Denmark is included.

[jpinx]

It's interesting to see that the pigeons are coming home to roost.  Schultz might well be in deep poo now...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39080163

Junckers is resigning, possibly before anyone can catch up with his tricks, so only Tusk to go and we'll have a whole new version of the EU response to brexit.  This is playing very nicely into the hands of UK.  :)

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, Richard W said:

 

The relevant regulation would appear to Regulation 2016/1624 'European Border and Coast Guard', but preamble item 65 says, "In accordance with Articles 1 and 2 of Protocol No 22 on the position of Denmark annexed to the TEU and to the TFEU, Denmark is not taking part in the adoption of this Regulation and is not bound by it, or subject to its application. Given that this Regulation builds upon the Schengen acquis, Denmark shall, in accordance with Article 4 of that Protocol, decide within a period of six months after the Council has decided on this Regulation whether it will implement it in its national law."

 

Therefore its not clear to me that Denmark is included.

Well spotted and you may be right, the launch announcement referred to all member states. Denmark is in the Schengen area so a little bit different to the problem with Ireland.

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, jpinx said:

I'm not sure when his departure is slated.  Come April the Brexit negotiations will be getting into it, so the EU team will need some consistency in their policies.  As to the external EU border arrangement, it's only one issue of many which needs agreement.  Our personal preferences may or may not be fulfilled, but our opportunity to influence the outcome is zero....     

Juncker has said he will not stand for a second term so that would mean he leaves in July 2019 and you could be right that it is in the middle of the brexit negotiations. We should get a clue next week.

[billd766]

On 24/02/2017 at 2:17 PM, pitrevie said:

 I have never understood that sort of remark as if it only applies to die hard Labour areas. I am sure there are plenty of Tory areas where if you stuck a blue rosette on a donkey the locals would still vote for it.

 

Poole, Bournemouth and Christchurch are 3 such areas on the south coast.

[Flustered]

It's an old trick sticking a rosette on a donkey for a parliamentary election. They have been doing that in Hull for "donkeys" years.

 

John Prescott for example....a right old donkey

Edited February 25, 2017 by Flustered

[billd766]

33 minutes ago, Flustered said:

It's an old trick sticking a rosette on a donkey for a parliamentary election. They have been doing that in Hull for "donkeys" years.

 

John Prescott for example....a right old donkey

 

I had forgotten about John "2 Jaguars" Prescott. I thought that he had been pensioned off years ago.

 

He was, but to the House of Lords as Baron Prescott of Kingston upon Hull.

[Flustered]

When he was being asked about new prisons and the people who would have to live next to them, Donkey Prescott claimed to the press that he lived opposite Hull Prison.

 

His house is almost directly opposite the Golf Club. The prison is some 3 miles away.

 

Good old Donkey John.

[sandyf]

Over the first hurdle but the bar will be a bit higher today.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-eu-citizens-rights-theresa-may-amber-rudd-house-of-lords-a7604566.html

[billd766]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Over the first hurdle but the bar will be a bit higher today.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-eu-citizens-rights-theresa-may-amber-rudd-house-of-lords-a7604566.html

 

So if the House of Lords (an unelected political body) win and force the government to accede what will they do if only 1 of the 27 members of the EU vote to evict the Brits out of the EU if the other 26 say that the Brits can stay? It only needs 1 veto to stop that legislation in the EU.

 

Will the House of Lords acknowledge that they made a mistake? Will they even care?

 

What the PM and the Brexit team are trying to do is get the best deal for ALL of the UK yet people like the House of Lords, the wishy washy Lib Dems and other hangers on to the Remain side hang on grimly and refuse to accept that over 17 million people in the UK voted for Brexit.

 

Quite possibly the Remain side could have won if more people had bothered to vote but perhaps not.

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

So if the House of Lords (an unelected political body) win and force the government to accede what will they do if only 1 of the 27 members of the EU vote to evict the Brits out of the EU if the other 26 say that the Brits can stay? It only needs 1 veto to stop that legislation in the EU.

 

Will the House of Lords acknowledge that they made a mistake? Will they even care?

 

What the PM and the Brexit team are trying to do is get the best deal for ALL of the UK yet people like the House of Lords, the wishy washy Lib Dems and other hangers on to the Remain side hang on grimly and refuse to accept that over 17 million people in the UK voted for Brexit.

 

Quite possibly the Remain side could have won if more people had bothered to vote but perhaps not.

The House of Lords, whether people agree with it or not is immaterial, is part of the UK constitution and we have seen already that the government has little regard for the constitution.

The question mark over EU citizens is one of morality and conscience and each will hold their own view. In the House of Commons the MPs were told how to vote so morality and conscience didn't come into it, unless you were prepared to break the rules. Funny how the rules come into play when it suits.

The HoL is not subject to the same restrictions so we may well see a more reasoned outcome.

 

The argument put up by the government is hypocritical. They have no interest in the UK citizens in Europe, a large percentage of them weren't allowed to vote. That in itself could well have changed the outcome, the outcome was determined by 635K votes and there is an estimated 1.3 million expats in Europe. The expats are nothing more than another negotiating tool.

Could well be a different story if it comes to another referendum as the expats will be allowed to vote.

 

This "Best deal for everyone" is a myth, no such animal. Somewhere along the line some sector has to trampled upon. TM will be looking at votes which would make the Scots and Irish fair game.

As each day passes it is looking more and more like a "Worst deal for everyone".

[citybiker]

IIRC The EU have already stated that the issue 'the lords' are addressing will not be debated until Art 50 is invoked.

Why concede to allow all 3.5million EU citizens to remain in the U.K. When the Government haven't received mutual reassurances over the 1million UK citizens in the EU..


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[SheungWan]

8 minutes ago, citybiker said:

IIRC The EU have already stated that the issue 'the lords' are addressing will not be debated until Art 50 is invoked.

Why concede to allow all 3.5million EU citizens to remain in the U.K. When the Government haven't received mutual reassurances over the 1million UK citizens in the EU..


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No problem at all if you want to inform those resident EU citizens that they are net negative hostages in a zero-sum game.

Edited March 1, 2017 by SheungWan

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, citybiker said:

IIRC The EU have already stated that the issue 'the lords' are addressing will not be debated until Art 50 is invoked.

Why concede to allow all 3.5million EU citizens to remain in the U.K. When the Government haven't received mutual reassurances over the 1million UK citizens in the EU..


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Because it is the RIGHT thing to do.

 

 

[Flustered]

8 minutes ago, citybiker said:

IIRC The EU have already stated that the issue 'the lords' are addressing will not be debated until Art 50 is invoked.

Why concede to allow all 3.5million EU citizens to remain in the U.K. When the Government haven't received mutual reassurances over the 1million UK citizens in the EU..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is such a simple statement that I cannot believe that people do not understand it.

 

Theresa May stated that she would allow all 3.5 million EU citizens the right to stay with all current benefits. Frau Merkle refused to even discuss the 1.2 million UK citizens in the EU rights until article 50 is invoked.

 

Malta have already said the will veto any UK citizen rights in the EU so take that as you want. Considering this hardly affects them it is an example of how EU politics works.....Badly.

 

Blame Frau Merkle as the ogress in this one. 100% to blame.

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

So if the House of Lords (an unelected political body) win and force the government to accede what will they do if only 1 of the 27 members of the EU vote to evict the Brits out of the EU if the other 26 say that the Brits can stay? It only needs 1 veto to stop that legislation in the EU.

 

Will the House of Lords acknowledge that they made a mistake? Will they even care?

 

What the PM and the Brexit team are trying to do is get the best deal for ALL of the UK yet people like the House of Lords, the wishy washy Lib Dems and other hangers on to the Remain side hang on grimly and refuse to accept that over 17 million people in the UK voted for Brexit.

 

Quite possibly the Remain side could have won if more people had bothered to vote but perhaps not.

The PM and the Brexit team trying to get the best deal for ALL!!!

 

Fabulous!

 

Numpties will believe anything!

 

Do you know where the moral high ground is? What's right and what's wrong? Sadly the "UK" has lost our moral compass....

[Flustered]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Because it is the RIGHT thing to do.

 

 

It is the wrong thing to do.

If we guarantee all the EU citizens rights ahead of a reciprocal agreement, our 1.2 million citizens living in the EU are stuffed. Simple as that.

Why is it you want the UK citizens in the EU to suffer?

[Khun Han]

13 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

No problem at all if you want to inform those resident EU citizens that they are net negative hostages in a zero-sum game.

 

You need to take this up with the EU, as they are the ones delaying resolution to this. The UK wanted an early resolution, but was rebuffed.

[Khun Han]

5 minutes ago, Flustered said:

It is the wrong thing to do.

If we guarantee all the EU citizens rights ahead of a reciprocal agreement, our 1.2 million citizens living in the EU are stuffed. Simple as that.

Why is it you want the UK citizens in the EU to suffer?

 

And our citizens living in the EU will become net negative hostages to economic negotiations. Something that doesn't seem to concern remainers. How strange!

[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, Flustered said:

It is the wrong thing to do.

If we guarantee all the EU citizens rights ahead of a reciprocal agreement, our 1.2 million citizens living in the EU are stuffed. Simple as that.

Why is it you want the UK citizens in the EU to suffer?

Sadly, you don't understand. I am genuinely sorry that you really don't get it. 

 

American influence I assume

 

I am not going to explain it to you

[Flustered]

Just now, Grouse said:

Sadly, you don't understand. I am genuinely sorry that you really don't get it. 

 

American influence I assume

 

I am not going to explain it to you

Because it cannot be explained. Also, last time we had a moral compass it was that bigot Brown.

 

What is hard to understand about this?

 

The UK wants to guarantee the EU citizens in the UK all of the rights and Frau Merkle refuses to discuss our citizens in the EU until article 50 is invoked and Malta stated at the EU conference that they would veto any UK citizen rights in the EU.

 

Why do you dislike the UK citizens in the EU to the point you want them used as pawns in Frau Merkles game of dominance?

[Grouse]

Again, I am really flabbergasted that some on here don't understand the POWER of doing what's right.

 

How disappointing. How embarrassing.

 

 

[citybiker]

It is the wrong thing to do.
If we guarantee all the EU citizens rights ahead of a reciprocal agreement, our 1.2 million citizens living in the EU are stuffed. Simple as that.
Why is it you want the UK citizens in the EU to suffer?

Exactly, Nothing should be agreed without a reciprocal agreement.

The Brexit negotiations will either be fraught with complications or hopefully (but highly doubtful) a more level head progressive outcome.

With quite a few EU contributors willing to punish the UK, monitored globally then the EU is primarily looking at how to fill in the fiscal element from one of its major net contributors.






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[Flustered]

Just now, Grouse said:

Again, I am really flabbergasted that some on here don't understand the POWER of doing what's right.

 

The power of what is right is in Frau Merkles hands. Theresa May has already said she will guarantee all rights of the EU citizens in the UK, all the EU has to do is agree the same for the UK citizens in the EU.

 

You cant argue with that, can you?

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, Flustered said:

Because it cannot be explained. Also, last time we had a moral compass it was that bigot Brown.

 

What is hard to understand about this?

 

The UK wants to guarantee the EU citizens in the UK all of the rights and Frau Merkle refuses to discuss our citizens in the EU until article 50 is invoked and Malta stated at the EU conference that they would veto any UK citizen rights in the EU.

 

Why do you dislike the UK citizens in the EU to the point you want them used as pawns in Frau Merkles game of dominance?

Do the right thing

 

It applies strong moral pressure to your interlocutors 

 

Also, are you based in Thailand? Have you learnt nothing?

 

I used to hold my head high as a British citizen. I feel I am being let down.

[Flustered]

Just now, Grouse said:

Do the right thing

 

It applies strong moral pressure to your interlocutors 

 

Also, are you based in Thailand? Have you learnt nothing?

 

I used to hold my head high as a British citizen. I feel I am being let down.

Any chance of you negotiating on behalf of the EU in the upcoming talks. You would give everything away and ask for nothing in return.

 

Not interested in buying a used car are you? You must be the salesman's dream customer.

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, Flustered said:

The power of what is right is in Frau Merkles hands. Theresa May has already said she will guarantee all rights of the EU citizens in the UK, all the EU has to do is agree the same for the UK citizens in the EU.

 

You cant argue with that, can you?

I would believe Merkel FAR more than I would trust you.