May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Khun Han]

29 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Demos calling for May to go.  I think Dame Lame is probably the most hated PM ever.  Since people saw through her its been an unrelenting tide of criticism and derision.  There'll be riots soon.

 

Yes, it wouldn't surprise me if the loony left reverted back to the days of riots and social disruption. It would be perfectly in keeping with Corbyn's leadership of the Lsbour party. Back to the days of Dave and Diedre Spart wanting to take over the country through revolution for us.

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

It looks like the tragic event in London is being hijacked by a rent-a-mob who are politically motivated. This type of tragedy could have occurred under any council in the UK. I'm no fan of May or her approach to Brexit but I certainly don't blame her for what happened in London. 

Poorer people have been pushed to the limit over the past decade, paying for something which the rich refused to take responsibility for, instead creating financial instability and volatility on an unprecedented level.  May's only crime is to be a rotten politician who is also ineffective; she certainly is not up to the mark imo.  It's rough justice for sure, but it is justice imo.  I sense there is revolution in the air.

Edited June 16, 2017 by mommysboy

[SheungWan]

Chancellor Philip Hammond calls for 'pragmatic' Brexit. Tory government signals softer shift. http://tinyurl.com/ycm8vfmh

 

[pitrevie]

3 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Chancellor Philip Hammond calls for 'pragmatic' Brexit. Tory government signals softer shift. http://tinyurl.com/ycm8vfmh

 

Pragmatic: Dealing with things sensibly and realistically in a way that is based on practical rather than theoretical considerations.

 

What a novel approach.

[maewang99]

this is all about money flows, being able, not able, were able, gonna be denied being able to continue....  to play money games....

all of this nonsense.... all of it.... plus most of the biggest issues of the day... everywhere.... including the terrorism thing now...

when I was in high school... it was the 'commies' and if you do any reading at all on that period now that some of the stuff is declassified.... the whole Middle East mess including the oil price spikes and stagflation/depression we went thru in the late 70's... from the Dulles brothers coup with the Brits in 1953... to Nixon and H.K. giving very big and clear okays to the Peacock Throne to raise oil prices (yes, that's right.. raise them)... because the Shah was a counter to the Soviets and gave us spy communication centers... and denied the Soviets fly over rights in regional war critical times.... and then we and the Shah went too far with this until..... and it just keeps going on and on... 9-11 is in that mess as well, for sure.

yeah there would always be problems in the Middle East but.....
it was really stupid and crazy.... and scary.... and perhaps should have been even more scarier than it already seemed... as it turns out.... but only from a Little Guy's perspective.... what was really going on.. and in Brexit too....  is there were huge mega money flows going on... corrupting good policy decisions.... and that happens because states can be played like little figures on a game board.... no agency of any kind can exert any real control at all... except the USA (oh no no no)....

....all because....

there are 5 Security Council members with a veto.

it's also why Kim Jung Un needs nukes... Iran... Iraq WMD (with our USA help.. actually, in the case of Iran and Iraq... on our ****insistence**** that they pursue nuclear power...... for Iraq to counter Iran, to counter Saudi to counter Iran, to counter Iraq on and on and on....)

if there were no vetoes..... the UN could issue blue money... think of just that for a sec..... blue money........ and blue UN aircraft carriers... because for now we live in a totally ungoverned world and the elites can and do take advantage of that... it's an unending game of money flows, arms flows and oil.

5 vetoes is what holds everything back.

think of Paris 2015.... it would be seriously different if what we agreed to had a decent chance of actually doing something.... something ****other**** than providing jerks like Hillary and Macron and Bernie Sanders political cover to just garb it and display how they feel about it..... as we keep using up what little carbon budget the future really has.. while at least half the world is doing stupid stuff like Brexit and dropping or making bombs and trying to get nukes because they work a lot better than flying airplanes into buildings or running around in the street with knives (and it is totally rational Mr. Trump.. and you know it is....  that the DPRK needs nukes.... totally rational). 

we need to start solving problems instead of going around in circles as warring and screaming tribes of Old World talking chimpanzees that we are... that we really are.... in God's image or not.... let's get rid of the 5 vetoes.




  





    
  

  

           

Edited June 17, 2017 by maewang99

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, maewang99 said:

this is all about money flows, being able, not able, were able, gonna be denied being able to continue....  to play money games....

all of this nonsense.... all of it.... plus most of the biggest issues of the day... everywhere.... including the terrorism thing now...

when I was in high school... it was the 'commies' and if you do any reading at all on that period now that some of the stuff is declassified.... the whole Middle East mess including the oil price spikes and stagflation/depression we went thru in the late 70's... from the Dulles brothers coup with the Brits in 1953... to Nixon and H.K. giving very big and clear okays to the Peacock Throne to raise oil prices (yes, that's right.. raise them)... because the Shah was a counter to the Soviets and gave us spy communication centers... and denied the Soviets fly over rights in regional war critical times.... and then we and the Shah went too far with this until..... and it just keeps going on and on... 9-11 is in that mess as well, for sure.

yeah there would always be problems in the Middle East but.....
it was really stupid and crazy.... and scary.... and perhaps should have been even more scarier than it already seemed... as it turns out.... but only from a Little Guy's perspective.... what was really going on.. and in Brexit too....  is there were huge mega money flows going on... corrupting good policy decisions.... and that happens because states can be played like little figures on a game board.... no agency of any kind can exert any real control at all... except the USA (oh no no no)....

....all because....

there are 5 Security Council members with a veto.

it's also why Kim Jung Un needs nukes... Iran... Iraq WMD (with our USA help.. actually, in the case of Iran and Iraq... on our ****insistence**** that they pursue nuclear power...... for Iraq to counter Iran, to counter Saudi to counter Iran, to counter Iraq on and on and on....)

if there were no vetoes..... the UN could issue blue money... think of just that for a sec..... blue money........ and blue UN aircraft carriers... because for now we live in a totally ungoverned world and the elites can and do take advantage of that... it's an unending game of money flows, arms flows and oil.

5 vetoes is what holds everything back.

think of Paris 2015.... it would be seriously different if what we agreed to had a decent chance of actually doing something.... something ****other**** than providing jerks like Hillary and Macron and Bernie Sanders political cover to just garb it and display how they feel about it..... as we keep using up what little carbon budget the future really has.. while at least half the world is doing stupid stuff like Brexit and dropping or making bombs and trying to get nukes because they work a lot better than flying airplanes into buildings or running around in the street with knives (and it is totally rational Mr. Trump.. and you know it is....  that the DPRK needs nukes.... totally rational). 

we need to start solving problems instead of going around in circles as warring and screaming tribes of Old World talking chimpanzees that we are... that we really are.... in God's image or not.... let's get rid of the 5 vetoes.




  





    
  

  

           

Morning everyone! Coffee?

[rockingrobin]

4 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

It looks like the tragic event in London is being hijacked by a rent-a-mob who are politically motivated. This type of tragedy could have occurred under any council in the UK. I'm no fan of May or her approach to Brexit but I certainly don't blame her for what happened in London. 

The Conservative government was the first to commit on  reducing regulation,  adopting the 'one in two out approach'

 

https://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmhansrd/cm140206/halltext/140206h0002.htm

[vogie]

1 hour ago, maewang99 said:

this is all about money flows, being able, not able, were able, gonna be denied being able to continue....  to play money games....

all of this nonsense.... all of it.... plus most of the biggest issues of the day... everywhere.... including the terrorism thing now...

when I was in high school... it was the 'commies' and if you do any reading at all on that period now that some of the stuff is declassified.... the whole Middle East mess including the oil price spikes and stagflation/depression we went thru in the late 70's... from the Dulles brothers coup with the Brits in 1953... to Nixon and H.K. giving very big and clear okays to the Peacock Throne to raise oil prices (yes, that's right.. raise them)... because the Shah was a counter to the Soviets and gave us spy communication centers... and denied the Soviets fly over rights in regional war critical times.... and then we and the Shah went too far with this until..... and it just keeps going on and on... 9-11 is in that mess as well, for sure.

yeah there would always be problems in the Middle East but.....
it was really stupid and crazy.... and scary.... and perhaps should have been even more scarier than it already seemed... as it turns out.... but only from a Little Guy's perspective.... what was really going on.. and in Brexit too....  is there were huge mega money flows going on... corrupting good policy decisions.... and that happens because states can be played like little figures on a game board.... no agency of any kind can exert any real control at all... except the USA (oh no no no)....

....all because....

there are 5 Security Council members with a veto.

it's also why Kim Jung Un needs nukes... Iran... Iraq WMD (with our USA help.. actually, in the case of Iran and Iraq... on our ****insistence**** that they pursue nuclear power...... for Iraq to counter Iran, to counter Saudi to counter Iran, to counter Iraq on and on and on....)

if there were no vetoes..... the UN could issue blue money... think of just that for a sec..... blue money........ and blue UN aircraft carriers... because for now we live in a totally ungoverned world and the elites can and do take advantage of that... it's an unending game of money flows, arms flows and oil.

5 vetoes is what holds everything back.

think of Paris 2015.... it would be seriously different if what we agreed to had a decent chance of actually doing something.... something ****other**** than providing jerks like Hillary and Macron and Bernie Sanders political cover to just garb it and display how they feel about it..... as we keep using up what little carbon budget the future really has.. while at least half the world is doing stupid stuff like Brexit and dropping or making bombs and trying to get nukes because they work a lot better than flying airplanes into buildings or running around in the street with knives (and it is totally rational Mr. Trump.. and you know it is....  that the DPRK needs nukes.... totally rational). 

we need to start solving problems instead of going around in circles as warring and screaming tribes of Old World talking chimpanzees that we are... that we really are.... in God's image or not.... let's get rid of the 5 vetoes.




  





    
  

  

           

 

[AlexRich]

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Poorer people have been pushed to the limit over the past decade, paying for something which the rich refused to take responsibility for, instead creating financial instability and volatility on an unprecedented level.  May's only crime is to be a rotten politician who is also ineffective; she certainly is not up to the mark imo.  It's rough justice for sure, but it is justice imo.  I sense there is revolution in the air.

I sense that there's not.

[AlexRich]

40 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

The Conservative government was the first to commit on  reducing regulation,  adopting the 'one in two out approach'

 

https://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmhansrd/cm140206/halltext/140206h0002.htm

I'd bet that you'll find similar tower blocks up and down the country, with different political councils running the show ... so i don't accept that May is responsible. 

[sandyf]

11 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Why would the UK even want to leave the EU standards especially if we want to sell to them?

 

Do you have any references to say that this will in fact happen?

It is a valid point Bill but it would only really apply to standards related to export.

 

I see TM's determination to remove recourse to the ECJ and ECHR as a dangerous way forward, opens the door to dictatorship from a government of any persuasion.

[Orac]

3 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Poorer people have been pushed to the limit over the past decade, paying for something which the rich refused to take responsibility for, instead creating financial instability and volatility on an unprecedented level.  May's only crime is to be a rotten politician who is also ineffective; she certainly is not up to the mark imo.  It's rough justice for sure, but it is justice imo.  I sense there is revolution in the air.

 

33 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

I sense that there's not.

 

I do get the feeling that the political environment has the country balancing on a knife of late and it will not take much more to push it over the edge.

 

It nearly turned to civil war in the West Country yesterday though the the MSM doesn't seem to be reporting it.

 

 

Edited June 17, 2017 by Orac

[sandyf]

What will British nationality mean post brexit?

 

"The second most popular reason was the belief that a second non-UK citizenship would mean "increased freedom and human rights" - with nearly three in five citing this as their concern. One in six people wanted a second passport for business and career opportunities."

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-latest-news-uk-eu-dual-citizenship-european-union-countries-ireland-a7792971.html

[billd766]

8 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Demos calling for May to go.  I think Dame Lame is probably the most hated PM ever.  Since people saw through her its been an unrelenting tide of criticism and derision.  There'll be riots soon.

 

I can understand demonstrations calling for to go, but riots?

 

Perhaps in your dreams.

[billd766]

5 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Poorer people have been pushed to the limit over the past decade, paying for something which the rich refused to take responsibility for, instead creating financial instability and volatility on an unprecedented level.  May's only crime is to be a rotten politician who is also ineffective; she certainly is not up to the mark imo.  It's rough justice for sure, but it is justice imo.  I sense there is revolution in the air.

 

quote "I sense there is revolution in the air."

 

Really? Tumbrils in the streets and all that?

 

I really think that you are getting over excited.

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

It is a valid point Bill but it would only really apply to standards related to export.

 

I see TM's determination to remove recourse to the ECJ and ECHR as a dangerous way forward, opens the door to dictatorship from a government of any persuasion.

 

Exports are a good way to bring income into the country. To do that the UK would have to comply with EU standards which they already do so why would that standard change?

 

One example of EU standards that would have to be kept is the aircraft industry.

 

BAE makes parts for Airbus. If the UK changed that standard then there would be NO Airbus for quite a few years while the EU had to retool and build new factories and the loss would be catastrophic to both the EU and the UK.

 

Another example is vehicles built in the UK for export would still have to be made to the current EU standard or the UK could not export to the EU.

 

I can understand your concern about the ECJ and the ECHR but they ahve only recently applied to the UK (and the EU as well). What did we do about HR and justice up until then for hundreds of years when it was in the remit of the UK? We did it for oursekves as all other countires do and did.

[mommysboy]

6 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

quote "I sense there is revolution in the air."

 

Really? Tumbrils in the streets and all that?

 

I really think that you are getting over excited.

 

Exports are a good way to bring income into the country. To do that the UK would have to comply with EU standards which they already do so why would that standard change?

 

One example of EU standards that would have to be kept is the aircraft industry.

 

BAE makes parts for Airbus. If the UK changed that standard then there would be NO Airbus for quite a few years while the EU had to retool and build new factories and the loss would be catastrophic to both the EU and the UK.

 

Another example is vehicles built in the UK for export would still have to be made to the current EU standard or the UK could not export to the EU.

 

I can understand your concern about the ECJ and the ECHR but they ahve only recently applied to the UK (and the EU as well). What did we do about HR and justice up until then for hundreds of years when it was in the remit of the UK? We did it for oursekves as all other countires do and did.

Oh sure, but this is trade.  I am talking about civil rights.

 

 

[mommysboy]

25 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

I can understand demonstrations calling for to go, but riots?

 

Perhaps in your dreams.

 

50/50.

 

There have been riots caused by less.  And we are in riot season.

 

I was roundly criticized yesterday for pointing out a few home truths, but what I wrote turned out to be spot on.

 

By the way, I think I am owed an apology for that from one poster in particular.

 

As I said, some events are allegorical- highly symbolic and they encapsulate the plight of others in a way that words can not express.

Edited June 17, 2017 by mommysboy

[Orac]

 
Exports are a good way to bring income into the country. To do that the UK would have to comply with EU standards which they already do so why would that standard change?
 
One example of EU standards that would have to be kept is the aircraft industry.
 
BAE makes parts for Airbus. If the UK changed that standard then there would be NO Airbus for quite a few years while the EU had to retool and build new factories and the loss would be catastrophic to both the EU and the UK.
 
Another example is vehicles built in the UK for export would still have to be made to the current EU standard or the UK could not export to the EU.
 
I can understand your concern about the ECJ and the ECHR but they ahve only recently applied to the UK (and the EU as well). What did we do about HR and justice up until then for hundreds of years when it was in the remit of the UK? We did it for oursekves as all other countires do and did.

I would agree with much of this apart from a small caveat which is the UK would not be exporting goods based on current EU standards but on EU standards that are applicable at the time and we would have lost our ability to propose or block any future changes made.

As was highlighted in The Brexit Movie, EU standards were used as a way to legitimately block imports as a form of protectionism without breaking WTO rules and were a brake on free trade which is an argument that could come back and haunt us should we leave the single market.

[billd766]

17 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

50/50.

 

There have been riots caused by less.  And we are in riot season.

 

I was roundly criticized yesterday for pointing out a few home truths, but what I wrote turned out to be spot on.

 

By the way, I think I am owed an apology for that from one poster in particular.

 

As I said, some events are allegorical- highly symbolic and they encapsulate the plight of others in a way that words can not express.

 

Think away about an apology but don't hold your breath.

 

What is the riot season? Does it happen in the UK every year at this time?

 

 

[rockingrobin]

What is happening at the DEXEU

 

James Chapman quits in may

Stewart Jackson loses seat in June

David Jones sacked in June

Lord Bridges quit in June

Baroness Nevile Rolfe quit in June

[SheungWan]

It would appear that the forum Hard Brexiteers on this thread have been reduced to playground boasting after their ball has disappeared over the fence.

Edited June 17, 2017 by SheungWan

[Flustered]

2 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

It would appear that the forum Hard Brexiteers on this thread have been reduced to playground boasting after the ball has disappeared over the fence.

More likely bored to tears with your constant flaming and baiting rather than a sensible contribution.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Flustered

[nauseus]

11 minutes ago, Flustered said:

More likely bored to tears with your constant flaming and baiting rather than a sensible contribution.

Agree. Oh, can I have my ball back please? It's the straw one!

[SheungWan]

28 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Agree. Oh, can I have my ball back please? It's the straw one!

Headline of article on Bloomberg 'May Is Living The Weak, Unstable Brexit Nightmare She Warned of'.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, SheungWan said:

Headline of article on Bloomberg 'May Is Living The Weak, Unstable Brexit Nightmare She Warned of'.

The elite have made it clear that they are i charge.......

[SheungWan]

7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

The elite have made it clear that they are i charge.......

FT UK Election comment: headline :'May's hubris robs Britain of stability'. ...'the Prime Minister called this election to secure a mandate for her hard take on Brexit and failed to obtain it'.

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

It would appear that the forum Hard Brexiteers on this thread have been reduced to playground boasting after their ball has disappeared over the fence.

I've got it and I can tell you it wasn't a real ball; it was a first year's school cap! The cads!

[nauseus]

23 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I've got it and I can tell you it wasn't a real ball; it was a first year's school cap! The cads!

A straw boater perhaps??

[dick dasterdly]

28 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

FT UK Election comment: headline :'May's hubris robs Britain of stability'. ...'the Prime Minister called this election to secure a mandate for her hard take on Brexit and failed to obtain it'.

Hardly suprisig as the maifesto was a clear vote loser!  The elite foud a way to call May 'to heel'.....

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

Hardly suprisig as the maifesto was a clear vote loser!  The elite foud a way to call May 'to heel'.....

Looks like it to me too. No other explanation for such a shabby so-called manifesto. Constant interference since the referendum result a year ago. But typical of the EU given their history with other referendums. This is the one of the main reasons we should get out now.