May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Khun Han]

4 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Ordinarily no, but if I'd been forced to read the Sun and The Express for six months it might change my mind, it's the intellectual equivalent of waterboarding.

 

Yes, the Grauniad, Times, FT, et al use much more subtle torture techniques, don't they?

[simoh1490]

23 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Yes, the Grauniad, Times, FT, et al use much more subtle torture techniques, don't they?

Well, at least they use joined up writing and words containing multiple syllables.

[Khun Han]

20 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Well, at least they use joined up writing and words containing multiple syllables.

 

And it's such 'subtle' () techniques which so easily carry certain types of people.

[ilostmypassword]

3 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

Firstly, it isn't 2bn. That was Adonis' headline figure, which he later revised down to "hundreds of millions" in the same bloody article, if you'd bothered to read it! The DoT has responded to his claims:

 

"A Department for Transport spokesperson said: “No one is getting a bailout and Virgin Stagecoach will continue to meet its financial commitments made on the East Coast rail franchise to the taxpayer as it has done since 2015.

“Stagecoach has also – on average - paid 20% more back to the taxpayer than when the line was operated by Directly Operated Rail and we continue to receive hundreds of millions of pounds.

“The decision bring in a partnership to run the service from 2020 is to ensure the train companies work more closely with those responsible for the infrastructure like the track and signalling to help improve the service for passengers.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/30/chris-grayling-must-quit-says-lord-adonis-east-coast-line-bailout

 

And from the same article:

 

"The Department for Transport refused to comment on Adonis’s criticism of Grayling. But sources said it was “unacceptable” for Adonis to make “misleading” statements. They said there was no bailout and the Virgin Stagecoach joint venture would continue to meet its financial commitments."

 

And, if you are going to dismiss the comments of a very senior civil servant, you need to come up with something better than the fact that the person to whom she offered a detailed explanation preferred to resign theatrically rather than listen to her explanation.

 

First off, where does it say she offered Adonis an explanation befored he resigned?  And if that explanation exists, why not share it now? Why is it only apparently fit to be told to Adonis before he resigned?

As for the citation about millions of pounds. That's just revenue passed on to the government as per the agreement. It has nothing to do with changing the terms of the agreement and not paying the penalty..

And given the tricks that Virgin has pulled, like this https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/jul/01/virgin-trains-east-coast-accused-stealth-100-per-cent-fare-increase I'm surprised the revenue increase was only 20 percent.

 

[ilostmypassword]

3 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

 

And, if you are going to dismiss the comments of a very senior civil servant, you need to come up with something better than the fact that the person to whom she offered a detailed explanation preferred to resign theatrically rather than listen to her explanation.

 

I get it. When it's a very senior UK civil servant, we owe a great deal of deference to what she says. Does that go for very senior EU civil servants, too?

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, ilostmypassword said:

First off, where does it say she offered Adonis an explanation befored he resigned?  And if that explanation exists, why not share it now? Why is it only apparently fit to be told to Adonis before he resigned?

As for the citation about millions of pounds. That's just revenue passed on to the government as per the agreement. It has nothing to do with changing the terms of the agreement and not paying the penalty..

And given the tricks that Virgin has pulled, like this https://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/jul/01/virgin-trains-east-coast-accused-stealth-100-per-cent-fare-increase I'm surprised the revenue increase was only 20 percent.

 

OMG! it's in the text message exchanges.

 

The terms of the agreement were being re-negotiated, as per the DoT statement, which Adonis wilfully chose to ignore, the same as his political decision to wilfully ignore the evidence of the most senior civil servant he was dealing with on this matter.

 

Feel free to link completely offtopic  stories about Virgin.

 

Glad you appreciate the 20% rise in revenue (hundreds of millions of pounds) from the scheme that Andrew Adonis had put in place previously.

 

Just curious to know if you've actually travelled this route pre and post Virgin/Stagecoach? I have, many times. the improvement (from a customer pov) is simply phenomenal.

[Khun Han]

28 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I get it. When it's a very senior UK civil servant, we owe a great deal of deference to what she says. Does that go for very senior EU civil servants, too?

 

You completely missed the irony in Andrew Adonis ranting about how demoralised the British civil service has become under the current government, whilst only being able to quote a senior civil servant who wholeheartedly supports her government minister's stance, whilst completely deriding Andrew Adonis' viewpoint at the same time . It's too funny for words.

Edited January 2, 2018 by Khun Han

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

You could remounce your British citizenship.....if indeed you have any.

Too late for that now at my age, many years ago I was told that I could sucessfully apply for German citizenship and indeed I wanted to but my daughter had just been born and we were moving to a new house and as the citizenship would have cost me more than a months wages it just wasn't viable at the time. My passport is my last link to the UK, I need a passport of some kind or other and since I have a British passport that will do me but I don't have any sentimental attachment to it nor does my heart miss a beat when I see the union jack.

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

Too late for that now at my age, many years ago I was told that I could sucessfully apply for German citizenship and indeed I wanted to but my daughter had just been born and we were moving to a new house and as the citizenship would have cost me more than a months wages it just wasn't viable at the time. My passport is my last link to the UK, I need a passport of some kind or other and since I have a British passport that will do me but I don't have any sentimental attachment to it nor does my heart miss a beat when I see the union jack.

 

 

Then it is perfectly understandable that you have no heart for Brexit.

 

That is not said in a tub-thumping, imperialistic manner - it is just that one would need have some desire for a ‘better Britain’ to vote to leave the UK. 

 

Obviously, you were not in position to vote in the referendum.

Edited January 2, 2018 by Jip99
Brain fart..

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Then it is perfectly understandable that you have no heart for Brexit.

 

That is not said in a tub-thumping, imperialistic manner - it is just that one would need have some desire for a ‘better Britain’ to vote to leave the UK. 

 

Obviously, you were not in position to vote in the referendum.

No I wasn't. You meant EU, not UK I presume. My preference for the EU is purely an emotional one and has nothing to do with economics.

[Jip99]

38 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

No I wasn't. You meant EU, not UK I presume. My preference for the EU is purely an emotional one and has nothing to do with economics.

 

 

Understood,

 

 

Yes EU........brain fart on my part...

[sandyf]

7 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

No Khun Han is right.

 

Corbyn is an opportunist and has (understandably) U-turned on his Brexit position to take advantage of getting on the bandwagon that is seeking to undermine the government. 

 

Anti-Brexiteers are indeed responsible for that...... but I don’t hold you responsible for global warming...

There is no need for anyone to undermine the government, they are doing it very well on their own. Who was responsible for that opportunistic general election?

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

There is no need for anyone to undermine the government, they are doing it very well on their own. Who was responsible for that opportunistic general election?

 

 

I would agree with that, the Torres are making a good fist of it themselves.....BUT, many other self-interested <deleted> are getting on the bandwagon as well.

 

IMO May was unlucky-ish with the election - badly advised, compounded by one of the worst campaigns I have ever seen

[aright]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

There is no need for anyone to undermine the government, they are doing it very well on their own. Who was responsible for that opportunistic general election?

What do you know and why would you be concerned about good governance ?  You choose to live in a country with one of the worst governance records in the world.

The British people did of course have an opportunity to exercise their right to vote for a leader at the last General Election and Mrs May won.

Perhaps you could tell us how, in your chosen Valhalla, the European Union, you call to account  Barnier, Juncker and the rest of the unelected Cabal in Brussels if things go belly up? 

[Rimmer]

A personal attack on another member has been removed.

 

Also a grammar police post that was trying to hijack the topic

[aright]

Remainers hate it but we feel good about our finances..............

 

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/898791/Brexit-remainers-finances-Theresa-May

[adammike]

51 minutes ago, aright said:

What do you know and why would you be concerned about good governance ?  You choose to live in a country with one of the worst governance records in the world.

The British people did of course have an opportunity to exercise their right to vote for a leader at the last General Election and Mrs May won.

Perhaps you could tell us how, in your chosen Valhalla, the European Union, you call to account  Barnier, Juncker and the rest of the unelected Cabal in Brussels if things go belly up? 

Yo bitch.

[Orac]

Remainers hate it but we feel good about our finances..............
 
https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/898791/Brexit-remainers-finances-Theresa-May

But bad about Brexit and the PM also according to the Express today

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/898941/Brexit-Theresa-May-EU-politics-UK-Michel-Barnier-David-Davis-news-latest-European-Union


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[aright]

11 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

 

But bad about Brexit and the PM also according to the Express today

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/898941/Brexit-Theresa-May-EU-politics-UK-Michel-Barnier-David-Davis-news-latest-European-Union


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

Yes difficult times for the PM and I go back to my post 12852  

"It is time for yesterdays men, Adonis, Heseltine, Blair and all the Europhile zealots, many on this forum, to accept the people's decision and help make it work. If they can't do that some responsibility must lie at their door for a possible tepid result."

I think David Davis has been a disappointment (insufficient aggression) and I wouldn't be surprised if the PM flew in someone new with instructions to be more direct and awkward to gain more momentum. . But say what you like about Therese she has shown resilience, good humour, decency and tenacity which speaks highly of her after the June election disaster. Many people said she would only last 6 weeks.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, aright said:

Remainers hate it but we feel good about our finances..............

 

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/898791/Brexit-remainers-finances-Theresa-May

 

You should not link any good reports about Brexit on this thread. You should know by now how it upsets all those with and high standard of education that read the high faluting newspapers like the Guardian and the Independent and it shows you up as poorly educated and a know nothing.

Edited January 2, 2018 by billd766
Edited for bad spelling AFter I had checked and posted it

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, adammike said:

Yo bitch.

[ilostmypassword]

21 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

You completely missed the irony in Andrew Adonis ranting about how demoralised the British civil service has become under the current government, whilst only being able to quote a senior civil servant who wholeheartedly supports her government minister's stance, whilst completely deriding Andrew Adonis' viewpoint at the same time . It's too funny for words.

Because a senior civil servant speaking publicly will always express her private views and not those of the people she works for.

[phutoie2]

13 hours ago, aright said:

Remainers hate it but we feel good about our finances..............

 

https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/898791/Brexit-remainers-finances-Theresa-May

Clearly never spoke to those who go to work by train.

[sandyf]

20 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I would agree with that, the Torres are making a good fist of it themselves.....BUT, many other self-interested <deleted> are getting on the bandwagon as well.

 

IMO May was unlucky-ish with the election - badly advised, compounded by one of the worst campaigns I have ever seen

She had categorically stated no election and surprise surprise a snap election, whats the difference between one opportunist and another.

 

" badly advised, compounded by one of the worst campaigns I have ever seen."  On that basis I can only assume that you think David Cameron was also unlucky-ish.

 

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, aright said:

What do you know and why would you be concerned about good governance ?  You choose to live in a country with one of the worst governance records in the world.

The British people did of course have an opportunity to exercise their right to vote for a leader at the last General Election and Mrs May won.

Perhaps you could tell us how, in your chosen Valhalla, the European Union, you call to account  Barnier, Juncker and the rest of the unelected Cabal in Brussels if things go belly up? 

Thinking that Teresa May won the election is like saying the man on crutches won the battle with gangrene.

[nauseus]

18 hours ago, adammike said:

Yo bitch.

So no answer to the question, just an unpunished insult instead.  

[aright]

 

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Thinking that Teresa May won the election is like saying the man on crutches won the battle with gangrene.

Pathetic........The clue is in her title. Nothing is easier than self deceit. I can see a little of Sean Spencer in you "Sometimes we can disagree with the facts"

But you deflect,  and miss my main point!  British voters had a choice and a hand in electing or rejecting who the next Prime Minister should be. 

Can I repeat the question which you seem reluctant to answer.

Perhaps you could tell us how, in your chosen Valhalla, the European Union, you call to account  Barnier, Juncker and the rest of the unelected Cabal in Brussels if things go belly up? 

 

 

[adammike]

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

So no answer to the question, just an unpunished insult instead.  

Go back and read the post that I commented on.yo bitch is a sort of exclamation,climb down from that high horse,happy new year. 

[Steve Mepham]

On ‎29‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 1:45 AM, simoh1490 said:

Today's Telegraph: "UK businesses warn: We are suffering from fall in EU immigration

 

British businesses are already suffering from a lack of workers as EU staff quit their jobs and leave the country, and continental sources of labour dry up.

 

Employment in the UK is currently close to a record high while unemployment is at a 42-year low, making it harder for companies to find the staff they need, even without a fall in the supply of EU workers.

 

The BCC’s survey of companies found 48pc are already suffering skills or labour shortages".

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/12/28/uk-businesses-warn-suffering-fall-eu-immigration/

 

The economy would perhaps like to grow but can't because we scared off all the workers, how crazy is that! It will no doubt be argued that this has nothing to do with Brexit, of course, big sigh!

The economy would like to grow ! but cant, We were running at around 2% growth before Brexit, and for this we need what 100k imported people, that's an awful lot of people for an extra 0.5 growth on the year. open door immigration will continue in the UK for at least the next 3 years minimum, so why would people jump ship now if things were so rosy, also anybody arriving in the UK before the cut of date, yet to be agreed, gets grandfather rights that are better than for a UK citizen. 

 

 

[nauseus]

15 minutes ago, adammike said:

Go back and read the post that I commented on.yo bitch is a sort of exclamation,climb down from that high horse,happy new year. 

Seems to be you doing the climbing down now.