May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[RuamRudy]

3 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

The will as you put it was for us to leave the EU, customs union and single market. It has been done to death on this forum but that's what we were all told. If Mrs. May done this then we wouldn't be squabbling for scraps which seems to be the way now.

 

 

You are missing the point entirely - you put in place the whole rollercoaster of events that led up to this point. Cameron bailing out, May vacillating, the Tories destroying themselves from the inside as they try to wrestle control for their own self interests - maybe nobody could have predicted that we would be in just such political dire straits as we currently are, but surely it has been clear to all long before Brexit was a thing that the Tories could not be trusted to put country above personal? 

[oldhippy]

31 minutes ago, nontabury said:

It does amaze me that you and your fellow Europeans, are so adamant that we should remain in this so called union, I wonder why.

I have extensively answered that question before.

I will not repeat my answer for those that do not want to hear other peoples' opinions.

 

 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, oldhippy said:

I have extensively answered that question before.

I will not repeat my answer for those that do not want to hear other peoples' opinions.

 

 

 

[oldhippy]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

 

No, your opinion is not the only one that matters.

Besides, "I am right because I am right" is not an opinion.

 

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

No, your opinion is not the only one that matters.

Besides, "I am right because I am right" is not an opinion.

 

 

[simoh1490]

9 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

It looks as though you've developed a bad case of nontaburyism, posting pictures and cartoons with silly messages in them is a sure sign, therapy may work.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, simoh1490 said:

It looks as though you've developed a bad case of nontaburyism, posting pictures and cartoons with silly messages in them is a sure sign, therapy may work.

I find it works better with certain posters, especially rude ones.

[dick dasterdly]

32 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

This whole discussion reeks of having one's cake and eating it too. The Brexiteers must surely have known that to exit the EU, the UK needed to negotiate with the bloc. Since the referendum we have had an election which, while not conclusive, gave the PM a quasi mandate to create a team to negotiate on behalf of the government and the Brexiteers. If you have no confidence in the ability of the UK negotiators to conclude an agreement that is fair to the UK then that is, unfortunately, tough - we are in this situation because you chose to put us here. They are following your will, not mine. If they fail in their role, it is because you voted for them to be in that situation in the first place. 

 

Because that is the crux of this whole discussion - not whether draconian retribution should befall the UK if it reneges on an agreement, but whether we Brits are actually capable of negotiating effectively. 

Of course there is zero chance of the brits. negotiating 'effectively' - when the politicians are looking to remain....

 

May is a remainer herself, but achieved the 'glory' of becoming PM..... 

 

She's now desperately trying to find a way to appease the leave voters and managing the vast majority (including herself!) of remain MPs. 

[aright]

35 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 but surely it has been clear to all long before Brexit was a thing that the Tories could not be trusted to put country above personal? 

After 2 democratic votes I feel the same way about Remainers

[dick dasterdly]

38 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

The will as you put it was for us to leave the EU, customs union and single market. It has been done to death on this forum but that's what we were all told. If Mrs. May done this then we wouldn't be squabbling for scraps which seems to be the way now.

 

 

To be fair - it should have been cameron that immediately invoked article 50.

 

May is just an opportunist that was happy to seek power.

[aright]

32 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

No, your opinion is not the only one that matters.

Besides, "I am right because I am right" is not an opinion.

 

In my opinion it is if you're right.

[dick dasterdly]

43 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

You are missing the point entirely - you put in place the whole rollercoaster of events that led up to this point. Cameron bailing out, May vacillating, the Tories destroying themselves from the inside as they try to wrestle control for their own self interests - maybe nobody could have predicted that we would be in just such political dire straits as we currently are, but surely it has been clear to all long before Brexit was a thing that the Tories could not be trusted to put country above personal? 

"Cameron bailing out, May vacillating, the Tories destroying themselves from the inside as they try to wrestle control for their own self interests"

 

Agree entirely.

[simoh1490]

28 minutes ago, aright said:

In my opinion it is if you're right.

But what if it's his opinion that your opinion is wrong and his opinion is more correct than your opnion?

[aright]

1 hour ago, oldhippy said:

I have extensively answered that question before.

I will not repeat my answer for those that do not want to hear other peoples' opinions.

 

 

Thanks for being so obliging. I certainly have no interest in what the Europeans think about us leaving the Union their thoughts and perceived wisdom were noted before the referendum. They also had an opportunity to prevent us leaving by being more responsive to our, and other EU States needs....but no, the unelected Cabal were insistent on creating a federalised State  in their unelected own image

Their thoughts are water under the bridge now. We are leaving.

As a matter of interest why would Europeans want to advise us why we shouldn't leave the Union. Would this have something to do with a higher tax bill for them?

[aright]

25 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

But what if it's his opinion that your opinion is wrong and his opinion is more correct than your opnion?

I tell him very quietly "look your  opinion is irrelevant because I hate you" 

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

This is why leaving the EU is vital. Walk away Mrs. May.

 

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/we-will-use-sanctions-to-punish-you-during-brexit-transition-says-brussels-

vfwcfswdc

 

Brussels is demanding that Theresa May submit to powers allowing the European Union to ground flights, suspend single market access and impose trade tariffs on the UK during the Brexit transition period.

Under the proposals, the EU would have unprecedented legal powers — without the oversight of European courts — to punish Britain unilaterally if it breached the terms of the transition.

The prime minister has also been warned by Brussels that she must make a legal commitment to prevent a hard border in Northern Ireland within weeks or the EU will “stall” Brexit trade and transition talks. Both issues are expected to be discussed by ministers today when the cabinet’s Brexit sub-committee meets to try to reach agreement on the next stage of negotiations.

A five-page legal text drafted by the European Commission and seen by The Times yesterday will infuriate Tory backbenchers who regard transition arrangements as reducing Britain to a “vassal state” after Brexit. The text calls for “a mechanism allowing the union to suspend certain benefits deriving for the UK from participation in the internal market where it considers that referring the matter to Court of Justice of the EU would not bring in appropriate time the necessary remedies”.

The proposal for draconian enforcement powers, which would risk causing a trade war between the EU and Britain, illustrates the mistrust between the government and European states.

Ironically, the fears expressed by Brexiteers lift the veil on their own inner thoughts. It is the Brexiteers themselves who can not be trusted and our EU friends see it clearly. They don't trust the UK to keep to what was agreed of the Irish question and they don't trust the UK not to try and damage the EU club of like minded souls who have lived and prospered together in relative peace all these decades. They are correct. I'll bet in will be the UK that breaches any agreement reached.

[nontabury]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

This whole discussion reeks of having one's cake and eating it too. The Brexiteers must surely have known that to exit the EU, the UK needed to negotiate with the bloc. Since the referendum we have had an election which, while not conclusive, gave the PM a quasi mandate to create a team to negotiate on behalf of the government and the Brexiteers. If you have no confidence in the ability of the UK negotiators to conclude an agreement that is fair to the UK then that is, unfortunately, tough - we are in this situation because you chose to put us here. They are following your will, not mine. If they fail in their role, it is because you voted for them to be in that situation in the first place. 

 

Because that is the crux of this whole discussion - not whether draconian retribution should befall the UK if it reneges on an agreement, but whether we Brits are actually capable of negotiating effectively. 

Well as a Brexiteer  I have never had confidence in our Remainer  P.M willingness to negotiate on the basis of the demands of our electorate. And as we can now see, her negotiations are to agree with what the Brussels dictators demand.

Perhaps now is the time to have a change at the top, and replace T.M with a persons of conviction, who believes in standing up for the British people.

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Simple solution tell them to Foxtrot Oscar, we pay them nothing and we start putting tariffs on German and French products.

 

I am actually glad 'Barnpot' has leaked this as even some remainers will not like getting punished for leaving the EU. It just cements what I have always believed and many others that the EU is a corrupt, bully boys club that is about control and eroding countries identities. Do as we say or else.

 

It is not about leaving the union it is a matter of breach of agreement. I am old enough to remember when our word was our bond. Alas, no more. 

 

Again, Brexiteers show their true colours (to varying degrees)

[Jip99]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It is not about leaving the union it is a matter of breach of agreement. I am old enough to remember when our word was our bond. Alas, no more. 

 

Again, Brexiteers show their true colours (to varying degrees)

 

 

 

So now now you are saying that ALL Brexiteers are dishonorable.

 

You really are a bottom-feeder.

[Khun Han]

3 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

 

So now now you are saying that ALL Brexiteers are dishonorable.

 

You really are a bottom-feeder.

 

You just stepped into his trap. Enjoy your holiday.

[talahtnut]

15 hours ago, Grouse said:

It is not about leaving the union it is a matter of breach of agreement. I am old enough to remember when our word was our bond. Alas, no more. 

 

Again, Brexiteers show their true colours (to varying degrees)

Don Barnio is no gentlman.

[Jip99]

1 minute ago, Khun Han said:

 

You just stepped into his trap. Enjoy your holiday.

 

LOL ?....... not planning on a trip until next week.....

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

My issue is with the EU. I have never agreed being in it and given the first chance to vote out I have. a bit like your perusal of an independent Scotland.

 

The UK lost credibility when it gave away its fishing rights to the EU, as well as farming in the UK. The UK should just walk away, forget the bribe money they are suppose to pay the EU and say rollocks to any default.

QED

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I think everyone knows the EU don't want anyone else to leave and are making it as difficult as possible, for the UK. That sort of attitude just shows to me that we did the right thing and voted leave. If the EU was more flexible and wasn't 'hell bent' on the unification of Europe then the UK possibly could have voted remain. Either way it shows just what the EU organization is about. With that attitude I wouldn't want to do business with them. I could do without French wine, cheese and German cars, as an example.

 

I am sure this attitude will only make more people to see the EU as a dictatorship that it is.

It's rather more subtle than that

 

Certainly the EU will not offer the UK a good deal partly for the reasons you cite.

 

However, making clear that remedies will be sought if the UK is in breach seems wise to me. ( according to degree)

[talahtnut]

15 hours ago, Grouse said:

It's rather more subtle than that

 

Certainly the EU will not offer the UK a good deal partly for the reasons you cite.

 

However, making clear that remedies will be sought if the UK is in breach seems wise to me. ( according to degree)

If the EU can't honour a democratic decision with grace,  there is a greater reason to leave.

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, talahtnut said:

If the EU can't honour a democratic decision with grace,  there is a greater reason to leave.

They are honouring the decision. Why should they offer a good trade deal?

[talahtnut]

15 hours ago, Grouse said:

They are honouring the decision. Why should they offer a good trade deal?

'Honouring' / Demanding money with menace is unlawful.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Ironically, the fears expressed by Brexiteers lift the veil on their own inner thoughts. It is the Brexiteers themselves who can not be trusted and our EU friends see it clearly. They don't trust the UK to keep to what was agreed of the Irish question and they don't trust the UK not to try and damage the EU club of like minded souls who have lived and prospered together in relative peace all these decades. They are correct. I'll bet in will be the UK that breaches any agreement reached.

It is precisely the behaviour of David Davis after the prior agreement was made that has prompted the EU to insist on what will happen in the event of UK backsliding and it is precisely the shambolic internal disagreements from within the UK side (daren't call it a team) which has obliged the EU to point out procedures. Theresa May should have sacked Davis. He is a complete liability. Hard Brexiteers prefer on the other hand another comedian namely Rees-Mogg. All a bit sad really.

Edited February 7, 2018 by SheungWan

[Grouse]

16 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

If the EU can't honour a democratic decision with grace,  there is a greater reason to leave.

They are honouring the decision. Why should they offer a good trade deal?

[SheungWan]

15 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

If the EU can't honour a democratic decision with grace,  there is a greater reason to leave.

Nothing to do with a decision, but everything to do with implementation which are not the same thing. Sometimes Brexiteer cheerleaders just don't seem to have the faintest clue other than tub-thumping.