May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[AlexRich]

42 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

In which case they really are in denial.....

 

Leaving it until other EU countries have elected politicians whose platform was anti immigration and EU, has to be a bad idea.

 

Agreed. But that's what they are doing. Le Pen is not a shoe-in for France and neither is the 5 Star Movement for Italy. And should they get enough votes they will still have to convince their populations that they are better off out of the EU and the Euro ... that's a tougher task than Brexit ... possible, but not a certainty for now.

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Happy to read that I'm not the only one thinking negotiations are already happening between the UK and EU!

 

It's all been decided

 

Have you worked it out yet?

 

Ironically, TM is going through the "motions".

[SgtRock]

12 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Happy to read that I'm not the only one thinking negotiations are already happening between the UK and EU!

 

They will be happening without a doubt.

 

What we have is a bunch of stupid little Junior EU Ministers spitting the dummy and stamping their little feet because they are not party to those negotations.

 

An example

 

Quote

In my meeting with David Davis I unfortunately received no new insight into how the British government pictures Brexit,” Weber, an ally of German Chancellor Angela Merkel who leads the EU parliament’s Christian Democrats, told reporters in Strasbourg, France. “There is no idea what Brexit really means.”

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-22/eu-leaders-blast-may-government-s-state-of-brexit-preparedness

 

Given that you are a bit of a non-entity, coupled with the fact that you are an ally, and of the same Party as Merkel. Anybody with more than a single brain cell would and should, stick hot needles in their eyes before they would tell you anything.

 

Of course, in the deluded and totally detached world the EU Politicians live in, that equates to '' There is no idea what Brexit really means ''

[Orac]

 
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-22/eu-leaders-blast-may-government-s-state-of-brexit-preparedness
 
Given that you are a bit of a non-entity, coupled with the fact that you are an ally, and of the same Party as Merkel. Anybody with more than a single brain cell would and should, stick hot needles in their eyes before they would tell you anything.
 
Of course, in the deluded and totally detached world the EU Politicians live in, that equates to '' There is no idea what Brexit really means ''

If this guy is such a non-entity then why did David Davis have a meeting with him or are you suggesting that our Minister for Brexit does not have 'more than a single brain cell' and needs hot needles sticking in his eyes.

There is also Michel Barnier who Davis requested a meeting with who made the following statement.

"This morning courtesy visit from @daviddavismp at his request. No negotiation without notification. My work is now focused on EU27. #Brexit."

[SgtRock]

1 minute ago, Orac said:

 

If this guy is such a non-entity then why did David Davis have a meeting with him or are you suggesting that our Minister for Brexit does not have 'more than a single brain cell' and needs hot needles sticking in his eyes.

There is also Michel Barnier who Davis requested a meeting with who made the following statement.

"This morning courtesy visit from @daviddavismp at his request. No negotiation without notification. My work is now focused on EU27. #Brexit."

 

 

 

 

 

 

Barnier's tweet is following the official line. No negotiation before A50 is invoked. Which Barnier should be applauded for. The correct and sensible thing to say. 

 

51 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

Given that you are a bit of a non-entity, coupled with the fact that you are an ally, and of the same Party as Merkel. Anybody with more than a single brain cell would and should, stick hot needles in their eyes before they would tell you anything.

 

If you cannot read and understand this, then I will not waste my time trying to explain it to you.

 

Davis and Verhofstadt have both been appointed as chief negotiators for the UK and the EU.

 

What they have to say is what is important. 

 

Quote

Brexit Secretary David Davis has described his meeting with the European Parliament's chief negotiator Guy Verhofstadt as a "good start".

Although they could not negotiate yet, he said their discussions had been able to cover structures and how both sides propose to approach the Brexit talks.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38061035

 

[evadgib]

Brexit FAQs from HMG:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/frequently-asked-questions

 

[Orac]

 
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38061035
 

Of course it is important yet you went off on one about a non-entity rather than Verhofstadt who was mentioned in the same article that you linked to.

Incidently, Verhofstadt also tweeted before the meeting that he was looking forward to his encounter with Davis and pointed out that Davis had referred to him a satan a couple of weeks before:

"Get thee behind me, Satan!” he honked, when asked about the European Parliament’s chief Brexit negotiator, Guy Verhofstadt."

[SgtRock]

7 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

Of course it is important yet you went off on one about a non-entity rather than Verhofstadt who was mentioned in the same article that you linked to.

Incidently, Verhofstadt also tweeted before the meeting that he was looking forward to his encounter with Davis and pointed out that Davis had referred to him a satan a couple of weeks before:

"Get thee behind me, Satan!” he honked, when asked about the European Parliament’s chief Brexit negotiator, Guy Verhofstadt."
 

 

 

In my original link Verhofstadt is reported to have said:

 

Quote

Guy Verhofstadt, the European Parliament’s representative on Brexit matters who also met with Davis, reiterated the necessary link between access to the single market and the free movement of people while also saying that there was common ground on the timing of the U.K.’s departure.

“We agreed on the need that this process needs to start as early as possible and needs to finish, in any case, before the next European elections” in mid-2019, Verhofstadt told reporters. He also cautioned that the window for negotiations could be as short as 14 or 15 months, which will make the talks “very intense.”

 

Contrast the measured, sensible words of Verhofstadt, to the the idiotic words of the non entity, who is doing nothing more than throwing his teddy and stamping his feet.

 

Hence there was no reason to mention Verhofstadt.

[Orac]

 
Contrast the measured, sensible words of Verhofstadt, to the the idiotic words of the non entity, who is doing nothing more than throwing his teddy and stamping his feet.
 
Hence there was no reason to mention Verhofstadt.

All Weber appears to have said (quoting from your link) is:

"In my meeting with David Davis I unfortunately received no new insight into how the British government pictures Brexit,” Weber, an ally of German Chancellor Angela Merkel who leads the EU parliament’s Christian Democrats, told reporters in Strasbourg, France. “There is no idea what Brexit really means.”


Which is little more than every man and his dog has been asking for some time now - hardly teddy throwing, foot stamping language.

[AlexRich]

14 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Happy to read that I'm not the only one thinking negotiations are already happening between the UK and EU!

 

14 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Happy to read that I'm not the only one thinking negotiations are already happening between the UK and EU!

 

29 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

In my original link Verhofstadt is reported to have said:

 

 

Contrast the measured, sensible words of Verhofstadt, to the the idiotic words of the non entity, who is doing nothing more than throwing his teddy and stamping his feet.

 

Hence there was no reason to mention Verhofstadt.

 

15 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

All Weber appears to have said (quoting from your link) is:

"In my meeting with David Davis I unfortunately received no new insight into how the British government pictures Brexit,” Weber, an ally of German Chancellor Angela Merkel who leads the EU parliament’s Christian Democrats, told reporters in Strasbourg, France. “There is no idea what Brexit really means.”


Which is little more than every man and his dog has been asking for some time now - hardly teddy throwing, foot stamping language.

 

 

Negotiations are already happening? It looks more like the EU are turning on the screws with their demand for an impossibly short negotiation period ... hardly a negotiation when both sides refuse to discuss what each other wants, the EU as a negotiation tactic, and the UK because it doesn't know ... it hasn't quite worked that out yet! 

 

Fiasco is the word your looking for.

 

 

 

 

[SgtRock]

17 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

All Weber appears to have said (quoting from your link) is:

"In my meeting with David Davis I unfortunately received no new insight into how the British government pictures Brexit,” Weber, an ally of German Chancellor Angela Merkel who leads the EU parliament’s Christian Democrats, told reporters in Strasbourg, France. “There is no idea what Brexit really means.”


Which is little more than every man and his dog has been asking for some time now - hardly teddy throwing, foot stamping language.

 

 

And every man and his dog has been told the same thing.

 

As there will be NO negotiations before A50 is invoked, there is no need to divulge any information, or discuss negotiation details.

 

This is not difficult to understand.

 

What it does not mean, contrary to what the non entity is saying:

 

Quote

“There is no idea what Brexit really means.”
 

 

Which is nothing more than a little feet stamping strop.

 

It is a need to know basis, and he obviously, at this stage, does not need to know.

[AlexRich]

36 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

In my original link Verhofstadt is reported to have said:

 

 

Contrast the measured, sensible words of Verhofstadt, to the the idiotic words of the non entity, who is doing nothing more than throwing his teddy and stamping his feet.

 

Hence there was no reason to mention Verhofstadt.

 

If it's political non-entities your looking for ... book no further than David Davis. I'm sure he has a long list of achievements to his name ... unfortunately I can't think of any?

 

 

[Orac]

 
Which is nothing more than a little feet stamping strop.
 
It is a need to know basis, and he obviously, at this stage, does not need to know.

As I said earlier, for Davis to want to meet with him and also, from your linked article

"Weber’s comments sent sterling down 0.6 percent to $1.2421 at 2:32 p.m. in London. The pound is up from a low this year of $1.2123 reached on Oct. 11."

maybe you need to review your definition of non-entity.

[AlexRich]

Sgt Rock - 2 hours ago

 

"They will be happening without a doubt". [negotiations]

 

Sgt Rock - 8 minutes ago

 

"As there will be NO negotiations before A50 is invoked, there is no need to divulge any information, or discuss negotiation details".

 

 

 

 

 

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, Orac said:

 

 

As I said earlier, for Davis to want to meet with him and also, from your linked article

"Weber’s comments sent sterling down 0.6 percent to $1.2421 at 2:32 p.m. in London. The pound is up from a low this year of $1.2123 reached on Oct. 11."

maybe you need to review your definition of non-entity.

 

 

 

"maybe you need to review your definition of non-entity".

 

= David Davis

 

Pre- referendum leaving the EU was easy, post-referendum it's now complex? A man out of his depth.

[SgtRock]

2 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

 

As I said earlier, for Davis to want to meet with him and also, from your linked article

"Weber’s comments sent sterling down 0.6 percent to $1.2421 at 2:32 p.m. in London. The pound is up from a low this year of $1.2123 reached on Oct. 11."

maybe you need to review your definition of non-entity.

 

 

 

Where is the euro at in relation to the $ ?

 

Nothing but a red herring.

[Orac]

 
Where is the euro at in relation to the $ ?
 
Nothing but a red herring.

Not sure of the relevance but EUR is up against the USD overnight whereas GBP dropped.

Longer term EUR is up about 2.5% in the last year against the dollar and GBP has dropped about 18%

[SgtRock]

On 11/23/2016 at 1:12 PM, Orac said:

 

Not sure of the relevance but EUR is up against the USD overnight whereas GBP dropped.

Longer term EUR is up about 2.5% in the last year against the dollar and GBP has dropped about 18%

 

 

???????

 

The EUR has went from a high of 1.15 to the $ to its current of 1.06 over the past 6 months.

 

Quote

Currency Vigilantes Ready to Strike Again as Italian Vote Looms

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-20/currency-vigilantes-ready-to-strike-again-as-italian-vote-looms

 

Bookmark this page and please come back and tell me where the EUR is against the $ in 3 weeks.

[SgtRock]

Do you deem the current, ongoing Greek saga to be a bit of a crisis ? Not only for the euro / EZ, but the EU as a whole.

 

Another stunning example of the EU working in harmony, singing from the same song sheet and being able and willing to take strong, decisive action in the event of a crisis.

 

Quote

Clock ticking for EU to reach IMF deal on Greece

 

Quote

The eurozone is running out of time to secure an agreement this year on International Monetary Fund participation in Greece’s €86bn bailout amid splits over the country’s economic reforms, budget targets and debt relief.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/2c5565fa-b0da-11e6-9c37-5787335499a0

 

A last gasp agreement will be reached. Greece must be kept in the euro / EZ at all costs.

Edited November 26, 2016 by metisdead
Oversize font in quoted content reset to normal.

[Orac]

 
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-20/currency-vigilantes-ready-to-strike-again-as-italian-vote-looms
 
Bookmark this page and please come back and tell me where the EUR is against the $ in 3 weeks.

I used 1 year as a comparison as the 6 month figures would start just a month before the referendum and there was a bit of volatility then but, for info, EUR is down 5% and sterling down 14% against USD.

As for predicting exchange rates into the future, I will leave that to the experts for now after seeing someones prediction of sterling strengthening exponentially in October go massively wide of the mark.

[SgtRock]

1 minute ago, Orac said:

 

I used 1 year as a comparison as the 6 month figures would start just a month before the referendum and there was a bit of volatility then but, for info, EUR is down 5% and sterling down 14% against USD.

As for predicting exchange rates into the future, I will leave that to the experts for now after seeing someones prediction of sterling strengthening exponentially in October go massively wide of the mark.

 

 

I am not predicting the exchange rate for the future. I kindly requested that you bookmark the page and come back in 3 weeks, citing the source of why I have done so.

 

I have already explained why my October prediction was so massively wide of the mark. This was due to the ECB quietly extending and expanding its programme of QE to the tune of a massive euro 80 Billion a month for a further 6 months. Taking it up to a total of euro 1.9 Trillion.

 

Draghi and the ECB are currently treading in quicksand. 

 

Do not think I need to say much more.

[Khun Han]

There were preliminary meetings to discuss negotiation procedure, and Eurocrats are whingeing that the UK didn't show it's negotiating hand at those preliminaries! They were either showboating for their European audiences, or they're getting a bit twitchy.

[jimmybkk]

3 hours ago, AlexRich said:

 

"maybe you need to review your definition of non-entity".

 

= David Davis

 

Pre- referendum leaving the EU was easy, post-referendum it's now complex? A man out of his depth.

 

Cameron to the CBI in November 2015: "Today I want to debunk an argument that's sometimes put around by those who say: 'Stay in Europe come what may...' Some people seem to say that really, Britain couldn't survive, couldn't do OK, outside the European Union... I don't think that is true."

 

Cameron to MPs in the Commons in January 2016: "“This is the choice of the British people, they can either choose to stay in a reformed European Union or leave the European Union. Come what may I will continue to lead the government in the way I have."

 

Despite your speculation that it was a foregone conclusion that Cameron would resign if the country voted for Brexit, the message he was sending publicly was quite different. Looks a lot like Cameron was spreading disinformation about his intentions with the sole purpose of throwing a stick into the spokes of Brexit, and to be fair, he made a pretty good job of it.

 

It was Cameron's job to create a plan for Brexit and he completely failed to do so. Why are you so intent on pointing the finger of blame at those who were left to pick up the pieces after Cameron threw his stick and slithered off into the bushes?

 

[AlexRich]

2 hours ago, Orac said:

 

I used 1 year as a comparison as the 6 month figures would start just a month before the referendum and there was a bit of volatility then but, for info, EUR is down 5% and sterling down 14% against USD.

As for predicting exchange rates into the future, I will leave that to the experts for now after seeing someones prediction of sterling strengthening exponentially in October go massively wide of the mark.

 

 

I wonder whose prediction could have been so wrong?

 

[SgtRock]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

There were preliminary meetings to discuss negotiation procedure, and Eurocrats are whingeing that the UK didn't show it's negotiating hand at those preliminaries! They were either showboating for their European audiences, or they're getting a bit twitchy.

 

There will always be a bit of showboating on both sides, that is to be expected. Which is why I pointed out above that the only information that I am interested in, is the information that comes direct from the 2 appointed chief negotiators, Davis and Verhofstadt.

 

Every other mouthpiece, that has got something to say, should shut up, stop causing confusion, which will become damaging to both sides. That includes Merkel and Schauble, who are German politicians, not EU politicians.

 

Having said that, the EUrocrats will also be getting twitchy. The bad news keeps piling up for them, so it is easier to attack Brexit and try to deflect from other growing problems.

 

The problem for the EU and some posters on this thread do not seem to understand, these problems are potentially less than 3 weeks away.

 

2 elections on 04 December, which are currently being reported as being bad results for the EU, as well as the euro / EZ.

 

A Fed interest rate is now being reported as 100% certain for December, which is again being widely reported as heaping more pressure on the euro.

 

A major Italian bank that has to raise over euro 5 Billion, offload euro 28 Billion of toxic debt by the end of the year, if it is to survive.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-23/crunch-time-for-monte-paschi-and-italy-as-share-sale-looms

 

No need to worry. Its all good in the EU 

[AlexRich]

8 minutes ago, jimmybkk said:

 

Cameron to the CBI in November 2015: "Today I want to debunk an argument that's sometimes put around by those who say: 'Stay in Europe come what may...' Some people seem to say that really, Britain couldn't survive, couldn't do OK, outside the European Union... I don't think that is true."

 

Cameron to MPs in the Commons in January 2016: "“This is the choice of the British people, they can either choose to stay in a reformed European Union or leave the European Union. Come what may I will continue to lead the government in the way I have."

 

Despite your speculation that it was a foregone conclusion that Cameron would resign if the country voted for Brexit, the message he was sending publicly was quite different. Looks a lot like Cameron was spreading disinformation about his intentions with the sole purpose of throwing a stick into the spokes of Brexit, and to be fair, he made a pretty good job of it.

 

It was Cameron's job to create a plan for Brexit and he completely failed to do so. Why are you so intent on pointing the finger of blame at those who were left to pick up the pieces after Cameron threw his stick and slithered off into the bushes?

 

 

David Davis wanted Brexit, Cameron did not. And I'll state again, Cameron had no choice but to resign ... him going was inevitable. He'd already stated he'd be gone by 2020. As for being outside the EU, I don't want to do okay, I want strong economic growth and trading, not the next two years of disappointing news flow as reality bites. 

 

Now its for those that wanted it to lead us to the land of milk and honey ... and its only just dawning on Davis that his pre-referendum beliefs about how easy this will all be are proving to be wrong. So a cabal of mediocre politicians will lead us through the most difficult period since the wars. Hooray! For England and St George!

 

 

[SgtRock]

9 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

I wonder whose prediction could have been so wrong?

 

 

All those that were trembling, biting their lips and filling their nappies claiming £ - $ parity within a week of the Brexit vote.

[SgtRock]

4 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

David Davis wanted Brexit, Cameron did not. And I'll state again, Cameron had no choice but to resign ... him going was inevitable. He'd already stated he'd be gone by 2020. As for being outside the EU, I don't want to do okay, I want strong economic growth and trading, not the next two years of disappointing news flow as reality bites. 

 

Now its for those that wanted it to lead us to the land of milk and honey ... and its only just dawning on Davis that his pre-referendum beliefs about how easy this will all be are proving to be wrong. So a cabal of mediocre politicians will lead us through the most difficult period since the wars. Hooray! For England and St George!

 

 

 

You are beginning to sound more like a very grousey person every day 

[Khun Han]

9 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

There will always be a bit of showboating on both sides, that is to be expected. Which is why I pointed out above that the only information that I am interested in, is the information that comes direct from the 2 appointed chief negotiators, Davis and Verhofstadt.

 

Every other mouthpiece, that has got something to say, should shut up, stop causing confusion, which will become damaging to both sides. That includes Merkel and Schauble, who are German politicians, not EU politicians.

 

Having said that, the EUrocrats will also be getting twitchy. The bad news keeps piling up for them, so it is easier to attack Brexit and try to deflect from other growing problems.

 

The problem for the EU and some posters on this thread do not seem to understand, these problems are potentially less than 3 weeks away.

 

2 elections on 04 December, which are currently being reported as being bad results for the EU, as well as the euro / EZ.

 

A Fed interest rate is now being reported as 100% certain for December, which is again being widely reported as heaping more pressure on the euro.

 

A major Italian bank that has to raise over euro 5 Billion, offload euro 28 Billion of toxic debt by the end of the year, if it is to survive.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-23/crunch-time-for-monte-paschi-and-italy-as-share-sale-looms

 

No need to worry. Its all good in the EU 

 

Yes, it's interesting that Merkel and Schaeuble are speaking on behalf of Europe far more than other non Eurocrat European politicians, isn't it?

[SgtRock]

6 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Yes, it's interesting that Merkel and Schaeuble are speaking on behalf of Europe far more than other non Eurocrat European politicians, isn't it?

 

Not really, if you are willing to accept that Germany is actually running the EU.

 

The problem with admitting it is that you can then kick the 7 EU Institutions into the nearest skip as they are not needed.