May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Grouse]

13 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Well, one good thing is coming from Brexit. The Conservatives are somewhat relenting in their punishment of the working class.

 

Are you being facetious?

 

The Con party are reducing their working credits CUT by a quarter but still going ahead with the other 75% of the cuts

 

At the same time they are reducing corporation tax to 17%

 

They are also raising the higher income tax bracket to 50,000, giving an immediate hand out to the better off

 

Pensions triple lock only until 2020

 

borrowing going up to 90% of GDP

 

122 Billion of new borrowing 

 

Brexit likely to cut growth by 2.4%

 

Fallon blames all this on Brexit

 

So well done Brexiteers and thank you

 

And for all you numpties, you can always rely on the Con party to stuff you and take care of big business as the priority 

 

Silly people ?

[AlexRich]

4 hours ago, SgtRock said:

 

Hiding behind sanctions is taking decisive actions ? Each to their own.

 

Let me remind you about the only major crisis the EU has faced, The Balkans. A brilliant example of decisive action. So good in fact, they had to call in the NATO and the UN.

 

Do a bit of research on what the initial causes of the breakup of Yugoslavia was, to help you out, it was one of the things that is currently happening in the EU, think Slovenia.

 

Nice to see you are conflating individual Countries as a whole, rather than the EU as a whole. As has been said repeatedly, there are not too many people that have any issues with Individual Countries within the EU, the problem is the EU and its institutions.

 

 

The EU has the resources ? What are you smoking ? The EU has very little in the way of resources. Individual Countries within the EU have the resources, not the EU.

 

 

Is that what you really think. At least 16 Countries have had those foisted on them in return for ( Bribes ) financial incentives.

 

No wars ? That is down to NATO, not the EU.

 

 

It never happened because very few Countries have risen above the 2008 crash.

 

And I fail to see how a direct warning from the ECB

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-24/ecb-warns-of-market-correction-as-political-instability-spreads

 

Can be construed as me cherry picking anything.

 

Nice attempt, but another epic fail.

 

 

Pointless answering your questions ... as no example is ever good enough ... and never would be. My argument will only have failed if the EU goes into your predicted meltdown. So I wait patiently for that outcome to happen ... I think I'll have a long wait.

 

"it never happened because few countries have risen above the 2008 crash"? 

 

What a pitiful answer. The point I was making is that 'predictions' are ten a penny, but extreme predictions rarely come true because there is a wide range of possibilities. 

 

ECB warns of market correction if instability spreads? You don't say ... I'm looking forward to 4 December and hoping for a bit of that myself. 

 

 

 

[SgtRock]

European Parliament President Martin Schultze has announced that he is stepping down.

 

Quote

European Parliament President Martin Schulz said he’ll vacate his post and run for a lower-house seat in Germany, marking him as one of Chancellor Angela Merkel’s potential challengers in next year’s election.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-24/martin-schulz-to-leave-brussels-to-seek-german-parliament-seat

 

Step down as the European Parliament President to run for a lower house seat in Germany. Sure Schultz, of course you are.

 

He further said:

 

Quote

More than ever, the world needs a united European Union,” Schulz told reporters in Brussels on Thursday. “From now on, I will fight for this project from the national level. Only by doing this will it be possible to regain the lost trust.”

 

Is there some reason that you think you will be able to fight a better fight for the project as a German Lower House Politician than you will as the European Parliament President ?

 

He is either far more deluded than I thought, or it is the beginning of the rats leaving a sinking ship.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2016 by metisdead
Oversize font in quoted content reset to normal.

[SaintLouisBlues]

On 11/24/2016 at 0:14 PM, ilostmypassword said:

Well, one good thing is coming from Brexit. The Conservatives are somewhat relenting in their punishment of the working class.

I do find partisan comments somewhat unenlightening

[Orac]

On 11/25/2016 at 7:53 AM, SgtRock said:

European Parliament President Martin Schultze has announced that he is stepping down.

 

Quote

European Parliament President Martin Schulz said he’ll vacate his post and run for a lower-house seat in Germany, marking him as one of Chancellor Angela Merkel’s potential challengers in next year’s election.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-24/martin-schulz-to-leave-brussels-to-seek-german-parliament-seat

 

Step down as the European Parliament President to run for a lower house seat in Germany. Sure Schultz, of course you are.

 

He further said:

 

Quote

More than ever, the world needs a united European Union,” Schulz told reporters in Brussels on Thursday. “From now on, I will fight for this project from the national level. Only by doing this will it be possible to regain the lost trust.”

 

Is there some reason that you think you will be able to fight a better fight for the project as a German Lower House Politician than you will as the European Parliament President ?

 

He is either far more deluded than I thought, or it is the beginning of the rats leaving a sinking ship.

 

 ------------------------

Did you even bother reading the article you linked to?

"Schulz is due to step down in mid-January. Under a 2014 power-sharing deal between the European People’s Party and the Socialists, the EU Parliament’s two biggest groups, Schulz was given an unprecedented second term as president until January 2017 and the post was to be filled by an EPP candidate until the end of the legislative period in mid-2019. "

Edited November 26, 2016 by metisdead
Please do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes or wording.

[SgtRock]

 

And the round robin continues

 

You need to try and make it less obvious.

Edited November 25, 2016 by SgtRock

[Orac]

 
And the round robin continues
 
You need to try and make it less obvious.

You asked a question and i answered it - I don't know how less obvious i could do that or maybe I am missing the point of this discussion.

[SgtRock]

18 minutes ago, Orac said:

Did you even bother reading the article you linked to?

"Schulz is due to step down in mid-January. Under a 2014 power-sharing deal between the European People’s Party and the Socialists, the EU Parliament’s two biggest groups, Schulz was given an unprecedented second term as president until January 2017 and the post was to be filled by an EPP candidate until the end of the legislative period in mid-2019. "

 

Then why is he announcing he is stepping down and making a song and dance about it ?

 

Listen to the video attached to this article, obviously ignoring the fact it is in the express.

 

IT DESTROYS YOUR ABOVE POST.

 

'' I have decided not to run for a 3rd term and return to German politics ''

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/736038/European-Union-Jean-Claude-Juncker-resign-Angela-Merkel-Martin-Schulz-quits-EU

 

Well done RR, not like you to be backing the wrong horse 

 

 

 

[Orac]

 
Then why is he announcing he is stepping down and making a song and dance about it ?
 
Listen to the video attached to this article, obviously ignoring the fact it is in the express.
 
IT DESTROYS YOUR ABOVE POST.
 
'' I have decided not to run for a 3rd term and return to German politics ''
 
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/736038/European-Union-Jean-Claude-Juncker-resign-Angela-Merkel-Martin-Schulz-quits-EU
 
Well done RR, not like you to be backing the wrong horse 
 
 
 

No idea what you are blathering on about. As the first link you provided which i quoted from clearly stated, he made a deal in 2014 to step down in Jan 2017 and he is clearly honouring it. That other key figures (according to the Daily Express which is not exactly reliable when it comes to rumours) want him to stay is not a surprise and, if so, might explain why he is making this clear statement now.

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

Well done RR, not like you to be backing the wrong horse 

 

For a man with history of predictions as yours, you come across as very sure of yourself. I applaud your staunch resolve and self-confidence in the face of overwhelming evidence to suggest that it is unwarranted.

[SgtRock]

Just now, Orac said:

 

No idea what you are blathering on about. As the first link you provided which i quoted from clearly stated, he made a deal in 2014 to step down in Jan 2017 and he is clearly honouring it. That other key figures (according to the Daily Express which is not exactly reliable when it comes to rumours) want him to stay is not a surprise and, if so, might explain why he is making this clear statement now.

 

 

Of course you do not, because you did not watch the video, which is from the European Parliament TV, but the link to it, which I specifically said to ignore is the express.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/736038/European-Union-Jean-Claude-Juncker-resign-Angela-Merkel-Martin-Schulz-quits-EU

 

Quote

he made a deal in 2014 to step down in Jan 2017 and he is clearly honouring it.

 

 

Really.

 

I hear him specifically say that '' He will not run for a 3rd term '' Contrary to the garbage that you post here:

 

46 minutes ago, Orac said:

Did you even bother reading the article you linked to?

"Schulz is due to step down in mid-January. Under a 2014 power-sharing deal between the European People’s Party and the Socialists, the EU Parliament’s two biggest groups, Schulz was given an unprecedented second term as president until January 2017 and the post was to be filled by an EPP candidate until the end of the legislative period in mid-2019. "

 

Try watching the video, it will stop you making a fool of yourself.

[SgtRock]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

For a man with history of predictions as yours, you come across as very sure of yourself. I applaud your staunch resolve and self-confidence in the face of overwhelming evidence to suggest that it is unwarranted.

 

Is that it RR. Is that your best shot ?

 

My history of predictions ?

 

Like Scottish Independence not happening ?

 

Like Brexit winning ?

 

Like Trump winning ?

 

I applaud your staunch but totally unwarranted support of the SNP, under who, Scotland will never gain the Independence that you crave 

[Orac]

I am getting confused. I did watch the video and yes it did say that he will not run for a 3rd term which is exactly what he committed to in the 2014 agreement that was in you quoted link. Had he said that he was going to run for a 3rd term then clearly that would be an issue.

[SgtRock]

1 minute ago, Orac said:

I am getting confused.

 

I know 

[Orac]

So why all this ridiculous, over the top drama which is very clearly explained in your own link.

------

Your question

"  
Is there some reason that you think you will be able to fight a better fight for the project as a German Lower House Politician than you will as the European Parliament President ?
 
He is either far more deluded than I thought, or it is the beginning of the rats leaving a sinking ship."

-------

It is incredibly simple - his term is up in Jan 2017 and, by tradition and prior agreement, he will not be standing again.

[SgtRock]

1 hour ago, Orac said:

So why all this ridiculous, over the top drama which is very clearly explained in your own link.

------

Your question

"  
Is there some reason that you think you will be able to fight a better fight for the project as a German Lower House Politician than you will as the European Parliament President ?
 
He is either far more deluded than I thought, or it is the beginning of the rats leaving a sinking ship."

-------

It is incredibly simple - his term is up in Jan 2017 and, by tradition and prior agreement, he will not be standing again.

 

If it was that simple, by tradition and prior agreement, then why would he have to call a press conference to say:

 

And I quote:

 

Quote

Over the past month there has been a lot of speculation about my future.

 

Why would there be speculation about his future if by tradition and prior agreement, it was already decided and crystal clear ?

 

Quote

I have now made a decision, I will not run for the PEP for a 3rd term

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/736038/European-Union-Jean-Claude-Juncker-resign-Angela-Merkel-Martin-Schulz-quits-EU

 

Why would he make a decision now, when it was already decided by tradition and prior agreement ?

 

Politicians never lie.

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

On 11/23/2016 at 11:17 PM, Grouse said:

 

Everyone except you loses with Brexit.

 

TM is trying to do the "right thing" whilst keeping the numpties happy.

 

I would stay in and give the numpties a free six pack of beer in compensation!

How is this sort of derogatory comment ever conducive to promoting genuine, intelligent discussion?

[SaintLouisBlues]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

How is this sort of derogatory comment ever conducive to promoting genuine, intelligent discussion?

I assumed it was an attempt at humor. Lighten up.

[SgtRock]

3 minutes ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

I assumed it was an attempt at humor. Lighten up.

 

You assumed wrong 

[SaintLouisBlues]

Just now, SgtRock said:

You assumed wrong 

And you're basing that on ... ?

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, SaintLouisBlues said:

I assumed it was an attempt at humor. Lighten up.

Depressingly , I've been following these threads since just before the brexit vote - and can assure you that there is no attempt at humour - just a relentless opinion that anyone who voted brexit is unintelligent/uneducated,  and their opinion (based on their own lives) is unworthy of consideration....

[SaintLouisBlues]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

Depressingly , I've been following these threads since just before the brexit vote - and can assure you that there is no attempt at humour - just a relentless opinion that anyone who voted brexit is unintelligent/uneducated,  and their opinion (based on their own lives) is unworthy of consideration....

Pretty much everyone's opinion on anything under the sun is "unworthy of consideration". Most people have perceptions, and pretty much their perceptions are not based on a consideration of the facts as a whole but on the facts (if at all) that have been selected via "confirmation bias". They then riposte those who do not share those opinions with ad hominem remarks, not logical arguments. So while it's occasionally interesting to read someone else's perceptions I mostly regard life as one huge joke and (confirmation bias) assume others do too. It was after all that old British rogue Horace Walpole who said " The world is a comedy to those that think; a tragedy to those that feel". You can see it in almost every thread in every Internet forum. You might also find Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement an interesting read.

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Depressingly , I've been following these threads since just before the brexit vote - and can assure you that there is no attempt at humour - just a relentless opinion that anyone who voted brexit is unintelligent/uneducated,  and their opinion (based on their own lives) is unworthy of consideration....

 

They are of course not all uneducated ... but most people that would be classified as on the lower education rung voted Brexit, same scenario for Donald Trump. 

 

Anti-establishment vote leads to establishment Tory administration and pro-business (elites) Trump presidency. What happened to "lock her up" and "£350m per week to the NHS"? 

 

 

 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Depressingly , I've been following these threads since just before the brexit vote - and can assure you that there is no attempt at humour - just a relentless opinion that anyone who voted brexit is unintelligent/uneducated,  and their opinion (based on their own lives) is unworthy of consideration....

 

I agree with you 100%.

 

Grouse does not have a sense of humour.

 

That is why he is on my ignore list and I only see his posts if somebody answers him. I dont bother to comment on most of them either as, to me, he is not worth bothering with.

 

 

[SaintLouisBlues]

3 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Anti-establishment vote leads to establishment Tory administration and pro-business (elites) Trump presidency. What happened to "lock her up" and "£350m per week to the NHS"? 

Anyone who believes a single "promise" uttered during any election campaign by any candidate has simply not been following along

[SgtRock]

11 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

They are of course not all uneducated ... but most people that would be classified as on the lower education rung voted Brexit, same scenario for Donald Trump. 

 

Anti-establishment vote leads to establishment Tory administration and pro-business (elites) Trump presidency. What happened to "lock her up" and "£350m per week to the NHS"? 

 

Could you provide the source of who actually said '' Give the NHS £350m per week ?

 

The reason am I asking is I do not believe that it was ever said.

 

What I believe happened, is that some highly intelligent remoaners took one look at this

 

 

And decided it actually said '' Lets give the NHS £350m a week'' rather than what it actually says.

 

Edited November 25, 2016 by SgtRock

[SgtRock]

1 hour ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

And you're basing that on ... ?

 

Having the ability to read and comprehend English.

 

Nothing more, nothing less.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, SaintLouisBlues said:

Pretty much everyone's opinion on anything under the sun is "unworthy of consideration". Most people have perceptions, and pretty much their perceptions are not based on a consideration of the facts as a whole but on the facts (if at all) that have been selected via "confirmation bias". They then riposte those who do not share those opinions with ad hominem remarks, not logical arguments. So while it's occasionally interesting to read someone else's perceptions I mostly regard life as one huge joke and (confirmation bias) assume others do too. It was after all that old British rogue Horace Walpole who said " The world is a comedy to those that think; a tragedy to those that feel". You can see it in almost every thread in every Internet forum. You might also find Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement an interesting read.

Very true.  But most of us don't spend our time on Thaivisa saying that everyone that disagrees with their opinion is uneducated and stupid! 

[dick dasterdly]

17 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

They are of course not all uneducated ... but most people that would be classified as on the lower education rung voted Brexit, same scenario for Donald Trump. 

 

Anti-establishment vote leads to establishment Tory administration and pro-business (elites) Trump presidency. What happened to "lock her up" and "£350m per week to the NHS"? 

 

 

 

Re. the last part of the second paragraph - I agree.

 

And Grouse said exactly the same thing a while ago....

[jpinx]

The arrogance is exceeded only by the narrow-ness of the views promoted.  Opinions based on no facts are worthless, and since the paucity of facts is extensive, there is little in the preceding 60-odd pages worth reading.  This thread demonstrates why forums are a very poor medium for actual debate.