Fining Yingluck For Rice Subsidy In 'Grey Area,' Critic Of Policy Says

[robblok]

Just now, heybruce said:

In other words, I cite 2012 figures from a credible source on regional GDP and government spending, you cite 2013 Wikipedia figures on regional GDP and speculate on government spending, and you state your figures and speculation are superior.

 

I'll let the readers decide who has the more credible data.

My figures are more recent.. than your figures.. seems good enough for me. 

 

You could not find anything more recent (neither could I) about spending.. but given the rice scam and big projects like railway and dams going on outside of BKK its fair to say it totally shifted. 

[heybruce]

8 minutes ago, heybruce said:

In other words, I cite 2012 figures from a credible source on regional GDP and government spending, you cite 2013 Wikipedia figures on regional GDP and speculate on government spending, and you state your figures and speculation are superior.

 

I'll let the readers decide who has the more credible data.

 

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

My figures are more recent.. than your figures.. seems good enough for me. 

 

You could not find anything more recent (neither could I) about spending.. but given the rice scam and big projects like railway and dams going on outside of BKK its fair to say it totally shifted. 

Yeah, your figures seem good to you.

 

Regarding railways and damns, show me where money is being spent.  Currently it is mostly (entirely?) talk, and the talk is taking place in Bangkok.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, aussieinthailand said:

"many restaurants don't pay not those small ones in Issan certianly not."  

So are you saying the small restaunts in BKK do pay tax???   come off it mate, you know better than that...

Ok so lets agree to disagree, no worries,  now lets apply your logic,   ie; those that pay more tax should get more back.

I suggest to you that there are more people in Issan, more people working in Issan, more revenue in Issan and more taxes raised in Issan, so by your opinion on where and who should get more taxes spent on them, then ok ISSAN should be getting a hell of a lot more than BKK   You do know that BKK is a city and not a province,,,,,,?  

And for those out there, YES I do know Issan is the poorest PROVINCE in the country,  My point is that Issan the "province" gernrates more money and taxes than BKK the city.   Have a look at post 82,  heybruce.  that should help...

I say policy's and funds should be spent in the area's of greatest need.

  

 

You do know that Issan is not a city or even a province don't you?

 

It is actually made up of quite a few provinces such as Nakhon Ratchasima, Buriram, Sisaket, Ubon Ratchathani, Yasothon and 11 other provinces. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provinces_of_Thailand

 

Have a look at the population of each province and add them up and yes, there will be more persons registered as living in those provinces. However that doesnt take into account how many people actually dont live there but do work in Bangkok and the surrounding provinces 10 or 11 months of the year.

 

 

[robblok]

12 minutes ago, heybruce said:

 

Yeah, your figures seem good to you.

 

Regarding railways and damns, show me where money is being spent.  Currently it is mostly (entirely?) talk, and the talk is taking place in Bangkok.

Of course the most recent figures seem good to me, why use old figures when newer figures are at hand.. (only if you don't like the new figures).

So it shows BKK bigger BKK area at 40% !!!! of the GDP.  then you got the whole of the northeast at 11%.. 

 

So its safe to say BKK is the economic heart of Thailand and if you take the easter provinces with it your (Chonburi ect) your at over 62% of the gdp made in That area. Seems to me the area's where PTP are popular don't do much for the economy. No wonder that the people who pay the bills don't like to see them in power. 

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Of course the most recent figures seem good to me, why use old figures when newer figures are at hand.. (only if you don't like the new figures).

So it shows BKK bigger BKK area at 40% !!!! of the GDP.  then you got the whole of the northeast at 11%.. 

 

So its safe to say BKK is the economic heart of Thailand and if you take the easter provinces with it your (Chonburi ect) your at over 62% of the gdp made in That area. Seems to me the area's where PTP are popular don't do much for the economy. No wonder that the people who pay the bills don't like to see them in power. 

 

I've already explained this one:

 

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

You trust Wikipedia referencing 2013 figures from the National Economic and Social Development Board of Thailand while calling World Bank figures from 2012 out of date.  I trust the World Bank figures, as do news organizations--they reference the World Bank, not the NESDB.

 

"Show me some real good data where it say 70% that is more recent and ill accept it."

 

I already did.  Here's the link, once again:  http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2012/05/10/thailand-public-finance-management-review-report  The information in in the second paragraph on the first page.

 

More complete data from a more credible source.  Everyone besides you and the junta in agreement that Thailand needs to spend more money improving education and infrastructure where it is needed most, outside of Bangkok.

[joeyg]

The corruption in America makes Thailand look like "kid's stuff."  Please...

[Eric Loh]

This piece of news went under the radar for obvious reason. The news reported in a major newspaper that the junta government has pledged a scheme to pay more to rice farmers for Hom Mali and glutinous rice. The pledging price is 11,700 B per ton and another 1,500 B per ton for storage. That adds up to 13,200 B per ton while the market price is at 9,500 B per ton. Not the same magnitude at about a total payout of 10B B but certainly pot and kettle sprung to mind.  

[billd766]

47 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

This piece of news went under the radar for obvious reason. The news reported in a major newspaper that the junta government has pledged a scheme to pay more to rice farmers for Hom Mali and glutinous rice. The pledging price is 11,700 B per ton and another 1,500 B per ton for storage. That adds up to 13,200 B per ton while the market price is at 9,500 B per ton. Not the same magnitude at about a total payout of 10B B but certainly pot and kettle sprung to mind.  

 

I suppose that would depend on if they have a budget for it and it is not off the books and also if there is any accountability and transparency involved. Are they looking at a revolving fund?

[aussieinthailand]

4 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

I suppose that would depend on if they have a budget for it and it is not off the books and also if there is any accountability and transparency involved. Are they looking at a revolving fund?

Damm I just spit my cold beer over my notebook screen..!!!

   "accountability and transperancy"  from the junta??? Oooooohhh  I get it you mean the kind of accountability and transperancy that is done by the junta them selves or if still to much noise from the pleb's then it's checked by the YES men lap dog's,  RIGHT???

 

Got a question for ya billd766,,   So can you show us poor buggers just when did the junta have or they ever had any Independant  "accountability and transperancy"???  

Not for them very expensive microphones that were returned after people complianed.

Not with the now infamous statues park down in Hua Hin.

Not for his own personal wealth or his family's wealth.

Not for the sevearl times his brother made the news for all the wrong reasons.

Not personal wealth/incorrect statment of wealth/nepotisim/awading mulity million Baht contracts to brothers son.

Not for sister in-law military airplane used at 500,000 per hour to open an 8,000 baht water dyke.

Not for the 21 million for hawaii holiday for 38 people that can't be named for security reasons, meawhile their photo's are all over several international news broad cast's.

Not for military court's for civilliens.

Not for the lead up to the referendum on the "peoples constitution".

And not for the flooding currently in Thailand.

And not for any past PM or junta leader held personaly accountable that set poor/badfailed policy that lost public money 

[billd766]

5 hours ago, aussieinthailand said:

Damm I just spit my cold beer over my notebook screen..!!!

   "accountability and transperancy"  from the junta??? Oooooohhh  I get it you mean the kind of accountability and transperancy that is done by the junta them selves or if still to much noise from the pleb's then it's checked by the YES men lap dog's,  RIGHT???

 

Got a question for ya billd766,,   So can you show us poor buggers just when did the junta have or they ever had any Independant  "accountability and transperancy"???  

Not for them very expensive microphones that were returned after people complianed.

Not with the now infamous statues park down in Hua Hin.

Not for his own personal wealth or his family's wealth.

Not for the sevearl times his brother made the news for all the wrong reasons.

Not personal wealth/incorrect statment of wealth/nepotisim/awading mulity million Baht contracts to brothers son.

Not for sister in-law military airplane used at 500,000 per hour to open an 8,000 baht water dyke.

Not for the 21 million for hawaii holiday for 38 people that can't be named for security reasons, meawhile their photo's are all over several international news broad cast's.

Not for military court's for civilliens.

Not for the lead up to the referendum on the "peoples constitution".

And not for the flooding currently in Thailand.

And not for any past PM or junta leader held personaly accountable that set poor/badfailed policy that lost public money 

 

Most of your questions could be applied to almost any government over the past 20 years. As for your last question I dont think that this government has lost or spent anything like the previous government.

 

Now at some point a PM or a junta leader has to be made personally responsible for the policies that they have applied to and cost the country. If not nothing will EVER change for Thailand.

 

If it happens to this government at the end and there is proof of it, then by all means charge them and if they are found guilty they should be punished.

 

The line has to be drawn somewhere by somebody unless you disagree with me.

 

It has happened. Just because a party is elected and given a mandate that does not mean that they are free to do as they want.

 

Every party and junta over the past 20, 30 perhaps even 50 years out of the last 82 years has done what they wanted in the name of "democracy".

 

Something that the west takes for granted but has been developed over hundreds of years and yet you expect Thailand to be at that level after only 82 years.

 

I am 72 and I kn ow democracy as the west would like it to be will not happen in my lifetime. My wife is 51 and there is a small chance of it happening in her lifetime, but my son is 12 and I feel confident it should happen in his life time.

 

I also know 100% that no matter what us farangs do, think or say here in Thailand it will make absolutely NO difference to the outcome of events here.

 

It is a 100% Thai peoples problem and nobody elses.

 

Just let them deal with it their way.

Edited October 28, 2016 by billd766

[halloween]

On 26/10/2016 at 1:05 AM, heybruce said:

Ok, let's use your logic:

 

" Currently, 72 % of Thailand's general public expenditures are being spent in Bangkok, which is home to 17% of the country’s population and produces 26% of the GDP. In contrast, the Northeast, which holds 34 % of the country's population, receives 6% of the expenditures. "

http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2012/05/10/thailand-public-finance-management-review-report

 

72% of public expenditures go to the area that produces 26% of GDP.  By your logic shouldn't government spending in Bangkok be cut to approximately one third of it's current level? 

 

A little math will show you that per capita spending in Bangkok is 13 times greater than in the rest of the country.  Do the big cities in your country get that kind of spending preference?

 

As far as spending money where it gets the best results, if you check out page 28 here http://documents.worldbank.org/curated/en/993671468118138134/pdf/674860ESW0P1180019006020120RB0EDITS.pdf   you'll see that per capita spending on education is four times higher in Bangkok than the rest of Thailand.  Don't you think the junta would do a better job of preparing Thailand for a first world economy if it spent more money in the most underserved areas? 

 

I'm one of those people who believes government spending should go to the most underserved areas where there is greatest room for increases in productivity.  I'm also one of those people who prefer democracy to military autocracy.  Clearly you aren't.

The non-discerning love to throw about statistics like these, without stopping to ask a few basic questions. Such as, where is the government with all its associated costs located? Oh that's right, the federal government only serves the people of Bangkok.

Go a little deeper. Where is the RTA, RTN and RTAF HQ? Where is the Head offices of the departments of education, water resources, RTP, SRT, and all the others? Even if the wages they disburse are allocated as expenditure in separate provinces, the administration is in Bangkok.

Why is more spent on education in Bangkok? Well, where are the major universities in your country, in the major cities or some hayseed village?

 

[greenchair]

So now there's a new rice scheme. 

It seems the present government is going to pay the farmers to store their surplus rice in warehouses, so that the new crop will have a higher price. Hmmmm, haven't I heard this somewhere before?  Seems the rice trough is too good to let go. 

[halloween]

2 minutes ago, greenchair said:

So now there's a new rice scheme. 

It seems the present government is going to pay the farmers to store their surplus rice in warehouses, so that the new crop will have a higher price. Hmmmm, haven't I heard this somewhere before?  Seems the rice trough is too good to let go. 

If you can't see the differences between that and the rice scam you are being deliberately obtuse.

[Rorri]

On 24/10/2016 at 4:09 PM, Cuchulainn said:

Are these ham-fisted legal eagles going to let this eel slip through the net?

I don't think that is what he is on able, you do understand the concept of right and wrong. There has been no court case. Your attitude is as bad as the junta's.  

[aussieinthailand]

7 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Most of your questions could be applied to almost any government over the past 20 years. As for your last question I dont think that this government has lost or spent anything like the previous government.

 

Now at some point a PM or a junta leader has to be made personally responsible for the policies that they have applied to and cost the country. If not nothing will EVER change for Thailand.

 

If it happens to this government at the end and there is proof of it, then by all means charge them and if they are found guilty they should be punished.

 

The line has to be drawn somewhere by somebody unless you disagree with me.

 

It has happened. Just because a party is elected and given a mandate that does not mean that they are free to do as they want.

 

Every party and junta over the past 20, 30 perhaps even 50 years out of the last 82 years has done what they wanted in the name of "democracy".

 

Something that the west takes for granted but has been developed over hundreds of years and yet you expect Thailand to be at that level after only 82 years.

 

I am 72 and I kn ow democracy as the west would like it to be will not happen in my lifetime. My wife is 51 and there is a small chance of it happening in her lifetime, but my son is 12 and I feel confident it should happen in his life time.

 

I also know 100% that no matter what us farangs do, think or say here in Thailand it will make absolutely NO difference to the outcome of events here.

 

It is a 100% Thai peoples problem and nobody elses.

 

Just let them deal with it their way.

Well most of your comments I do agree with,  and yes a line in the sand must be drawn, that line in the sand is dissove government and new elections, that is the law of the land, but the junta and the Dem's didn't like the laws nor like the odd's of winning a new election.

Unfortunatly you didn't answer my first question, and that is,

When has this junta had an independant, transperant investigation into any of the several allergations of corruption that have been raised and therefor been held finacialy accountable?  Answer never...

Then there's the bias being applied to selected government's and people for accountability. such as,

The failed toll way that is unfinished and just a row of concreate pillars.  or the police stations that were never finished and some not even started,  were is the independant,transperant investigation into those and applied finanial accountability?

[greenchair]

2 hours ago, halloween said:

If you can't see the differences between that and the rice scam you are being deliberately obtuse.

Just so other readers know what we are talking about. 

In the "new" government policy, the farmers that own storehouses will be paid large amounts of

"the people's " money to store rice . Then the new rice that will be harvested can be sold at a higher price. 

Halloween in his great wisdom, is going to explain the difference of the last scheme that stored rice in storehouses to increase the price and the new scheme that will store rice in storehouses to increase the price. 

Watch this space ???

Over to you halloween ???

[billd766]

4 hours ago, aussieinthailand said:

Well most of your comments I do agree with,  and yes a line in the sand must be drawn, that line in the sand is dissove government and new elections, that is the law of the land, but the junta and the Dem's didn't like the laws nor like the odd's of winning a new election.

Unfortunatly you didn't answer my first question, and that is,

When has this junta had an independant, transperant investigation into any of the several allergations of corruption that have been raised and therefor been held finacialy accountable?  Answer never...

Then there's the bias being applied to selected government's and people for accountability. such as,

The failed toll way that is unfinished and just a row of concreate pillars.  or the police stations that were never finished and some not even started,  were is the independant,transperant investigation into those and applied finanial accountability?

 

It never has to my knowledge, but then again neither has any other government going back donkeys years.

 

Politicians love the job and the perks that go with it, but sadly acceptance of responsibility, accountability, transparency, honesty, decency and a good moral standard are rarely if ever found in a politician and a sense of shame is never found there.

 

At some point in time a line HAS to be drawn by one government or another but up until now I think it has been a case of "If you don't look under my carpet, I wont look under yours".

 

This is great for politicians from all sides but abysmal for the Thai people who lose out every time.

 

When this lot took over I had high hopes for both them and Thailand but over the past couple of years although they have had some successes they have had more failures.

 

Partly I think because you cannot run a country like you can the military, partly because they came in with little or no experience, and partly because of the event that happened earlier this month.

 

OTOH I am not sure if the "professional politicians" did that much better either. They certainly did well for themselves, family and cronies but not much for the people.

 

Will there be an improvement now and in the immediate future?

 

I truly don't think so as both internally and externally for imports and exports the country is slowing down, but so is the world so with the best will in the world I don't think any party could do that much better.

 

IMHO the basic problem is that of a lack of a good education, simply because the children of today are the leaders of tomorrow.

 

Thailand IS changing for the better but at the speed of a glacier sometimes going downhill and sometimes going backwards up the hill.

 

For the current and past crop of politicians of all shapes, sizes, colours and parties I think they all need replacing with new fresh younger blood  but who would replace them?

 

The only one I can think of who could make a difference would be Korn Chatikavanij and I cannot think of anybody else.

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, halloween said:

The non-discerning love to throw about statistics like these, without stopping to ask a few basic questions. Such as, where is the government with all its associated costs located? Oh that's right, the federal government only serves the people of Bangkok.

Go a little deeper. Where is the RTA, RTN and RTAF HQ? Where is the Head offices of the departments of education, water resources, RTP, SRT, and all the others? Even if the wages they disburse are allocated as expenditure in separate provinces, the administration is in Bangkok.

Why is more spent on education in Bangkok? Well, where are the major universities in your country, in the major cities or some hayseed village?

 

I see, you assume the World Bank credits all government expenditure to the location where the spending is authorized.  The World Bank knows better than that, it has been doing this kind of work for a long time and has developed a great deal of expertise at it.  However if you think you have more credible statistics then please provide them.

 

The number of universities in Bangkok is dwarfed by the number of universities in the rest of the country.  Nothing justifies spending four times as much per capita on education in Bangkok, it is a clear case of treating Bangkok as the privileged city and the citizens of the rest of the country as second class.

[aussieinthailand]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

It never has to my knowledge, but then again neither has any other government going back donkeys years.

 

Politicians love the job and the perks that go with it, but sadly acceptance of responsibility, accountability, transparency, honesty, decency and a good moral standard are rarely if ever found in a politician and a sense of shame is never found there.

 

At some point in time a line HAS to be drawn by one government or another but up until now I think it has been a case of "If you don't look under my carpet, I wont look under yours".

 

This is great for politicians from all sides but abysmal for the Thai people who lose out every time.

 

When this lot took over I had high hopes for both them and Thailand but over the past couple of years although they have had some successes they have had more failures.

 

Partly I think because you cannot run a country like you can the military, partly because they came in with little or no experience, and partly because of the event that happened earlier this month.

 

OTOH I am not sure if the "professional politicians" did that much better either. They certainly did well for themselves, family and cronies but not much for the people.

 

Will there be an improvement now and in the immediate future?

 

I truly don't think so as both internally and externally for imports and exports the country is slowing down, but so is the world so with the best will in the world I don't think any party could do that much better.

 

IMHO the basic problem is that of a lack of a good education, simply because the children of today are the leaders of tomorrow.

 

Thailand IS changing for the better but at the speed of a glacier sometimes going downhill and sometimes going backwards up the hill.

 

For the current and past crop of politicians of all shapes, sizes, colours and parties I think they all need replacing with new fresh younger blood  but who would replace them?

 

The only one I can think of who could make a difference would be Korn Chatikavanij and I cannot think of anybody else.

There you go again, I agree with much of what you are sayng , and would sugesst most expat's want what's best for the Thai people as most expat's have Thai family and a better future for them is normal,

I am sorry to say that I think this lot running the show are nothing but hypocrites,  shouting to the nation and any in the world that they are committed to casting light and expossing corruption and fighting it for the benifit of the nation, and then they refuse to be held by the same standards they demande of others when there is allergations almost monthly of some new scandel regarding this government.  And when he is pressed futher by reporters doing their job,  what has this bloke do?  He has a public hissy fit and threatens reporters. 

If he is not qulifide to do the job, then he should not hold that office.  You don't get a brick layer to performe heart surgury...   

I've said it before, sauce for the goose is sauce for the ganda...

[aussieinthailand]

8 hours ago, aussieinthailand said:

There you go again, I agree with much of what you are sayng , and would sugesst most expat's want what's best for the Thai people as most expat's have Thai family and a better future for them is normal,

I am sorry to say that I think this lot running the show are nothing but hypocrites,  shouting to the nation and any in the world that they are committed to casting light and expossing corruption and fighting it for the benifit of the nation, and then they refuse to be held by the same standards they demande of others when there is allergations almost monthly of some new scandel regarding this government.  And when he is pressed futher by reporters doing their job,  what has this bloke do?  He has a public hissy fit and threatens reporters. 

If he is not qulifide to do the job, then he should not hold that office.  You don't get a brick layer to performe heart surgury...   

I've said it before, sauce for the goose is sauce for the ganda...

Thanks for the like mate,,,    

But my challange to you and still  is,      if you hold one government accountabel and protesset at their fault/failuers/bad policy and chastise/barate/ridicule them then why do you not apply the same critisizem to this lot???

 

I could be wrong and you have critisized this junta for their tresspasses, and forgive my tresspass if incorect.

As you said in your passt post and I agree with there has to be a line,,, and after that line then let the law of the land take hole...

ie, when Jeusu was asked if the people should pay taxes, what was his answer, look at the cion, who's face was on it,, give to ceaser what is his...

 

[tbthailand]

On October 25, 2016 at 0:31 PM, aussieinthailand said:

You keep going on about taxes paid in BKK so there for they should benefit most from government policy's.

Well mate guess what every time a person buy's food in BKK or in some little village in Issan they pay the same VAT tax.

Every time they fuel up the car/motor bike/tracktor they pay taxes the same as in BKK.

Every time people in BKK pay the elec bill they pay taxes just the same as people in Issan, so your point is???

IMO gov't policy's and funds need to be placed in area's with the greatest need and merit, not where the greatest amounts of taxes are sucked from people.

 

Robblok doesn't seem to be too socially aware, and a bit selfish on top of it. 

 

However, besides the point that helping everyone in society also helps Robblock, he seems to also be unaware that the government spending is not only out of balance relative to population, it is also out of balance compared to economic contribution. 

 

So his position is (1) selfish, (2) self-defeating, and (3) unintelligent/uninformed.  

[halloween]

20 hours ago, greenchair said:

Just so other readers know what we are talking about. 

In the "new" government policy, the farmers that own storehouses will be paid large amounts of

"the people's " money to store rice . Then the new rice that will be harvested can be sold at a higher price. 

Halloween in his great wisdom, is going to explain the difference of the last scheme that stored rice in storehouses to increase the price and the new scheme that will store rice in storehouses to increase the price. 

Watch this space ???

Over to you halloween ???

For a start, the government doesn't own the rice. Then, they don't do secret deals for their mates to sell it at fantastic profit, and even higher loss for the "the people".  Nobody is being paid more than their rice is worth as an electoral bribe. And the figures involved are no way comparable.

So the only real similarity is that rice is being stored, in this case to smooth market fluctuations. Deliberately obtuse.

Edited October 29, 2016 by halloween

[greenchair]

2 hours ago, halloween said:

For a start, the government doesn't own the rice. Then, they don't do secret deals for their mates to sell it at fantastic profit, and even higher loss for the "the people".  Nobody is being paid more than their rice is worth as an electoral bribe. And the figures involved are no way comparable.

So the only real similarity is that rice is being stored, in this case to smooth market fluctuations. Deliberately obtuse.

 

Yes, we know there will be no secret deals because this government has been so transparent in all of its projects of late. The government will offer loans, of which it will cover all of the interest of that loan, nobody knows the cost of that. The rice is valued at 5 baht per kilo, but to break even the farmers need 10 baht per kilo, the government is contemplating what to do about that. Correct, the figures are not comparable because currently the public don't know what this current scheme is going to cost. If someone says you can't go to hua hin by bus, so you then go by train, you are still going to hua hin.  

Pretty it up all you like.

It's the same candy  with a twist in the middle.??? 

[tbthailand]

4 hours ago, greenchair said:

 

Yes, we know there will be no secret deals because this government has been so transparent in all of its projects of late. The government will offer loans, of which it will cover all of the interest of that loan, nobody knows the cost of that. The rice is valued at 5 baht per kilo, but to break even the farmers need 10 baht per kilo, the government is contemplating what to do about that. Correct, the figures are not comparable because currently the public don't know what this current scheme is going to cost. If someone says you can't go to hua hin by bus, so you then go by train, you are still going to hua hin.  

Pretty it up all you like.

It's the same candy  with a twist in the middle.??? 

 

Well, it is a MUCH smaller piece of candy which does MUCH less good for the people... 

 

Which is in line with the priorities of the elite/military alliance... 

 

And while the plan is not an election bribe, hollowhead doesn't seem to understand that this regime still needs to keep a the masses from complete revolt or else they end up with a 1976 on their hands... (which will happen anyway at some point, ... the generals will always push the people too far. They can't help themselves) ... so it is still most definitely a bribe, just that this group of clowns doesn't need "votes".

[billd766]

13 hours ago, aussieinthailand said:

Thanks for the like mate,,,    

But my challange to you and still  is,      if you hold one government accountabel and protesset at their fault/failuers/bad policy and chastise/barate/ridicule them then why do you not apply the same critisizem to this lot???

 

I could be wrong and you have critisized this junta for their tresspasses, and forgive my tresspass if incorect.

As you said in your passt post and I agree with there has to be a line,,, and after that line then let the law of the land take hole...

ie, when Jeusu was asked if the people should pay taxes, what was his answer, look at the cion, who's face was on it,, give to ceaser what is his...

 

 

It doesn't matter to this or any government if I criticize them and yes you are pretty much correct that I haven't done so, so far. However after a couple of years of trying but rarely succeeding I have just about given up on them, much as I gave up on all the previous governments since I came here back in 1993 for the first time.

 

This government is going after the previous government for at least 2 reasons. 1 because they hate Thaksin and his followers for upsetting the natural way of things and 2, because they can.

 

But I have no doubt that the wheel of fortune will keep turning and perhaps the next government will do the same as this one has, or not.

 

Sadly whilst this affects the Army and the politicians in a small way, it affects the majority of Thais in a very large and not nice way .

 

If corruption by all sides were cut even to 50% Thailand would be in a far better position than it has been over the last 20 or 30 years.

 

If Thaksin had been fairly honest, open and transparent from the beginning I believe that he could have been at least a 2 and perhaps 3 time PM completing full terms each time.

 

However he, like the majority of Thai politicians and Army leaders enjoyed the power too much and upset too many other people.

 

The current lot want to destroy him and his family.

 

What he should have done IMHO was to accept that he had lost, quit and grown roses etc and then, his family and Thailand would have been spared so much grief and anguish.

[Johnniey]

On 24/10/2016 at 4:30 PM, jcsmith said:

Few things here. First and foremost its a dangerous precedent to set here. What happens every time a different party wins an election? Do they strip their adversaries of all their money from every failed policy? Why would anyone want a job where their personal finances can be taken if their ideas fail? 

It would be one thing if there was evidence that she profited at this for personal gain.It's another thing when they come after someone for a billion dollars because a policy failed. And where does this billion dollar number come from? They refused to sell the rice in storage after they took over. Moreover they snaked their way into power after Suthep threatened banks to not provide the government with a loan. Yes, the same Suthep who also went to a rally and told people to grab Yingluck and kidnap her if they saw her on the street. Yes in fact the same Suthep who also blocked voting polls and shut down government buildings. And yes the same Suthep who has never faced any sort of penalty for any of this. Instead they go after someone who didn't profit for a billion dollars? 

This is a witch hunt. An effort to steal money from their enemies on one hand, while trying to preach reconciliation to the public on the other. The junta has cost the country god knows how much money. They have damaged the economy and Thailand's world status. They are not only stealing money from their rivals, but they are stealing the citizens rights to a democratically elected government without any means other than we have the guns and you don't. And what happens when they get removed from power? The other side is going to want some payback and will come right back at them. How is that going to solve anything? Saying that you can take money from politicians who haven't been proven of corruption by exercising article 44 sets a precedent that will not be easy to undo. 

Care to let us know when there was a democratic government in Thailand. I certainly can't remember one. I thought everyone knows about the vote buying.

[Eric Loh]

2 hours ago, Johnniey said:

Care to let us know when there was a democratic government in Thailand. I certainly can't remember one. I thought everyone knows about the vote buying.

 

The EC has extensive power to manage and approving the election process. Are you saying that the EC has been wrong in the past for certifying the result of past elections. Are you implying that the EC has been bought too?

[Johnniey]

23 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

 

The EC has extensive power to manage and approving the election process. Are you saying that the EC has been wrong in the past for certifying the result of past elections. Are you implying that the EC has been bought too?

I'm saying that millions of people, especially in the North are paid to vote, are you seriously saying you don't believe this?

 

therefore, it is not a democracy, obv.

[Eric Loh]

17 minutes ago, Johnniey said:

I'm saying that millions of people, especially in the North are paid to vote, are you seriously saying you don't believe this?

 

therefore, it is not a democracy, obv.

 

Only in the north? You are way behind the curve. Paying voters is a historical norm in all form of elections in Thailand. The challenge is getting the voters to vote for you after accepting the money. It may not be a perfect democracy but much better than a coup. Don't you think so?

[Johnniey]

Just now, Eric Loh said:

 

Only in the north? You are way behind the curve. Paying voters is a historical norm in all form of elections in Thailand. The challenge is getting the voters to vote for you after accepting the money. It may not be a perfect democracy but much better than a coup. Don't you think so?

No, I don't.