Driving A Motorbike In Bangkok

[Gary A]

I'm not 100% sure but the statistics I read so far about the holiday period said that the highway total deaths went from 85% last year to 87% of the total this year for motorcycles. I love to ride also but I don't like the odds.

[MrSnrang]

If you are going to ride, wear a good helmet and long-sleeved tough jacket. I also suggest wearing some good gloves just in case.

All it takes is some granny turning without a signal and you not to be able to brake in time and you're sliding on your back after your t-shirt is converted to a couple of threads.

[kiwi fishing bangkok]

motorcycling in Bangkok is FUN

ok I ride my wifes Honda NSR150RR, this is a 2-stroke race style bike, and it is getting long in the tooth,BUT it is from a time where there wasnt the restrictions on power and noise outputs. So it has power and it moves real fine for a little bike. its good for 150kmph without trying hard and breaks good and hard

that means that it will out power the new bikes of the same cc rating. the people here know how to ride and they know how to drive, I hav been on bikes all over the world and bangkok is the safest place that I have ridden, I have been riding for over 20 years.

I ride most days and do the major roads, like from On Nut to Pantip, Nana, Bang Kapi. all over the place. we even take the kids on the bike with us.

the drivers here are good, better than most countrys, when was the last time you saw some "road rage"?

was it a farang behind the wheel?

now the road surface here is different it is not so abrasive as western roads. that means if you do fall off it is only mild pizza toppings for wounds, unlike western roads where you tend to grind bits away, and yes I have ground some bits away, at speed in western countrys!

as for the accidents people are killed in every country on motor bikes, but here they are aware of bikes and drive knowing that there WILL be a bike around them. the chances are alot better here for survival than most western countries. it is also my understanding that if a car hits a motorcycle then they have BIG problems!

live on the edge try ridding in Bangkok you might just be supprised and enjoy this way of getting around.

now if there is a lound noise and a flash of a small Farang going past at speed then listen you might just hear the laughing coming from the bike as I enjoy another flying trip around bangkok whilst laughing at the people in cars who waste a big part of there day sitting looking at the other cars.

Bangkok has been the best City riding of my life!

[MrSnrang]

No road rage?

Plus the chances of getting killed on a bike here are smaller because there is a much larger amount of riders. Where else have you driven? Baghdad?

Beware of cars with first-class insurance. They do NOT care less if they hit a bike because it will be covered by insurance. It doesn't matter whose fault the accident is when you are converted to red pavement paint.

Dont push your luck mate.

[kiwi fishing bangkok]

SEX IS DANGEROUS DONT DO IT!!!

I like to think that I do not push my luck, there must be some skill involved to still be alive after riding for 20 years INTERNATIONALY, and that was not on little 150cc bikes.

try New Zealand, Auckland for riding if you think bangkok is bad!! or england for that matter hey even look at Ausey, all these compared to Bangkok and Bangkok is a breeze here!

the parking for a bike is great in bangkok, try parking a car!

to say that riding a bike is dangerous in bangkok and dont do it, is like saying that things like scuba diving, rockclimbing, absailing, bungy jumping, sailing, nana, pantip, soi cowboy, patpong, tuk tuks, thailand food, thailand water, drinking alcohol, having sex are all to dangerous and dont do them!!

get real, it is more dangerous to walk across some of the roads here in Bangkok than it is to ride on them.

if you want to go out there on a bike and be crazey then yes you will have problems but if you go out there and go with the flow of traffic then it is a great way to travel, you can cut your traveling time down to 1/4 of the time in a car.

ITS CALLED COMMON SENCE!

Would I take my children (3 and 5 years old)on bikes in other countries? NO WAY!!!!!! there is no way my children would go on a bike back home in NZ or UK that is dangerous!!!! here it is good, the drivers are more aware of motorbikes.

insurance is a worry, look at your payments for 1st class insurance after you have hit two motorbikes!!!

now the real thing to look out for is not the flash cars, it is the busses, the green ones are the main ones to worry about, not the cars. a person who rides in bangkok knows this!!

take the advice from people who ride here in bangkok, not from people that have seen bikes in bangkok.

I watched a program on brain surgery, does that mean that I know about it? no

to be honest you do have "moments" but they are far less here in Bangkok than other countries, also the speed is lower here in the city, so with a lower speed (and smaller bikes) the result is less accidents. yes you can get hit by a car or buss, you can do that crossing the street!

lets look at the motorbike taxis, now if it was soooo dangerous then we wouldnt have a trade like this, these guys are professionals, they take customers every day saftley to where they want. if the riding here is as bad as some say we should have these people dropping like flys! but no the locals use them as they are a good safe way to travel. I give these guys credit rideing a bike all day and doing it safley!

motorbikes in bangkok are GOOD. I would love to hear some points of view from people who ride here. people who have been riding in different countries to hear how Bangkok compares to the world.

Ride safe and have fun

[kiwi fishing bangkok]

I forgot to mention the "powerful bike(haha)"

getting a older bike is good as the power ratings did not apply to them.

this good for riding here, you can merge with the traffic better, coming up to the same speed as them in a quicker time can mean that you dont have someone up your rear!

it also means that when you have done your 2 mph weave through the stopped cars ( I can run faster!) you are now at the front, when you take off from the lights with the extra power you can find yourself with clear roads, no cars until you get to the next set of lights.

this is not silly speeds, its about the use of power, the flow of traffic and skillfull riding. traveling at 60kph with clear roads is easy in bangkok.

with this style, about 90% of the cars I come into "contact" with (haha) are stopped at the lights, havent you noticed the packs of motorbikes at the lights, the bikes ride in groups. following in aline of bikes is good fun, its like a game of chess break the line and start a new one, go left move up two squares, move right two and go forward 20 squares. agh dead end wait for them to make thier move.

going up a main road you can have a conversation with the same riders at 10 sets of traffic lights, that is as you are passing about 2000 stopped cars.

peak traffic times............ dangerous? NO the safest times to ride!!

over a 16 km trip I can do up to 15 of those at speeds of 10kph or less whilst passing 15km of stopped cars, we get grid locked in bangkok, well....... the cars do! look at the lines of bikes going past you when you next sit in a car in the peak rush hour traffic. On a bike you just follow the ones in front, weaving at walking pace at times, this is good for learning the low speed skills!

the hardest thing about riding in Bangkok is the Wing mirrors, moving at 2mph trying not to hit the mirrors of the stopped cars.

[alohatiger]

Actually Mr. Kiwi Fishing Bangkok seems to speak from experience. It is true that it's dangerous driving a motorcycle in Bangkok, but I feel with enough knowledge, some experience, and a good bike one can get through Bangkok and see the city. And emulating the reponsible Thai drivers is probably a good idea too. Most times I see those guys covered top to bottom, jacket, long pants, and even a dust wrap around their faces. Usually have full helmets too.

I just went on a day trip here in Bangkok and now I'm CONVINCED I'm only seeing about 5-10% of the city staying on the BTS and MRT. I KNOW there's much more to life here in Bangkok, AND cheaper TOO! Less competition from other rich Westerners. It's all good if you speak a bit of Thai and ride a motorbike!

[alohatiger]

Oh, yeah, Kiwi Fishing Bangkok, love the particular details about the best AND worst part of riding a motorcycle in Bangkok, that's what I'm looking out for!

Yes, hitting the wing mirrors is a problem. I've hit one and been hit by one (on my mirror). I guess I'm riding out at even.

As far as the mirror issues, yes, I do use my mirrors more and more, quick glances left or right, then looking ahead for dangers, then back again. But when I *DO* execute the lane change, I always try to look over my shoulder unless it's an emergency situation, where I pretty much have no choice. At that point, I have to rely on the previous mirror-checks to know where my "back-door" exit is.

You guys know about always keeping an eye out for an emergency "back-door" in case the lane in front of you is cutoff or whatever. That's why I sometimes don't drive in tight, narrow spaces at high speed because there's no "back-door" to escape too should you be cutoff. And you're going too fast to brake in time, so it's a risk. Like overtaking on a curve. Taking your chances with your life on that one!

It's a big game, where you have to time it JUST right! Be careful and you can always slow down.

As an aside, can you please describe your **experiences** and insights on OVERTAKING in general, especially on a motorcycle.

I *DID* have fun in a car, but I have to suggest a quick, power car for the roads on Thailand, or be stuck behind a train of slow cars and large trucks on those country roads. I had rented a Chevrolet Optra **SS**, which is the best option for it. Quick, full of high-end power, and not too heavy. GOOD ride. Let me know if you need to rent it in Krabi. Took it to Lanta on four ferries and two hot falls, and it performed AWESOMELY!

Overtaking on a motorcycle is quite dangerous. Sometimes I pass on the left, but I think that's technically, illegal, isn't it? I do see people do it everyday, but at low speeds. It's also a bit dangerous if you're going fast, since you get a lot of low-speed traffic coming from the left, and they are on the side of the law, I believe.

Thanks again!

[MrSnrang]

At a bare minimum use an imported helmet (Arai, Shoei, bell). I have seen the Thai-made ones crack after just being dropped.

[besth]

SEX IS DANGEROUS DONT DO IT!!!

I like to think that I do not push my luck, there must be some skill involved to still be alive after riding for 20 years INTERNATIONALY, and that was not on little 150cc bikes.

try New Zealand, Auckland for riding if you think bangkok is bad!! or england for that matter hey even look at Ausey, all these compared to Bangkok and Bangkok is a breeze here!

the parking for a bike is great in bangkok, try parking a car!

to say that riding a bike is dangerous in bangkok and dont do it, is like saying that things like scuba diving, rockclimbing, absailing, bungy jumping, sailing, nana, pantip, soi cowboy, patpong, tuk tuks, thailand food, thailand water, drinking alcohol, having sex are all to dangerous and dont do them!!

get real, it is more dangerous to walk across some of the roads here in Bangkok than it is to ride on them.

if you want to go out there on a bike and be crazey then yes you will have problems but if you go out there and go with the flow of traffic then it is a great way to travel, you can cut your traveling time down to 1/4 of the time in a car.

ITS CALLED COMMON SENCE!

Would I take my children (3 and 5 years old)on bikes in other countries? NO WAY!!!!!! there is no way my children would go on a bike back home in NZ or UK that is dangerous!!!! here it is good, the drivers are more aware of motorbikes.

insurance is a worry, look at your payments for 1st class insurance after you have hit two motorbikes!!!

now the real thing to look out for is not the flash cars, it is the busses, the green ones are the main ones to worry about, not the cars. a person who rides in bangkok knows this!!

take the advice from people who ride here in bangkok, not from people that have seen bikes in bangkok.

I watched a program on brain surgery, does that mean that I know about it? no

to be honest you do have "moments" but they are far less here in Bangkok than other countries, also the speed is lower here in the city, so with a lower speed (and smaller bikes) the result is less accidents. yes you can get hit by a car or buss, you can do that crossing the street!

lets look at the motorbike taxis, now if it was soooo dangerous then we wouldnt have a trade like this, these guys are professionals, they take customers every day saftley to where they want. if the riding here is as bad as some say we should have these people dropping like flys! but no the locals use them as they are a good safe way to travel. I give these guys credit rideing a bike all day and doing it safley!

motorbikes in bangkok are GOOD. I would love to hear some points of view from people who ride here. people who have been riding in different countries to hear how Bangkok compares to the world.

Ride safe and have fun

I wouldn't say that driving a motorcycle in Bangkok is safe (although I think it is safer than most of the other danger-related activities you mention), but it definitely is the best way to move around in the Big Mango. Saves time and money and it is fun.

As you mention in one of your posts, the fact that all drivers are aware that we (motorcycles) are always there even if we shouldn't be, makes it a bit safer than in some other cities.

Before I bought my motorcycle in Thailand, I had Thai friends going at me for a few months, with all the dangers motorcycle driving farangs could no-way overcome.

I have never driven in NZ or Australia, but I have done it in quite a few European and Asian countries. I would say that Bangkok, because of the traffic density, requires 100% of your concentration all the time, but I don't feel it is particularly dangerous. As someone said, you must almost get into a "zen" state of mind and drive as if everyone else is there to kill you (and green bus drivers have big bonusses if they get you). That concentration also helps you to get from A to B faster and you have more fun.

[besth]

You guys know about always keeping an eye out for an emergency "back-door" in case the lane in front of you is cutoff or whatever. That's why I sometimes don't drive in tight, narrow spaces at high speed because there's no "back-door" to escape too should you be cutoff. And you're going too fast to brake in time, so it's a risk. Like overtaking on a curve. Taking your chances with your life on that one!

As an aside, can you please describe your **experiences** and insights on OVERTAKING in general, especially on a motorcycle.

Overtaking on a motorcycle is quite dangerous. Sometimes I pass on the left, but I think that's technically, illegal, isn't it? I do see people do it everyday, but at low speeds. It's also a bit dangerous if you're going fast, since you get a lot of low-speed traffic coming from the left, and they are on the side of the law, I believe.

Thanks again!

You are totally right on distances and "back-door" emergency exits. Sometimes you have reasonable time to squeez in and it is tempting to try to do that, but better to avoid the situations if possible.

I don't think that overtaking in a motorcycle is specially dangerous. Actually, from experience, I believe that it is a lot easier than with a car (if you get it wrong, the consequences are much worse, but the act itself is easier).

You need a lot less space in both width and length than with a car. Unless you are really struggling for power/speed when you overtake (and if that is the case, you shouldn't do it), it is faster to overtake with a motorcycle. You have better use of the road space and if you are in dense traffic with a long line of vehicles, it is easier to decide how many you can safely overtake in one go.

Overtaking on the left side is illegal. Not too dangerous at slow speed, but very dangerous if you are going fast, because then you lose the "awareness factor" of the other drivers on the road (they do not expect a fast motorcycle on their left). Left parts of roads in Thailand are also usually filled with small holes, dirt, etc. and you have little time and hard conditions to react to someone cutting you out with a left turn.

[Etrigan]

I've been riding bikes in LOS for nearly 10 years, and I have only recently decided to sell my beloved bike. One of the reasons for this, is that, beyond any doubt in my mind, Thai driving culture has gotten worse over that time. Much worse. In tandem with this, is the increase in police checkpoints which actively discriminate bikers, especially big bikes. I've had enough. Having an extra set of eyes in the back of your head is no longer enough. I'm sick to death of riding legally with due care and consideration, just to get pulled over by the same checkpoints, same police, on the same roads for the same reasons - how can we fleece this biker?

So there's my two satangs worth, it's not just the immediate dangers of bike riding that you must consider. Think carefully. Enjoy your decision.

[VocalNeal]

I try to achieve an almost "enlightened" state of mind while driving the 50cm of space between the cars. It is strange, but the more I pay attention to other roadusers, the faster I reach my office...

"The Zen of driving in bkk" lol :-)

T.

Tracker.

A little know fact is that some psychiatrists endorse motorbike riding as a therapy for depression. Apparently the heightened state of concentration/attention required leaves no room for the thoughts that contribute to the depression.

AlohaTiger:

Go for it. If you are new to m/biking get a 125 scooter or “auto” bike like the new Yamaha Vino? That will give you one less thing to do so you can concentrate on riding. When in doubt follow all the Thai bikes.

What worries me though is that you are doing this to learn BKK, which means to me you, will be concentrating more on where you are going and less on the traffic. L

If you are athletic and wish to explore BKK start running with the Hash House Harriers. You will visit parts of BKK that most residents or tourists never see.

[VocalNeal]

I try to achieve an almost "enlightened" state of mind while driving the 50cm of space between the cars. It is strange, but the more I pay attention to other roadusers, the faster I reach my office...

"The Zen of driving in bkk" lol :-)

T.

Tracker. A little know fact is that some psychiatrists endorse motorbike riding as a therapy for depression. Apparently the heightened state of concentration/attention required leaves no room for the thoughts that contribute to the depression.

AlohaTiger:

Go for it. If you are new to m/biking get a 125 scooter or “auto” bike like the new Yamaha Vino? That will give you one less thing to do so you can concentrate on riding. When in doubt follow all the Thai bikes.

What worries me though is that you are doing this to learn BKK, which means to me you, will be concentrating more on where you are going and less on the traffic. L

If you are athletic and wish to explore BKK start running with the Hash House Harriers. You will visit parts of BKK that most residents or tourists never see.

[mark lamai]

sitiing here looking at my Honda Dream, Honda NSR and Honda Bros.

none have hit the dirt.... yet

rode in bangkok a lot.

agree above , bangkok is safer than the country.

country roads have sharp deep shoulders, oncoming (i.e. straight at you) traffic.

my rules for riding.

1. maintain your line. never vary your driving line by even 6 inches without looking twice,

as long as they know where you are they usually miss you.

you will never get used to cars and bikes skimming past you with 4 inches spare,

but hel_l they are good at it.

2. any vehicle in front of any other vehicle may do anything it wants.

3. stay at the back of the red lights queue. and tootle off slowly,

let the maniacs get well ahead of you.

4. carry an easily accessible 100 baht for the trafiic cops when they pull you over.

5. do all direction changes slowly, use 100 metres to change lanes.

6. repeat like a manta, "there is always someone there"

fair dinkum if you havent looked behind for 4 seconds,

you have to assume that 5 kamakazis are on ur a s s .

only ever been knocked over twice.

both scenarios were so unbelievably unbelievable,

any factoring of possibilities would not have included them.

the impossible can happen.

BUT

nothing beats getting around the big mango on a bike.

[besth]

sitiing here looking at my Honda Dream, Honda NSR and Honda Bros.

none have hit the dirt.... yet

rode in bangkok a lot.

agree above , bangkok is safer than the country.

country roads have sharp deep shoulders, oncoming (i.e. straight at you) traffic.

my rules for riding.

1. maintain your line. never vary your driving line by even 6 inches without looking twice,

as long as they know where you are they usually miss you.

you will never get used to cars and bikes skimming past you with 4 inches spare,

but hel_l they are good at it.

2. any vehicle in front of any other vehicle may do anything it wants.

3. stay at the back of the red lights queue. and tootle off slowly,

let the maniacs get well ahead of you.

4. carry an easily accessible 100 baht for the trafiic cops when they pull you over.

5. do all direction changes slowly, use 100 metres to change lanes.

6. repeat like a manta, "there is always someone there"

fair dinkum if you havent looked behind for 4 seconds,

you have to assume that 5 kamakazis are on ur a s s .

only ever been knocked over twice.

both scenarios were so unbelievably unbelievable,

any factoring of possibilities would not have included them.

the impossible can happen.

BUT

nothing beats getting around the big mango on a bike.

Mainly good points, but I'd definitely disagree with N. 3 and I don't think N. 6 is right.

For N. 3: If you get at the front and away faster than all the (other?) maniacs, you will be a lot safer. As a general rule it is also true that if, in city traffic, you are driving faster that the vehicles around, you are in not so much danger of being hit from behind.

For N. 6: I think the mantra should be: "They are all there to kill you". I think "zen driving" was mentioned earlier in this thread. Do not underestimate any messages in that sense.

[alohatiger]

I talked to a friend of mine who rides in Bangkok, and he says people drive here in packs. He suggested (please chime in with comments) that one should ride WITH the pack, at least as fast as the pack, since one does not want to make oneself a road hazard by going too slow. So one has to "go with flow" on this one.

I DO like the idea of having a slightly more powerful bike and racing ahead of the pack. My big fear, however, is a car turning into you (heading the opposite direction, then making a right in front of you) because the road is clear after the stop light, he thinks he can make it before the incoming pack of vehicles reaches the intersection, but you are speeding ahead of the pack, right into his turn. He sees he is bigger than you are, and still executes the turn. Then, I have to brake hard, perhaps fish-tail, and the rest of the pack passes me. This does not occur all the time, but it does worry me with the "pulling away from the pack" method. Perhaps their is a way to prevent a car from turning into you? Off the top of my head, wearing a blazing orange helmet and a yellow jacket and getting those hot, bright lights with a "twinkle" box wired in might help. That's those devices that make your headlights twinkle, attracting folks attention. If the lights are bright as well (even in daytime) oncoming traffic should know you might go real fast. I also like a nice sounding pipe. Loud is good, as long as it's a PLEASANT loud.

Then again, riding with the pack is dangerous as well, since I don't know all the "rules of the road" just yet. Being a predictable rider DOES help, I guess, as an earlier poster mentioned. Riding in a straight line with slow movements (lane changes, etc.) allows folks to pass right on by you. But having all those riders and even cars pass by you a mere 6 inches away is scary.

So I guess each method of riding has their own advantages and disadvantages.

[Gary A]

There's always the kid out in front of the pack. I was in a taxi one day and directly ahead of us was a tuk tuk that had just rear ended a taxi. The taxi driver was upset and immediately opened his door. The leader of the pack ate that taxi door. I don't know how bad the kid was hurt but he WAS hurt. Fortunately I wasn't far from where I was going so I paid my taxi and walked away. I didn't stick around to see what happened. Just a bump on the handlebars, a bad manhole cover, a door opening or a pedestrian can totally ruin you day. I don't like the odds at all. I LIKE the Sky Train.

[bernie66]

I have had almost every bike made including a $30,000 harley.But ive never had as much fun as i do on my $400 2-stoke 125 in bkk. Its just fun as hel_l to explore bkk on a scooter. Its not a optimal place to learn ,but dude your riding a MOPED! Just because you can ride a weely down the autobon doesnt mean you can handle traffic in BKK! So dont worry about skill as much as riding posture and having your wit about you %200. Be aware of all cars around you front and back,at all time. i count vehicles by their color as i go so if i have to make an unexpected turn. if you look over your shoulder and see a black car that was not thier before then its a pretty good asumption that he is driving fast or weaving in and out of traffic. then you know he is the one to watch out for. alot writtin about mirrors here. There is a one two three here you should really think about. you have to keep sight of 360 deg around you at all time. use your mirrors for this.glancing at them to watch traffic thats behind is as important as watching traffic in front. turning your head to watch traffic behind you is stupid because you are no longer looking forward. If a large amount of traffic is comming up on you, speed up!. dont wait until your going to turn to realise what is comming up behind you or riding your ass. 1,2,3= signal, look in the mirror, and then an over the shoulder look before you execute. but always monitor whats behind you.dont get tunnel vision. i think your mistaken about size and power. Its just like she said,"bigger is better." having a more powerful bike will help you ESCAPE dangerous traffic situations not cause you to hit them. you want to get out of the way quickly and a powerful throdle will do this.aswell, powerful tourqed bikes can slow down and and even stop in the rain without having to hit your breaks so that you dont slide and wipe out. get the biggest cc bike or traffic will constantly overtake you and put you in dangerous riding postions = ie. THIER BLINDSPOTS! "DONT RIDE IN ANY VEHICLES BLIND SPOT!!!! Use your signals, riding posture, and lane usage to give the vehicles around an idea of your intent. I mean that if it looks to someone behind you that your going to turn then they are not going to ride your ass. Pass pass pass and pass and pass again. if your in front of them they see you! Dont habitually ride agints the curb. then you have know where to go to avoid hitting something.Always expect that a car is going to hit you or slam on the breaks. I mean always look for a "Path of escape". If you dont see an escape path then your in a dangerous situaion and you need to drive faster that the traffic around you and get the hel_l out of it. ALWAYS BE SCARED! This keeps your adrinalin up,you wits about you,and helps give you a proactive reaction time. Find someone to ride with on the weekends so you can discuss situations you come across and learn from others mistakes not yours. Bike modifications in bkk is really fun.I spend alot of my free time going around to custom shops and looking things i can do to make my bike ride better.i found a guy at LHK motors near ratchidapesek rd that speaks english that will sit thier and talk shop all day long.Great guy and he knows what parts of town specialize in certian parts. tires,rims,used parts,ect...If you want your bike to look neat.look at the aftermarket parts availible for a model before you buy.thier are lots of magazines for this in every bookstore.and they will have advertizements for shops with location maps. Im going to have my scooter tricked out in may when i come home. you can ride down thier with me if you like and i can show you where to go.

[kiwi fishing bangkok]

hey I have to agree with the two stroke, I love it!!! my wife has a NSR 150RR and it is a blast! light so it has great power to weight ratio, goes like a cut cat!! I have been riding for 25 years .

BK is fun, really good fun!! once you get the style you find it is very safe, just believe in Budda!

JOKING!! get something with power, that is a must when a Farang is looking at getting a bike, as you can be carrying and extra 40kg, as these Thai people are light, dont dis-advantage yourself before you begin.

by power I dont mean a 1000cc, a 150cc two stroke is all you need here and that can scare the crap out of people, just ask alohatiger, I think he had a few moments on the back, understandable as he does not know the style of drivers as yet. I do put in up to about 100km a day around the place for some time now so understand from what direction they are going to try and KILL ME from.

now he is not a small lad, but a 150cc two stroke does very well on the power with two up, so you can merge with traffic, think when getting a bike who will get on the back? dont say no-one as there is always someone that ends up on the back!

now if you are running 120kg and the wife is running 100kg then it is best not to be looking at a 50cc bike, for many reasons!!! one being the distance and time needed to cross main roads, I would hate to be the car hitting 220kg of them on a 50!!

if you are a taller person look at the old yamahas they are built for the larger person, now the NSR is good for smaller people, and big people just look funny with there knees up around there ears on one of these!!

just a few thoughts when looking at a bike

[bernie66]

i saw a poster for a 150cc raider by suzuki. and i think honda makes a 150 sonic.. this is the one i will get if mine ever craps out. i might buy it anyway it looked pretty cool in black. its a little bit bigger than the other scooters and still small enough to get in between cars in traffic. i would get it and put the widest tires and nastiest breaks on it that will fit.thats what im doing to my honda dash.