Extension Of Non Imm. O

[jaypee]

Can anyone confirm that this is the the right way to understand the new law, - being an "alien" married to a Thai woman:

Order of the Royal Thai Police Headquarters No. 606/2549. Re: Rules and Conditions in the Consideration of Alien Applications for Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand

Chapter 7.17 (6)

In the case of an alien married to a Thai woman, any party or both must have a total income of not less than Baht 40,000 per month, except for aliens who entered the Kingdom before this Order came into force and granted a permit to stay in the Kingdom. If the alien does not have the minimum income above, he shall have an account deposit in Thailand in the name of either party or both of not less than Baht 400,000. Proof of account deposit for the previous 3 months is required.

-----

The (very unpolite) Immigration officer at the Mukdahan Imm.Offce REFUSED to receive my application for extension of NonImm. O when I did not show evidence of a monthly income of 40K. In my documentation it was legally proof of bank deposits much more than 400K that has been transferred from abroad and in over 3 months.

Anyone with similar experiences?

[lopburi3]

Are you currently on a one year extension of stay under the 400k bank deposit? If this is a new application only the 40k per month family income is acceptable.

[Nakhon1]

Can anyone confirm that this is the the right way to understand the new law, - being an "alien" married to a Thai woman:

Order of the Royal Thai Police Headquarters No. 606/2549. Re: Rules and Conditions in the Consideration of Alien Applications for Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand

Chapter 7.17 (6)

In the case of an alien married to a Thai woman, any party or both must have a total income of not less than Baht 40,000 per month, except for aliens who entered the Kingdom before this Order came into force and granted a permit to stay in the Kingdom. If the alien does not have the minimum income above, he shall have an account deposit in Thailand in the name of either party or both of not less than Baht 400,000. Proof of account deposit for the previous 3 months is required.

-----

The (very unpolite) Immigration officer at the Mukdahan Imm.Offce REFUSED to receive my application for extension of NonImm. O when I did not show evidence of a monthly income of 40K. In my documentation it was legally proof of bank deposits much more than 400K that has been transferred from abroad and in over 3 months.

Anyone with similar experiences?

No similar experience. But a couple of questions for clarification.

Are you currently on an extension of stay (which is the "permit to stay" referred to in the Police Order) or are you attempting to extend a 90 day entry on an O visa to one year?.

If the latter then I am afraid you must go the 40k/month route. If the former you have been either wrongly refused (assuming the 400k has been in your a/c for 3 months) or unreasonably refused. It is not clear (to me) if the 400k has been in your a/c for 3 months or has been paid in over 3 months which would not qualify - however, through, this forum it appears that immigration are not enforcing the full 3 months at this time it being unreasonable to assume those already on extensions will have learnt of the new requirements.

Additionally if the former 400k must have been in your a/c for the 3 months.

[jaypee]

I have been on extensions for several years, - however, for reasons due to some business relations - my extension expired when I was unable to renew it. I then had to start with a new Non O the 28th of August this year.

I do not know what is the law here, - but the new regulations as I refer to in my first post ( Order of the Royal Thai Police Headquarters No. 606/2549 ), clearly states: -"If the alien does not have the minimum income above, he shall have an account deposit in Thailand in the name of either party or both of not less than Baht 400,000. Proof of account deposit for the previous 3 months is required"- This order is from this year and I have copied it from Royal Thai Immigration Police's website.

Since I am working as a self employed international consultant, I do not have a regulaer monthly income - but I make much more than 480K annually. Does this mean that I can not transfer larger amounts 3-4 times a year - but rather divide it into 12 equal transfers of no less than 40K ???

[jaypee]

The reference to the Acts you can find HERE

[lopburi3]

except for aliens who entered the Kingdom before this Order came into force and granted a permit to stay in the Kingdom.

Believe this only allows those current on an extension of stay if done as previously the case with other grandfathered regulations so you would not now have the 400k option.

But the income should be your average monthly gross and certified by your Embassy I suspect so you should be able to qualify. If you can not provide documentation perhaps your wife can find income to make up any shortfall and provide 3 months of tax receipts?

[Nakhon1]

Since I am working as a self employed international consultant, I do not have a regulaer monthly income - but I make much more than 480K annually. Does this mean that I can not transfer larger amounts 3-4 times a year - but rather divide it into 12 equal transfers of no less than 40K ???

As Lopburi says you will need to have your income certified by your embassy. You may wish to contact your embassy to see what they accept a evidence of income (unless you are US when they apparently take your word for it).

You do not need to make monthly payments into your account, only occasional international transfers and regular withdrawals to demonstrate you are not living off income from illegal employment in Thailand.

[jaypee]

I have not asked my embassy to have my income certified, but I doubt that they are able to do this before at least a year after the income is made. In Scandinavia, where I come from - we have a tax declaration annually and the income is finally certified the followingyear. Also, since I am working international, I get quite a bit of my annual income outside Scandinavia.

With people that are on state pensions and alike, there should be no problems to have this certified, - but in my case as self employed, I do not think my embassy could or would certify any income before a year after. That would of course create a new problem .....

[lopburi3]

Whatever you show as tax should be what your Embassy can certify I would suspect. But you need to ask them.

The alternative is to put the wife to work earning the required amount by show of tax payments. As tax rates are not that high here it is probably not that expensive.

[phormio]

Can anyone confirm that this is the the right way to understand the new law, - being an "alien"

...

The (very unpolite) Immigration officer at the Mukdahan Imm.Offce REFUSED to receive my application for extension of NonImm. O when I did not show evidence of a monthly income of 40K. In my documentation it was legally proof of bank deposits much more than 400K that has been transferred from abroad and in over 3 months.

Anyone with similar experiences?

No similar experience. But a couple of questions for clarification.

Are you currently on an extension of stay (which is the "permit to stay" referred to in the Police Order) or are you attempting to extend a 90 day entry on an O visa to one year?.

If the latter then I am afraid you must go the 40k/month route. If the former you have been either wrongly refused (assuming the 400k has been in your a/c for 3 months) or unreasonably refused. It is not clear (to me) if the 400k has been in your a/c for 3 months or has been paid in over 3 months which would not qualify - however, through, this forum it appears that immigration are not enforcing the full 3 months at this time it being unreasonable to assume those already on extensions will have learnt of the new requirements.

Additionally if the former 400k must have been in your a/c for the 3 months.

My question is now that I've got 400K in the bank and have used it this year, having been grandfathered in, can I just leave it sitting there for a year until next year, with no activity on the account, and use it again? In other words, what are they looking for here ? Is it money coming in from the outside ? Is it activity on an account which indicates the source of funds so that they can tell wether I, without work permit, is working illegally?

Anybody really understand what's behind this?

[Sunbelt Asia]

I have been on extensions for several years, - however, for reasons due to some business relations - my extension expired when I was unable to renew it. I then had to start with a new Non O the 28th of August this year.

The problem is you had a fresh 90 day "O" visa issued on the 28th of August. This is not counted as an extension for this clause

except for aliens who entered the Kingdom before this Order came into force and granted a permit to stay in the Kingdom

You must of had the extension of stay granted, not just having the "O" visa.

I do not know what is the law here, - but the new regulations as I refer to in my first post ( Order of the Royal Thai Police Headquarters No. 606/2549 ), clearly states: -"If the alien does not have the minimum income above, he shall have an account deposit in Thailand in the name of either party or both of not less than Baht 400,000. Proof of account deposit for the previous 3 months is required"- This order is from this year and I have copied it from Royal Thai Immigration Police's website.

This is for the grandfather clause. Under the interpretation you have not been grandfather in prior to Oct 1st as you just had a "O" visa without the extension of stay permit.

Since I am working as a self employed international consultant, I do not have a regulaer monthly income - but I make much more than 480K annually. Does this mean that I can not transfer larger amounts 3-4 times a year - but rather divide it into 12 equal transfers of no less than 40K ???

You write a third person letter that you are a international consultant. You then go to your Embassy and get a "income certificate" from the embassy notorized. This will work.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Sunbelt Asia]

I have not asked my embassy to have my income certified, but I doubt that they are able to do this before at least a year after the income is made. In Scandinavia, where I come from - we have a tax declaration annually and the income is finally certified the followingyear. Also, since I am working international, I get quite a bit of my annual income outside Scandinavia.

With people that are on state pensions and alike, there should be no problems to have this certified, - but in my case as self employed, I do not think my embassy could or would certify any income before a year after. That would of course create a new problem .....

This should not be a problem. With your letter you wrote and proof of funds coming in, on this basis the Embassy should notarize the income certificate. Other Embassies have done so.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[jaypee]

Sorry, - but I still haven't got any aswer if Order 606/2549 - 7.17 (6) is translated and understood right, quoting - "If the alien does not have the minimum income above, he shall have an account deposit in Thailand in the name of either party or both of not less than Baht 400,000. Proof of account deposit for the previous 3 months is required"-

This clause is taking care of those of who has got no REGULAR MONTHLY income, - or?

Is there more to this Act / Order - is it mistranslated - or what ?? As it stands now; - this alien has not got the minimum income, BUT HAS not less than Baht 400.000. and CAN PROOF this by showing account deposits for the previous 3 months !!! So I should be granted an Non Imm O extension. Right?

[Sunbelt Asia]

My question is now that I've got 400K in the bank and have used it this year, having been grandfathered in, can I just leave it sitting there for a year until next year, with no activity on the account, and use it again? In other words, what are they looking for here ? Is it money coming in from the outside ?

Not required that it came from overseas. Just that you have the money in the bank account for three months prior to applying or getting the renewal.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[Sunbelt Asia]

The alternative is to put the wife to work earning the required amount by show of tax payments. As tax rates are not that high here it is probably not that expensive.

Most cases it is 2,166 Baht tax per month.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[jaypee]

Sorry, seems that our posts crossed each other. You answer some of the Q's in my latest post. Still do not agree with your way of "reading" the clause, though.... BTW, does anyone know if it translated correctly ??

[Sunbelt Asia]

Sorry, seems that our posts crossed each other. You answer some of the Q's in my latest post. Still do not agree with your way of "reading" the clause, though....

The key is the bold print. A non immigrant visa is not " permitted to stay by the result of having married to a Thai wife "

Except for the case that the said foreign national has entered Thailand before this Order is enforced and the foreign national has been permitted to stay in the Kingdom by the result of having married to a Thai wife

BTW, does anyone know if it translated correctly ??

Our translation is

(6) In case of the applicant who is married to a Thai wife, one of them or both of them need to have the total annual income that is averaged out not less than 40,000 Baht per month. Except for the case that the said foreign national has entered Thailand before this Order is enforced and the foreign national has been permitted to stay in the Kingdom by the result of having married to a Thai wife, then if the applicant does not have the said income, then, the latest 3 months records of the account book of any Bank in Thailand with the account name of either or both parties need to have the amount of money not less than 400,000 Baht.

The entire translation is here...

National_Police_Office_Order_Oct_2006_.pdf

Sorry, - but I still haven't got any aswer if Order 606/2549 - 7.17 (6) is translated and understood right, quoting - "If the alien does not have the minimum income above, he shall have an account deposit in Thailand in the name of either party or both of not less than Baht 400,000. Proof of account deposit for the previous 3 months is required"-

This clause is taking care of those of who has got no REGULAR MONTHLY income, - or?

Yes if you have been grandfathered in prior to Oct 1st 2006.

Is there more to this Act / Order - is it mistranslated - or what ?? As it stands now; - this alien has not got the minimum income, BUT HAS not less than Baht 400.000. and CAN PROOF this by showing account deposits for the previous 3 months !!! So I should be granted an Non Imm O extension. Right?

Sorry, under Thai law, the answer is "no" as you did not get the extension of stay prior to Oct 1st.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[jaypee]

Your translation is very much different than you'll find on the official website of the Immigration Police. I can fully understand yours and the logic (or loss of....) of it.

If your tranlation is correct, - you are therefore right in all your answers in this case.

10-4 and thank you very much. I might become a customer of yours one day .....

[Sunbelt Asia]

Your translation is very much different than you'll find on the official website of the Immigration Police. I can fully understand yours and the logic (or loss of....) of it.

Think we pay our translator more than they do. At least we had ours translated about a month before Immigration ever did.

If your tranlation is correct, - you are therefore right in all your answers in this case.

Immigrations understand it the same way.

10-4 and thank you very much. I might become a customer of yours one day .....

You are welcome. Happy Holidays.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[gmac]

Our translation is

(6) In case of the applicant who is married to a Thai wife, one of them or both of them need to have the total annual income that is averaged out not less than 40,000 Baht per month. Except for the case that the said foreign national has entered Thailand before this Order is enforced and the foreign national has been permitted to stay in the Kingdom by the result of having married to a Thai wife, then if the applicant does not have the said income, then, the latest 3 months records of the account book of any Bank in Thailand with the account name of either or both parties need to have the amount of money not less than 400,000 Baht.

Hi Sunbelt

You seem to have a pretty good handle on this Thai wife extension.

Mine is a case of an applicant who is grandfathered; last year my extension was based on an income of 35500 Baht which is equivalent to 426000 Baht annually and was sufficient to meet the then 400,000 requirement on an either/or basis. They also wanted a Bank letter confirming a balance in my account and I deposited 100,000 Baht although this did not appear to be required. (I didn't think my book, unused for 4 months, with a 32 Baht balance would have looked very good!)

Do you have any experience yet of applications since 1st October where the applicant is allowed to use a combination of the income plus a lump sum as I will have a shortfall of 4-5000 Baht per month this year, or will I need to put 400,000 Baht in the Bank.

The wording of the order certainly seems to suggest it must be one or the other.

[Nakhon1]

You write a third person letter that you are a international consultant. You then go to your Embassy and get a "income certificate" from the embassy notorized. This will work.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

I do not share your confidence. But doubtless you have more experience in dealing with the Scandinavian embassies thasn I do.

[Sunbelt Asia]

Hi Sunbelt

You seem to have a pretty good handle on this Thai wife extension.

Mine is a case of an applicant who is grandfathered; last year my extension was based on an income of 35500 Baht which is equivalent to 426000 Baht annually and was sufficient to meet the then 400,000 requirement on an either/or basis. They also wanted a Bank letter confirming a balance in my account and I deposited 100,000 Baht although this did not appear to be required. (I didn't think my book, unused for 4 months, with a 32 Baht balance would have looked very good!)

Do you have any experience yet of applications since 1st October where the applicant is allowed to use a combination of the income plus a lump sum as I will have a shortfall of 4-5000 Baht per month this year, or will I need to put 400,000 Baht in the Bank.

The wording of the order certainly seems to suggest it must be one or the other.

In most cases, it is just one option or the other.

Just have your accountant refile a readjusted PND #1 for the last three months. Pay the difference in tax which will be around 500 Baht per month. You will have a very small fine for the back tax.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[gmac]

Hi Sunbelt

You seem to have a pretty good handle on this Thai wife extension.

Mine is a case of an applicant who is grandfathered; last year my extension was based on an income of 35500 Baht which is equivalent to 426000 Baht annually and was sufficient to meet the then 400,000 requirement on an either/or basis. They also wanted a Bank letter confirming a balance in my account and I deposited 100,000 Baht although this did not appear to be required. (I didn't think my book, unused for 4 months, with a 32 Baht balance would have looked very good!)

Do you have any experience yet of applications since 1st October where the applicant is allowed to use a combination of the income plus a lump sum as I will have a shortfall of 4-5000 Baht per month this year, or will I need to put 400,000 Baht in the Bank.

The wording of the order certainly seems to suggest it must be one or the other.

In most cases, it is just one option or the other.

Just have your accountant refile a readjusted PND #1 for the last three months. Pay the difference in tax which will be around 500 Baht per month. You will have a very small fine for the back tax.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

Sorry, I mislead you.

I am not working, my income is from a pension in the UK, I have no accountant and no form PND#1. I do have a letter from British Embassy confirming a pension income of STG523.90 per month which was sufficient last year but with the new 40K benchmark now falls short.

In fact, as I used the income method last year, is the 400K in the Bank option still even open to me?

[Nawtilus]

Do they accept atm receipts of regualr withdrawals as proof of the income ?

[Sunbelt Asia]

I am not working, my income is from a pension in the UK, I have no accountant and no form PND#1. I do have a letter from British Embassy confirming a pension income of STG523.90 per month which was sufficient last year but with the new 40K benchmark now falls short

In fact, as I used the income method last year, is the 400K in the Bank option still even open to me?

The 400K in the bank option is still open even if you used income last year. Any chance to show any more income from any other source?

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[rainman]

In regards to the income of 40k or more per month, that doesn't necessarily need to be from inside Thailand and with a work permit, right? Say you hold a certain position with an offshore company and get xx,xxx per month salary - that would qualify for an extension based on income as well?

[Nawtilus]

Rainy, yes any income from anywhere qualifies as long as you can prove it somehow.

[thai_narak]

Ok, the income is from overseas so do you have to pay tax for it?

[Sunbelt Asia]

Ok, the income is from overseas so do you have to pay tax for it?

They are not looking for any tax payment in Thailand, on this income.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

[thai_narak]

Ok, the income is from overseas so do you have to pay tax for it?

They are not looking for any tax payment in Thailand, on this income.

www.sunbeltasiagroup.com

because I have seen may posts on setting up a company blah, blah, blah just to be able to pay tax to satisfy the immi laws. Now, it's clear...

Thanks...

Edited December 4, 2006 by thai_narak