I got pulled into a rental agreement dishonestly. The realtors acted as the landlords, supplied their ID card and left. We have recently found out they are not anything but realtors, and the land lord is not willing to update the lease agreement or supply her ID card and necessary forms. I need to get a certificate of residence and she is blocking me completely. I have mentioned this is illegal, and she needs to fill a TM30 form, but she will not supply any documentation whatsoever. How can I get around this?

make a police report and take a copy to immigration also to your landlord/lady

 

Edited October 30, 20169 yr by ubonjoe
inflammatory comment removed

3 minutes ago, Lamkyong said:

make a police report and take a copy to immigration also to your landlord/lady

 

Could you explain what the police report would be for?

just to nudge her into doing basically is her legal duty   no more no less  after all he was looking for help

 

 

 

just an idea   maybe of some help   don't you think  ??  not  the precise way to go  as i am not ofea  ? with the procedure required  maybe you could offer something

Other than moving I cannot think of what you could do.

It might be easier to get a certificate of residence from your embassy.

The owner can be fined for not filing the paperwork they need to file, I suggest reporting them to your local immigration office.

 

They're not going to like this though.

Not much you can do.  If there is a problem because of this, your landlord will be fined 800 baht, not you. I would leave as soon as possible though, maybe after a month and find  a more willing landlord.

Correct me if I misunderstand but I think what you said:

 

"land lord is not willing to update the lease agreement or supply her ID card and necessary forms. "

 

It is within her legal right not to update, extend or renew the lease.  It's her property not yours nor the realtors.  When the time period is over it's over. She doesn't want to lease it, period.  So she does not need supply anything to show residence. Time to move.  That how I understand your situation.

 

The real  issue is with the realtors who lured you into an agreement that appears to be false. You could report it to Police and get a report.  What good is it? Get a lawyer. In the mean time, it appears moving is your only option.

Im not understanding what the realtors did wrong, thats what realtors do, they act as agent for the owner and rent it out. I have signed a couple of leases with a real estate agents . If you signed the lease with an agency wouldn't the agency also be able to put in a TM30. As the owners agent.

 

2 hours ago, Cheesekraft said:

... and the land lord is not willing to update the lease agreement or supply her ID card and necessary forms. I need to get a certificate of residence and she is blocking me completely. I have mentioned this is illegal, and she needs to fill a TM30 form, but she will not supply any documentation whatsoever. How can I get around this?

• The landlord has no legal obligation to update your lease, or provide you with a copy of her ID, or help you get a residence certificate.
• She has a legal obligation to submit a TM.30 and you could complain to immigration if she doesn't, but that's not going to solve your problem. As the tenant you could probably submit the TM.30 yourself as the 'possessor'.
• You should be able to get a certificate from your embassy.

2 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Im not understanding what the realtors did wrong, thats what realtors do, they act as agent for the owner and rent it out. I have signed a couple of leases with a real estate agents . If you signed the lease with an agency wouldn't the agency also be able to put in a TM30. As the owners agent.

 

they told us they were the owners, would maintain the house, etc, not technically illegal I am sure (except they are perhaps working illegally), and left. I extended the lease with the new owner ALREADY,  but it was very informal and the owner did not supply any documentation and is unwilling to fill out a TM30 or supply the required IDs. I did not look closely and assumed we had this already with the previous contract, but it was just the 'realtor' id card/signature. The visa company I went to for help with this said I need the landlords ID card / signature etc. Am I able to get a certificate of residence without any documentation besides for perhaps an internet bill and the paper-only lease without any signature? I will try if it is possible.

 

Edited October 30, 20169 yr by Cheesekraft

Almost certainly your landlord  did not report you as she should have when when you entered Thailand within 24 hours as she is legally required to do.

More importantly,I would be willing to bet she is not declaring your income and paying her tax obligation on what you are paying her for your  rent.

But be very careful here, you could get yourself involved in a nasty situation here, if she thinks you have caused problems for her.

She may technically be breaking the law at least twice, but as  you are a foriegner (Farang) she may turn on you as the cause of here problems.

be careful.

 

 

Anything you where told is not valid, since it is not on paper. I assume you have a rental contract, signed by both parties, which can be used for residence certificate, which you get from any immigration office.

 

I have gotten those several times for a Motorbike or bank account, never needed any Thai ID with, just the contract and my passport (+ a few hundred baht)

Here is the real reason she will not supply the  id She is not reporting this income for Tax purposes and is very scared by giving he ID she will create additional problems 

for herself

I would give her the option of giving you the  residency form or report her to Immigration and the Tax office

 

I suspect she will comply at that point

1 hour ago, BrainLife said:

 

1 hour ago, BrainLife said:

Anything you where told is not valid, since it is not on paper. I assume you have a rental contract, signed by both parties, which can be used for residence certificate, which you get from any immigration office.

 

I have gotten those several times for a Motorbike or bank account, never needed any Thai ID with, just the contract and my passport (+ a few hundred baht)

 

why you give a wrong aanswer?

1. certificate of residence is free by law! 

2. How somebody can sign a contract without proofing the ownership, in every contract I ever signed in Thailand there is a copy of ID added, from both sides. 

3. Go to IMO and report that the owner don´t want to give you a ID card copy and show your rental contract. They will solve it.

4. For a certificate of residence you can use your old rental contract with the ID cards of the agents. I am sure that the IMO will not check it down to land office . I used for 4 years every time the first contract we signed even he run only 1 year, nnever any problem

I filed my own paperwork with immigration with my signed lease agreement. My landlord

didn't have to do anything. That said I did have a copy of his passport but immigration

did not ask for it.

2 hours ago, realenglish1 said:

I would give her the option of giving you the  residency form or report her to Immigration and the Tax office

How do you report suspected tax fraud and VAT fraud in Thailand without having the fact that you're the reporter relayed to the offender by the Tax Office?

Move - the market is soooooo soft you will be grateful to your landlady that she bolted ;-) 

2 hours ago, chickenrunCM said:

 

why you give a wrong aanswer?

1. certificate of residence is free by law! 

2. How somebody can sign a contract without proofing the ownership, in every contract I ever signed in Thailand there is a copy of ID added, from both sides. 

3. Go to IMO and report that the owner don´t want to give you a ID card copy and show your rental contract. They will solve it.

4. For a certificate of residence you can use your old rental contract with the ID cards of the agents. I am sure that the IMO will not check it down to land office . I used for 4 years every time the first contract we signed even he run only 1 year, nnever any problem

 

1. Try getting a certificate of residence free from Jomtien immigration.

2. I do have a rental agreement without ID cards attached and I get certificates of residence based on it with no hassle.

does the landlord pay tax on the rent you pay him 

maybe a subtle threat from the inland revenue might persuade him or her

If you are renting real estate from someone other than the legal owner, that person needs a formal power of attorney. This must be signed and by the owner and accompanied by a signed copy of the owner's ID card. This is then attached to the lease agreement you sign with the representative. Without a valid power of attorney, any agreement you sign with a third party is invalid.

4 hours ago, chickenrunCM said:

... 1. certificate of residence is free by law! 

 

Some offices will request a couple hundred baht for their trouble.  Some folks complained about this, and now some offices refuse to offer them at all.  Have fun paying your Embassy's fee, if you are unfortunate enough to live where these "activists" have been active. 

 

 

The next step would be to "officialize" this further.  Then, we can pay, maybe, 3000 Baht 'with receipt' for the certificate, to fund a new department to review them, which will add 30 days to the process. 

If you have her mobile number why not ask immigration to call her and explain why she needs to provide a copy of her ID for the required notification.  I had the same issue and once it was understood it was actually to the landlords interest the paperwork was forthcoming.  Not sure it will help with the Certificate of Residence paperwork but if you demonstrate you are trying to help them not get into trouble sometimes a more reasonable stance is taken thereafter.  A lot of suspicion of Thai people against aurthority causes this probably as they are sick of the corruption everywhere.

might even be better to have your visa agent call her and explain the law to her...that way you would only be sicking a lawyer on her (unless it is a BS agent), as opposed to sicking the law on her...big difference...a nudge from a lawyer is the best extrajudicial tool available (that is legal!).

the realtor were acting as the landlords agents so there id should be ok and it is the realtors responsibility to file the tm30 .  that is what the owner is paying the realtor to do and that is to manage the property,  unless  I am missing something in the original post.

22 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Im not understanding what the realtors did wrong, thats what realtors do, they act as agent for the owner and rent it out. I have signed a couple of leases with a real estate agents . If you signed the lease with an agency wouldn't the agency also be able to put in a TM30. As the owners agent.

 

 

From memory, when I rented I took a copy of the lease with me as proof. Immigration in Hua Hin accepted this as far as I recall. 

8 hours ago, tom21 said:

the realtor were acting as the landlords agents so there id should be ok and it is the realtors responsibility to file the tm30 . 

It is never the agents responsibility to submit the TM.30. It is the responsibility of anyone that qualifies as the House-master, owner or possessor of the property. 

Cheesekraft, are you sure that your immigration office refuses to issue a residence certificate to a foreigner whose arrival at the residence where he lives was not notified to immigration with the form TM.30?

maybe she is not the real owner of the property ?

Would it work to use the realtors ID card that was provided. Tell immigration that is what was provided.