Gun Laws in Thailand

[Kwasaki]

21 hours ago, JohnnyJazz said:

How much do you pay ?

 

I would like a place you go to as cheap as that near me,  l only shoot a CM about 3 times a year when on a visit, 1,700 for 30 - 45 cal ammo.

Waiting a Thai friend in my village to arrange a visit to police range and an army one not to far from me.

Nice hobby to be able to do.  

 

[JohnnyJazz]

2 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

 

I would like a place you go to as cheap as that near me,  l only shoot a CM about 3 times a year when on a visit, 1,700 for 30 - 45 cal ammo.

Waiting a Thai friend in my village to arrange a visit to police range and an army one not to far from me.

Nice hobby to be able to do.  

 

 

Unfortunately that's the price in most places open to foreigners. The best shooting ranges I found in Bangkok are operated by the army but foreigners are usually not really welcomed. They are quite strict, and rightly so, about safety rules and foreigners are mostly perceived as a source of trouble. The problem is they make no difference between tourists who just want to shoot for fun and residents who are more serious about their practice.

[Kwasaki]

17 hours ago, JohnnyJazz said:

 

Unfortunately that's the price in most places open to foreigners. The best shooting ranges I found in Bangkok are operated by the army but foreigners are usually not really welcomed. They are quite strict, and rightly so, about safety rules and foreigners are mostly perceived as a source of trouble. The problem is they make no difference between tourists who just want to shoot for fun and residents who are more serious about their practice.

 

Yeah l hope because of Thai friends l get an invite to shoot without having to own a gun, just pay for ammo,  l'll just wait and see.

You have taken out the words l was thinking,  it's also a bit annoying to me having had gun licences in the UK and knowing some Thais who have guns here that wouldn't,  l would say stand a chance of buying & owning guns in a very strict gun-law England.

I went gun ownership initially for protection because of some nutter called Michael Ryan but it soon became a sporting activity which l enjoyed.

Before l'm told to go home   l fully appreciate my position here and so sold my guns in England before l came to Thailand to retire. 

l compensate privately with Archery as a sport which l enjoy very much,  have all my own equipment and small amount of farmland to practice.

l find Archery more of a challenge than shooting.  

[Arkady]

On 12/15/2016 at 4:28 PM, JohnnyJazz said:

 

Unfortunately that's the price in most places open to foreigners. The best shooting ranges I found in Bangkok are operated by the army but foreigners are usually not really welcomed. They are quite strict, and rightly so, about safety rules and foreigners are mostly perceived as a source of trouble. The problem is they make no difference between tourists who just want to shoot for fun and residents who are more serious about their practice.

 

I gave up shooting here for many years, until I got the Thai ID card, because I got fed up with not being able to join the government owned ranges in Bangkok.  As a permanent resident I was allowed to buy guns but not to join most of the clubs.  The Territorial Defence (Ror Tor) range at Sanam Luang has always allowed foreigners in - on the quiet nowadays as they got into trouble years ago for inviting tour buses there.  But they always charge special prices to foreigners for ammo and gun rental.  The instructors rent out their own guns and buy the ammo for you as a middle man with a mark-up because non-members can't go to the ammo window themselves.  There was also the issue of being hassled by the guard at the gate, if you wanted to park inside the compound, which is advisable, if you have your own guns, rather than carrying them through the streets.  

 

These days there are a few more private ranges in Bangkok which usually allow foreign members and most have guns for rental.  There is Prapadaeng, the Crocodile Farm, Phumpailin and a few others.  The army range near Victory Monument used to allow foreign members but I can't say, if it still does.  The Thai Trap and Skeet Association at Ramkhamhaeng allows foreign members at a higher price but has no guns for rental.  The Navy Seals Special Warfare Range at Sattahip allows foreign members, despite being military, but has no guns for rental.  If have your own rifle or have a friend or spouse with one, you can pass an enjoyable day there shooting .308, .223, .338 etc from 100 to 800 metres.  Shooting .338LM is an exercise for millionaires in Thailand, as the ammo sells for around B850 a round, when you can find it, but needless to say there are plenty of millionaire Thai gun enthusiasts and people regularly shoot that calibre at Sattahip.

 

I know  a few people who have got Thai spouses to register guns and join clubs, so they can take them to shoot as guests.

 

 

[Arkady]

On 12/14/2016 at 4:25 PM, JohnnyJazz said:

 

How much do you pay ?

 

I pay 750 THB for a box of 50 bullets. 200 rounds this morning = 3,000 THB. I don't consider myself  poor but that's not something I can afford to do everyday.

 

And that is for low power, locally made lead nosed semi-wadcutter 9mm cartridges which Thais call 'practice' ammo.  Imported FMJ 9mm will set you back double that (HPJ double that again) and locally made stuff somewhere in between.  The SWC rounds are fine for target practice and make a nice round hole that is easy to see but, if you are practicing for home defense, you need to practice with the rounds you would actually use. 

 

Due to the higher cost of ammo in Thailand, .22lr is good option.  .22 rifles and handguns are fun to shoot and ammo is usually around B350 a box of 50.

[JohnnyJazz]

20 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

And that is for low power, locally made lead nosed semi-wadcutter 9mm cartridges which Thais call 'practice' ammo.  Imported FMJ 9mm will set you back double that (HPJ double that again) and locally made stuff somewhere in between.  The SWC rounds are fine for target practice and make a nice round hole that is easy to see but, if you are practicing for home defense, you need to practice with the rounds you would actually use. 

 

Due to the higher cost of ammo in Thailand, .22lr is good option.  .22 rifles and handguns are fun to shoot and ammo is usually around B350 a box of 50.

 

 

http://www.bulletmaster.co.th/

 

 

_

Edited December 18, 2016 by JohnnyJazz
Added link to mfr

[roo860]

 

Yeah l hope because of Thai friends l get an invite to shoot without having to own a gun, just pay for ammo,  l'll just wait and see.

You have taken out the words l was thinking,  it's also a bit annoying to me having had gun licences in the UK and knowing some Thais who have guns here that wouldn't,  l would say stand a chance of buying & owning guns in a very strict gun-law England.

I went gun ownership initially for protection because of some nutter called Michael Ryan but it soon became a sporting activity which l enjoyed.

Before l'm told to go home[emoji23] l fully appreciate my position here and so sold my guns in England before l came to Thailand to retire. 

l compensate privately with Archery as a sport which l enjoy very much,  have all my own equipment and small amount of farmland to practice.

l find Archery more of a challenge than shooting. [emoji106]

You said you 'went gun ownership for protection ', would that be shotgun or firearms certificate?

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[Kwasaki]

7 minutes ago, roo860 said:

You said you 'went gun ownership for protection ', would that be shotgun or firearms certificate?

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

 

In UK applied for Shogun licence first as it was quickest way to have a gun at home.

Used a farmer friends rifle on a farm as farmers could acquire firearms.

I started as a guest at a firearms club much later and was in a probation period to acquire a firearms cert.

[Kwasaki]

21 hours ago, Arkady said:

but if you are practicing for home defense, you need

 you need....a  piston grip shotgun. 

[roo860]

 

In UK applied for Shogun licence first as it was quickest way to have a gun at home.

Used a farmer friends rifle on a farm as farmers could acquire firearms.

I started as a guest at a firearms club much later and was in a probation period to acquire a firearms cert.

I had shotgun ticket post M Ryan, when you could keep them under the bed. Then the knee jerk reaction by gov. My county police said steel cabinet, next county said wooden one ok. Was a total balls up.

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[Kwasaki]

2 minutes ago, roo860 said:

 

 

I had shotgun ticket post M Ryan, when you keep them under the bed. Then the knee jerk reaction by gov. My county police said steel cabinet, next county said wooden one ok. Was a total balls up.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

 

 

 

Yeah got mine just before all that and remember the crack down.

Interesting thread this wonder what requirements are enforced in Thailand. 

[Arkady]

3 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

 

Yeah got mine just before all that and remember the crack down.

Interesting thread this wonder what requirements are enforced in Thailand. 

 

I have been told that for applications in Bangkok the Interior Ministry sometimes asks applicants with over 20 or so registered guns to include a photograph to show how they store all their guns safely.  I have never been asked anything about storage when applying for permits in Thailand over 20 years.  One gun shop in Bangkok told me that a customer had over 1,000 registered guns kept in display cabinets.  Casually talking to another customer in a gun shop, he told me he already had over 200 and was still looking.  Any model of hand gun I asked him about, he already had one and gave me his brief review.  He said he bought most in the name of his wife, as she was a civil servant and able to buy at a discount through the Interior Ministry welfare scheme.

[Arkady]

6 hours ago, JohnnyJazz said:

 

 

http://www.bulletmaster.co.th/

 

 

_

 

I think that is the standard Bullet Master 9mm 135grn lead round nosed (LRN), although I have never seen it in that attractive packaging. They seem to change the packaging a lot. Their LRNs are underpowered and sold as practice ammo.  The SWCs I mentioned are, I think, only available in .45.  You also can get Bullet Master 9mm 124grn FMJ which Thais called 'real ammo', as opposed to the practice ammo.  It doesn't actually make any difference to the trajectory when shooting up to 25m.  It is just that shooters practising for self defense need to practice with the rounds they will use in their self defence weapon to get used to the recoil.  Hollow points are usually recommended for self defence and generally have the same recoil as FMJs.  Thai Arms produces pretty much the same range of ammo as Bullet Master and there is another Thai manufacturer called Royal that also produces pretty much the same but is not seen much these days.  You have to bear in mind that that Thai ammo manufacturers don't produce to SAAMI specs, so you can't guarantee the exact pressure a given round will produce.  I think they also reload their own cases (the brass is picked up from ranges and sold, although reloading by individuals is not permitted - go figure.)  Most US and European arms manufacturers recommend against using ammo made in third world countries in their products.  Some European and US manufactured ammo is available in Thailand but you have normally have to buy it yourself from gun shops which involves having a permit. 

[Arkady]

5 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

 you need....a  piston grip shotgun. 

 

These are quite popular in Thailand.  Of course they are very effective at close range and the risk of overpenetration is less than with many handgun/cartridge combinations. My problem with these is that they are a bit unwieldy and the noise from firing a 00 buckshot (not even magnum which produce too much smoke and recoil as well as noise) cartridge through an 18 inch barrel shotgun in an enclosed space without ear protection could cause deafness for the user.  My personal choice for a night stand gun is a .38 special revolver with a 4 inch barrel loaded with hollow points.  It will always work, even if neglected and not cleaned and oiled for years.  If one chamber doesn't fire for any reason (usually a defective cartridge), you just pull the trigger again and there is an extremely high probability it will fire the second time (not the case with a jammed semi-auto hand gun or pump or semi-auto shotgun).  The .38 hollow points have enough power to stop most assailants but are less likely to overpenetrate than 9mm or .45 rounds. .357 magnum revolvers are also too loud, have too much recoil and too much penetration in my opinion.  Revolvers are quite easy for women to use.  A 4 inch barrel is not so long that it makes it too easy for an assailant to grab it from you and a snub nosed revolver creates a lot of recoil.  It is also advisable to have a powerful tactical flashlight handy to temporarily blind your assailant as well as light up the centre of mass target area.

[JohnnyJazz]

^ My all time favorite. Shooting with style ;-)

Edited December 18, 2016 by JohnnyJazz

[Kwasaki]

18 hours ago, Arkady said:

Hollow points are usually recommended for self defence and generally have the same recoil as FMJs. 

Thai Arms produces pretty much the same range of ammo as Bullet Master

 

Again very interesting to gun enthusiasts l seem to remember that hollow point were illegal maybe it was just mis-information or a UK thing.

 

Does Thai Arms produce for gov army l ask because firing 45 cal at CM apart from the gun that kept jamming out of 30 rounds 5 didn't fire and l noticed the primer had been hit so l guess the gun isn't properly maintained.

 

Here a funny clip the most powerful bullet that's not very practical.   

 

   

[Kwasaki]

18 hours ago, Arkady said:

Of course they are very effective at close range and the risk of overpenetration is less than with many handgun/cartridge combinations.

 

Experimented a lot with shot-guns and if l understand your  " over-penetration "  comment l would disagree only because of the many combinations of barrel type and many cartridge type that are available in some country's.

You wouldn't want to be standing behind a 10mm steel door with someone firing a shotgun cartridge loaded with ammo Pt5.  

 

That said the reason for my preference of shotgun home protection is using rock-salt loaded cartridges which will disable within a house area and avoid killing,  you just have to remember when the lead or steel loaded ones are chambered.  

 

 

 

[up-country_sinclair]

Are there rules about carrying a loaded handgun in Thailand?  I know in some countries you need a special permit or license to carry a "concealed weapon".  Is this true in Thailand?  What about having a loaded weapon in a car?

 

Yes, I'm asking because this is apparently what my idiot brother in law is up to these days.

Edited December 22, 2016 by up-country_sinclair

[CLW]

Sorry for cross posting, is there any sports shooting club in Bangkok that allows foreigners to shoot (renting there) with small caliber weapons?

[Arkady]

On 12/18/2016 at 5:15 PM, JohnnyJazz said:

^ My all time favorite. Shooting with style ;-)

 

Mare's leg lever action guns like this one but with a complete stock and the more common version with a full length 18 or 20 inch barrel are legally available to civilians in Thailand.  You can find them in .22lr, .357 magnum and .44 magnum made by Henry and Marlin of the USA.  The latter two calibers are, of course, pistol ammunition.  They shoot magnum pistol cartridges at higher velocity from the longer barrel and with much less recoil but they are fiddly to take apart for cleaning and many of them fail to feed or eject which can sometimes mean taking it home or to a gunsmith with live round stuck in it.  Don't ask me how I know this.  Nice guns when they work well though.

[Arkady]

On 12/22/2016 at 4:14 PM, CLW said:

Sorry for cross posting, is there any sports shooting club in Bangkok that allows foreigners to shoot (renting there) with small caliber weapons?

 

I think all the private ranges accept foreigners as members, e.g. Crocodile Farm, Phumpailin, Prapadaeng and most have guns for rent.  Call ahead to ask.  Foreigners can sneak in through the back door at the Sanam Luang range and rent anything from a handgun to a .22 rifle to a 12 guage pump action shotgun.

[alocacoc]

There are some Thai gun magazines with hundreds of commercial ads. and hundreds of private ads. I bet, that everyone could easily buy a weapon from a private seller without any licence.

[Arkady]

On 12/19/2016 at 10:31 AM, Kwasaki said:

 

Again very interesting to gun enthusiasts l seem to remember that hollow point were illegal maybe it was just mis-information or a UK thing.

 

Does Thai Arms produce for gov army l ask because firing 45 cal at CM apart from the gun that kept jamming out of 30 rounds 5 didn't fire and l noticed the primer had been hit so l guess the gun isn't properly maintained.

 

   

 

Hollow points, or dum dums, are banned from military use by the 1899 Hague Convention but they are not banned from use by law enforcement or civilians.  I would think virtually all US police departments use them as their standard issue due to the better stopping power and lower risk of over penetration that could endanger an innocent bystander standing behind the target.  Police snipers in the US use polymer tipped .308 rifle cartridges which are the hollow points with the hollow tip filled in with polymer to make them fly better.  The polymer tips get out of the way on impact and allow the bullet to expand.  Even though the US military doesn't use these and only issues NATO ball ammo, its M16s, due to the light 5.56mm bullet which tumbles in flight from around 200 metres, can cause horrific wounds that may be worse than hollow point wounds and certainly worse than wounds inflicted by the heavier AK47 7.62mm bullet.  Witness the terrible wounds inflicted on Palestnian demonstrators by the Israeli Defense Force using 5.56mm rifles. The M16 is, of course, also the Thai military's standard long arm and more recent rifles they have ordered from Israel and Austria also use the same NATO 5.56mm 'tumbling' ball ammo.  Most of the red shirts killed or seriously wounded in the crack down on the red shirts in 2010 were shot with M16s or more modern 5.56mm rifles, which also accounted for the seriousness of the wounding.  Some soldiers were issued with shotguns but were seen on YouTube clips firing them at targets that were well out of range.   Seh Daeng was killed with a .308 rifle. Since the bullet fragmented, I would guess it was one of those polymer tipped cartridges used by US police snipers.  A NATO ball ammo cartridge would more likely have passed through intact at that close range which must have been 100-150 metres.

 

Sorry I digress.  In the UK you can buy hollow point rifle cartridges, or soft points which is a variation, in most calibers for shooting game.  In Thailand hollow points are available to civilians.  Since there is no standardization of police weapons or ammunition, I would guess most Thai police use ball ammunition because it is cheaper without caring about the lower stopping power or risk to innocent bystanders of over penetration.  You can't see what they put in their semi auto pistols but you can sometimes see the ones who still use .38 special revolvers walking around with ball ammo cartridges showing in their gun belt.  This is true of all the armed bank security guards who are only allowed .38 special revolvers and are only issued with ball ammunition in order to minimize the risk of not stopping a more heavily armed assailant and maximizes the risk to innocent bystanders. TIT.

 

Yes, Thai Arms does manufacture for the Thai military.  The military buys .38, 9mm and .45 pistol ammo, 12 guage shotgun ammo and 5.56mm and 7.62mm (.308) standard NATO rifle ball ammo from them.  Failure to fire can be caused by poor primers, oil in the magazine which can deactivate primers or by a poorly maintained gun, as you suggest.  Thai armorers are usually very fast but heavy handed in cleaning guns.  They dump the whole thing into a bucket of homemade and very dirty solvent and them soak them in oil when they are done. If the lubricant gets into the mag, it could easily deactivate the primers. The rental guns are usually heavily used and not well maintained, although heavily cleaned and lubed.  Pistols with such heavy use will need some parts replaced at some point.  Springs wear out which could cause light primer strikes and the firing pin can also wear out with the same result.  The extractor can wear out, causing failure to eject.  Last but not least the magazines can wear out quite quickly and need the springs and followers replacing.  Also the feed lips can get bent slightly out of shape.  But these magazine defects will mainly cause failures to feed, rather than failures to fire.   If you get a failure to fire, it is very important that you wait for at least 30 seconds before ejecting the live cartridge, in case you get a 'hang fire', which could result in the cartridge exploding out of battery and causing serious injury or death.  I never heard a Thai shooting instructor explain this to new shooters and you see them wrenching an unfired live round out of the gun immediately.

 

[Kwasaki]

4 hours ago, Arkady said:

 

Hollow points, or dum dums, are banned from military use by the 1899 Hague Convention but they are not banned from use by law enforcement or civilians.  I would think virtually all US police departments use them as their standard issue due to the better stopping power and lower risk of over penetration that could endanger an innocent bystander standing behind the target.  Police snipers in the US use polymer tipped .308 rifle cartridges which are the hollow points with the hollow tip filled in with polymer to make them fly better.  The polymer tips get out of the way on impact and allow the bullet to expand.  Even though the US military doesn't use these and only issues NATO ball ammo, its M16s, due to the light 5.56mm bullet which tumbles in flight from around 200 metres, can cause horrific wounds that may be worse than hollow point wounds and certainly worse than wounds inflicted by the heavier AK47 7.62mm bullet.  Witness the terrible wounds inflicted on Palestnian demonstrators by the Israeli Defense Force using 5.56mm rifles. The M16 is, of course, also the Thai military's standard long arm and more recent rifles they have ordered from Israel and Austria also use the same NATO 5.56mm 'tumbling' ball ammo.  Most of the red shirts killed or seriously wounded in the crack down on the red shirts in 2010 were shot with M16s or more modern 5.56mm rifles, which also accounted for the seriousness of the wounding.  Some soldiers were issued with shotguns but were seen on YouTube clips firing them at targets that were well out of range.   Seh Daeng was killed with a .308 rifle. Since the bullet fragmented, I would guess it was one of those polymer tipped cartridges used by US police snipers.  A NATO ball ammo cartridge would more likely have passed through intact at that close range which must have been 100-150 metres.

 

Sorry I digress.  In the UK you can buy hollow point rifle cartridges, or soft points which is a variation, in most calibers for shooting game.  In Thailand hollow points are available to civilians.  Since there is no standardization of police weapons or ammunition, I would guess most Thai police use ball ammunition because it is cheaper without caring about the lower stopping power or risk to innocent bystanders of over penetration.  You can't see what they put in their semi auto pistols but you can sometimes see the ones who still use .38 special revolvers walking around with ball ammo cartridges showing in their gun belt.  This is true of all the armed bank security guards who are only allowed .38 special revolvers and are only issued with ball ammunition in order to minimize the risk of not stopping a more heavily armed assailant and maximizes the risk to innocent bystanders. TIT.

 

Yes, Thai Arms does manufacture for the Thai military.  The military buys .38, 9mm and .45 pistol ammo, 12 guage shotgun ammo and 5.56mm and 7.62mm (.308) standard NATO rifle ball ammo from them.  Failure to fire can be caused by poor primers, oil in the magazine which can deactivate primers or by a poorly maintained gun, as you suggest.  Thai armorers are usually very fast but heavy handed in cleaning guns.  They dump the whole thing into a bucket of homemade and very dirty solvent and them soak them in oil when they are done. If the lubricant gets into the mag, it could easily deactivate the primers. The rental guns are usually heavily used and not well maintained, although heavily cleaned and lubed.  Pistols with such heavy use will need some parts replaced at some point.  Springs wear out which could cause light primer strikes and the firing pin can also wear out with the same result.  The extractor can wear out, causing failure to eject.  Last but not least the magazines can wear out quite quickly and need the springs and followers replacing.  Also the feed lips can get bent slightly out of shape.  But these magazine defects will mainly cause failures to feed, rather than failures to fire.   If you get a failure to fire, it is very important that you wait for at least 30 seconds before ejecting the live cartridge, in case you get a 'hang fire', which could result in the cartridge exploding out of battery and causing serious injury or death.  I never heard a Thai shooting instructor explain this to new shooters and you see them wrenching an unfired live round out of the gun immediately.

 

Very interesting post very enlightening on weapon ammo use thanks for that. 

[jpinx]

On 04/12/2016 at 0:26 AM, NeverSure said:

I think people have an irrational fear of guns. There are far more people killed each year on Thai highways than are murdered with guns in the US. LINK   LINK  That's not per capita, That's raw numbers. 

 

The US has the world's 3rd largest population so the actual number of deaths per capita is small. Same links. 

 

Throughout history I know of no murdering dictator who didn't first disarm the population. If you're happy being disarmed, simply don't live in the US. 100 million of my best friends and I plan to keep our guns.

 

Cheers.

Read this and weep,,,,, 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-38365729

 

[JimmyJ]

Has anyone who obtained a Thai permit to own a gun looked into importing a gun they own legally in the country they are a citizen of?

Edited January 7, 2017 by JimmyJ

[Hutch68]

12 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

Has anyone who obtained a Thai permit to own a gun looked into importing a gun they own legally in the country they are a citizen of?

Whats the point in sending our guns home when we need them here?

[JimmyJ]

Just now, Hutch68 said:

Whats the point in sending our guns home when we need them here?

 

The opposite.

 

Importing one's gun(s) into "here" (Thailand).

[Hutch68]

2 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

 

The opposite.

 

Importing one's gun(s) into "here" (Thailand).

Sorry misread it.

[Kwasaki]

11 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

Has anyone who obtained a Thai permit to own a gun looked into importing a gun they own legally in the country they are a citizen of?

 

My guess is it would be very difficult if at all possible and can't really see why anyone would want to do it, what would be the point of it if your already possess a Thai gun permit.