"Off-shore from LOS" Co. can legally 100 % own Land, & Biz. Address, & Dwelling in LOS ?

[Our Man in the Tropics]

"Off-shore from LOS" Co. can legally 100 % own Land, & Biz. Address, & Dwelling in LOS ?

 

Falang told me that "Off-shore from Thailand" company can 100 % own Land, Business Address, & Dwellings in Thailand, & also that Falang [ owner, & perhaps some other person of company I speculate ] can then live in Thailand on the basis of that company's presence in Thailand.

He was not canvassing for to get income from Falang pursuing this avenue.

Actually, he said that for Falang to do the legal part per Thailand, the Falang should just go to good suitable lawyer practising in Thailand.

 

So, I thought it worthy to ask of the collective knowledge from Thai Visa posters the following specific questions :

 

1.

Can "off-shore from Thailand" company  legally 100 % own :

 

1.1

Land in Thailand

 

1.2

Business Address in Thailand ?

1.2.A

Not trading internally within Thailand

1.2.B

Not manufacturing within Thailand

 

1.3

Dwelling in Thailand ?

1.3.1

House

1.3.2

Condominium

 

2.

If "Yes" to even significant part of 1. [ above ], can Falang then live in Thailand on some basis related to the "Off-shore from Thailand" company's presence in Thailand ?

 

Thanking you all in advance for your best constructive replies.

 

 

Edited November 6, 2016 by Our Man in the Tropics
Necessary qualification of string term

[Jai Dee]

Topic moved to Real Estate Forum.

 

/Moved.

[blackcab]

Unless you are bringing a lot of money to Thailand to invest, you cannot own land. Land can only be owned by Thai people or a company that is majority owned by Thai people (unless you are a serious investor with over 40 million baht).

 

You can own a freehold Condominium. Also, under certain circumstances you can own a building, but not the land it sits on.

 

Getting a business address is easy. There are serviced offices everywhere that you can use. If you would like to purchase a freehold office then that is also possible under some circumstances.

 

There are ways around land ownership regulations, but using an offshore company isn't going to help.

[wjdw]

Yes you can, research BVI, it's how most high end properties including our own is resolved, and yes you need a good lawyer from Bangkok

[blackcab]

45 minutes ago, wjdw said:

Yes you can, research BVI, it's how most high end properties including our own is resolved, and yes you need a good lawyer from Bangkok

 

How does that work?

[khundon]

A company incorporated in the British Virgin Islands.  

[trogers]

From the complexity of the issue, I would not hold my breath when it is time to sell...

[blackcab]

8 hours ago, khundon said:

A company incorporated in the British Virgin Islands.  

 

How would this company legally allow a non Thai person to own land in Thailand?

[wjdw]

Contact : http://www.hlbthai.com/ (a reputable connected legal firm in BKK) or http://www.limcharoen.com/ (another law firm specialising in such but forigner driven). They can arrange and tell you how it's done, but don't contact if you are just going to ask questions for curiosity as they will likely bill you for their time. 

There are numerous ways foreigners can freehold property in Thailand either personally or via shell corps, it all comes down to the cost, and money brought in. 

Note if your doing for an avg 15mb home, don't waste your time, you can write that off or just look at a Thai company set up,  and if you can not then look else where, these are really for 1m$ upwards properties (BOI) etc 

 

Note also one benefit to a offshore company is that you are able to transfer ownership easily and without red-

tape, as the property is owned by the company, and it's just a share transfer. 

Edited November 8, 2016 by wjdw

[Our Man in the Tropics]

Thank u everone already for helpful replies.
I think that this thread will gather much more replies over a few weeks ;
According as members hone their intended replies ;
Because, I gather that the ways to accomplish what the helpful Falang informed me about are rather technical.

 

Meanwhile, & specifically to wjdw, I am unsure if "avg 15mb home" is :
1.
indeed "THB 15 million home" ?
or
2.
typo which was meant to be "THB 1.5 million home" ?

[wjdw]

8 minutes ago, Our Man in the Tropics said:

Thank u everone already for helpful replies.
I think that this thread will gather much more replies over a few weeks ;
According as members hone their intended replies ;
Because, I gather that the ways to accomplish what the helpful Falang informed me about are rather technical.

 

Meanwhile, & specifically to wjdw, I am unsure if "avg 15mb home" is :
1.
indeed "THB 15 million home" ?
or
2.
typo which was meant to be "THB 1.5 million home" ?

 

Sorry i was not clear, avg 15,000,000 THB home... 

You need to be looking specifically at 1m$ plus. (normally around 2m$) 

For the avg home (say 5mTHB - to mean avg of - 15mTHB to max of -35mTHB for Westerners) then just a Thai company will do, your pretty safe and your not likely to have problems, unless with the partner, with 1m$ above then you seriously need to look at other options that safeguard the control of the property. 

A BVI company is then ideal, but still there are alternatives within Thailand as such BOI of Thailand which a well experienced lawyer can advise on. 

If you're competing against 1.5mTHB its natt's piss and generally a year's salary for the basic avg joe back in the West thus protecting this asset in the manners mentioned above is both pointless and in some cases impossible, from a legal - co cost side. 
 

Edited November 8, 2016 by wjdw

[Our Man in the Tropics]

Hi wdjw,

 

What costs would likely be involved at Thailand end with using "off-shore" company option ?

 

Although u write well, I confess to being confused with this portion ;

" If you're competing against 1.5mTHB its natt's piss and generally a year's salary for the basic avg joe back in the West thus protecting this asset in the manners mentioned above is both pointless and in some cases impossible, from a legal - co cost side.  "

 

Important to add to my opening post ;

I have no funds presently.

Thus, this enquiry is presently one of curiosity.

However, I know that it should be of great help to a many many Falangs & many prospective Falangs [ the term "Falang" being really "Thailand-location contingent" 8-) ]

[LPCustom69]

If someone had 35 million baht for a house, wouldn't they find a better location?

[wjdw]

1 hour ago, LPCustom69 said:

If someone had 35 million baht for a house, wouldn't they find a better location?

I take it you really have no understanding on the variation of prices in Thailand... 

In some cases, a rai of land alone is over 100mTHB . 

People buy where they feel comfortable, personally we have homes here, the Bahamas, Mainland Europe, and the UK, each serves it's purposes and each protected based on it's costs for example a estate we have in Bulgaria has been used once and really is on a low priority protection wise to us, but in Thailand the prices are so conflated, that we have had to protect due to the sheer sums invested in owning, this mean's we had to look at alternative options, generally reserved for such property valuations, and investment amount, handy though as my visa is now very long term as standard through this. 

 

Admittedly our portfolio here is not specific to one location (Province).

 

>

 

What costs would likely be involved at Thailand end with using "off-shore" company option ?

 

> Speak to legal firms all depends on location, property and costs etc. No ballpark figure, just remember for a afternoons work you could be paying EU Legal Fees prices 

 

Although u write well, I confess to being confused with this portion ;

" If you're competing against 1.5mTHB its natt's piss and generally a year's salary for the basic avg joe back in the West thus protecting this asset in the manners mentioned above is both pointless and in some cases impossible, from a legal - co cost side.  "

 

> Sorry typo, "completing" = if you are interested in a 1.5mTHB property routed offshore, in essence the value is worthless, the price of a mid ranged car, or a years very basic salary in Europe, thus affordable to write off as a error in judgement should something go wrong down the line  (just my internal calculation on cost/worth/risk), and the legal fees would be far too high in the BVI etc options , also then way too low for the Thai BOI option also for money brought in to the country. 

 

Important to add to my opening post ;

I have no funds presently.

Thus, this enquiry is presently one of curiosity.

However, I know that it should be of great help to a many many Falangs & many prospective Falangs [ the term "Falang" being really "Thailand-location contingent" 8-) ]

 Like this

> Most "farang" who go down this route, already have a lawyer telling them of their options based on their capital inflow, or are buying from a developer who has already arranged this with the properties, and respective authorities. 

For those that did not and do come across, two legal firms mentioned above are your best routes to find out what is available to you and at what cost, just note these are large and in some multinational law firms, thus the Thai way of doing business as in arriving asking 100's of questions then disappearing will likely not work, they generally bill upfront for their time . (Both have prior PWC staff so as you can imagine some of the best legal advice in Thai).

Edited November 8, 2016 by wjdw

[wjdw]

Also note TBOI option. 

"2.3 Investment: Thai real estate law allows foreigners to buy and own a limited amount of land based on an investment of 40 million baht for five consecutive years, provided that the land is used for residential purposes."

 

 

[chiang mai]

An offshore company, regardless of where it is located, still needs a vehicle inside Thailand to purchase and own the land, typically that would be a second company that is Thai and has a majority of shareholders. And even if the offshore company sells shares in itself to offshore foreigners, you're still no closer to owning land in Thailand than you would be if you started a Thai company here yourself.

[wjdw]

Just now, chiang mai said:

An offshore company, regardless of where it is located, still needs a vehicle inside Thailand to purchase and own the land, typically that would be a second company that is Thai and has a majority of shareholders. And even if the offshore company sells shares in itself to offshore foreigners, you're still no closer to owning land in Thailand than you would be if you started a Thai company here yourself.

Not exactly true, Couple a BVI setup with the Thai BOI, you can physically own without the hassle you have just mentioned. 

 

Advantages include ability to sell (transfer tax free locally) , Pass on (transfer tax free locally) and so on. 

 

Pure example also would include : RPM in Phuket, physical ownership due to BOI, Purchase through offshore company and then you have the best of both worlds, ownership fully in the offshore company, ability to own 100% outright, and sell on to others or pass on to others. etc. 

It all depends on 
:- Capital Invested
:- Thai BOI generic or specific rules on the property
:- Setup
:- Getting a good lawyer (which costs money). 

 

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, wjdw said:

Not exactly true, Couple a BVI setup with the Thai BOI, you can physically own without the hassle you have just mentioned. 

 

Advantages include ability to sell (transfer tax free locally) , Pass on (transfer tax free locally) and so on. 

 

Pure example also would include : RPM in Phuket, physical ownership due to BOI, Purchase through offshore company and then you have the best of both worlds, ownership fully in the offshore company, ability to own 100% outright, and sell on to others or pass on to others. etc. 

It all depends on 
:- Capital Invested
:- Thai BOI generic or specific rules on the property
:- Setup
:- Getting a good lawyer (which costs money). 

 

 

Yes of course if BVI BOI is the investment vehicle  but the maximum amount of land is only one rai per 40 million Baht.

[wjdw]

Not sure why the land size comes in to this discussion..?

 

Anyway as the original poster, asked a question as to whether it is possible, to which it has since been clarified as yes. 
 

Edited November 8, 2016 by wjdw

[chiang mai]

On 08/11/2016 at 5:10 PM, wjdw said:

Not sure why the land size comes in to this discussion..?

 

Anyway as the original poster, asked a question as to whether it is possible, to which it has since been clarified as yes. 
 

 

Ask yourself, how sensible would it be to tie up 40 million baht in return for ownership rights of one rai of land, it may be possible but it's certainly not desirable.

[blackcab]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

 

Ask yourself, how sensible would it be to tie up 40 million baht in return for ownership rights of one rai of land, it may be possible but it's certainly not desirable.

 

The 40 million doesn't get you any property. That costs extra.

 

You have to invest 40 Million (of foreign currency) in an approved manner. After that you have to apply for permission to purchase the land.

[chiang mai]

4 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

The 40 million doesn't get you any property. That costs extra.

 

You have to invest 40 Million (of foreign currency) in an approved manner. After that you have to apply for permission to purchase the land.

 

Yes sorry, I do understand that but I didn't word the post properly to reflect that, thanks for making it clear however.

Edited November 9, 2016 by chiang mai