Russia ready to restore relations with US, says Vladimir Putin

[ourmanflint]

9 hours ago, colinneil said:

Global security is a lot more certain now with Trump as the new President.

Fortunately Americans have seen sense and not elected that war monger Clinton.

Putin and Trump i think will try to work together for World peace.

I agree with that. Russia being out in the cold so to speak is not what the world needs, Russia needs to be and should be brought into a closer alliance with Europe especially and the USA for the good of everyone.

[Grubster]

I am hopeful that the three superpowers can find some common ground in stamping out terrorism, instead of constantly pointing fingers at each others faults.  It seems all three have terror issues, but we don't like the way the other two deal with it. 

   I still feel its all about Arms. The millions of troops and citizens being killed are just the sacrifices of profit. Sorry I just don't see any other viable reason for the nonsense we are constantly involved in. 

[craigt3365]

7 hours ago, OMGImInPattaya said:

The US can hardly complain as its been doing the same for decades. And if Hillary or the Dems have a problem with it, buy some security software with some of her Saudi millions.

You didn't answer my question:

Quote

Messing about in other countries politics is exactly what many rant about.  Yet when it's done to your favor, you are OK with it?

Sure, the US has done it, but so has Russia.  So, perhaps the West is not 90% to blame for the problems with Russia?

[Merzik]

Putin talks peace - his actions say otherwise, I doubt very much Trump will be the push over Obama was, you are naïve if you actually believe any of this very public rhetoric
 
Oh and for the record, Russia ended up not much better than Nazi Germany when ww11 ended, the west just didn't have the stomach to challenge them.....remember the USSR
 
Oh and the US did not invade the countries you mentioned above, they assisted when the communists started war mongering, other conflicts they have been involved in were all with good intent to liberate from oppression but it hasn't always worked

NATO expanded into Eastern Europe AFTER the fall of the Soviet Union and communism....breaking the deal we made with Gorby as the USSR was in its last days. Post-communist Russia has not been expansionist. Of course the 71 year Soviet Era was a different story. Alexandre Solzhenitsin estimated 66 million people were murdered by the Soviets and they had a very aggressive foreign policy.

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[Merzik]

Putin is going to walk all over his puppet. He knows how to play him. Ego.

Utter rubbish. Putin does not fund or control Trump in any way. The fact that Trump wants better relations and to avoid a disasterous war with Russia does not make him a puppet. No more than JFK was a puppet for seeking to avoid war with the USSR in his day.

Clinton demands a return to the Yeltsin years when Russia was ruled by mafia oligarchs with Western connections and Russian assets and billions of dollars were stolen and ended up in foreign bank accounts. Putin ended this plundering which is why he is so popular in Russia to this day. The Clintons are not honest liberals....they are part of international organized crime.

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[Merzik]

I would note that this is OccupyDemocrats - famous for fiction. This isn't even a quote from a news source, just an article they made up all on their own. So absolutely no credibility except as satire.

Indeed. The wikileaks are coming from heroic people inside the US government trying to clean up the criminal activities going on in our corrupt government.


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[balo]

16 hours ago, Usernames said:

The Clintons wanted war with Russia. Trump wants to work WITH the Russians.

 

BS.  Hillary Clinton wanted to work with NATO . NATO wants peaceful talks with Putin .

And what did Trump say about NATO?    He wants to pull out of NATO .

 

This is not the words of a man looking for world peace.  From NY Times interview: 

Trump said the United States shouldn't automatically come to the defense of fellow NATO members if they are attacked unless those countries have paid their bills to the alliance.

[smedly]

48 minutes ago, Merzik said:

 

NATO expanded into Eastern Europe AFTER the fall of the Soviet Union and communism....breaking the deal we made with Gorby as the USSR was in its last days. Post-communist Russia has not been expansionist. Of course the 71 year Soviet Era was a different story. Alexandre Solzhenitsin estimated 66 million people were murdered by the Soviets and they had a very aggressive foreign policy.

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Nato didn't expand anything ex USSR eastern bloc countries wanted to join the EU and Nato after years of oppression at the hands of the Russians - I wish people would stop posting nonsense on this thread, Putin is a loose cannon and is prodding and probing NATO EU and USA because he wants conflict, the west brought Russia to its knees with sanctions and he wants payback or war, he is using Syria as a catalyst and back home is building a war machine - he will not stop because the only solution he sees is conflict with the west, the Russian people are behind him because they have suffered hardships and see Putin as the leader who will lead them out of it, Putin is playing a very dangerous game - it is exactly what a cornered rat does - watch how the Ukrane and Syria play out, he has already invaded Syria and is waiting on the border of the Ukrane to do the same, WW111 has already started - the clock is ticking

[Xircal]

15 hours ago, colinneil said:

Global security is a lot more certain now with Trump as the new President.

 

 

In point of fact, it's the exact opposite. Trump has threatened to withdraw from NATO which would leave the organisation in a precarious position. If Putin were to invade the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania as he has often threatened to do NATO would be obliged to come to the defence of those countries as per Article 5 of the treaty since an attack on one NATO country is considered to be an attack on all of them.

 

Such an action would plunge Europe into a war with the Russian Federation. Russia has already moved short range nuclear missiles into Kalingrad and has threatened to use them if attacked. NATO has already responded to the threat by moving forces to Poland and other nearby countries and the RAF regularly patrols the skies in the region.

 

So not only is Trump that much more dangerous than Clinton would have been, ignoring a war between Europe and Russia would likely lead to recriminations back in the US for failing to help its allies in a time of need.

 

Trump has already made it clear he admires Putin as a strong leader and appears to be considering recognizing Crimea and lifting economic sanctions imposed for its annexation. That will only encourage Putin who will likely take the view that he has been given carte blanche to act with impunity by his 'friend' Donald Trump.

[Gene1960]

It is surprising how many people overestimate Russia and it's military might.

And I look at the map and wonder why'd Russia want to invade the Baltic countries. What's purpose? And occupation is so old fashioned and expensive.


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[craigt3365]

10 hours ago, Merzik said:

 

NATO expanded into Eastern Europe AFTER the fall of the Soviet Union and communism....breaking the deal we made with Gorby as the USSR was in its last days. Post-communist Russia has not been expansionist. Of course the 71 year Soviet Era was a different story. Alexandre Solzhenitsin estimated 66 million people were murdered by the Soviets and they had a very aggressive foreign policy.

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Hmmm..."Gorby" doesn't seem to remember this agreement:

 

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/
 

Quote

It is abundantly evident that Russian President Vladimir Putin is no fan of NATO. Indeed, he displays a pronounced—almost obsessive—antipathy toward the Alliance. He claims that NATO took advantage of Russian weakness after the collapse of the Soviet Union to enlarge to its east, in violation of promises allegedly made to Moscow by Western leaders. But no such promises were made—a point now confirmed by someone who was definitely in a position to know: Mikhail Gorbachev, then president of the Soviet Union.

 

 

[craigt3365]

10 hours ago, Merzik said:

 

Indeed. The wikileaks are coming from heroic people inside the US government trying to clean up the criminal activities going on in our corrupt government.


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Julian is inside the US government?  Are you talking about the hacked emails?  Who in the US government provided that info?

 

You might want to read this:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/05/opinion/what-were-missing-while-we-obsess-over-john-podestas-email.html

 

Quote

Whistle-blowing, as Mr. Ellsberg did, is a time-honored means for exposing the secret machinations of the powerful. But the release of huge amounts of hacked data, with no apparent oversight or curation, does the opposite. Such leaks threaten our ability to dissent by destroying privacy and unleashing a glut of questionable information that functions, somewhat unexpectedly, as its own form of censorship, rather than as a way to illuminate the maneuverings of the powerful.

 

[derator01]

A post violating fair use rules has been removed from view.  Per forum rules:

 

14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.
 

 

 

[Merzik]

 

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-shifrinson-russia-us-nato-deal--20160530-snap-story.html

NATO did break the deal not to expand into Eastern Europe:

"Russia's got a point: The U.S. broke a NATO promise

"The West has vigorously protested that no such deal was ever struck. However, hundreds of memos, meeting minutes and transcripts from U.S. archives indicate otherwise...."

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[craigt3365]

5 minutes ago, Merzik said:

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-shifrinson-russia-us-nato-deal--20160530-snap-story.html

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From the article:

 

Quote

NATO’S widening umbrella doesn’t justify Putin’s bellicosity or his incursions in Ukraine or Georgia.

 

If you understand the history these countries have with the former USSR (of which Putin was then a KGB officer), you'll understand their desire to distance themselves from Russia.  Many are still alive who experienced these atrocities.

[Merzik]

 
If you understand the history these countries have with the former USSR (of which Putin was then a KGB officer), you'll understand their desire to distance themselves from Russia.  Many are still alive who experienced these atrocities.

Did you know that the Soviet Union no longer exists ? Did you know that Putin played an important role in stopping the hardline Marxist coup against Gorby in the summer of 1991? This is why Yeltsin brought him into his government. Did you know that Alexandre Solzhenitsin supported the Russian nationalist Putin ? Was he a commie too? I was never a supporter of the Bolchvick terrorist regime. They needed to be contained and rolled back. Thank you Mr Reagan and others. I am not an enemy of Russia however. The Russians suffered more than anyone under the Soviet tyranny.

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[Merzik]

 

If you understand the history these countries have with the former USSR (of which Putin was then a KGB officer), you'll understand their desire to distance themselves from Russia.  Many are still alive who experienced these atrocities.

Per your quote from the LA Times article. Russia was not the aggressor in the Ukraine. The US put $5 billion dollars into fomenting a coup in Ukraine ( George Soros adding millions as well) against the legal government. We have the American ambassador Victoria Nueland admiiting to this. They bought up media and fed Ukrainians propaganda about "police brutality" and funded groups which later overthrew the government. Many were actual neo-nazies. The anti-Russian coup government was even more brutal and corrupt than the old one.The country is bankrupt and very unpopular. Dessertion rates in the Ukrainian government sky high. You will find a similar story in Georgia. Even the EU investigation after the war revealed it was Georgia not Russia which started the violence. Soros and his chums are even pulling the same crap in the US... funding BLM and fomenting racial conflict and chaos.

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[craigt3365]

1 minute ago, Merzik said:

 

Did you know that the Soviet Union no longer exists ? Did you know that Putin played an important role in stopping the hardline Marxist coup against Gorby in the summer of 1991? This is why Yeltsin brought him into his government. Did you know that Alexandre Solzhenitsin supported the Russian nationalist Putin ? Was he a commie too? I was never a supporter of the Bolchvick terrorist regime. They needed to be contained and rolled back. Thank you Mr Reagan and others. I am not an enemy of Russia however. The Russians suffered more than anyone under the Soviet tyranny.

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Quite aware of this history and as of today, I've visited every former USSR satellite state.  And every Eastern European one except 1, Slovenia.  Which wasn't a satellite state, but a part of the former Yugoslavia.  I've spent months in these countries.  And a great trip across Russia.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin

Quote

Putin's law-and-order image and his unrelenting approach to the Second Chechen War, soon combined to raise Putin's popularity and allowed him to overtake all rivals.

Quote

The first Presidential Decree that Putin signed, on 31 December 1999, was titled "On guarantees for former president of the Russian Federation and members of his family".^[68][69] This ensured that "corruption charges against the outgoing President and his relatives" would not be pursued.^[70] This was most notably targeted at Mabetex bribery case in which Yeltsin's family members were involved. On 30 August 2000, a criminal investigation (number 18/238278-95) was dropped in which Putin himself was one of suspects^[71][72] as a member of the Saint Petersburg city government. On 30 December 2000 yet another case against the prosecutor general was dropped "for lack of evidence", in spite of thousands of documents passed by Swiss prosecution.^[73] On 12 February 2001, Putin signed a similar federal law which replaced the decree of 1999. The case of Putin's alleged corruption in metal exports from 1992 was brought back by Marina Salye, but she was silenced and forced to leave Saint Petersburg.^[74]

 

Smart guy.  Not sure a good role model though.  Russians are still suffering due to their government's actions.  And many are leaving.

 

https://themoscowtimes.com/articles/russia-facing-biggest-brain-drain-in-two-decades-53254

Quote

Forty-two percent of senior managers want to emigrate from Russia, a poll by headhunting company Agentstvo Kontakt revealed Tuesday.

 

[craigt3365]

2 minutes ago, Merzik said:

Per your quote from the LA Times article. Russia was not the aggressor in the Ukraine. The US put $5 billion dollars into fomenting a coup in Ukraine ( George Soros adding millions as well) against the legal government. We have the American ambassador admiiting to this. They bought up media and fed Ukrainians propaganda about "police brutality" and funded armed groups which later overthrew the government. Many were actual neo-nazies. The anti-Russian coup government was even more brutal and corrupt than the old one. You will find a similar story in Georgia. Soros and his chums are even pulling the same crap in the US... funding BLM and fomenting racial conflict and chaos.

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You are aware of the influence Russia had with one of the former PMs in Ukraine?  The mansion he lived in?  The deals he cut?  And where he now resides after being forced out (Russia).

 

Both Russia and the West were trying to influence Ukraine's decisions.  The West, though, didn't invade with their army, Russia did.  I was just in Georgia.  Hard to find anybody who likes Russia.  Same with ethnic Moldovans.

[Morch]

On 11/10/2016 at 7:33 AM, coma said:

Already having a positive effect on global peace and stabilisation. All the warmongers must be hating life at the moment.

 

On 11/10/2016 at 9:17 AM, OMGImInPattaya said:

The first fruits of the upcoming Trump presidency...and end to the unnecessary demonization of Russia and its leader Vladimir Putin. This is one of the sorriest legacies of the Obama-Hillary (egged on by the neo-liberal commentariet in the think-tanks and the press) foreign policy and has brought great harm to people throughout the world. It started years before with NATO's expansion up to Russias border and has contined in subsequent administrations. The putting of relations witb Russia back on a stable even keel alone justifies the people's faith in a Trump presidency.

 

Talk is cheap, and sure, Trump got the "best words".

There was no actual war between the US and Russia, so non was stopped. There was no, and there is no, intention by either side to go into full confrontation mode. Nothing was prevented. There are no ongoing armed conflicts altered by the these words.

 

Some Trump supporters ask to give him a grace period. Perhaps the same could be applied with regard to credit for world peace. Recall that Obama Nobel Prize....yeah.

[Morch]

On 11/10/2016 at 10:19 AM, Linzz said:

 

Unsubstantiated story. Your links quote each other and it is a "perhaps" story from the Guardian. Please help establishing this as fact otherwise it is rumor. Can't imagine they would ever own up to this if true

 

The Guardian's "perhaps" story is a quote from Sergey Markov. Far as I can tell, it wasn't retracted or denied.

[Morch]

On 11/10/2016 at 10:33 AM, Usernames said:

 

The Clintons almost started World War III with the Russians at Pristina. " But General Clark's plan was blocked by General Sir Mike Jackson, K-For's British commander. "I'm not going to start the Third World War for you," he reportedly told General Clark during one heated exchange." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/671495.stm

 

The Clintons are not even mentioned in the linked article. And of course, your quote does touch on Russian confrontational attitude, which does get coverage in the story.

[Usernames]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

The Clintons are not even mentioned in the linked article. And of course, your quote does touch on Russian confrontational attitude, which does get coverage in the story.

 

Wes Clark, the Clintons' appointed commander of Nato and later candidate in the Democratic presidential primary, employing the Clinton interventionist war policy in the Balkans. 

[Morch]

19 hours ago, gabruce said:

I would note that this is OccupyDemocrats - famous for fiction. This isn't even a quote from a news source, just an article they made up all on their own. So absolutely no credibility except as satire.

 

This isn't even a quote from a news source

 

From the link provided:

 

Quote

Sergei Markov, a pro-Kremlin political analyst with tight ties to Putin’s inner circle, gave a remarkably candid interview to The Guardian today in which he suggested that Russia was indeed behind the WikiLeaks hacks after all.

 

 

[Morch]

Just now, Usernames said:

 

Wes Clark, the Clintons' appointed commander of Nato and later candidate in the Democratic presidential primary, employing the Clinton interventionist war policy in the Balkans. 

 

So now its down to purging the US army from Democrats?

[Morch]

19 hours ago, ourmanflint said:

I agree with that. Russia being out in the cold so to speak is not what the world needs, Russia needs to be and should be brought into a closer alliance with Europe especially and the USA for the good of everyone.

 

Perhaps Europe should be consulted before "the good of everyone" is decided?

[Usernames]

Just now, Morch said:

 

So now its down to purging the US army from Democrats?

 

Yes, I believe the US Army should be purged from the Democrats.  The US Army should never have become an auxiliary of the Democrat Party.

[Morch]

On 11/10/2016 at 10:31 AM, OMGImInPattaya said:

So what he they did...it exposed the corruption of the Democratic Party and venality of the Clinton machine and had a part in saving the nation from the grasp of Hillary and her evil cabal. We should all be sending him "Thank You" notes.

 

Wikileaks exposes whatever they choose to expose. Hence there's a bias. Note the absence of Wikileaks on the GOP, Trump or Putin? Most reasonable people would not attribute this lack of information to these being spotless.

 

As with previous instances responses move from denial and deflection to "so what".

Edited November 11, 2016 by Morch

[Morch]

6 minutes ago, Usernames said:

 

Yes, I believe the US Army should be purged from the Democrats.  The US Army should never have become an auxiliary of the Democrat Party.

 

Wanna name Trump's chief military advisor?

[Usernames]

3 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Wanna name Trump's chief military advisor?

 

Which has exactly what to do with this topic, as you continue to try and divert it into off topic matters?