Russia ready to restore relations with US, says Vladimir Putin

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, Usernames said:

 

Which has exactly what to do with this topic, as you continue to try and divert it into off topic matters?

 

I'm not the one who went off tangent bringing up unrelated past incidents. 

The point made was that US armed forces personnel got political opinions, leaning this way or that. Asserting that these come before fulfilling their duties, is not something I'd be hastily claiming just to make a political point. 

[simple1]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I'm not the one who went off tangent bringing up unrelated past incidents. 

The point made was that US armed forces personnel got political opinions, leaning this way or that. Asserting that these come before fulfilling their duties, is not something I'd be hastily claiming just to make a political point. 

 

You're a very patient man

[Usernames]

12 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I'm not the one who went off tangent bringing up unrelated past incidents. 

The point made was that US armed forces personnel got political opinions, leaning this way or that. Asserting that these come before fulfilling their duties, is not something I'd be hastily claiming just to make a political point. 

 

Pointing out the incident where Russian and American relations first began to go bad and where Putin got his first inclination to fight back is not off topic to a thread on Russian-American relations and Putin. Wondering about whether the Pentagon belongs to one party or another or who Trump's chief military advisor is, is diversionary. 

Edited November 11, 2016 by Usernames

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, Usernames said:

 

Pointing out the incident where Russian and American relations first began to go bad and where Putin got his first inclination to fight back is not off topic to a thread on Russian-American relations and Putin. Wondering about whether the Pentagon belongs to one party or another or who Trump's chief military advisor is, is diversionary. 

 

Relations between the US and Russia (or its predecessor, the USSR) were never all that rosy. Doubt your reference could be decidedly be said to be the beginning. The one who alleged that a US general was acting on behalf of a political agenda was you - and I agree that you were trying to divert the topic into further electioneering.

[Merzik]

 

No Julian is not inside the US government ....but he is not getting his emails from Russia.

Julian Assange categorically denied in an John Pilger interview a few days ago that the emails released this year have come from the Russian government.

https://www.rt.com/news/365164-assange-interview-wikileaks-russia/


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[craigt3365]

3 minutes ago, Merzik said:

No Julian is not inside the US government ....but he is not getting his emails from Russia.

Julian Assange categorically denied in an John Pilger interview a few days ago that the emails released this year have come from the Russian government.

https://www.rt.com/news/365164-assange-interview-wikileaks-russia/
 

RT is one of the worst media sites.  Putin also said his troops never invaded Ukraine.  Then admitted they did.  Then denied they were in Eastern Ukraine, then admitted they were only there on personal holidays. LOL 

 

People can say anything.  Assange is a criminal on the run.  Hardly a credible person.

[craigt3365]

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/why-experts-think-russia-hacked-dnc-emails-n616486

 

Quote

Many U.S. officials and cyber security experts in and out of government are convinced that state-sponsored Russian hackers are the ones who stole 20,000 emails from the Democratic National Committee and leaked them to the public just in time to disrupt the Democrats' national convention in Philadelphia.

 

I'd trust these sources before Assange or RT any day...

[Linzz]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

The Guardian's "perhaps" story is a quote from Sergey Markov. Far as I can tell, it wasn't retracted or denied.

 

Hard to know what's going on. I heard today on CNN that the Dems were in contact with Russia during the election. 

[Merzik]

 

Good for you. And I was in Russia in the early 1990's when the USSR bit the dust and married to a Russian for 7 years. A few points:

1) Even the NYT admitts Putin is extremely popular in Russia whether we like him or not (much of his opposition comes from his political right as well) His popularity is largely due to his curtailment of the mafia oligharchs who ruled Russia under Yeltsin in the 1990's. Human rights are indeed violated in Russia. They do not have much of a democratic past. Yet we have allies which are far worse.

2) Putin's foreign policy views are often more popular in Western Europe than those of Obama's. One poll in the UK Express revealed 71% of Brits favored Putin's ME policy over that of the West. The former head of the UK military in the 90's agrees.

3) Understandable that people in Eastern Europe are suspicious or even hostile of Russia given the Soviet history. If Russian tanks roll into Eastern Europe Trump will oppose him. With my support. Of course this is not going to happen.

4) No surprise some people are leaving Russia for better opportunities. Russia is under scantions and struggling to rebuild their country after a long disasterous past under the Soviets and the oligharchs in the 90's. There is a brain drain in PC France as well...where the socialist president has a 4% approval rating.


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[Morch]

2 minutes ago, Linzz said:

 

Hard to know what's going on. I heard today on CNN that the Dems were in contact with Russia during the election. 

 

This deflection was addressed on a previous post. The quote referred to these contacts as "sporadic". The thing with Trump is that his campaign denied such connections. Of course, it could all be the Russians messing around with the US post-elections...

 

 

[Usernames]

3 minutes ago, Merzik said:

 

Good for you. And I was in Russia in the early 1990's when the USSR bit the dust and married to a Russian for 7 years. A few points:

1) Even the NYT admitts Putin is extremely popular in Russia whether we like him or not (much of his opposition comes from his political right as well) His popularity is largely due to his curtailment of the mafia oligharchs who ruled Russia under Yeltsin in the 1990's. Human rights are indeed violated in Russia. They do not have much of a democratic past. Yet we have allies which are far worse.

2) Putin's foreign policy views are often more popular in Western Europe than those of Obama's. One poll in the UK Express revealed 71% of Brits favored Putin's ME policy over that of the West. The former head of the UK military in the 90's agrees.

3) Understandable that people in Eastern Europe are suspicious or even hostile of Russia given the Soviet history. If Russian tanks roll into Eastern Europe Trump will oppose him. With my support. Of course this is not going to happen.

4) No surprise some people are leaving Russia for better opportunities. Russia is under scantions and struggling to rebuild their country after a long disasterous past under the Soviets and the oligharchs in the 90's. There is a brain drain in PC France as well...where the socialist president has a 4% approval rating.


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Good and accurate points all.

[coma]

 

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

Recall that Obama Nobel Prize....yeah.

 

Bit of gibberish there so I deleted the rest. I hope you don't mind.

 

Now on this last point. If Obama got a Nobel Peace Prize then Mr Trump has got to be a special to get one too.

Edited November 11, 2016 by coma

[Merzik]

 

Relations between the US and Russia (or its predecessor, the USSR) were never all that rosy. Doubt your reference could be decidedly be said to be the beginning. The one who alleged that a US general was acting on behalf of a political agenda was you - and I agree that you were trying to divert the topic into further electioneering.

In the 1990's under Yeltsin (when the Clintons were in power) they were very rosy. Russia was ruled by a few criminal mafia oligharchs with Western ties. Russian assets were stolen in a corrupt fire-sale with much of their cash ending up in New York, London and Israeli banks . Russian GDP fell 40% as Russia went from one tyranny to another. Most Russians lived in dire conditions. I saw it myself. Putin put an end to the party. This is why he is so hated by Clinton and those behind her. They want a return to the good old days of Yeltsin when Russia was plundered.

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[Merzik]

RT is one of the worst media sites.  Putin also said his troops never invaded Ukraine.  Then admitted they did.  Then denied they were in Eastern Ukraine, then admitted they were only there on personal holidays. LOL 

 

People can say anything.  Assange is a criminal on the run.  Hardly a credible person.

Who cares if you do not believe RT? It is the words of Julian Assange which matter. You can see the interview and hear what he said. He said Russia did not give him the emails.

Assange is not a criminal. He is a whistleblower and has made enormous personal sacrifices to get the truth out. Most of the world sees him as a hero.

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[craigt3365]

11 minutes ago, Merzik said:

 

Good for you. And I was in Russia in the early 1990's when the USSR bit the dust and married to a Russian for 7 years. A few points:

1) Even the NYT admitts Putin is extremely popular in Russia whether we like him or not (much of his opposition comes from his political right as well) His popularity is largely due to his curtailment of the mafia oligharchs who ruled Russia under Yeltsin in the 1990's. Human rights are indeed violated in Russia. They do not have much of a democratic past. Yet we have allies which are far worse.

2) Putin's foreign policy views are often more popular in Western Europe than those of Obama's. One poll in the UK Express revealed 71% of Brits favored Putin's ME policy over that of the West. The former head of the UK military in the 90's agrees.

3) Understandable that people in Eastern Europe are suspicious or even hostile of Russia given the Soviet history. If Russian tanks roll into Eastern Europe Trump will oppose him. With my support. Of course this is not going to happen.

4) No surprise some people are leaving Russia for better opportunities. Russia is under scantions and struggling to rebuild their country after a long disasterous past under the Soviets and the oligharchs in the 90's. There is a brain drain in PC France as well...where the socialist president has a 4% approval rating.


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Putin is popular because of his propaganda.  Portraying the West as the bad guy, thumping his chest on TV, and taking back (illegally) Ukraine.  He's buddy buddy with the oligarchs.  They've gotten rich along with him.  The population doesn't like this, but can't protest.  As you well know.  Any opposition to Putin disappears.  Rather dramatically.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_oligarch#Oligarchs_during_Putin.27s_presidency

 

Quote

 

Between 2000 and 2004, Putin apparently engaged in a power-struggle with some oligarchs, reaching a "grand bargain" with them. This bargain allowed the oligarchs to maintain their powers, in exchange for their explicit support of – and alignment with – Putin's government.^[9][10]

 

Many more business people have become oligarchs during Putin's time in power, and often due to personal relations with Putin, such as the rector of the institute where Putin obtained a degree in 1996, Vladimir Litvinenko,^[11] and Putin's childhood judo-teacher Arkady Rotenberg.^[12] However, other analysts^[which?] argue that the oligarchic structure has remained intact under Putin, with Putin devoting much of his time to mediating power-disputes between rival oligarchs.^[1]

 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/03/panama-papers-money-hidden-offshore

 

Quote

Revealed: the $2bn offshore trail that leads to Vladimir Putin

 

Russia could avoid the sanctions by exiting Ukraine.  Simple.  We know that's not simple for Putin.  He'd lose face.  Russia is also in big trouble due to the price drop in the energy markets.  Just like many other countries.

[gk10002000]

I wasn't aware that relations had stopped.

[Morch]

13 minutes ago, Merzik said:

In the 1990's under Yeltsin (when the Clintons were in power) they were very rosy. Russia was ruled by a few criminal mafia oligharchs with Western ties. Russian assets were stolen in a corrupt fire-sale with much of their cash ending up in New York, London and Israeli banks . Russian GDP fell 40% as Russia went from one tyranny to another. Most Russians lived in dire conditions. I saw it myself. Putin put an end to the party. This is why he is so hated by Clinton and those behind her. They want a return to the good old days of Yeltsin when Russia was plundered.

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That does sounds like an RT report.

[Morch]

12 minutes ago, Merzik said:

Who cares if you do not believe RT? It is the words of Julian Assange which matter. You can see the interview and hear what he said. He said Russia did not give him the emails.

Assange is not a criminal. He is a whistleblower and has made enormous personal sacrifices to get the truth out. Most of the world sees him as a hero.

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And is Assange says so it must be true?

[Merzik]

 
That does sounds like an RT report.

No. I saw much of it myself in Moscow. You can even find much of this sordid history in the Guardian and other Western media:

https://off-guardian.org/2016/08/19/the-real-boris-yeltsin-democratic-reformer-or-brutal-dictator/


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[seedy]

Bickering posts Removed

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, Merzik said:

 

No. I saw much of it myself in Moscow. You can even find much of this sordid history in the Guardian and other Western media:

https://off-guardian.org/2016/08/19/the-real-boris-yeltsin-democratic-reformer-or-brutal-dictator/


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I don't argue that there were bad times, or that there were oligarchs etc. My doubts are more with your assertions regarding the Clintons supposed involvement, or of Putin's heroic and selfless struggles. These parts are classic RT style.

[Usernames]

1 hour ago, Merzik said:

 

 

Let's hope that Obama and the other people threatening war with Russia do not create some event between now and Trump's inauguration that starts an armed conflict b/w Russia and the US. 

[craigt3365]

2 minutes ago, Usernames said:

 

Let's hope that Obama and the other people threatening war with Russia do not create some event between now and Trump's inauguration that starts an armed conflict b/w Russia and the US. 

Or let's hope Russia doesn't invade another country or continue to bomb innocent civilians in Syria?  Both are making things tough with Russia versus the US and Europe.

[Usernames]

Just now, craigt3365 said:

Or let's hope Russia doesn't invade another country or continue to bomb innocent civilians in Syria?  Both are making things tough with Russia versus the US and Europe.

 

Sorry, Craig, I am unwilling to engage in a nuclear war with Russia over Riga, the Crimea, or even Ukraine.  Nor am I willing to go to war with Russia over Syria. Frankly, the Obama-HRC policy towards North AFrica and the ME since the Arab Spring has been catastrophic.  There is no way the Russians can do worse. It will take Russia bombing for the next decade or more to match the body count in Libya, Iraq, Yemen, Egypt (not to mention Afghanistan) that Obama Clinton (and the other member of the Uniparty, GW Bush) loosed on the world.

[craigt3365]

4 minutes ago, Usernames said:

 

Sorry, Craig, I am unwilling to engage in a nuclear war with Russia over Riga, the Crimea, or even Ukraine.  Nor am I willing to go to war with Russia over Syria. Frankly, the Obama-HRC policy towards North AFrica and the ME since the Arab Spring has been catastrophic.  There is no way the Russians can do worse. It will take Russia bombing for the next decade or more to match the body count in Libya, Iraq, Yemen, Egypt (not to mention Afghanistan) that Obama Clinton (and the other member of the Uniparty, GW Bush) loosed on the world.

No arguments with you about Syria or Ukraine, but can't agree with Riga.  That's a direct strike against the EU and NATO.  Can't be allowed.  Luckily, Putin knows this and would never do it.

 

Trying to justify Russian bombing and comparing it to what's happened in other countries in the ME is terrible.  They are all bad and all should be stopped.  Sadly, the problems aren't all created by Obama and HRC.  That's an inappropriate statement.  These countries had a huge say in how things happened.  This is closer to the truth as to the problems in the ME.  Blame lies with many different parties.

 

http://www.vox.com/2015/12/3/9837782/isis-one-sentence

 

 

[NumbNut]

18 minutes ago, Usernames said:

 

Sorry, Craig, I am unwilling to engage in a nuclear war with Russia over Riga, the Crimea, or even Ukraine.  Nor am I willing to go to war with Russia over Syria. Frankly, the Obama-HRC policy towards North AFrica and the ME since the Arab Spring has been catastrophic.  There is no way the Russians can do worse. It will take Russia bombing for the next decade or more to match the body count in Libya, Iraq, Yemen, Egypt (not to mention Afghanistan) that Obama Clinton (and the other member of the Uniparty, GW Bush) loosed on the world.

 

The question we should all be asking ourselves regarding recent Russian history (and China too for that matter in the South China Sea) is where does it end?

 

Putting to one side the possibility of any escalation into nuclear warfare, your attitude is not too far off the UK and France during March 1938 at Munich, when they gave away Czechoslovakia to an increasing aggressive Hitler. First the Anschluss of Austria, then the Sudetenland (Ethnic German area in Czechoslovakia), then the WHOLE of Czechoslovakia, and then finally, Poland in September 1939.

 

Belatedly the French and British both realised there was no reasoning with a megalomaniac and declared war on Nazi Germany, kicking off WWII in Western Europe.

 

If the start of WWII in Europe has taught us anything, it is that appeasement does not work with dictators. It can at best only be a delaying tactic. Sooner or later you are going to have to deal with the megalomaniac. 

[craigt3365]

Very interesting comparison!

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Usernames said:

 

Let's hope that Obama and the other people threatening war with Russia do not create some event between now and Trump's inauguration that starts an armed conflict b/w Russia and the US. 

 

When did Obama threat war with Russia? Who are the "other people"? And making a personal mental bet - guess that if "some event" happens after Trump's inauguration, it would still be blamed on "other people".

 

No one on either side, excepts perhaps for some loons, wants a head on confrontation between the US and Russia. The last 70 years were pretty much all about avoiding such an eventuality.

[Usernames]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

When did Obama threat war with Russia? Who are the "other people"? And making a personal mental bet - guess that if "some event" happens after Trump's inauguration, it would still be blamed on "other people".

 

No one on either side, excepts perhaps for some loons, wants a head on confrontation between the US and Russia. The last 70 years were pretty much all about avoiding such an eventuality.

 

Tell it to the Neocons

[Morch]

23 minutes ago, Usernames said:

 

Tell it to the Neocons

 

Deflection. Not even a very good or subtle one.

Guess no point in expecting a direct answer as to when Obama threat war with Russia.