Immigration Tightening Up?

[pjthefey]

Today my girlfriend and I went to extend our tourist visas (issued in Hong Kong) at the Samut Prakan immigration office, and were issued an informal warning that "Soon you will not be able to come back to Thailand."    I'm from the USA, and she's from Laos.    I have 2 tourist visas, and two visa exempt entries all of which have been extended.   Her passport is filled with a mix of tourist visas and exempt entry stamps going back two years. 

 

I found this odd because they've never said anything before.   Also, usually the paperwork is a breeze.  Show the housing documents  get the receipt, show the cashier, and get the stamp.   This time, they went through every document with a fine toothed comb, and wouldn't let us extend our stay unless the condo owner came to the immigration office to sign paperwork and pay a fine for not reporting us in her condo within 24 hours of arriving in Thailand.      I know this has been the official rule forever,  but they've never asked for her to come sign documents or pay a fine in 2 years. 

 

I've also heard people saying that they've been given warnings both at BKK airport and the Poi Pet border crossing.   I'm hoping to gather more data about people's recent experiences in this thread. 

Edited November 15, 2016 by pjthefey

[ubonjoe]

I would not consider what an officer at an immigration office tells you as definitive. Most are not that familiar with the rules for entering the country.

The TM30 form requirement is happening at many offices. Insisting the owner has to do it is odd and appears to be only a Samut Prakan requirement.

People entering on visa exempt entries are subject to greater scrutiny. With a valid visa it seldom happens.

[jgold]

It is just not possible to live in Thailand anymore on tourist visas. Doing many visa extensions raises a flag w immigration. I rather do a visa run than an extension. I ran out of luck after 4.5 yrs. I had an ed visa w a re-entry permit and only got let in after I paid off the supervisor at suvarnabumi. I am now taking a 6 month break and will only live there again on a elite visa.

It is just humiliating being taken aside at the airport immigration. This 3rd world country all of a sudden thinks of itself being the likes of US or UK.

Have a back up plan!! In Vietnam americans get a 1yr multiple entry for under 150 bucks. Not as good as Thailand but if you want to stay in the area it is a good option. Good luck!

 

One last advice is to stay away from the poipet border!! there are many posts here and everyone says it is to be avoided. Go to the borders w Laos.

[SaintLouisBlues]

5 minutes ago, jgold said:

This 3rd world country all of a sudden thinks of itself being the likes of US or UK.

Outrageous! Who do they think they are? A sovereign nation?!

[sanemax]

4 hours ago, pjthefey said:

"Soon you will not be able to come back to Thailand."

 

  Numerous people seem to be stating that .

It seems like theres another clampdown on the way

All of us long term stayers on tourist visas should be prepared to "emigrate"

 

[ThailandLOS]

32 minutes ago, jgold said:

It is just humiliating being taken aside at the airport immigration. This 3rd world country all of a sudden thinks of itself being the likes of US or UK.

 

So "this 3rd world country" is not entitled to set up its own conditions on who to allow in the country you mean? Is this is a privilege reserved for "the likes of US and UK".

 

You're in the wrong place with that attitude dude.

[PocoLoco]

Thailand needs to come up with a solution for a very large percentage of longstayers or it's going to seriously miss a lot of income. I believe the amount of money these guys spend in total and networks they support is hugely understimated. I know of several guys in BKK who don't work in Thailand but plash cash like crazy and stay on tourist visa's, not everyone wants to buy an elite visa. Some are planning to move to another country because never being sure about what's going to happen next.

 

Under 50, not married, not working? You're screwed.
And still, if you meet one of these requirements you still have to report every 3 months (?) and expect immigration police to pop up any time for questioning.
They can't do without us, but at the same time foreigners are treated like criminals. Thailand make up your mind.
 

I'm wondering how elita visa holders are treated at immigration. What if an elite visa holder travels international every two months or so and spends around 200 days in Thailand. Do they get grilled as well? Or are they immune to immigration questioning? Priviliges can be bought in Thailand....
 

Edited November 15, 2016 by PocoLoco

[thai3]

Samut Prakan, where they need 5 photocopies of passport pages just to do a 90 day report and where I was told in 2008 that they 'did not really do' visa extensions there, tightening up for some time i think!

[mstevens]

13 minutes ago, PocoLoco said:

They can't do without us, but at the same time foreigners are treated like criminals. Thailand make up your mind.
 

 

Thailand can't do without foreigners living in the country on back to back tourist visas who in many cases are working illegally and not paying their dues?  Thailand is quite right to prevent such people from circumventing the system to remain.  Buy an Elite card if you want to live in Thailand year round.  There is an option.

[PocoLoco]

Nobody i know of works illegally in Thailand. There are a loooot of young guys with an (online) business in Farangistan living here on tourist visa's. They have no other choice, except buying an elite visa but that's no guarantee you'll be free of problems because of ever tightening laws.

They need to come up with another solution to clamp down on those working here illegally. Most are English teachers, hold the employers / schools responsible??? Just like they do in the West.

There are some youtube-idiots working as "health consultants" in Thailand but those are easily identified. Dirty looking vegan hippies.

I don't know of any other profession farangs do illegally in Thailand? I think the percentage of farangs working illegally (besides teaching) is very very small.

 

 

 

[NoshowJones]

27 minutes ago, PocoLoco said:

Thailand needs to come up with a solution for a very large percentage of longstayers or it's going to seriously miss a lot of income. I believe the amount of money these guys spend in total and networks they support is hugely understimated. I know of several guys in BKK who don't work in Thailand but plash cash like crazy and stay on tourist visa's, not everyone wants to buy an elite visa. Some are planning to move to another country because never being sure about what's going to happen next.

 

Under 50, not married, not working? You're screwed.
And still, if you meet one of these requirements you still have to report every 3 months (?) and expect immigration police to pop up any time for questioning.
They can't do without us, but at the same time foreigners are treated like criminals. Thailand make up your mind.
 

I'm wondering how elita visa holders are treated at immigration. What if an elite visa holder travels international every two months or so and spends around 200 days in Thailand. Do they get grilled as well? Or are they immune to immigration questioning? Priviliges can be bought in Thailand....
 

Excellent post, you have just said what I have said a good few times in my posts over the last few months.

[PocoLoco]

Also the definition of working illegally needs to be refined.

Authorities are not clear about the situation; business abroad and paying tax in homecountry, but managing it online from Thailand on tourist visa's. That's the real problem, reports from authorities have been contradictory.

Believe me, these guys pour quite a lot of money in the economy and needs a solution. With the increasing tightening this group is going to slowly base into other countries like Vietnam (already happening).

 

Edited November 15, 2016 by PocoLoco

[NoshowJones]

16 minutes ago, thai3 said:

Samut Prakan, where they need 5 photocopies of passport pages just to do a 90 day report and where I was told in 2008 that they 'did not really do' visa extensions there, tightening up for some time i think!

No, I think it is just that when some boss takes over, he starts making up his own rules, if you have read posts in Thaivisa much, you will know that all the IOs make up there own rules, the same with banks, amphurs, schools etc. This is Thailand.

[LPCustom69]

35 minutes ago, PocoLoco said:

Thailand needs to come up with a solution for a very large percentage of longstayers or it's going to seriously miss a lot of income. I believe the amount of money these guys spend in total and networks they support is hugely understimated. I know of several guys in BKK who don't work in Thailand but plash cash like crazy and stay on tourist visa's, not everyone wants to buy an elite visa. Some are planning to move to another country because never being sure about what's going to happen next.

 

Under 50, not married, not working? You're screwed.
And still, if you meet one of these requirements you still have to report every 3 months (?) and expect immigration police to pop up any time for questioning.
They can't do without us, but at the same time foreigners are treated like criminals. Thailand make up your mind.
 

I'm wondering how elita visa holders are treated at immigration. What if an elite visa holder travels international every two months or so and spends around 200 days in Thailand. Do they get grilled as well? Or are they immune to immigration questioning? Priviliges can be bought in Thailand....
 

They don't care. Not wanted here!

[ubonjoe]

A off topic post has been removed. 

[jspill]

I've had 7 visa exemptions in a row and just got a tourist visa, and before all that had 2 year overstay, the stamp still in my passport. 

 

Maybe I've been getting lucky 

 

 

[robblok]

58 minutes ago, PocoLoco said:

Thailand needs to come up with a solution for a very large percentage of longstayers or it's going to seriously miss a lot of income. I believe the amount of money these guys spend in total and networks they support is hugely understimated. I know of several guys in BKK who don't work in Thailand but plash cash like crazy and stay on tourist visa's, not everyone wants to buy an elite visa. Some are planning to move to another country because never being sure about what's going to happen next.

Under 50, not married, not working? You're screwed.
And still, if you meet one of these requirements you still have to report every 3 months (?) and expect immigration police to pop up any time for questioning.
They can't do without us, but at the same time foreigners are treated like criminals. Thailand make up your mind.
 

I'm wondering how elita visa holders are treated at immigration. What if an elite visa holder travels international every two months or so and spends around 200 days in Thailand. Do they get grilled as well?

Or are they immune to immigration questioning? Priviliges can be bought in Thailand....

 

We are treated better (and pay for it seems normal to me). If you pay the price you get treated better. I was on a non o based on marriage and I had to jump through far more hoops. My last elite extension was easy far easier as marriage visa ever was.  

 

After my divorce i figured staying on tourist visa's was just not viable and still to young to be accepted for retirement visa so that leaves elite visa. If I was treated like any normal tourist or whatever I would not have paid for the pleasure. 

 

So its only normal we get better treatment otherwise none of us would pay the price for it. 

[impulse]

36 minutes ago, PocoLoco said:

Believe me, these guys pour quite a lot of money in the economy and needs a solution. With the increasing tightening this group is going to slowly base into other countries like Vietnam (already happening).

 

While I'm sure some of them are pouring a lot of money into the economy, for every high roller there are probably a dozen others who barely scrape by counting their pennies.  There are already several valid visa choices for the high rollers.  Not so many valid options for the scrapers since the long term options either cost money or require a significant (but certainly not punitive) investment in the host country.  Sadly, a lot of the guys who like to think they're high rollers, aren't.  $250-300 a month for a 5 year Elite Visa is chump change to the type of long stay expats they want to attract and keep.  

 

The economy won't even feel the loss of the others.  That doesn't mean they're not good people.  But not all good people can afford to stay at the Ritz, either.  Myself included.

Edited November 15, 2016 by impulse

[PocoLoco]

That's interesting Rob. Perhaps the crackdowns are intended to move a certain group to buy an elite visa? Financial intentions all along? Much like a bribe, i pay you but don't bother me any longer.

It's still intended for tourism only, so the same rules should apply. Like i said, priviliges can be bought in Thailand.

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, PocoLoco said:

That's interesting Rob. Perhaps the crackdowns are intended to move a certain group to buy an elite visa? Financial intentions all along? Much like a bribe, i pay you but don't bother me any longer.

It's still intended for tourism only, so the same rules should apply. Like i said, priviliges can be bought in Thailand.

Who knows.. but it certainly moved me to elite visa. But face it people paying the price for elite visa's are usually not the kind working in Thailand its too expensive for that. People on elite usually have a bit more money and that is the kind they want. Not the people who think they can get it all for free. Its a mindset i can understand. I don't like paying.. but at least it helps me with the hassle. You are far more safe once you got a visa like that. I just did not feel good trying my luck on tourist visa's. Retirement.. / marriage / elite.. those are visa's that are somewhat safer.

[JLCrab]

49 minutes ago, PocoLoco said:

<snip>.

They need to come up with another solution to clamp down on those working here illegally.

<snip2>

The Thai Misnistry of Information and Communications Technology has as part of its Mission statement:

4 Promote and support the development of personnel performing work concerned with information and communication technology and personnel of all sectors and divisions to be able to use information and communication technology efficiently.

http://www.mict.go.th/view/10/About Us

 

They want skilled IT foreigners who reside in Thailand to help provide jobs and training for Thai personnel. It seems that they do not want to, or have not as yet, set up procedures to encourage lone wolf foreigners to work out of Thailand in a manner that does not directly benefit the above mission statement.

[seancbk]

1 hour ago, jgold said:

It is just not possible to live in Thailand anymore on tourist visas. Doing many visa extensions raises a flag w immigration. I rather do a visa run than an extension. I ran out of luck after 4.5 yrs. I had an ed visa w a re-entry permit and only got let in after I paid off the supervisor at suvarnabumi. I am now taking a 6 month break and will only live there again on a elite visa.

It is just humiliating being taken aside at the airport immigration. This 3rd world country all of a sudden thinks of itself being the likes of US or UK.

Have a back up plan!! In Vietnam americans get a 1yr multiple entry for under 150 bucks. Not as good as Thailand but if you want to stay in the area it is a good option. Good luck!

 

One last advice is to stay away from the poipet border!! there are many posts here and everyone says it is to be avoided. Go to the borders w Laos.

 

Saying "it is just not possible to live in Thailand anymore on tourist visas"  is nonsense.    

Thai immigration law places no restriction on how many tourist visas you can have or how long you can stay in Thailand with tourist visas.   All you have to be able to do is show you are not working here.

 

[Grubster]

I don't have a problem with immigration but it sounds like many people do and that could really hurt tourism I would think.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, jgold said:

It is just not possible to live in Thailand anymore on tourist visas. Doing many visa extensions raises a flag w immigration. I rather do a visa run than an extension. I ran out of luck after 4.5 yrs. I had an ed visa w a re-entry permit and only got let in after I paid off the supervisor at suvarnabumi. ..

 

You are not the first person who had trouble using a re-entry on an Ed-visa.  Not recommended.  And no, you cannot live here long-term and use Visa Exempts any more.  But yes, you can still live here most of the time on Tourist Visas if you avoid Poipet (you mentioned), and other pitfalls.

 

52 minutes ago, mstevens said:

 

Thailand can't do without foreigners living in the country on back to back tourist visas who in many cases are working illegally and not paying their dues?  Thailand is quite right to prevent such people from circumventing the system to remain.  Buy an Elite card if you want to live in Thailand year round.  There is an option.

 

Who said anything about those working illegally?  Easy enough to go around to the schools and find the illegal-workers, leaving the other 99% of us alone.  I don't think they want to find them - it's just an excuse - like "insufficient funds" for Visa Exempt rejections when the person rejected had the funds in-hand.  They make stuff up.  Nothing should be taken at face-value.

 

As to the Elite, I'd rather have a nice Fully Paid Year Of Life to enjoy in Cambodia or Vietnam than hand over the same sum of Cash, up front, to the Elite rip-off.  Why would Thailand let those countries get the next 20-30 years of my annual income spent there instead of here?  Granted, I am not a 'big spender' - but it does add up with thousands of people's income flowing in over decades.

 

2 minutes ago, impulse said:

While I'm sure some of them are pouring a lot of money into the economy, for every high roller there are probably a dozen others who barely scrape by counting their pennies.  ...  $250-300 a month for a 5 year Elite Visa is chump change to the type of long stay expats they want to attract and keep.  

 

High Rollers can live in Switzerland.  This is Thailand.  Most people stay/retire here because it is affordable and has a fair level of development.  Take away the "affordable" part, and the "reasons to stay" list just lost its primary selling-point. 

 

To High Rollers, the Elite is cheap - but it is not $X/mo - it is All Up Front - over a year of living expenses in a nice condo overlooking the beach and eating out while helping support a girlfriend and her family.   If it were payable monthly, it would still add 25% to the cost of living well here - which is insane.  They could have made a fortune with a visa priced to the market and used that money to better the country.  Instead, some connected-group created a scheme to line a few corrupt pockets. 

 

I would not buy the Elite out of principle, even if I were rich.  Think of who it is helping - people who used a scheme to deny the people of Thailand a better future with a good scheme, and are probably behind the efforts to do more damage by pushing out people like me, in-turn harming countless Thai lives and families.

 

Each of those "scraping by" are supporting maybe 5 Thais each with their income.  Is Thailand running out of rooms for rent?  Food to sell?  Where's the problem with those scraping by sticking around and spending?  Who gets hurt?  

[jspill]

7 minutes ago, seancbk said:

 

Saying "it is just not possible to live in Thailand anymore on tourist visas"  is nonsense.    

Thai immigration law places no restriction on how many tourist visas you can have or how long you can stay in Thailand with tourist visas.   All you have to be able to do is show you are not working here.

 

Yeah seriously there are thousands of people staying here on tourist visas who've never even heard of Thaivisa and wouldn't know what all the fuss is about. 

 

If you get a warning at a given consulate just go to Laos / Penang and use an agent, pretty easy. Have an onward ticket ready to show at airports, it's cheaper booking flights in advance anyway. 

[BritTim]

10 minutes ago, seancbk said:

Saying "it is just not possible to live in Thailand anymore on tourist visas"  is nonsense.    

Thai immigration law places no restriction on how many tourist visas you can have or how long you can stay in Thailand with tourist visas.   All you have to be able to do is show you are not working here.

 

 

That is a dangerous assumption. You could say the same about visa exempt entries . People did before the 2014 crackdown. One ministerial announcement changes the law in practice if not in theory.

[Thaidream]

The Thai authorities do not care if every person living in Thailand on tourist or exempt entries left and never came back. Their opinion is that these people are working illegally in the country and not paying taxes. There are many in this category and the authorities are going to continue to harass people entering at all borders as well as applying for extensions. They feel that they can either force the people into elite Visa categories or they will simply leave. In total number, the Thais believe they can replace all this lost income by getting more Chinese or Indian tourists.  If I was in this category, I would never stay in Thailand. There are so many other choices for people -why put up with it.

[seancbk]

1 minute ago, jspill said:

 

Yeah seriously there are thousands of people staying here on tourist visas who've never even heard of Thaivisa and wouldn't know what all the fuss is about. 

 

If you get a warning at a given consulate just go to Laos / Penang and use an agent, pretty easy. Have an onward ticket ready to show at airports, it's cheaper booking flights in advance anyway. 

This morning I picked up my passport at the Thai consulate in Hong Kong.   Another single entry tourist visa.

8 years living in Thailand so far and not asked anything ever by a consulate or immigration.

I do sometimes worry a bit based on the stories one reads on here, but just in case I carry sufficient cash and copies of my bank statements that show I transfer plenty of cash from overseas into Thailand each month to be able to live without working.

What I rarely have is a flight out as I book return flights from Bangkok to HK and back.... a flight out would be a third leg.   This time I think I'll book the outbound flight as well.

For my next visa I plan to either apply for the Multi Entry Tourist Visa in Hong Kong, I'm a HK permanent resident and can meet the requirements so should not be an issue, or a Non B as I am setting up a Thai company.

[JackThompson]

5 minutes ago, BritTim said:

That is a dangerous assumption. You could say the same about visa exempt entries . People did before the 2014 crackdown. One ministerial announcement changes the law in practice if not in theory.

 

This is a Good and valid point, as much as I try not to think about it. 

 

Anyone here, or considering moving here, with plans to stay on Tourist Visas, should be aware that this method of stay could end as you describe.  It will be a very sad day for many Farangs, and many more Thais, if that should come to pass.  I have under 2 years to go to 50.  Crossing my fingers I make it.

[JackThompson]

6 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The Thai authorities do not care if every person living in Thailand on tourist or exempt entries left and never came back....  If I was in this category, I would never stay in Thailand. There are so many other choices for people -why put up with it.

 

Answer:  Personal connections and Thai Culture.  If I am forced out, I know I will miss both very much.