Immigration Tightening Up?

[seancbk]

8 minutes ago, BritTim said:

20 minutes ago, seancbk said:

Saying "it is just not possible to live in Thailand anymore on tourist visas"  is nonsense.    

Thai immigration law places no restriction on how many tourist visas you can have or how long you can stay in Thailand with tourist visas.   All you have to be able to do is show you are not working here.

 

 

That is a dangerous assumption. You could say the same about visa exempt entries . People did before the 2014 crackdown. One ministerial announcement changes the law in practice if not in theory.

Still until that happens it is still possible to live here on Tourist visas.   So long as you are not working and can show you don't need to.

At the Thai consulate in Hong Kong yesterday the woman on the counter suggested I just use visa exempt entries as I said I was only going to be in Bangkok for a few weeks this time, I said to the woman that I wanted a proper visa because immigration are not keen on visa exempts so she wrote 60 days on my form and they issued me the visa.

 

[Happy Grumpy]

You both don't sound like tourists.

 

Move to Laos. Come here for real tourism. Problem solved. :)

[impulse]

54 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

If it were payable monthly, it would still add 25% to the cost of living well here - which is insane.  They could have made a fortune with a visa priced to the market and used that money to better the country.  Instead, some connected-group created a scheme to line a few corrupt pockets. 

....

Each of those "scraping by" are supporting maybe 5 Thais each with their income.  Is Thailand running out of rooms for rent?  Food to sell?  Where's the problem with those scraping by sticking around and spending?  Who gets hurt?  

 

You seem to have shot your own case by claiming they'd be supporting 5 Thais when $250 a month would add 25% to such a person's budget.

 

Thailand can either stay in the rut of low budget mass hedonism and sex tourism, or they can do something (anything, please) to get out of that slimepit.  Working off mass numbers of low budget tourists is absolutely devastating the resource.  They'd be better off having 1/3 the numbers, and offering less crowded beaches that aren't running sewers.  At least they'd have something worth visiting in 20 years.  As it's headed, they're eating their metaphorical children.

 

Certainly, clamping down will hurt some good people.  All sea changes do.  But it may work out well in the long term for the Thais.  I hope so.  I'm not optimistic, but I'm glad to see them trying something to preserve what they have.

Edited November 15, 2016 by impulse

[ThaiFelix]

2 hours ago, ThailandLOS said:

 

So "this 3rd world country" is not entitled to set up its own conditions on who to allow in the country you mean? Is this is a privilege reserved for "the likes of US and UK".

 

You're in the wrong place with that attitude dude.

Reminds me of a few years ago I was in the Thai consulate in Perth waiting to get a visa.  The girl in front of me was really spitting the dummy at the ever so helpful lady in attendance behind the counter saying "No, its you who doesnt seem to understand, all I want is a visa that allows me to enter and  travel around Thailand plus allows me to work IF at some point I decide I want to get a job, now why is this so damn difficult??!!!"

[tlock]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

 

We are treated better (and pay for it seems normal to me). If you pay the price you get treated better. I was on a non o based on marriage and I had to jump through far more hoops. My last elite extension was easy far easier as marriage visa ever was.  

 

After my divorce i figured staying on tourist visa's was just not viable and still to young to be accepted for retirement visa so that leaves elite visa. If I was treated like any normal tourist or whatever I would not have paid for the pleasure. 

 

So its only normal we get better treatment otherwise none of us would pay the price for it. 

 

howdy- did you need to do the elite extension yourself?  are you outside of bkk or pattaya?  i'm about to switch from marriage to elite because i'm hoping to never need to set foot in jomtien again.  

 

 

[jpinx]

20 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

Reminds me of a few years ago I was in the Thai consulate in Perth waiting to get a visa.  The girl in front of me was really spitting the dummy at the ever so helpful lady in attendance behind the counter saying "No, its you who doesnt seem to understand, all I want is a visa that allows me to enter and  travel around Thailand plus allows me to work IF at some point I decide I want to get a job, now why is this so damn difficult??!!!"

So many times people lose their case because of their attitude.......

[robblok]

28 minutes ago, tlock said:

 

howdy- did you need to do the elite extension yourself?  are you outside of bkk or pattaya?  i'm about to switch from marriage to elite because i'm hoping to never need to set foot in jomtien again.  

 

 

I am in the outskirts of bkk.. but got a letter from the company that represents elite.. that was all i had to bring. But switching from marriage to elite was a bit tricky.. had to leave the country (to cancel the marriage one)

[JackThompson]

53 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

You seem to have shot your own case by claiming they'd be supporting 5 Thais when $250 a month would add 25% to such a person's budget.

 

Thailand can either stay in the rut of low budget mass hedonism and sex tourism, or they can do something (anything, please) to get out of that slimepit.  Working off mass numbers of low budget tourists is absolutely devastating the resource.  They'd be better off having 1/3 the numbers, and offering less crowded beaches that aren't running sewers.  At least they'd have something worth visiting in 20 years.  As it's headed, they're eating their metaphorical children.

 

Certainly, clamping down will hurt some good people.  All sea changes do.  But it may work out well in the long term for the Thais.  I hope so.  I'm not optimistic, but I'm glad to see them trying something to preserve what they have.

 

The range was $300 - so $1200/mo spent.  Yes, 5 Thais could easily loose their jobs for each $1000 less spent in a community. 

 

As often misunderstood, the 'hedonism' was here before the foreigners; most customers of such services are Thai.  Sounds like you might prefer living in Laos.  

If you want lower numbers / less crowded, then you don't want the Chinese coming - better contact TAT.  The average Chinese tourist spends very little here per-person, so they are counting on packing those beaches - standing room only.  As far as "running sewers" - not sure what beaches, but reducing Western-sourced income won't help fund the cleanup.

 

As far as 'preserving what they have' - at which point in time shall we mark the "good old days"?  If cultural-overload issues are an issue, I would not object to accommodate long-termers like me, who are not married, limited to living in certain 'touristy' zones.

Edited November 15, 2016 by JackThompson

[sanemax]

33 minutes ago, jpinx said:

So many times people lose their case because of their attitude.......

 

  She was just being honest . 

[rott]

Unfortunately she just did not know what she was talking about. She was asking for something that does not exist.

[andrewlochhead]

Hi,

I have a chum leaving Thailand who wants to sell a first generation Elite Card with the original privileges at a good price compared to the current offers. Please send me your email to <<<<Email removed, please PM function to contact>>>> and I will put you guys in touch. Tks

Andrew

Edited November 16, 2016 by metisdead
18) You will not post phone numbers, email addresses, business names, or web/Facebook/Twitter/Google+ addresses in posts or signatures.

[ldiablo72]

Well if Thailand were similar to the US and UK they would allow millions of illegal immigrants to live and work in their country. At least in the US and UK immigrants can pretty much get any job they wish and don't have these stupid jobs reserved only for Thais which makes it extremely difficult for some people to stay in Thailand long term.

[Retiredandhappyhere]

Even small changes by Immigration can be a bit annoying for expats.  As an example, for the past four years I have been able to do my 90 day report in Hua Hin about 5 km from where I live, but now I have to do a 100km  round trip to the office in Phetchaburi.   As the information is entered into a central computer, why does it matter whether I report to the more convenient Hua Hin office or to the one further afield? 

 

This change merely illustrates that Immigration have no respect or sympathy for retirees, even oldies like myself at 75 years of age. The on-line system introduced in February last year has never worked for me and, as yet, I am unsure of the reliability of sending in a report by registered letter, particularly as the requirement for the additional Personal Information form by the Phetchaburi office is uncertain.  I believe in complying fully with the law but also in not supplying more information (like bank account numbers) than is absolutely required.  

[Suradit69]

6 hours ago, jgold said:

It is just not possible to live in Thailand anymore on tourist visas. Doing many visa extensions raises a flag w immigration. I rather do a visa run than an extension. I ran out of luck after 4.5 yrs. I had an ed visa w a re-entry permit and only got let in after I paid off the supervisor at suvarnabumi. I am now taking a 6 month break and will only live there again on a elite visa.

It is just humiliating being taken aside at the airport immigration. This 3rd world country all of a sudden thinks of itself being the likes of US or UK.

Have a back up plan!! In Vietnam americans get a 1yr multiple entry for under 150 bucks. Not as good as Thailand but if you want to stay in the area it is a good option. Good luck!

 

One last advice is to stay away from the poipet border!! there are many posts here and everyone says it is to be avoided. Go to the borders w Laos.

 

"It is just humiliating being taken aside at the airport immigration. "

For many farang a perceived loss of face can be devastating, sometimes causing faces to turn red, perspiration to ramp up and sputtering to reach dangerous levels.

 

This 3rd world country all of a sudden thinks of itself being the likes of US or UK. "

Or some farang think of themselves as somehow a privileged class ... the modern day economic refugees masquerading as pukka sahibs. 

 

I've often thought that many Thais have a built in radar that picks up on super-pompous farang and thengive them a figurative poke or two to watch them go apoplectic.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Suradit69

[siam2007]

3 hours ago, impulse said:

 

You seem to have shot your own case by claiming they'd be supporting 5 Thais when $250 a month would add 25% to such a person's budget.

 

Thailand can either stay in the rut of low budget mass hedonism and sex tourism, or they can do something (anything, please) to get out of that slimepit.  Working off mass numbers of low budget tourists is absolutely devastating the resource.  They'd be better off having 1/3 the numbers, and offering less crowded beaches that aren't running sewers.  At least they'd have something worth visiting in 20 years.  As it's headed, they're eating their metaphorical children.

 

Certainly, clamping down will hurt some good people.  All sea changes do.  But it may work out well in the long term for the Thais.  I hope so.  I'm not optimistic, but I'm glad to see them trying something to preserve what they have.

 

 

they will not have 1/3 the number, they will have 3x the numbers as they want even more Chinese to visit. Keep in mind that until now, only a tiny fraction of Chinese nationals hold a passport. Good luck if those package crowds are considered "quality tourists"

[zorro1]

 
howdy- did you need to do the elite extension yourself?  are you outside of bkk or pattaya?  i'm about to switch from marriage to elite because i'm hoping to never need to set foot in jomtien again.  
 
 

What's wrong with jomtien? It's a walk in the park compared to Bangkok and Chang mai immigration

[elabuelo]

5 hours ago, impulse said:

Thailand can either stay in the rut of low budget mass hedonism and sex tourism, or they can do something (anything, please) to get out of that slimepit.  Working off mass numbers of low budget tourists is absolutely devastating the resource.  They'd be better off having 1/3 the numbers, and offering less crowded beaches that aren't running sewers.  At least they'd have something worth visiting in 20 years.  As it's headed, they're eating their metaphorical children.

You've got to be kidding.  Have you been lately to any of the "pristine" beaches, national park islands, etc that feature so prominently in Thai tourist marketing?  Completely overrun with package tourists from China.  The "resource" is being devastated for sure, but this has nothing to do with long stay folks on tourist visas.

[impulse]

5 hours ago, elabuelo said:

You've got to be kidding.  Have you been lately to any of the "pristine" beaches, national park islands, etc that feature so prominently in Thai tourist marketing?  Completely overrun with package tourists from China.  The "resource" is being devastated for sure, but this has nothing to do with long stay folks on tourist visas.

 

If they don't start clamping down on the long stayers, how long do you figure before the Chinese start becoming "long stay" by the millions?  They're leaving China in droves to get away from the pollution and the totalitarianism.  The ones with $$$ are getting visas and going to the west, thousands of miles away.  The poor ones will probably try to settle where they can get away with it.  SEA, for example.

 

We think they're picking on us.  Maybe they're actually trying to stop a stampede we're not even considering.

Edited November 15, 2016 by impulse

[hml367]

12 hours ago, jpinx said:

So many times people lose their case because of their attitude.......

 

And most of the ones with an attitude don't even know their attitude is hurting them, or won't admit they have an attitude.

[Suradit69]

16 hours ago, possum1931 said:

No, I think it is just that when some boss takes over, he starts making up his own rules, if you have read posts in Thaivisa much, you will know that all the IOs make up there own rules, the same with banks, amphurs, schools etc. This is Thailand.

 

Not to mention all the farang who invent their own rules. If you have read posts in Thai Visa much, you would know that an amazing number of farang who are long-stayers still can't figure out the difference between a visa and an extension and have no idea what the basis of their stay in Thailand is.  And that's not even counting all those who still manage to over-stay by a few days, a few months, a few years and then attempt to justify it or those who always jump to their defense. 

 

Several times a week someone starts a thread about "new" immigration rules  and then describes something that has always been true or something they can't even explain coherently, but that they've decided is unfair and therefore not real.

 

Too many farang are gaming the system. Now a lot of the loopholes and cases of lax enforcement are being closed.  Too many farang have been contributing next to nothing to the economy. 

 

It's very much like all the people crossing the Mediterranean to southern Europe or traveling by sea to Australia or crossing the border from Mexico to the US.  Being a farang with a pale complexion doesn't make someone more desirable if he's breaking the laws and not contributing to the economy here or staying here illegally.

[Suradit69]

13 hours ago, sanemax said:

 

  She was just being honest . 

 

No she was throwing a temper tantrum like many spoiled children do when she could not get what she wanted. That's nothing to do with honesty. 

[Suradit69]

17 hours ago, PocoLoco said:

Thailand needs to come up with a solution for a very large percentage of longstayers or it's going to seriously miss a lot of income. I believe the amount of money these guys spend in total and networks they support is hugely understimated. I know of several guys in BKK who don't work in Thailand but plash cash like crazy and stay on tourist visa's, not everyone wants to buy an elite visa. Some are planning to move to another country because never being sure about what's going to happen next.

 

Under 50, not married, not working? You're screwed.
And still, if you meet one of these requirements you still have to report every 3 months (?) and expect immigration police to pop up any time for questioning.
They can't do without us, but at the same time foreigners are treated like criminals. Thailand make up your mind.
 

I'm wondering how elita visa holders are treated at immigration. What if an elite visa holder travels international every two months or so and spends around 200 days in Thailand. Do they get grilled as well? Or are they immune to immigration questioning? Priviliges can be bought in Thailand....
 

"They can't do without us, but at the same time foreigners are treated like criminals. Thailand make up your mind."

 

Just about every country in the world makes money off tourism, but they all enforce laws that restrict who can enter their borders and the terms of their stay. There are a lot of farang here who Thailand could do without. If you don't comply with the laws, regardless of whether or not you like the laws, then you are a criminal. Make up your mind.

[NoshowJones]

18 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

 

Not to mention all the farang who invent their own rules. If you have read posts in Thai Visa much, you would know that an amazing number of farang who are long-stayers still can't figure out the difference between a visa and an extension and have no idea what the basis of their stay in Thailand is.  And that's not even counting all those who still manage to over-stay by a few days, a few months, a few years and then attempt to justify it or those who always jump to their defense. 

 

Several times a week someone starts a thread about "new" immigration rules  and then describes something that has always been true or something they can't even explain coherently, but that they've decided is unfair and therefore not real.

 

Too many farang are gaming the system. Now a lot of the loopholes and cases of lax enforcement are being closed.  Too many farang have been contributing next to nothing to the economy. 

 

It's very much like all the people crossing the Mediterranean to southern Europe or traveling by sea to Australia or crossing the border from Mexico to the US.  Being a farang with a pale complexion doesn't make someone more desirable if he's breaking the laws and not contributing to the economy here or staying here illegally.

Very good post and very true, if the authorities would come down heavy on the people you mention, then there should not be all the loopholes for the vast majority of decent expats to go through.

Thailand just cannot see that if they would do more to encourage the under fifties who want to stay here long term, and do not want to get married. It would do more for their economy. My views on the Elite visa should be well known by now.

The people who come to Thailand must respect the country and their laws when they come here, whether it's for tourism, or to stay, but the big problem is, Thailand does not show enough respect for these people, it is a two way street, they have unfair and outdated laws that can be much fairer to all the decent folk who come and make a life here for themselves.

[roiethome]

17 hours ago, seancbk said:

 

Saying "it is just not possible to live in Thailand anymore on tourist visas"  is nonsense.    
 

 

Maybe it is too simplistic, but living in Thailand and tourist visa are non comparable.

A tourist visa implies that one is here on vacation.

Living in Thailand implies staying in Thailand long term.

A vacation is short term period.

If you are wealthy then the Elite visa is designed for those who can afford it without working to stay in Thailand.

The real issue is that many people who have back to back tourist visas are usually those working under the radar in Thailand, often using the internet as a business, and this is not legal.

 

[seedy]

Abusive and Threatening posts removed. Holiday issued.

[pjthefey]

5 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

 

 

Several times a week someone starts a thread about "new" immigration rules  and then describes something that has always been true or something they can't even explain coherently, but that they've decided is unfair and therefore not real.

 

 

All I asked was whether or not there was a system wide tightening up of immigration.  I acknowledged existing policies, and pointed out several threads starting the same day with odd comments made by people in their experiences at immigration.   I even said that it was an unofficial warning and noted that it has never occurred before.  Where did I complain about something being unfair and therefore not real?

[hawker9000]

On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 0:41 AM, jgold said:

It is just not possible to live in Thailand anymore on tourist visas. Doing many visa extensions raises a flag w immigration. I rather do a visa run than an extension. I ran out of luck after 4.5 yrs. I had an ed visa w a re-entry permit and only got let in after I paid off the supervisor at suvarnabumi. I am now taking a 6 month break and will only live there again on a elite visa.

It is just humiliating being taken aside at the airport immigration. This 3rd world country all of a sudden thinks of itself being the likes of US or UK.

Have a back up plan!! In Vietnam americans get a 1yr multiple entry for under 150 bucks. Not as good as Thailand but if you want to stay in the area it is a good option. Good luck!

 

One last advice is to stay away from the poipet border!! there are many posts here and everyone says it is to be avoided. Go to the borders w Laos.

Every time I point this out (that tourist visas are becoming more & more problematic for foreigners intending to live on them in Thailand), I take abuse for it.  (And what a defensive hornets' nest your "3rd world" comment is going to stir up, BTW.)  Those who've been getting by on TVs this way just don't want to hear it (on a long list of things they don't want to hear, actually), and prospective expats would rather listen to what they DO want to hear.  Those who're going to stick with doing this despite the obvious headwinds better have a Plan B.

 

[seancbk]

3 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

Every time I point this out (that tourist visas are becoming more & more problematic for foreigners intending to live on them in Thailand), I take abuse for it.  (And what a defensive hornets' nest your "3rd world" comment is going to stir up, BTW.)  Those who've been getting by on TVs this way just don't want to hear it (on a long list of things they don't want to hear, actually), and prospective expats would rather listen to what they DO want to hear.  Those who're going to stick with doing this despite the obvious headwinds better have a Plan B.

 

 

Unless you personally have been denied entry after multiple tourist visas, or been denied a tourist visa, then you are just spreading misinformation.

 

 

[rogeroc]

But living in Thailand on tourist visas will mean going out of the country a least 4 times per year and must cost close to Baht 30000 each year taking into account all the travel. It is not a great option.

[Asiantravel]

19 minutes ago, rogeroc said:

But living in Thailand on tourist visas will mean going out of the country a least 4 times per year and must cost close to Baht 30000 each year taking into account all the travel. It is not a great option.

 

you make it sound like it's purgatory. before I got a retirement Visa I had an Apec travel card (which for all intents and purposes was like a three-year Visa )and I had to leave the country every 90 days.

I was entitled to just turn around and come straight back into Thailand but I always spent at least a week before coming back.

It's actually quite a lot of fun visiting the adjoining countries every three months.