Immigration Tightening Up?

[rogeroc]

Not purgatory but the trips out are not for holiday purposes and you will end up in a queue spending time at the embassies, not on the beach,  if you spend a week in each place then double the yearly costs.  What about the 4 trips to Immigration per year for extensions. You make it sound like a 'doddle' when it is a 'pain in the arse'.

 

But i take your point it does make sense to try and use the enforced trips out to your advantage.

 

 

[JackThompson]

On 11/16/2016 at 10:56 AM, roiethome said:

 

Maybe it is too simplistic, but living in Thailand and tourist visa are non comparable.

A tourist visa implies that one is here on vacation.

Living in Thailand implies staying in Thailand long term.

A vacation is short term period.

If you are wealthy then the Elite visa is designed for those who can afford it without working to stay in Thailand.

The real issue is that many people who have back to back tourist visas are usually those working under the radar in Thailand, often using the internet as a business, and this is not legal.

 

But the Elite is a Tourist Visa, and they stay here long term, but you and others claim one cannot "be a tourist" long-term (to spite many like me doing so), Elite members are not staying short-term, so they are not Tourists, so they are ineligible for a Tourist visa, using this logic - no?  

 

The Elite is priced way out of the market, relative to the living costs in Thailand, which is one of the main attractions to stay here in the first place.  One could argue that the extra cost means someone would be more likely to work illegally to afford it.

 

I do not think most using back-to-back TVs from Western countries are "usually working" here.  Why would I, for example, want to work here for a fraction of my current offshore income?  If you mean people from poorer countries, like the Philippines, maybe so.  But easy to remedy that as they do with India, etc - having a different method of application / criteria.   Or simply go to the schools where these people are known to be working illegally, and catch them.  Seems they do not want to catch them.

 

1 hour ago, rogeroc said:

But living in Thailand on tourist visas will mean going out of the country a least 4 times per year and must cost close to Baht 30000 each year taking into account all the travel. It is not a great option.

 

It does tend to prove you can afford to be here, which is likely why it is currently tolerated.  My costs are about 25K Baht/yr to do this, not counting any extra time I spend on my trips.  That's a slightly-high but not completely unreasonable price to pay for staying in a nicer low-cost country.

[Ronuk]

59 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

But the Elite is a Tourist Visa, and they stay here long term, but you and others claim one cannot "be a tourist" long-term (to spite many like me doing so), Elite members are not staying short-term, so they are not Tourists, so they are ineligible for a Tourist visa, using this logic - no?  

 

The Elite is priced way out of the market, relative to the living costs in Thailand, which is one of the main attractions to stay here in the first place.  One could argue that the extra cost means someone would be more likely to work illegally to afford it.

 

I do not think most using back-to-back TVs from Western countries are "usually working" here.  Why would I, for example, want to work here for a fraction of my current offshore income?  If you mean people from poorer countries, like the Philippines, maybe so.  But easy to remedy that as they do with India, etc - having a different method of application / criteria.   Or simply go to the schools where these people are known to be working illegally, and catch them.  Seems they do not want to catch them.

 

 

It does tend to prove you can afford to be here, which is likely why it is currently tolerated.  My costs are about 25K Baht/yr to do this, not counting any extra time I spend on my trips.  That's a slightly-high but not completely unreasonable price to pay for staying in a nicer low-cost country.

The Elite visa is not a Tourist visa. It's a Privaliged Entry visa. There is absolutely nothing on the visa, paperwork or anything to do with Tourism. You can leave everyday and come straight back in with no need for reentry permits and get a full 12 months stamp in your passport each and everytime. It's a great way to LIVE here FULL TIME LEGALLY  with no immigration issues. Just do a 90 day report or a run over the border and straight back in or get the people at TE to do the report for you and your good to go.And NOT SCAM the use of Tourist visas, swapping and changing passports etc.

Very shortly, I expect you and many others to experience it or move out of the country. Imo, the MISUSE of tourist visas is going to come to an end. Rather than at each and every opportunity knock the programme for cost or another reason, you would be better to make a plan on how your likely to be effected in the near future. All in my opinion of course.

[seancbk]

2 hours ago, rogeroc said:

Not purgatory but the trips out are not for holiday purposes and you will end up in a queue spending time at the embassies, not on the beach,  if you spend a week in each place then double the yearly costs.  What about the 4 trips to Immigration per year for extensions. You make it sound like a 'doddle' when it is a 'pain in the arse'.

 

But i take your point it does make sense to try and use the enforced trips out to your advantage.

 

 

With an Apec Card you don't need to go to an Embassy to 'get a visa'   You just show it at Immigration with your passport and the apec card they stamp you in for 90 days.

If you have one (and they are not hard to get)  then you can just fly to Singapore, have lunch with a friend, do a bit of shopping then hope on a plane back to Bangkok.

I'd hardly call that 'a pain in the arse'  

When I was on the one year multi entry visas I used to do day trips to HK, Singapore or Macau every month sometimes.   In 2 years I never once went to Immigration in Bangkok for an extension or do a 90 day report because I was going through airport immigration so often.

 

Not that going for an extension is a pain in the arse.  



Details of the Apec card are below for anyone interested.

The ABTC allows business travelers pre-cleared, facilitated short-term entry to participating member economies. The ABTC removes the need to individually applyfor visas or entry permits, saving valuable time, and allows multiple entries into participating economies during the three years the card is valid.

 

http://www.apec.org/about-us/about-apec/business-resources/apec-business-travel-card.aspx

 

[JackThompson]

1 minute ago, Ronuk said:

The Elite visa is not a Tourist visa. It's a Privaliged Entry visa. There is absolutely nothing on the visa, paperwork or anything to do with Tourism. You can leave everyday and come straight back in with no need for reentry permits and get a full 12 months stamp in your passport each and everytime. It's a great way to LIVE here FULL TIME LEGALLY  with no immigration issues. Just do a 90 day report or a run over the border and straight back in or get the people at TE to do the report for you and your good to go.And NOT SCAM the use of Tourist visas, swapping and changing passports etc.

Very shortly, I expect you and many others to experience it or move out of the country. Imo, the MISUSE of tourist visas is going to come to an end. Rather than at each and every opportunity knock the programme for cost or another reason, you would be better to make a plan on how your likely to be effected in the near future. All in my opinion of course.

 

If the Thai authorities considered the use of Tourist Visas as I use them "misuse" - they would simply write a regulation to limit its use.  They have chosen not to do this. 

 

I will not be giving away a year of my life - the cost of living for a year - to pay for a temporary visa that, when it expires, leaves me in the same boat I was in before.

 

If there is a "scam", it is the Elite Visa system.  Completely out-of-whack with the cost of living in Thailand.  Wonder where the money goes?  I am sure whoever is on the take for that scam is working hard to make the people of Thailand poorer, by excluding people like me, so they can line their pockets. 

[Ronuk]

4 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

If the Thai authorities considered the use of Tourist Visas as I use them "misuse" - they would simply write a regulation to limit its use.  They have chosen not to do this. 

 

I will not be giving away a year of my life - the cost of living for a year - to pay for a temporary visa that, when it expires, leaves me in the same boat I was in before.

 

If there is a "scam", it is the Elite Visa system.  Completely out-of-whack with the cost of living in Thailand.  Wonder where the money goes?  I am sure whoever is on the take for that scam is working hard to make the people of Thailand poorer, by excluding people like me, so they can line their pockets. 

So it's not a Tourist visa after all, it's a scam? Are you for real?

If you haven't got an inkling of what is happening regarding the misuse of tourist visas,  then you have blinkers on.

And I would be careful with the scam accusations regarding Thailand Elite.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Ronuk

[seancbk]

1 minute ago, JackThompson said:

 

If the Thai authorities considered the use of Tourist Visas as I use them "misuse" - they would simply write a regulation to limit its use.  They have chosen not to do this. 

 

Funnily enough they did exactly the reverse of that in 2008.

 

Prior to 2008 the Immigration ordinance specified that an alien could remain in Thailand for a maximum of 6 month in 12 whilst using tourist visas. 

Then in Nov 2008 they changed the wording and removed the restriction so that you can stay as long as you have valid visas. 


Also interesting to note is that :-

 

The Thai Department of Employment issued an announcement on March 6, 2015, declaring the types of work-related activities that are not classified as “work” under Thailand’s Alien Working Act B.E. 2551 (2008). With immediate effect, various activities, including attending a meeting or seminar, attending an exhibition or trade fair, attending a lecture, etc. will not require application for a work permit. This should help to ease some of the administrative burdens on companies and makes it simpler and more convenient for business travelers to enter Thailand for certain work-related purposes.

With immediate effect, the following activities will not require application for a work permit:

 

• Attending a meeting, conference, or seminar;
• Attending an exhibition or trade fair;
• Taking part in a business meeting or business negotiations;
• Attending a special lecture or academic lecture;
• Attending lectures as part of training or technical training;
• Purchasing goods at a trade fair;
• Attending a Board of Directors meeting at one’s own company.

 

 

[Asiantravel]

13 minutes ago, Ronuk said:

So it's not a Tourist visa after all, it's a scam? Are you for real?

If you haven't got an inkling of what is happening regarding the misuse of tourist visas,  then you have blinkers on.

And I would be careful with the scam accusations regarding Thailand Elite.

 

well it doesn't seem like good value to me when you consider I was only paying $156 Australian for a three-year Visa (1500 baht PER YEAR ! )

incidentally as you seem to be a staunch supporter did any foreigners lose money when Thailand elite went broke the first time?

 

[Ronuk]

58 minutes ago, Asiantravel said:

 

well it doesn't seem like good value to me when you consider I was only paying $156 Australian for a three-year Visa (1500 baht PER YEAR ! )

incidentally as you seem to be a staunch supporter did any foreigners lose money when Thailand elite went broke the first time?

Nobody lost anything. They just stopped issuing anymore at the time.

This time the programme appears to be expanding more into the Asian country's. I did notice when I flew in Monday evening that TE have opened a second reception lounge in Suvarnabhumi airport. In that case they must be getting quite a few people through there. They expand into Don Muang sometime in 2017.

[JackThompson]

43 minutes ago, Ronuk said:

So it's not a Tourist visa after all, it's a scam? Are you for real?

If you haven't got an inkling of what is happening regarding the misuse of tourist visas,  then you have blinkers on.

And I would be careful with the scam accusations regarding Thailand Elite.

 

Anyone who violates the terms of their visa by, for example, stealing a Thai job, should be prosecuted to the fullest.  No one can demonstrate any harm from those living here long-term on Tourist Visas and following the law.

 

As to the Elite, considering what a 1-year visa costs in Vietnam or Cambodia, how about, "total rip off" - is that better?  It is not priced for the market, and this often indicates something not on the "up and up" is going on.  Unless I am mistaken, the money is not going to a charity - and I would like to find out I am wrong, so that some good could be coming out of it. 

 

But what I seem to hear, is people trying to push thousands of good people out of Thailand who use Tourist Visas - people who benefit the Thai economy and Thai people - so that a tiny few of those can be squeezed into funding the Elite program.

 

[rogeroc]

1 hour ago, seancbk said:

With an Apec Card you don't need to go to an Embassy to 'get a visa'   You just show it at Immigration with your passport and the apec card they stamp you in for 90 days.

If you have one (and they are not hard to get)  then you can just fly to Singapore, have lunch with a friend, do a bit of shopping then hope on a plane back to Bangkok.

I'd hardly call that 'a pain in the arse'  

When I was on the one year multi entry visas I used to do day trips to HK, Singapore or Macau every month sometimes.   In 2 years I never once went to Immigration in Bangkok for an extension or do a 90 day report because I was going through airport immigration so often.

 

Not that going for an extension is a pain in the arse.  
 

 

i was talking about tourist visa not Apec card (never even heard of that). Fine to disagree with me but better if you have read what i said first. As for your last sentence try telling people in Chiang Mai that!

[seancbk]

26 minutes ago, rogeroc said:

 

i was talking about tourist visa not Apec card (never even heard of that). Fine to disagree with me but better if you have read what i said first. As for your last sentence try telling people in Chiang Mai that!

Fair enough except the person you replied to before I replied was talking about using an APEC card.   

And as for people in Chiang Mai, well my statement that it isn't a pain in the arse just goes to demonstrate that there are no absolutes when making statements on this forum, yet most people make them (I do try not to).  

What one person finds easy another may not.  

If you are under 50 then definitely look into the APEC card.