Israel backs draft bill to legalise settlements

[webfact]

Israel backs draft bill to legalise settlements

 

 

JERUSALEM: -- Israel’s parliament has approved a draft bill to legalise thousands of Jewish settlements on privately-owned Palestinian land in the West Bank.

 

Washington has described the move as troubling, saying it could pave the way for dozens of outposts without Israeli government authorisation.

 

The vote in the Knesset passed by 57 to 52 votes.

 

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is said to have initially tried to stall the measure pushed by right-wing members of his government, fearing an international backlash and legal implications.

 

On Sunday, Israeli settlers demonstrated for MPs to approve the bill and for the evacuation of the disputed outpost of Amona to be halted.

 

The measure must now pass through three readings in parliament and also be ratified by the Supreme Court before it can become law.

 

If approved, critics, say the measure will apply to thousands of settlements currently considered illegal and also permit, what they call the ‘‘theft’‘, of any Palestinian owned land.

 

 

-- © Copyright Euronews 2016-11-17

 

[Ulysses G.]

The Palestinians have refused to make peace for 7 decades. I do not blame Israelis for being tired of it and punishing them with settlements.

 

Time for Hamas to stop the terrorism and join with Fatah to form a peaceful nation of their own, while there is still land available.

[Boon Mee]

34 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

The Palestinians have refused to make peace for 7 decades. I do not blame Israelis for being tired of it and punishing them with settlements.

 

Time for Hamas to stop the terrorism and join with Fatah to form a peaceful nation of their own, while there is still land available.

Exactly!

With our new man in the White House firmly behind Bibi's actions, perhaps the Pali problems will finally subside! 

Edited November 16, 2016 by Boon Mee

[Ulysses G.]

Trump had promised to recognize Jeruselem as the eternal capital of Israel. That is a VERY big deal!

[Boon Mee]

Just now, Ulysses G. said:

Trump had promised to recognize Jeruselem as the eternal capital of Israel. That is a VERY big deal!

As Alice Cooper said:  "No more Mr. Nice Guy" and it will be the correct modus operandi for the United States and Israel to take going forward. 

[johna]

Legalizing theft, Little Israel (state department ) with their mentors AIPAC must be over the moon.

[coma]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

The vote in the Knesset passed by 57 to 52 votes.

 

Bit closer than I thought. But not close enough. And they wonder why they are "living in constant fear". These sort of decisions by the Israeli war machine leave only one avenue for the Palestinians to take. And that is to continue their armed struggle. I for one certainly don't blame them. And for the like of the US to support such decisions is why things like 9/11 happen. Some people just don't get it at all. Stupid !!!

[pumpuy]

Legalizing theft of land shows clearly that there is  no , not even the slightest effort to make peace .

Only surprise is that 52 from 109 voted against this ... may be some hope left ?

Guess not ...

[JuanCarlos]

4 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

The Palestinians have refused to make peace for 7 decades. I do not blame Israelis for being tired of it and punishing them with settlements.

 

Time for Hamas to stop the terrorism and join with Fatah to form a peaceful nation of their own, while there is still land available.

Yeah you see the problem is in west bank it is quite quiet, and those settlements are on private land. I am quite sure if I start to live in your house and make it legal you would start coming at me ...

And do not rejoice so much : it still has to go through three other votes and will probably face a legal action before this happen.

And also those settlements, if agreed, will just infuriate not only the palestinian (and probably bring more violence, a thing israel WANTS to legitimate its land stealing) but also the international community, so Israel will just being see as an evern worse far right country and isolate them more, as well as Trump government.

Anyway Israel is just diggins its own grave, as we all know the far right government wants only one state...but in a few decades there will be more muslims than jews, dooming Israel to either a South African situation, or just fall to a muslim government...

 

 

[Ulysses G.]

33 minutes ago, JuanCarlos said:

And do not rejoice so much : it still has to go through three other votes and will probably face a legal action before this happen.

 

 

You need to look up the meaning of "rejoice". It is very different from not blaming Israel for having had enough with Palestinian obstinance. The Palestinians started the violence originally. They refused the UN offerer of their own country and attacked Israel for accepting. They declared war on Israel repeatedly - LOST - and then turned to terrorism. They have brought most of their problems on themselves.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Ulysses G.

[RuamRudy]

I hope that one day the moderates will take power in Israel and transform their government and country into a modern and responsible world-class administration rather than the oppressive state that they continue to be.

 

Until that time, more power to the people who are showing them up for what they are, and orchestrating boycotts against Israeli interests, not something that anything wants, but when the country won't adhere to international law, they need to face the consequences. Boycotts, divestment & sanctions - force them into responsibility. 

[JuanCarlos]

54 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

You need to look up the meaning of "rejoice". It is very different from not blaming Israel for having had enough with Palestinian obstinance. The Palestinians started the violence originally. They refused the UN offerer of their own country and attacked Israel for accepting. They declared war on Israel repeatedly - LOST - and then turned to terrorism. They have brought most of their problems on themselves.

Let's agree to disagree...the ones stealing the lands and the ones refusing an international mediation is this so called "democracy".

Edited November 17, 2016 by JuanCarlos

[yardrunner]

57 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

You need to look up the meaning of "rejoice". It is very different from not blaming Israel for having had enough with Palestinian obstinance. The Palestinians started the violence originally. They refused the UN offerer of their own country and attacked Israel for accepting. They declared war on Israel repeatedly - LOST - and then turned to terrorism. They have brought most of their problems on themselves.

Similar to the arguments that the third reich used in the early thirties and look what that led to

[JKfarang]

The State of Israel has oppressed the Palestinians for decades.  If they truly believe that they are God's chosen people then He/She/It is obviously not a benevolent God.  If not for the US govt's unconditional financial, military and UN support of Israel (which I have always opposed), the State of Israel would have ceased to exist as a nation long ago.  End the support of Israel now!  They have treated the Palestinian people like dogs and deserve to be bitten at every opportunity.

[Ulysses G.]

48 minutes ago, JKfarang said:

The State of Israel has oppressed the Palestinians for decades.  If they truly believe that they are God's chosen people then He/She/It is obviously not a benevolent God.  If not for the US govt's unconditional financial, military and UN support of Israel (which I have always opposed), the State of Israel would have ceased to exist as a nation long ago.  End the support of Israel now!  They have treated the Palestinian people like dogs and deserve to be bitten at every opportunity.

 

All disinformation. The Palestimians started the conflict and have refused to end it. If they are "repressed", it is their own responsibility.

As to the US support for Israel, that did not happen until they were able to win numerous wars with little help from America. It did not start in earnest until after the Six day war, which they won decisively. Israel can easily stand on their own now and they are not going anywhere.

[Ulysses G.]

1 hour ago, yardrunner said:

Similar to the arguments that the third reich used in the early thirties and look what that led to

 

Not similar in any way. What are you talking about?

[yardrunner]

17 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

Not similar in any way. What are you talking about?

after the first world war the German army said that they had not been defeated but that they had been betrayed by the civilians at home and especially by the business community and after the war the Wiemar  republic ruled Germany until the effect of the great depression ruined the German economy allowing Adolf Hitler to take control of Germany.  He Made The Jews the scapegoats for Germany's ills and stole Jewish property and companies with the full support of the German government, now can you see the similarities

[yardrunner]

38 minutes ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

All disinformation. The Palestimians started the conflict and have refused to end it. If they are "repressed", it is their own responsibility.

As to the US support for Israel, that did not happen until they were able to win numerous wars with little help from America. It did not start in earnest until after the Six day war, which they won decisively. Israel can easily stand on their own now and they are not going anywhere.

i see you like to blame the victim for the crime

[Baerboxer]

48 minutes ago, yardrunner said:

after the first world war the German army said that they had not been defeated but that they had been betrayed by the civilians at home and especially by the business community and after the war the Wiemar  republic ruled Germany until the effect of the great depression ruined the German economy allowing Adolf Hitler to take control of Germany.  He Made The Jews the scapegoats for Germany's ills and stole Jewish property and companies with the full support of the German government, now can you see the similarities

 

Many modern historians now dismiss the "myth" that the German army wasn't defeated. It was more acceptable to the ruling military class and elites in Germany to believe that. But the German army was on the brink of collapse, whilst the navy was terrified to leave port in any numbers and the air force had lost all air superiority. 

 

The history of the Palestinian people, the Jewish people and the geographical area we now refer to as Israel and Palestine is nothing like the history of Germany and Europe. Your attempt to use the Nazis as an analogy for modern day Israelis is ludicrous, and simply doesn't make sense. 

 

You should try researching the real history of that area. And don't limit yourself to the 20th Century.

[Morch]

8 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

The Palestinians have refused to make peace for 7 decades. I do not blame Israelis for being tired of it and punishing them with settlements.

 

Time for Hamas to stop the terrorism and join with Fatah to form a peaceful nation of their own, while there is still land available.

 

The law proposal got nothing to do with Hamas, and little to do with the Fatah. The only reason this is pushed now is due to the impeding dismantling of the illegal settlement Amona (which was discussed on a few previous topics). This has evolved into a sort of popularity competition among right wing politicians. Considerations of long term policy, effect on the security situation and the prospects for the resolution of the conflict are not paramount.

[Morch]

7 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

Exactly!

With our new man in the White House firmly behind Bibi's actions, perhaps the Pali problems will finally subside! 

 

7 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

Trump had promised to recognize Jeruselem as the eternal capital of Israel. That is a VERY big deal!

 

According to Israel's Minister of Defense, Lieberman, messages from Trump's inner circle actually urged Israel not to make waves at this point, not to complicate the situation further by building outside existing settlements etc. The proposed new legislation is in opposition to this point of view.

 

Lieberman: Trump's team asks Israel to only build within settlement blocs

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4880028,00.html

 

Lieberman: Israel Should Reach Deal With Trump to See U.S. Recognize Settlement Blocs
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.753532

[Morch]

4 hours ago, pumpuy said:

Legalizing theft of land shows clearly that there is  no , not even the slightest effort to make peace .

Only surprise is that 52 from 109 voted against this ... may be some hope left ?

Guess not ...

 

The vote was actually a much closer affair, and could have gone otherwise. There are even those on Netanyahu's coalition and party opposing it. As it stands, one of the coalition parties agreed at the last minute to support the bill - but sort of conditional of it not being directly opposed to Supreme Court ruling. As states elsewhere on this topic, the parliamentary process just began, and this is was a preliminary vote.

[Morch]

4 hours ago, Ulysses G. said:

 

You need to look up the meaning of "rejoice". It is very different from not blaming Israel for having had enough with Palestinian obstinance. The Palestinians started the violence originally. They refused the UN offerer of their own country and attacked Israel for accepting. They declared war on Israel repeatedly - LOST - and then turned to terrorism. They have brought most of their problems on themselves.

 

There's enough obstinance to share all around, and then some. It cannot be said to be all Palestinian. Re-hashing history is all very fine, but got little to do with the reasons for the current legislation drive. The current legislation is exactly the opposite of attempting to solve the conflict.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

I hope that one day the moderates will take power in Israel and transform their government and country into a modern and responsible world-class administration rather than the oppressive state that they continue to be.

 

Until that time, more power to the people who are showing them up for what they are, and orchestrating boycotts against Israeli interests, not something that anything wants, but when the country won't adhere to international law, they need to face the consequences. Boycotts, divestment & sanctions - force them into responsibility. 

 

People in Israel do not "take power", but win it through elections. For "the moderates" to to achieve this goal, there needs to be more than threats and condemnations. Supporting the nonsense above is pretty much assuring public opinion in Israel will lean to the right.

[RuamRudy]

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

People in Israel do not "take power", but win it through elections. For "the moderates" to to achieve this goal, there needs to be more than threats and condemnations. Supporting the nonsense above is pretty much assuring public opinion in Israel will lean to the right.

 

Sorry, but I disagree. How long should the world have to wait for a moderate government to emerge? Israelis themselves are responsible for giving power to a series of reprehensible governments over many years; the more they lean to the right, the more that the rest of the world needs to take positive action to hurt them in their pockets. It has been done or continues to be done to other rogue nations - unfortunately this one is not sanctioned by governments. 

[Morch]

35 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Sorry, but I disagree. How long should the world have to wait for a moderate government to emerge? Israelis themselves are responsible for giving power to a series of reprehensible governments over many years; the more they lean to the right, the more that the rest of the world needs to take positive action to hurt them in their pockets. It has been done or continues to be done to other rogue nations - unfortunately this one is not sanctioned by governments. 

 

Israel is not a "rouge nation" not matter how much you'll try to spin it. Similarly, the dichotomy suggested  between "the world" and "governments" is inaccurate, at best. If you were actually holding on to  the latter, you wouldn't be talking about Israel, or even the Israeli government, but about the Israeli public. Different standards for different purposes.

 

Your whole argument ignores, as standard practice, that this conflict involves more than one nation, and that both sides involved run deep divisions among themselves. I get it that a simplistic, pseudo-idealistic description of problem and solution appeals to many - there's just these trivial matters of facts and reality to address, if this conflict is ever to be resolved.

[RuamRudy]

7 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Israel is not a "rouge nation" not matter how much you'll try to spin it. Similarly, the dichotomy suggested  between "the world" and "governments" is inaccurate, at best. If you were actually holding on to  the latter, you wouldn't be talking about Israel, or even the Israeli government, but about the Israeli public. Different standards for different purposes.

 

Your whole argument ignores, as standard practice, that this conflict involves more than one nation, and that both sides involved run deep divisions among themselves. I get it that a simplistic, pseudo-idealistic description of problem and solution appeals to many - there's just these trivial matters of facts and reality to address, if this conflict is ever to be resolved.

 

I don't think that there is an internationally agreed definition of what exactly a rogue nation is, although the Wikipedia page on Rogue States suggests that better men than me consider that Israel is, in fact, a rogue state, no matter how you'll try to deny it.

 

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I don't think that there is an internationally agreed definition of what exactly a rogue nation is, although the Wikipedia page on Rogue States suggests that better men than me consider that Israel is, in fact, a rogue state, no matter how you'll try to deny it.

 

 

If it's not an agreed upon definition, than your use of it is suspect. Name dropping is nice, but picking those with radical views and insinuating they are authoritative, does get old. Pretty much the norm on these topics when posters cannot make coherent arguments independently.

[RuamRudy]

30 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

If it's not an agreed upon definition, than your use of it is suspect. Name dropping is nice, but picking those with radical views and insinuating they are authoritative, does get old. Pretty much the norm on these topics when posters cannot make coherent arguments independently.

 

We are talking about subjective issues here - your attempt to make your position definitive is a poor attempt to claim some authority. 

[Morch]

15 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

We are talking about subjective issues here - your attempt to make your position definitive is a poor attempt to claim some authority. 

 

Quick reminder: You are the one who made a definitive claim to begin with. Moving the goal posts and calling it "subjective" is a cop out. Again, nothing new here.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Morch